I dare anyone to keep a track record of their All-ins, and not see it even out in the long-run. SkyPoker is NOT rigged. They have no incentive to rig it, and it's regulated by an independant gaming comission. Anyone claiming otherwise is acting on emotion and needs to either: 1) Take a step back, re-evaluate your claims based on statistical absolutes, and move on from there. 2) Take a break from poker, or learn a way to deal with tilt and/or people sucking out. 3) Realise that poker isn't for you, if you can't handle losing a few pots.
What you are not taking into account is peoples perceptions. There is a saying if it looks like sugar, tastes like sugar, smells like sugar then a lot of people are going to make the natural assumption it's sugar. You will never change the mind of a person who is already convinced and is actively looking for conspiracy. Personally I do not believe sky poker is rigged in anyone's favour at all. I believe we all have just as much chance as the next man and NO-ONE has any advantage. Do I believe there is an algorithm running that elicits action hands yes I'm afraid I do. Quads every single night playing the same game I play every night. FH over full house, flushes after flushes, straight after straight draw and the constant river changing the outcome of the hand. So I made my opinion clear but I also know that I am just as likely to hit runner runner straight draw ,miracle 2 per cent river cards as the next man. So my opinion is sky is not fixed in any way at all. I feel I am at no disadvantage what so ever, there is no magic luck slider sky can adjust to make me suddenly run bad. It is what it is. Laughable as some hands are, aa v kk v qq and a flop guaranteed to be paint heavy. I like sky, it is hugely entertaining and although I do believe hands are built for action I do not think it is any different to any other sites. If you really do believe it is actually corrupt and has the ability to target particular individuals, as said previously perhaps try another site or do not play. Poker is meant to be frustrating. Last night I predicted the next card would be not only a 7 but the seven of clubs. I was absolutely spot on because I had 2 7's and the flop had two clubs. I knew sky would temp me in by turning the seven of clubs and someone would make a flush. So theoretically that would prove my action theory BUT and heres the big but I do this all the time and so far I have only got two card and suit predictions right.....I've been here for five years.
Who knows play if you find it enjoyable don't if you don't.
You will never change the mind of a person who is already convinced and is actively looking for conspiracy. Personally I do not believe sky poker is rigged in anyone's favour at all. I believe we all have just as much chance as the next man and NO-ONE has any advantage. Do I believe there is an algorithm running that elicits action hands yes I'm afraid I do. Quads every single night playing the same game I play every night. FH over full house, flushes after flushes, straight after straight draw and the constant river changing the outcome of the hand. So I made my opinion clear but I also know that I am just as likely to hit runner runner straight draw ,miracle 2 per cent river cards as the next man. So my opinion is sky is not fixed in any way at all. I feel I am at no disadvantage what so ever, there is no magic luck slider sky can adjust to make me suddenly run bad. It is what it is. Laughable as some hands are, aa v kk v qq and a flop guaranteed to be paint heavy. I like sky, it is hugely entertaining and although I do believe hands are built for action I do not think it is any different to any other sites.
Not quite sure what to think of this post...
At the top, you explain how people will remain close-minded in their assumption that online poker is rigged in some way, and that some will just bury themselves into denial based on what they've seen and their inability to accurate coalate the information presented to them (suckouts for vs suckouts against etc).
And then in the 2nd half, you go on to say that you believe sites deal 'action flops' or 'action hands'?
As someone who plays a serious amount of volume, I can quite easily say this (most likely) isn't the case. There are plenty of hands where it just goes bet-fold, or raise-fold or just walks to someone in the BB.
You're claiming that the site generates these 'action boards' to get more rake. Which means it would only apply to cash games, right? Again, I dare anyone to compared MTT+SNG all-ins or hands, to those in cash, and see a difference. Or heck, just sit there objectively and look at the hands being played, and come up with the conclusion that Sky are illegally trying to get more money out of their consumer base.
