Would be curious to get some opinions on pre flop shoving ranges in bounty hunters compared to regular MTT's.
So, we're playing a Sky BH, it folds round to us on the button and we have a 10bb stack with an average sized bounty on our head. Both the SB and BB are unknown players to us and each have 40bb stack. We're a long way from the bubble and we will be either shoving or folding in this spot.
Compared to our strategy in a non-bounty event, which of the following would you consider the best/correct approach?
A. We need to shove with a stronger, tighter range than a regular MTT as our opponents will be calling wider due to the added bounty equity.
B. Because we expect out opponents to be calling wider, we can in turn shove with a wider range.
C. We generally want to use the same shoving range as we would in a regular MTT. As we expect our opponents to be calling wider, our range as a whole will have more equity when we are called.
D. Other - please elaborate!
This got no love from the good regulars then(?) It's a shame. I feel like people don't mind discussing some hands in isolation but seem less inclined to talk about their general approach to the game type or their strategy in spots like this one in particular (or similar).
D. The opposite to our table image. So-if perceived as tight, shove wide. If seen as LAGgy, then tighter range...
I think table image is very underrated by players. I think hand strength should also be looked at in conjunction with our general image and how recently active we have been. If we have shoved say 3 times in the last orbit our chances of being called are higher so we should shove a bit tighter. Just like if we have been tighter than cpfc holds onto his wallet when its time to get a round in we can shove a bit lighter as should gain a bit of respect.
Would be curious to get some opinions on pre flop shoving ranges in bounty hunters compared to regular MTT's.
So, we're playing a Sky BH, it folds round to us on the button and we have a 10bb stack with an average sized bounty on our head. Both the SB and BB are unknown players to us and each have 40bb stack. We're a long way from the bubble and we will be either shoving or folding in this spot.
Compared to our strategy in a non-bounty event, which of the following would you consider the best/correct approach?
A. We need to shove with a stronger, tighter range than a regular MTT as our opponents will be calling wider due to the added bounty equity.
B. Because we expect out opponents to be calling wider, we can in turn shove with a wider range.
C. We generally want to use the same shoving range as we would in a regular MTT. As we expect our opponents to be calling wider, our range as a whole will have more equity when we are called.
D. Other - please elaborate!
This got no love from the good regulars then(?) It's a shame. I feel like people don't mind discussing some hands in isolation but seem less inclined to talk about their general approach to the game type or their strategy in spots like this one in particular (or similar).
D. The opposite to our table image. So-if perceived as tight, shove wide. If seen as LAGgy, then tighter range...
I think table image is very underrated by players. I think hand strength should also be looked at in conjunction with our general image and how recently active we have been. If we have shoved say 3 times in the last orbit our chances of being called are higher so we should shove a bit tighter. Just like if we have been tighter than cpfc holds onto his wallet when its time to get a round in we can shove a bit lighter as should gain a bit of respect.
Can we not just use the push/fold charts for 10bb on button and be profitable though, or is it not as simple as that?
Would be curious to get some opinions on pre flop shoving ranges in bounty hunters compared to regular MTT's.
So, we're playing a Sky BH, it folds round to us on the button and we have a 10bb stack with an average sized bounty on our head. Both the SB and BB are unknown players to us and each have 40bb stack. We're a long way from the bubble and we will be either shoving or folding in this spot.
Compared to our strategy in a non-bounty event, which of the following would you consider the best/correct approach?
A. We need to shove with a stronger, tighter range than a regular MTT as our opponents will be calling wider due to the added bounty equity.
B. Because we expect out opponents to be calling wider, we can in turn shove with a wider range.
C. We generally want to use the same shoving range as we would in a regular MTT. As we expect our opponents to be calling wider, our range as a whole will have more equity when we are called.
D. Other - please elaborate!
This got no love from the good regulars then(?) It's a shame. I feel like people don't mind discussing some hands in isolation but seem less inclined to talk about their general approach to the game type or their strategy in spots like this one in particular (or similar).
D. The opposite to our table image. So-if perceived as tight, shove wide. If seen as LAGgy, then tighter range...
I think table image is very underrated by players. I think hand strength should also be looked at in conjunction with our general image and how recently active we have been. If we have shoved say 3 times in the last orbit our chances of being called are higher so we should shove a bit tighter. Just like if we have been tighter than cpfc holds onto his wallet when its time to get a round in we can shove a bit lighter as should gain a bit of respect.
Can we not just use the push/fold charts for 10bb on button and be profitable though, or is it not as simple as that?
It is not as simple as that.
Push/fold charts are a really important starting point. But poker is a game of incomplete information. Quite apart from the fact that it only gives push or fold as the options (and there are many occasions when neither is the best option), it is missing 2 important pieces of information, namely:-
1. Whether the other player plays correctly (so people who fold too often or call too wide than "optimal" skew the figures); and 2. Whether the other player knows you know the push/fold charts (because people who do not shove considerably less)
If you have those pieces of information, should soon be able to modify standard push/fold from the default setting according to individual players
In case any pedantic sorts are reading this and wondering why my profit figure differs slightly from Sharkscope, for those unaware, Sharky is unable to accurately track rebuys. Instead, it takes the average buy-in across the field.
Here's a fun graph for you then - just a casual $20m downswing
Brownie points for anyone who can name which famous poker pro this belongs to...
I noticed you was down to the last 4 just before I went to bed so I opened up the table just in time to see you shove TT into AA.... I'll stay away next time I notice you at a final table
I noticed you was down to the last 4 just before I went to bed so I opened up the table just in time to see you shove TT into AA.... I'll stay away next time I notice you at a final table
Absolutely brutal day at the tables. I certainly didn't play my best but I really did run appallingly too. The day started with me being dumped out of the 17:30 BH when AA couldn't hold vs the mighty 53 and finished in the Midnight Express when AA was no match for the even mightier 32. Almost everything else in between was just as ugly. I did win £1 with a min cash in the rewards freeroll though!
