Very hard to take anything from the stats of pots won/lost over £3 Devon.
Best thing to do is look through the actual hands and ask yourself a few questions. When you were betting postflop can you realistically be called by worse hands? If so, did you bet enough to get good value? When you were calling bets postflop is it believable that you're being bet into with a worse hand or are they gonna have better than you more often? Were you calling down with draws withuot the correct odds? Were you calling down with draws when raising, might have been the better option? etc etc.
consistent theme in those hands was not being more aggro preflop. although between coolers and fish it wouldn't neccessarily have saved you money. (although it is easier to fold the river in 1 if you hadn't disguised the strength of your hand)
if this is because of the recent move up to nl10 making you a little more cautious, then i guess playing all nl10 might be suboptimal. if this is the case just play 1 alongside your other tables but be more aggro in it while you evaluate the regs and how play differs from the lower levels
Hand 1 - I'd 4bet pre, but if so, we're only 4betting to get it in. As played I bet more on the turn, and bet/fold the river.
Hand 2 - Why are we not 3betting with the 2nd best starting hand, especially OOP. Make it £1.20-£1.30 total. Once you've taken your chosen line, don't click back the turn. It's rarely gonna be good clicking it back imo, if it's for value raise more, if it's a bluff, it's often too small to work (and we don't wanna turn KK into a bluff here anyway)
Hand 3 - Again 2nd best starting hand, we should be 4betting. When we have AA/KK (especially at lower stakes) our goal is to just get as much money as possible in preflop (ideally all of it). Again don't click back the flop. I like the raise here on such a wet board when we're so likely to have the best hand AND we have Kd, AND someone with the Ad just isn't folding so make them pay as much as possible.
This seems to happen every time you move-up, whether it be DYMs, cash, whatever, despite the concencus on this forum being that you can beat those levels.
I'm starting to think your game is being affected by some sort of 'moving-up tilt', ie when the stakes are increased you drift away from your A-game. I have a copy of the excellent 'Mental Game of Poker' book here gathering dust. It might be useful to you, if you're interested let me know and I'll drop it round. Most players benefit a lot from a read, I certainly did.
Hands on last page 1 4b/c pre or fold river is close to a fold 2 3b pre either raise flop or c/c down 3&4 are fine, I might 4b pre in 3 Posted by grantorino
Very hard to take anything from the stats of pots won/lost over £3 Devon. Best thing to do is look through the actual hands and ask yourself a few questions. When you were betting postflop can you realistically be called by worse hands? If so, did you bet enough to get good value? When you were calling bets postflop is it believable that you're being bet into with a worse hand or are they gonna have better than you more often? Were you calling down with draws withuot the correct odds? Were you calling down with draws when raising, might have been the better option? etc etc. OR post some hands in the clinic. Posted by Lambert180
thanks Paul
i'll post some hands up. i know i played some badly so i'll post the worst ones
hi dev consistent theme in those hands was not being more aggro preflop. although between coolers and fish it wouldn't neccessarily have saved you money. (although it is easier to fold the river in 1 if you hadn't disguised the strength of your hand) if this is because of the recent move up to nl10 making you a little more cautious, then i guess playing all nl10 might be suboptimal. if this is the case just play 1 alongside your other tables but be more aggro in it while you evaluate the regs and how play differs from the lower levels Posted by GELDY
hi mate thanks for your thoughts. yeah i found the higher money a problem to begin with but i feel more than happy getting it in now,if i think i have a chance of winning obviously,so i don't think that's the problem. i'm clearly making mistakes and last night playing 6 tables for 9 hrs took it's toll,i think. come the last hour especially it felt like i was playing a computer game and i was like a zombie simply pressing buttons for fun,which isn't good.
i'll hopefully learn from it though and get back on track.i'm still more than happy with my progress in general and i'm not going to let last night put me off too much. it's all a learning curve and last nights lesson cost me £70. i'm sure almost every player can relate to what i've been through at some time or another. i always knew that playing cash would give me plenty of challenges along the way,and last night was just one of those.i'm also certain there will be more to follow and i don't expect this to be my last losing session either.
it's all about character when these things come along and how we deal with it.i've encountered similar problems when playing dym's last year.it took me a little time to crack it at the £3 level and i never made the breakthrough i'd hoped for at the £5 level which is i'd say is on a par with the problems i'm facing now. so just maybe i'm not going to crack this either but i'll try my best. if i don't then i don't,at least i'll have given it somewhere near my best. this isn't life or death for me it's just a hobby,and worst case scenario is i go back to playing £3 dym's again and accept whatever i can make from them. i could just as easily stop playing poker right now and take up painting or something,something i was reasonable at as a kid.