To believe that such 'action hands' exist, you have to believe; 1) That this only happens in cash games (as the result or speed of hands in MTTs and SnGs is immaterial to SkyPokers' income. Or, that they also balance it in tourneys too, for no reason whatsoever. 2) That the corparation that monitors SkyPoker is turning a blind eye to this illegal software being produced, and that they were undeserving of their 2012 operator of the year award. 3) That the RNG, isn't an RNG. Hands are scripted. 4) The risk of getting caught or found out, and their reputation as a huge company being tarnished, isn't as great as them extracting a little bit more in rake by using this corrupt software. The difference would be minimal, considering that all-ins take a while, rake is usually capped at a certain point, and every hand that goes post flop gets raked anyway. 5) Of course the river is going to change the board more than any other street (apart from the 3 cards on the flop, coming all at once obviously). It's the final street and adds more texture to the board as a result. The more cards on the board, the more textured it is going to be, and thus, the more it will connect with peoples hands. It's the same in Stud for example. 7th street is the card that typically, you'll see change the hands the most. Because there are 6 cards for it to interact with. The same applies to the river in hold'em. Likewise, equity after the river will always be 100% or 0%. on the turn or the flop they almost never are, which again, explains why the river is often such a big street.
As said, i've played a tonne of volume on Sky, and nothing about itseems 'action hands'-y to me. Just my opinion though.
In Response to Re: loldonkaments : Not quite sure what to think of this post... At the top, you explain how people will remain close-minded in their assumption that online poker is rigged in some way, and that some will just bury themselves into denial based on what they've seen and their inability to accurate coalate the information presented to them (suckouts for vs suckouts against etc). And then in the 2nd half, you go on to say that you believe sites deal 'action flops' or 'action hands'? As someone who plays a serious amount of volume, I can quite easily say this (most likely) isn't the case.
You are trying to disprove some ones opinion. It's only my opinion. Getting away from the fact that I'm sure you can quite easily remain within the parameters laid down by the Alderney gaming commission or whoever it is. What is to stop an algorithm dealing 12 cards and ensuring on certain occasions that the flop turn and river are a mixture of the twelve cards already dealt. This would ensure action hands and would also generate above average occasions when the river card changes the outcome of the hand.(not saying they do this saying there are multiple ways of achieving action hands whilst still passing scrutiny)
It would also ensure games do not last beyond a certain acceptable timescale.
We have also seen an absolute massive conversion to REBUYS which up until a short while ago did not even exist. I may be wrong but there is rake on a rebuy and I have watched practically every game I used to play become a rebuy.
I do not believe sky is corrupt or rigged and as stated I am more than happy to play and except whatever rng algorithm they are using.
Even yourself can not help but put (most likely)in brackets I respect your point of view and I merely have a different one based on playing practically every night (pls do not take literally) and seeing the hands that are dealt every night.
There are websites devoted to those who see scam everywhere they look but I am not one. I merely suggest that I believe hands are dealt to illicit action. Ps I do not believe any other poker site is any different, I have played a few. Chances are I am wrong and it is just one huge phase I am going through where quads is normal every game, and triple picture card pairs are usually met with paint flops. As said merely an observation. I like sky poker it is what it is.
No foul,no robbery it affects everyone the same so it is fair.
be lucky on the tables if my opinion offends I apologise.
I find it interseting the way in which this topic has stimulate people discussion. It is clearly something close to people here. The problem is any sort of altering of the cards is rigging. If it is to benefit someone or to benefit more action on the hand to increase more rake then it is still rigging. I truely do enjoy poker and these beats I have witness on sky poker are outside what I know the odd are for this sort of game which i why I question it.
There are a lot of people here that have contact me with there own suspiscions.
However from what the last couple of guys have said I would ask a single question:
IF SKY ARE INDEPENDLY WHY CAN WE NOT SEE THE RESULTS? HOwmany hand are won on the flop,turn,river etc etc. It maybe that they are available and I just do not know where they are so if you know please tell me.
When you see law suit popping up all over the US against poker companies 'I' cannot help but wonder. It has got to the point that so many people compalin about it at some point something has to come out to either disprove this or prove it right. Until that time I will probably always play as these site have sown the seed that anyone can buy into a sat for 1.60 and win over £1k possibly more on other sites and when that oppertunity is there your would be stupid to turn it down.
All I can say on this now is if sky and other sites where open and hionest about these things then there would not be issue from people such as myself.