I usually try to find something positive to take from each session and, despite having possibly my toughest ever MTT session from a bad beats perspective, I think I still can. Whilst unpleasant, tonight probably best sums up the whole reason for this challenge. Previously, an MTT session like this would have me leave all this tourney nonsense alone for a couple of weeks and lick my wounds over some well selected cash games instead. Whether or not I actually want to become an MTT reg remains to be seen but, if I were to, dealing with this kind of adversity is all part of the package. If the challenge was just one big heater then I wouldn't really have learned much about myself along the way.
Absolutely brutal day at the tables. I certainly didn't play my best but I really did run appallingly too. The day started with me being dumped out of the 17:30 BH when AA couldn't hold vs the mighty 53 and finished in the Midnight Express when AA was no match for the even mightier 32. Almost everything else in between was just as ugly. I did win £1 with a min cash in the rewards freeroll though!
I usually try to find something positive to take from each session and, despite having possibly my toughest ever MTT session from a bad beats perspective, I think I still can. Whilst unpleasant, tonight probably best sums up the whole reason for this challenge. Previously, an MTT session like this would have me leave all this tourney nonsense alone for a couple of weeks and lick my wounds over some well selected cash games instead. Whether or not I actually want to become an MTT reg remains to be seen but, if I were to, dealing with this kind of adversity is all part of the package. If the challenge was just one big heater then I wouldn't really have learned much about myself along the way.
As you've already alluded to, the toughest part of this (mentally) will be going from making decent profits from almost every cash session you play to losing more sessions than you win in MTT's (even @MattBates has more losing sessions than winning ones... not by much though ). It's also going to be fairly easy to drop £100+ a session at your current schedule but hopefully you don't have too many sessions where you run this bad.
Liking the pma - keep it up! If the goal is to just fire everything running £33 and below and learn some lessons along the path to enlightenment, then cool. If part of the goal is to make a healthy profit along the way over the course of just one month then personally I think you could game select a bit better and still hit your volume goals. Not out of the realms of possibility to just get rekt in those bigger buy-in turbos for the whole month, which will significantly impact your bottom line. Just my 2 cents'...
Absolutely brutal day at the tables. I certainly didn't play my best but I really did run appallingly too. The day started with me being dumped out of the 17:30 BH when AA couldn't hold vs the mighty 53 and finished in the Midnight Express when AA was no match for the even mightier 32. Almost everything else in between was just as ugly. I did win £1 with a min cash in the rewards freeroll though!
I usually try to find something positive to take from each session and, despite having possibly my toughest ever MTT session from a bad beats perspective, I think I still can. Whilst unpleasant, tonight probably best sums up the whole reason for this challenge. Previously, an MTT session like this would have me leave all this tourney nonsense alone for a couple of weeks and lick my wounds over some well selected cash games instead. Whether or not I actually want to become an MTT reg remains to be seen but, if I were to, dealing with this kind of adversity is all part of the package. If the challenge was just one big heater then I wouldn't really have learned much about myself along the way.
As you've already alluded to, the toughest part of this (mentally) will be going from making decent profits from almost every cash session you play to losing more sessions than you win in MTT's (even @MattBates has more losing sessions than winning ones... not by much though ). It's also going to be fairly easy to drop £100+ a session at your current schedule but hopefully you don't have too many sessions where you run this bad.
Keep on keeping on.
glgl
Myna 'I hate the 7 at 7 so I never play it' Frett Gg!
Comments
Push/fold charts are a really important starting point. But poker is a game of incomplete information. Quite apart from the fact that it only gives push or fold as the options (and there are many occasions when neither is the best option), it is missing 2 important pieces of information, namely:-
1. Whether the other player plays correctly (so people who fold too often or call too wide than "optimal" skew the figures); and
2. Whether the other player knows you know the push/fold charts (because people who do not shove considerably less)
If you have those pieces of information, should soon be able to modify standard push/fold from the default setting according to individual players
In case any pedantic sorts are reading this and wondering why my profit figure differs slightly from Sharkscope, for those unaware, Sharky is unable to accurately track rebuys. Instead, it takes the average buy-in across the field.
Here's a fun graph for you then - just a casual $20m downswing
Brownie points for anyone who can name which famous poker pro this belongs to...
Is it Donald Trump's graph from when he was a successful poker professional?
Well played though.
Absolutely brutal day at the tables. I certainly didn't play my best but I really did run appallingly too. The day started with me being dumped out of the 17:30 BH when AA couldn't hold vs the mighty 53 and finished in the Midnight Express when AA was no match for the even mightier 32. Almost everything else in between was just as ugly. I did win £1 with a min cash in the rewards freeroll though!
I usually try to find something positive to take from each session and, despite having possibly my toughest ever MTT session from a bad beats perspective, I think I still can. Whilst unpleasant, tonight probably best sums up the whole reason for this challenge. Previously, an MTT session like this would have me leave all this tourney nonsense alone for a couple of weeks and lick my wounds over some well selected cash games instead. Whether or not I actually want to become an MTT reg remains to be seen but, if I were to, dealing with this kind of adversity is all part of the package. If the challenge was just one big heater then I wouldn't really have learned much about myself along the way.
MTT's played: 75
MTT's won: 0
Profit/Loss: +£130.03
I'm not really sure Phil needs any more brownies though
And yes, it was just the 2 I believe and no one topped that.
Good attitude.
As you've already alluded to, the toughest part of this (mentally) will be going from making decent profits from almost every cash session you play to losing more sessions than you win in MTT's (even @MattBates has more losing sessions than winning ones... not by much though
Keep on keeping on.
glgl