Not again Ian! This seems to happen every time you move-up, whether it be DYMs, cash, whatever, despite the concencus on this forum being that you can beat those levels. I'm starting to think your game is being affected by some sort of 'moving-up tilt', ie when the stakes are increased you drift away from your A-game. I have a copy of the excellent 'Mental Game of Poker' book here gathering dust. It might be useful to you, if you're interested let me know and I'll drop it round. Most players benefit a lot from a read, I certainly did. Posted by GaryQQQ
Hi Gary, tbh mate i really think it's simply a better standard of player that's beating me. yes the money involved is a factor for sure when you 1st move up but that gradually wears off after a while and once i'm into my game i try and play it exactly as if i was playing the lower level.(which in itself could be the problem,i don't know?maybe the higher levels need a different approach or more thinking is required?again i don't have the answers atm.) once i've paid my £5.50 dym money or loaded up £10 for cash that's it it's gone from my account and i'm trying to double it up,win,etc. if it was easy i'm guessing everyone playing would be able to win and make money,even though i know that's not possible,but i'm sure you know what i'm getting at. isn't it something like 10% that win the rest either breakeven or lose?
be nice mate if you could drop that book around mate,thanks very much.i'm sure as you say it will help,and god knows i need it atm. i'll e-mail you my address. cheers Gary and keep up the good work with your challenge,you're doing brilliant. dev
Seems a lot of people struggling with moving from 4 />10nl. Might be worth posting some of the losing hands on this thread, the decent 10nl and 20nl players could then tell you where you went wrong. I mean its all well and good rebuilding at 4nl, but if you dont know why you lost then it will just happen again. Good to have given it a shot though, unlike me the bankroll nit still at 4nl lol Posted by calcalfold
sorry mate missed your post,thought i'd replied earlier. yeah i'll post some up in a mo.don't know where to start though there are so many of them. lols i'm one of the biggest nits going mate as many will know,and playing nl10 with now only 25 buy-ins is a 1st for me. it won't effect my game though and i'll play exactly the same as if i had 100 buy-ins. if i lose another 10 it won't kill me and i can easily re-build going back to dym's. i,'ve set myself this challenge and am just as determined to see it through now as when i started on January 1st. if i fail i fail, but we're not there yet. best wishes mate. dev
going to go through my losing hands and see all the mistakes from y'day.should make grim reading. lol i'm going to have to do more work away from the table i think if i'm to make any headway. i've not done much until now if i'm being honest so today it all begins. as i've said it's only a hobby but i guess i'll have to go through this process as i'm sure many of you other players have. i usually 'play it by ear' and try and learn from my mistakes as i'm going along,but it's clearly slow progress atm,and something extra is need. i've still got a lot to learn and i guess you can only learn so much at a time. i'll continue playing nl10 and drop back to playing 2 tables. i've got to also play shorter sessions and find a way of doing so. by writing this down it should help me to do so...hopefully.
ok, that's it,yesterdays gone.i'll now move on. i'm not looking back there is only one way to go...forwards. i've no idea what happens next,but isn't that all part of the fun when playing this wonderful game.
Dev, identify the players that have it and fold sometimes identify the players that call down with worse a lot and then you need value bet a lot There are a lot more players at nl10 that have it than nl4. Get over the mindblock that nl10 is difficult because it's not, it's just not as easy as nl4. also they don't bluff, unless you know for sure they are a known bluffer ! Be the player that has it and bets/raises and does not call unless oppo is a bluffer simples ! Posted by rancid
thanks rancid. yeah all good points mate,thanks. just a bad night at the office i'm hoping.think we all have them occasionally. it's all so very different for me from dym's and i know i'm making silly mistakes here and there,which are costing me. i'm also struggling to find any sort of playing time routine and this is having a major effect atm,i feel. i'm playing way to long and added to that probably 2 or more tables to many,and it's simply a car crash waiting to happen,or just happened should i say.
it's a new day and i can't change what's happened, only what's going to happen from now on. i'll hopefully look back on yesterday as possibly one of the best days i could have had,which sounds strange right now,but it could just be the wake up call i needed.
Comments
Best thing to do is look through the actual hands and ask yourself a few questions. When you were betting postflop can you realistically be called by worse hands? If so, did you bet enough to get good value? When you were calling bets postflop is it believable that you're being bet into with a worse hand or are they gonna have better than you more often? Were you calling down with draws withuot the correct odds? Were you calling down with draws when raising, might have been the better option? etc etc.
OR post some hands in the clinic.
Hand 2 - Why are we not 3betting with the 2nd best starting hand, especially OOP. Make it £1.20-£1.30 total. Once you've taken your chosen line, don't click back the turn. It's rarely gonna be good clicking it back imo, if it's for value raise more, if it's a bluff, it's often too small to work (and we don't wanna turn KK into a bluff here anyway)
Hand 3 - Again 2nd best starting hand, we should be 4betting. When we have AA/KK (especially at lower stakes) our goal is to just get as much money as possible in preflop (ideally all of it). Again don't click back the flop. I like the raise here on such a wet board when we're so likely to have the best hand AND we have Kd, AND someone with the Ad just isn't folding so make them pay as much as possible.
Hand 4 - well played, ul.