In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this. : i never called you a fool, i said you are making yourself sound like one because of the redic statement s you have come out with, you have worked out theoritcaly how much i would have payed in blinds and somehow linked that to what size my bankroll is, when there isnt that link there. going by your sums i need at least £1400 in my bankroll just to cover a months solid play. ask yourself this, how much of that theoritical money is recycled time n time again, you have took no account for winnings or anything else, you worked out figures based on assumptions i would fold or lose every hand, a bankroll is what you have to play with, i do adopt good management, and i certainly dont have the figures that you have tried to band about, people will say keep 30 or 40 buyins per level that you are playing to cover the ups and downs, not keep this fantasy figure because thats what you are going to play in blinds per month. i play well within my means thats why i play at the micros, i have no illusion of granduer of playing for vast sums like some high rollers. on another note, holdem manager and other programs similar are not compatible with sky, so that arguements out the window. i must also be a sky favourite, thats why i can win. Posted by TINTIN
You never called me a fool yet and I quote "you really are making a fool of yourself with that." What are you saying then? I have spoken to a few of my friends that play ong here and they say the same the sums are sound. If you playing at that level and that many hand and from what I saw last night you where across 12 tables you bank roll has to be in the *000's. So your bank roll go far and above what I have and has everything to do with your decision make process, and how I believe the site works. Not only that seems like the people with big bank rools always come back with comment like it is variance etc, sorry but no becaseu that would mean I would win some and I do not.
As for being a sky favourite I do not think thats the case i just think you have put enough money in.
You will note from my previous post that I was actually saying that you will be using some sort of program and used those to being that they are the bigger know ones as a point of reference.
Long and short of it TinTin is that I have questioned something you clearly find dear and have made some money at and that has got you. Accept the fact that people have opinions and that will always be the case.
I dare anyone to keep a track record of their All-ins, and not see it even out in the long-run. SkyPoker is NOT rigged. They have no incentive to rig it, and it's regulated by an independant gaming comission. Anyone claiming otherwise is acting on emotion and needs to either: 1) Take a step back, re-evaluate your claims based on statistical absolutes, and move on from there. 2) Take a break from poker, or learn a way to deal with tilt and/or people sucking out. 3) Realise that poker isn't for you, if you can't handle losing a few pots in a row. Everyone gets lucky, and most likely, you're forgetting the times when you get lucky on someone else. Every time people get it in good, they expect to win every single time, and when you don't it's like the site has it in for you or some bs. Every time you win a pot must be some form of running-good, because the times you lose, y'all go crazy about how unlucky you are. There needs to be balance. - When someone setmines but doesn't flop a set vs your overpair, that's running good. - When someone check-calls a bet with their gutshot, misses, then folds to your turn bet, that's running good. - When you get in QQ pre for 100bb and the other guy only has AK, that's running good. Why? Because the times when people get really lucky on us, hitting their sets, their 4outers, or when they just wake up with Aces or Kings, we think of it as a massive cooler set-up hand, looking up to the poker gods screaming "**** you all!". You NEED to realise that there isn't just luck in the form of all-ins. There's the run-good you DON'T SEE. This is incredibly important to realise, because if you don't, you're always going to see yourself running bad, and getting unlucky. You will never take mental note of people playing bad and not getting lucky on you, only the times that they do. This perpetuates itself into negative thoughts and poor deductions about how well we're running. If someone gets in AT vs my AK pre, the result is meaningless. We played it well, they played it bad, happy days. If I told you I wanted to bet you all even money, that it will be scorching hot tomorrow, at 1/1, you'd all bet against me, right? You place the bet versus me, chuckling to yourself that I've given you rediculously good odds on what is an almost certain outcome in your favour. Regardless of the weather tomorrow, you've made a good bet. You have gained value in the long run. Outcomes. 1) It's sunny, you think you're a genius and I'm an idiot for placing money on it not being sunny, and you think nothing more of it. You got your money in ahead, you deserved to win the bet, end of story. 2) I hit my miracle, and it's sunny. You pay up, cursing how unlucky you are, thinking that the weather gods are probably rigged and you're not going to bet against me again because i'm such a massive luckbox, because you should have never lost that bet. How rediculous does that sound? That's how rediculous your claims sound when you say that online poker is rigged. Good day to y'all. *Disclaimer* - No, I'm not laying even money on it being anything other than sunny tomorrow. Please stop PM-ing me about it, and how you can't wait to take my money. Posted by Smitalos
You miss my entire point. I have been annoied by it don't get me wrong. I am used to beats in this game you have to be. However what I do not have to accept is that in my time on the site I have witness it happen to much to. 10 out of 15 one night and then time after time after that. I have watched a massive amount of hand now since starting this post and continue to see it time and time again the number and probability do not add up.
I know you will say this is not a large enough size of information to make assumptions on. However when your ahead as favourite time and time again yet are always beaten by that magical river it become a joke.
You say you've seen a massive number of hands. Since your thread includes the time-frame of three weeks, I'm not sure how you can possibly have seen a massive number of hands but that's besides the point I want to make.
I assume that most of the hands you've seen go to the river have been all-in or relatively large pots - At least the ones that you've considered to be noteworthy have been. Could it possibly be that people only make big pots with big hands or big draws and therefore the board can change the winner of the pot dramatically on turn and river?
How many hands have you noted that didn't go to showdown? How much attention have you paid to hands that were taken down pre-flop, on the flop, turn or river? I'm guessing those hands don't fit your theory so they are disregarded in favour of hands that do. It's called "Confirmation Bias".
I have written on this thread before, telling you that the biggest reason you're losing is likely to be that you're playing too tight. I and others have offered you genuine advice in this matter. They and I are winning players (them more so than I). We have no reason to mislead you and have no desire to upset you. I apologise if you think I've had unpleasant intentions towards you but I generally find it best to be brutally honest: I think you need to address your own play and not worry about the RNG or the software. Just from reading your posts on this thread, I can assure you that there is alot you do not understand as well as you think you do.
I've also previously offered my opinion on the idea that the RNG is designed to produce action hands: I do not think this is the case but it can certainly appear that way at times. The biggest reason for that, in my opinion, is that Sky's players are overwhelmingly tight. Therefore, whenever the money does go in, at showdown it is a surprise if they don't both have big hands. Sometimes those hands are monster hands like Quads, sometimes it's just flush-over-flush. There are very few players on this site who are willing or capable of making big bluffs or big calls for all their stack. Very few in the regular player-base that is. Of course there are plenty of inexperienced players who play fleetingly.
IF SKY ARE INDEPENDLY WHY CAN WE NOT SEE THE RESULTS? Posted by ZeroG
When I first began playing on SkyPoker, there use to be a page on the site that published the results of the most recent analysis of the hand histories by the independent body they contract to do it. I'm pretty sure it was removed somewhile back as I've looked for it in the past but haven't been able to track it down.
Does anyone know if other sites publish their statistical analysis results?
someone in front puts in 800 I double it to 1600 3rd person folds. They ship it I call
they turn over QQ to my KK
So trip QQ against trip KK
so with a 94% chance of winning the hand at this point what do you think happens .......................................... you guess it that 4% out comes and a Q on the turn.
So I loose against to a questionable hand when I went in dominating.
Me, Borin, and others have made lengthy posts to try and help you guys get out of the massive hole of denial you've dug for yourselves. If you're not going to read others posts and react accordingly, discuss, or counter what we're saying, there's simply no point in anyone giving this thread any more attention. You're just sticking your fingers in your ears whining about how it always rains on you. I got 1outered the other day, <5%, do you hear me whining? I lost JJ to AQ on J99. 0.7%. Action flop? No. The money went in pre-flop. It came running Q Q. But i suck it up knowing that it'll happen back to me in my favour at some point in the future. READ THE POINTS UP THERE, and counter them. If your argument holds so much weight, how come I was able to quickly pick 5 gaping holes in your arguments, with no retort from either of you two.
This is all, as Borin said, confirmation bias. You're lacking the critical skills to act rationally, making purely emotional decisions with rhyme or reason, and it's not worth mine, or anyone elses time if you're not going to debate it, but instead just spout off conspiracy theories with no supporting evidence.
I can have a construtive debate on the matter. However as you say I have deluded myself to such an extent that the debate will not change my mind think about it the other way. Have people not deluded themselves to such an extent now that they want to believe poker is not rigged and it clouds their judgement.