This seems to happen every time you move-up, whether it be DYMs, cash, whatever, despite the concencus on this forum being that you can beat those levels.
I'm starting to think your game is being affected by some sort of 'moving-up tilt', ie when the stakes are increased you drift away from your A-game. I have a copy of the excellent 'Mental Game of Poker' book here gathering dust. It might be useful to you, if you're interested let me know and I'll drop it round. Most players benefit a lot from a read, I certainly did.
i'll post some hands up. i know i played some badly so i'll post the worst ones
thanks for your thoughts.
yeah i found the higher money a problem to begin with but i feel more than happy getting it in now,if i think i have a chance of winning obviously,so i don't think that's the problem.
i'm clearly making mistakes and last night playing 6 tables for 9 hrs took it's toll,i think.
come the last hour especially it felt like i was playing a computer game and i was like a zombie simply pressing buttons for fun,which isn't good.
i'll hopefully learn from it though and get back on track.i'm still more than happy with my progress in general and i'm not going to let last night put me off too much.
it's all a learning curve and last nights lesson cost me £70.
i'm sure almost every player can relate to what i've been through at some time or another.
i always knew that playing cash would give me plenty of challenges along the way,and last night was just one of those.i'm also certain there will be more to follow and i don't expect this to be my last losing session either.
it's all about character when these things come along and how we deal with it.i've encountered similar problems when playing dym's last year.it took me a little time to crack it at the £3 level and i never made the breakthrough i'd hoped for at the £5 level which is i'd say is on a par with the problems i'm facing now.
so just maybe i'm not going to crack this either but i'll try my best.
if i don't then i don't,at least i'll have given it somewhere near my best.
this isn't life or death for me it's just a hobby,and worst case scenario is i go back to playing £3 dym's again and accept whatever i can make from them.
i could just as easily stop playing poker right now and take up painting or something,something i was reasonable at as a kid.
tbh mate i really think it's simply a better standard of player that's beating me.
yes the money involved is a factor for sure when you 1st move up but that gradually wears off after a while and once i'm into my game i try and play it exactly as if i was playing the lower level.(which in itself could be the problem,i don't know?maybe the higher levels need a different approach or more thinking is required?again i don't have the answers atm.)
once i've paid my £5.50 dym money or loaded up £10 for cash that's it it's gone from my account and i'm trying to double it up,win,etc.
if it was easy i'm guessing everyone playing would be able to win and make money,even though i know that's not possible,but i'm sure you know what i'm getting at.
isn't it something like 10% that win the rest either breakeven or lose?
be nice mate if you could drop that book around mate,thanks very much.i'm sure as you say it will help,and god knows i need it atm.
i'll e-mail you my address.
cheers Gary and keep up the good work with your challenge,you're doing brilliant.
dev
yeah i'll post some up in a mo.don't know where to start though there are so many of them. lols
i'm one of the biggest nits going mate as many will know,and playing nl10 with now only 25 buy-ins is a 1st for me.
it won't effect my game though and i'll play exactly the same as if i had 100 buy-ins.
if i lose another 10 it won't kill me and i can easily re-build going back to dym's.
i,'ve set myself this challenge and am just as determined to see it through now as when i started on January 1st.
if i fail i fail, but we're not there yet.
best wishes mate.
dev
identify the players that call down with worse a lot and then you need value bet a lot
There are a lot more players at nl10 that have it than nl4.
Get over the mindblock that nl10 is difficult because it's not, it's just not as easy as nl4.
also they don't bluff, unless you know for sure they are a known bluffer !
Be the player that has it and bets/raises and does not call unless oppo is a bluffer
simples !
i'm going to have to do more work away from the table i think if i'm to make any headway.
i've not done much until now if i'm being honest so today it all begins.
as i've said it's only a hobby but i guess i'll have to go through this process as i'm sure many of you other players have.
i usually 'play it by ear' and try and learn from my mistakes as i'm going along,but it's clearly slow progress atm,and something extra is need.
i've still got a lot to learn and i guess you can only learn so much at a time.
i'll continue playing nl10 and drop back to playing 2 tables.
i've got to also play shorter sessions and find a way of doing so.
by writing this down it should help me to do so...hopefully.
ok, that's it,yesterdays gone.i'll now move on.
i'm not looking back there is only one way to go...forwards.
i've no idea what happens next,but isn't that all part of the fun when playing this wonderful game.
over and out
dev
yeah all good points mate,thanks.
just a bad night at the office i'm hoping.think we all have them occasionally.
it's all so very different for me from dym's and i know i'm making silly mistakes here and there,which are costing me.
i'm also struggling to find any sort of playing time routine and this is having a major effect atm,i feel.
i'm playing way to long and added to that probably 2 or more tables to many,and it's simply a car crash waiting to happen,or just happened should i say.
it's a new day and i can't change what's happened, only what's going to happen from now on.
i'll hopefully look back on yesterday as possibly one of the best days i could have had,which sounds strange right now,but it could just be the wake up call i needed.
best wishes buddy
dev