I am not saying one way or the other yet. However I am annoied about the rate at which I seem to lose the hands with bad beats when the odds and statistic are so in my favour. I have no god given right to win like tonight i got all in with AQ suited and he turns over AK unsuited thats life i can accept that. I called it wrong. However when I turn over AA and he flops 78K turn 5 and river K all the time I question this.as to hit that card is what a 2% chance meaning it should happen 2 times out of 100 yet from the sample size I can current get I have seen it happen about 15%-17% of the time in the favour of the big stack.
If you look at the overall situation with online poker... what do you have? You have a game being run for profit by people of suspect integrity, customers who will play no matter what even if they are being cheated (because they are addicted), no oversight or punitive regulation or accountability of any type. Given this scenario, and the choice to run a clean game or a dirty game, they will always choose the dirty game because it makes more money for them. The only thing stopping them is ethics and morals, and the people running these have very little of either. We have already seen what happens when you let people of suspect character run the game like this - that's what happened in the formative years of Las Vegas. The online venue is no different.
You have a bunch of people of dubious character (the people running the online rooms are thieves, some of whom have convicitions for crooked activities). If you don't think they are, you need only look as far as the scandals that have come public in the past to know that this is the truth. First we had the Absolute Poker scandal, where “an inside employee” it was revealed, was playing with access to other players’ hole cards. Somehow, when someone got too greedy, it got out. Of course, “management” attempted to cover it up, but the uproar on the boards like P5, etc. created too much heat and so they were forced to admit that it was going on. Not-so-cleverly, they blamed it on “a rogue employee.” Oh puleeze – that excuse hasn’t worked since the Nixon administration. In fact, Nixon tried that one with Watergate, and it didn’t work. And it didn’t work for Enron. It NEVER works. Anytime anything that looks like corporate fraud happens and they blame it on a “rogue employee”, we ALWAYS eventually find out that it was deeper than that. Then comes the “hush money” where they make like they are reimbursing people for the money that was stolen from them, while, at the same time, they are still doing it! But it’s not a rogue employee – it’s a systematic management scheme to defraud the players all along, and the instance you hear about is just the tip of the iceberg – the one instance where it got out. But don’t believe me, because the folks at ULTIMATE BET told us that management is doing it! Look at the more recent scandal… ULTIMATE BET.
Yes indeed, it happened again… employees of ULTIMATE BET rigging games and playing with knowledge of hole cards of other players, etc. When it comes out, same procedure – attempted cover up. When it gets out too far to cover up, they admit it, attempt to silence the situation with hush money to “affected players”, then they come up with the excuse.
The folks at UB knew that the “rogue employee” excuse doesn’t pass the laugh test, so they didn’t even attempt it!! Instead, they admitted that it was management systematically stealing from customers by rigging games, viewing hole cards, etc. But they said it wasn’t THEM … you ready .. it was PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT doing it . Oh puleeze.. gag me with a spoon.
So, given the facts that we have: 1) Customers who aren't going anywere 2) Thieves running the game 3) No downside even if they get caught at running a crooked game 4) A profit motive
Why does it surprise anyone that these games aren't rigged???
Long story short, SkyPoker is part of a MASSIVE corporation. Yes, UB was a super unfortunate event in online pokers history. But the site was never rigged, it was one (or a few players) obtaining peoples holecards. It still operated on an RNG and never has a legit real money site (in my knowledge) been found of any bs in the RNG software.
Moving forwards, myself (and i'm sure a few other forums regulars) would love to see you put this all to the test and monitor your allins. Everytime you stack someone, double up, or get stacked, put it in a thread that's just dedicated to your progress. Watch them pile up, and then on reflection we can look back and deduce whether we're running bad, playing bad, both, or neither.
3yrs ago, when I was just starting out, i used to think FullTilt was rigged. Legit. I used to lose so much that I thought it was somehow all against me. A few hundred thousand hands, a bigger bankroll to deal with the swings, and some practice/learning/experience later, i realise what a fool i was to think that way. I just wasn't very good, and my small bankroll made me curse every time i got my money in, thinking nothing of it when i won, and going crazy when i lost.
I'm not saying anyone's a fool for thinking online poker is rigged, but it's important that once you take a step back and start reacted logically and not emotionaly, you realise how much better you'll be for it. GL guys.
While I agree that it probs isn't rigged or anything, SkyPoker being a 'massive' corporation really holds no weight towards anybodys argument.
Full Tilt was huge, way bigger than sky poker, they some how got away with what they were doing for years.
Banks (I know not related to anything lolol) constantly scam everybody.
Large supermarkets take v.risky moves, a lot prob illegal, to get more customers.
Smitalos, your argument is fine, and is a 'normal' response imo, it's what you'd EXPECT to be true. I'm saying I would most definitely NOT be surprised if Sky Poker, or any other site, is rigged in SOME kind of way. I have no idea how this would be possible, but I've seen much crazier things happen.
While I agree that it probs isn't rigged or anything, SkyPoker being a 'massive' corporation really holds no weight towards anybodys argument. Full Tilt was huge, way bigger than sky poker, they some how got away with what they were doing for years. Banks (I know not related to anything lolol) constantly scam everybody. Large supermarkets take v.risky moves, a lot prob illegal, to get more customers. Smitalos, your argument is fine, and is a 'normal' response imo, it's what you'd EXPECT to be true. I'm saying I would most definitely NOT be surprised if Sky Poker, or any other site, is rigged in SOME kind of way. I have no idea how this would be possible, but I've seen much crazier things happen. #weknownothing Posted by percival09
For sure. Always be skeptical, question everything, etc etc. Was just trying to say that bigger the company the more unlikely the are to jeopardise their image for the sake of a relatively miniscule part of their income. Plus, they seem to have a good rep too, based on past history. The FTP fiasco was a stand-alone business, and the banks are just... well, corrupt fat cats, you know the drill.
Always good to have a reality check now and again, staying inquisitive and making sure we don't assume absolutes etc, cheers Percy. Yep, i did just call you Percy, even though ik that not you're real name. I've been up 24hrs ffs, my brain is like mush. gg Smit, off i trot to dream about binking the 2k TCOOP high roller.
In Response to Re: Been playing 3 weeks on Sky poker and cannot believe this. : For sure. Always be skeptical, question everything, etc etc. Was just trying to say that bigger the company the more unlikely the are to jeopardise their image for the sake of a relatively miniscule part of their income. Plus, they seem to have a good rep too, based on past history. The FTP fiasco was a stand-alone business, and the banks are just... well, corrupt fat cats, you know the drill. Always good to have a reality check now and again, staying inquisitive and making sure we don't assume absolutes etc, cheers Percy. Yep, i did just call you Percy, even though ik that not you're real name. I've been up 24hrs ffs, my brain is like mush. gg Smit, off i trot to dream about binking the 2k TCOOP high roller. #usingtwitterhashtagsoutsideoftwitterisrudeboi #gohomesmityoudrunk #andmemesarecooltoo Night all, run good out there. Posted by Smitalos
Even though I know very little about black friday, I'm going to assume concern was raised about the ownership of full tilt before it actually happened, even if only be a few players? And if so, they would have just covered it like any company would lol basically they can just cover anything up by saying anything and we have no option other than to believe it really. There's no way we could really find the truth other than by a company being busted and found out. debate is good though.
Interesting read folks. Just an idea for the sceptics out there. Submit a Freedom of Information request to Sky for the independent test results? Good luck Posted by VespaPX
FoI request? Is this serious? Sky is a privately owned entity and as such has no obligation to divulge anything outside of their accounts and all of the mandatory blurb that goes wiith them. You're certainly going to need good luck with that one!
Got dealt AA 3 times in 45 minutes last night, which is a bit freaky, even more freaky they got cracked every time! Nightmare - still wouldn't say Sky is rigged. Wonder about some boards though, they always just right to max the rake in cash games.
Freaky update: 6th deal AA, won the pot as all folded round to me on BB - arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I just see Goethes article about the odds calculator and put in a beat i had a while ago and it came out that after the flop i were(or was)a 99.27% favourite .I just wonder if there is a higher percentage than my one ?The hand in question were me with JJ on a flop of J 10 10 and opponent had AK ,turn 10 ,river 10 ! Posted by booboo5205
Did you really get AK in on JTT?
Or did you just get it in preflop AK v JJ, and are now whining about the irrelavent way in which order the cards came out in?
Comments
At the top, you explain how people will remain close-minded in their assumption that online poker is rigged in some way, and that some will just bury themselves into denial based on what they've seen and their inability to accurate coalate the information presented to them (suckouts for vs suckouts against etc).
And then in the 2nd half, you go on to say that you believe sites deal 'action flops' or 'action hands'?
As someone who plays a serious amount of volume, I can quite easily say this (most likely) isn't the case.
There are plenty of hands where it just goes bet-fold, or raise-fold or just walks to someone in the BB.
You're claiming that the site generates these 'action boards' to get more rake.
Which means it would only apply to cash games, right?
Again, I dare anyone to compared MTT+SNG all-ins or hands, to those in cash, and see a difference. Or heck, just sit there objectively and look at the hands being played, and come up with the conclusion that Sky are illegally trying to get more money out of their consumer base.
To believe that such 'action hands' exist, you have to believe;
1) That this only happens in cash games (as the result or speed of hands in MTTs and SnGs is immaterial to SkyPokers' income. Or, that they also balance it in tourneys too, for no reason whatsoever.
2) That the corparation that monitors SkyPoker is turning a blind eye to this illegal software being produced, and that they were undeserving of their 2012 operator of the year award.
3) That the RNG, isn't an RNG. Hands are scripted.
4) The risk of getting caught or found out, and their reputation as a huge company being tarnished, isn't as great as them extracting a little bit more in rake by using this corrupt software. The difference would be minimal, considering that all-ins take a while, rake is usually capped at a certain point, and every hand that goes post flop gets raked anyway.
5) Of course the river is going to change the board more than any other street (apart from the 3 cards on the flop, coming all at once obviously). It's the final street and adds more texture to the board as a result. The more cards on the board, the more textured it is going to be, and thus, the more it will connect with peoples hands. It's the same in Stud for example. 7th street is the card that typically, you'll see change the hands the most. Because there are 6 cards for it to interact with. The same applies to the river in hold'em. Likewise, equity after the river will always be 100% or 0%. on the turn or the flop they almost never are, which again, explains why the river is often such a big street.
As said, i've played a tonne of volume on Sky, and nothing about itseems 'action hands'-y to me. Just my opinion though.
I assume that most of the hands you've seen go to the river have been all-in or relatively large pots - At least the ones that you've considered to be noteworthy have been. Could it possibly be that people only make big pots with big hands or big draws and therefore the board can change the winner of the pot dramatically on turn and river?
How many hands have you noted that didn't go to showdown? How much attention have you paid to hands that were taken down pre-flop, on the flop, turn or river? I'm guessing those hands don't fit your theory so they are disregarded in favour of hands that do. It's called "Confirmation Bias".
I have written on this thread before, telling you that the biggest reason you're losing is likely to be that you're playing too tight. I and others have offered you genuine advice in this matter. They and I are winning players (them more so than I). We have no reason to mislead you and have no desire to upset you. I apologise if you think I've had unpleasant intentions towards you but I generally find it best to be brutally honest: I think you need to address your own play and not worry about the RNG or the software. Just from reading your posts on this thread, I can assure you that there is alot you do not understand as well as you think you do.
I've also previously offered my opinion on the idea that the RNG is designed to produce action hands: I do not think this is the case but it can certainly appear that way at times. The biggest reason for that, in my opinion, is that Sky's players are overwhelmingly tight. Therefore, whenever the money does go in, at showdown it is a surprise if they don't both have big hands. Sometimes those hands are monster hands like Quads, sometimes it's just flush-over-flush. There are very few players on this site who are willing or capable of making big bluffs or big calls for all their stack. Very few in the regular player-base that is. Of course there are plenty of inexperienced players who play fleetingly.
I hope you run better in future ZeroG.
Does anyone know if other sites publish their statistical analysis results?
I got 1outered the other day, <5%, do you hear me whining?
I lost JJ to AQ on J99. 0.7%. Action flop? No. The money went in pre-flop. It came running Q Q. But i suck it up knowing that it'll happen back to me in my favour at some point in the future.
READ THE POINTS UP THERE, and counter them. If your argument holds so much weight, how come I was able to quickly pick 5 gaping holes in your arguments, with no retort from either of you two.
This is all, as Borin said, confirmation bias. You're lacking the critical skills to act rationally, making purely emotional decisions with rhyme or reason, and it's not worth mine, or anyone elses time if you're not going to debate it, but instead just spout off conspiracy theories with no supporting evidence.
/thread
You have a bunch of people of dubious character (the people running the online rooms are thieves, some of whom have convicitions for crooked activities). If you don't think they are, you need only look as far as the scandals that have come public in the past to know that this is the truth. First we had the Absolute Poker scandal, where “an inside employee” it was revealed, was playing with access to other players’ hole cards. Somehow, when someone got too greedy, it got out. Of course, “management” attempted to cover it up, but the uproar on the boards like P5, etc. created too much heat and so they were forced to admit that it was going on. Not-so-cleverly, they blamed it on “a rogue employee.” Oh puleeze – that excuse hasn’t worked since the Nixon administration. In fact, Nixon tried that one with Watergate, and it didn’t work. And it didn’t work for Enron. It NEVER works. Anytime anything that looks like corporate fraud happens and they blame it on a “rogue employee”, we ALWAYS eventually find out that it was deeper than that. Then comes the “hush money” where they make like they are reimbursing people for the money that was stolen from them, while, at the same time, they are still doing it! But it’s not a rogue employee – it’s a systematic management scheme to defraud the players all along, and the instance you hear about is just the tip of the iceberg – the one instance where it got out. But don’t believe me, because the folks at ULTIMATE BET told us that management is doing it! Look at the more recent scandal… ULTIMATE BET.
Yes indeed, it happened again… employees of ULTIMATE BET rigging games and playing with knowledge of hole cards of other players, etc. When it comes out, same procedure – attempted cover up. When it gets out too far to cover up, they admit it, attempt to silence the situation with hush money to “affected players”, then they come up with the excuse.
The folks at UB knew that the “rogue employee” excuse doesn’t pass the laugh test, so they didn’t even attempt it!! Instead, they admitted that it was management systematically stealing from customers by rigging games, viewing hole cards, etc. But they said it wasn’t THEM … you ready .. it was PREVIOUS MANAGEMENT doing it . Oh puleeze.. gag me with a spoon.
So, given the facts that we have:
1) Customers who aren't going anywere
2) Thieves running the game
3) No downside even if they get caught at running a crooked game
4) A profit motive
Why does it surprise anyone that these games aren't rigged???
Moving forwards, myself (and i'm sure a few other forums regulars) would love to see you put this all to the test and monitor your allins.
Everytime you stack someone, double up, or get stacked, put it in a thread that's just dedicated to your progress. Watch them pile up, and then on reflection we can look back and deduce whether we're running bad, playing bad, both, or neither.
3yrs ago, when I was just starting out, i used to think FullTilt was rigged. Legit. I used to lose so much that I thought it was somehow all against me. A few hundred thousand hands, a bigger bankroll to deal with the swings, and some practice/learning/experience later, i realise what a fool i was to think that way. I just wasn't very good, and my small bankroll made me curse every time i got my money in, thinking nothing of it when i won, and going crazy when i lost.
I'm not saying anyone's a fool for thinking online poker is rigged, but it's important that once you take a step back and start reacted logically and not emotionaly, you realise how much better you'll be for it. GL guys.
Was just trying to say that bigger the company the more unlikely the are to jeopardise their image for the sake of a relatively miniscule part of their income. Plus, they seem to have a good rep too, based on past history.
The FTP fiasco was a stand-alone business, and the banks are just... well, corrupt fat cats, you know the drill.
Always good to have a reality check now and again, staying inquisitive and making sure we don't assume absolutes etc, cheers Percy. Yep, i did just call you Percy, even though ik that not you're real name. I've been up 24hrs ffs, my brain is like mush. gg Smit, off i trot to dream about binking the 2k TCOOP high roller.
#usingtwitterhashtagsoutsideoftwitterisrudeboi
#gohomesmityoudrunk
#andmemesarecooltoo
Night all, run good out there.
Just an idea for the sceptics out there.
Submit a Freedom of Information request to Sky for the independent test results?
Good luck
Or did you just get it in preflop AK v JJ, and are now whining about the irrelavent way in which order the cards came out in?