Felt knackered so opted for a very short session with just 8 played and no main or mini included. Very little to report except for another near miss with 3rd place in an £11bh and £10 for a deep run in the rewards freeroll. Tanked everywhere else but those two were just about enough to add another sliver of profit onto the running total. The plan is for an early night so I'm hopefully fresh for a big grind tomorrow.
Winner winner chicken dinner! After managing 19 final tables in the challenge so far, I finally have my first victory. To be fair, it barely counts as an MTT as it was a £5.50 turbo freezeout with just 20 players in total, but I'll still take it. With so few players, the £50 I got for 1st wasn't even enough to surpass the £60 I'd won earlier in the evening for 7th in a £5.50bh .
Besides the the two mentioned above, there was little other excitement of note so it's another night with a small profit overall. Including the tiny 3 game session I played on Monday, I've now recorded a profit on 8 out of 11 days played so far, which is pretty sweet. It's times like this I'd love to be able to download my Sky hands into Pokertracker and look at things like my chip ev to get a sense of whether I'm running ridiculously hot or not. Obviously winning 73% of MTT sessions is unsustainable longer term, but I wonder if I had slightly exaggerated expectations of MTT variance before embarking on a concerted push at this format. I guess I do need to bear in mind that average field sizes on Sky are much smaller than elsewhere (I'm averaging 183 entrants per MTT which includes some heavily populated freerolls), and there is a large concentration of bounty hunters too which allows for cashing without a high finishing position. Anyway, I'm sure that's tempted fate nicely!
The only negative was that my volume was a little lower than ideal with 16 played on the night. At this rate I'm unlikely to reach the 500 game target by my deadline of July 5th, but anything remotely close will still make for a worthwhile exercise.
In terms of winning sessions % I don't think its a stat I would worry about. It might mean something from a mental game perspective but if you think about it then it really doesn't matter. I think how often you make FTs and how often you convert is a lot more important. Also, part of how often you do this depends on your style. For example, you can have a high ITM % which will probably lead to lots of winning sessions but if you are not turning cashes into FTs and FTs into wins then a high ITM % isn't being converted to a good ROI.
In terms of winning sessions % I don't think its a stat I would worry about. It might mean something from a mental game perspective but if you think about it then it really doesn't matter. I think how often you make FTs and how often you convert is a lot more important. Also, part of how often you do this depends on your style. For example, you can have a high ITM % which will probably lead to lots of winning sessions but if you are not turning cashes into FTs and FTs into wins then a high ITM % isn't being converted to a good ROI.
Thanks Matt.
I'm not paying too much attention to the percentage of winning sessions. Many of those small winning nights have been tantamount to break even so it would take a very small shift in my results for those percentages to be the other way round, without it having too major an impact on my overall profit figure. What has surprised me so far are the very few instances of having sessions where I essentially brick almost everything I play. It's an lol sample size of course but the ride has certainly been less bumpy than expected so far.
One possible reason for the above is that I think I've been playing a little nittier than normal, which is mostly a consequence of having more MTT's running than usual - I'm often erring on the side of caution when I have a number of close decisions to make at the same time. I'm undoubtedly playing far from my best but hopefully the more tourney experience I get under my belt, the better I'll be in those kind of spots. 19 FT's from 166 games is probably pretty good. 1 win from 19 FT's is utterly dreadful .
Really struggled to find the enthusiasm tonight so only managed to play 9 tourneys. After 6 nights played on the trot I should probably look to take a break but some new found sense of dogged determination (the challenge is doing it's job then!) means I'll probably be back at it tomorrow - especially for the Forum Triple Takedown games as I had a great start in those but missed last Monday.
No more victories to report but Dues the min-cash master was at least able to work his usual magic so there is a another small slice of profit to add to the kitty. The deepest run came in an £11bh where I finished 3rd with a hugely impressive zero heads taken. Money wise, that was topped slightly by a min-cash in the £33bh where thankfully I did manage a few scalps along the way.
One of the toughest bad beats of the challenge came last night, which I was fortunate to be on the right side of. Posting to remind myself that variance is a two way street for the next time I feel well and truly shafted by lady luck.
It's all starting to feel a bit like Groundhog Day. Another evening of flagging motivation saw me stop registering for anything after 20:30 so just 11 more played tonight. Once more there is nothing too thrilling to report on but a couple of deep runs here and there plus the odd bounty makes for a small profit once again.
I have a few things to ponder regarding the future of this challenge but my brain currently feels too much like scrambled eggs to work those things out, let alone put them into words.
WARNING: Random stream of consciousness incoming...
If you have any paint to go and watch dry, it might be more interesting than reading this.
So, it's looking like there is next to no chance that I'll be hitting the 500 game target by the July 5th deadline. That's ok though. I started this to find out whether significantly increasing my MTT volume would be a good thing for me and poker in general, and I feel like I've learned a lot about myself already.
500 was a fairly arbitrary number based on briefly looking at the Sharkscope leaderboard and volume levels of some of the busiest Sky MTT regs (500 in one month seemed fairly 'light' compared to some). One thing I hadn't realised was quite how much of that volume consisted of satellites, including a high number of lottery sats - they're clearly all a bunch of filthy degens really . Given that sats (and timed tourneys) were not part of the plan, 500 regular MTT's in a month would put me up there with some of the most prolific and experienced MTT grinders on the site - a rather tall order for a relative tournament novice who is the wrong side of 40.
One thing I've known for a long time now is that my best results are achieved through optimising my playing conditions. Volume for the sheer sake of it is not a good thing and if I were to go all out to try and hit the 500 target in time, I'd be intentionally putting myself in sub-optimal conditions. By 8:30pm on Monday I was 10 tabling and there were other games starting that I would have preferred to be playing but I didn't register for them as I felt I wouldn't do myself justice in either them, or the games I already had running. I think Sky is one of the toughest sites to mass multi-table - a fast shot clock, no timebanks, no HUD's and everything is 6max. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I definitely need to be structuring my game choices better. Having some random £2.20bh suddenly pop up as table number 10 purely because I'm trying to get through X number of tournaments in a month is not a +EV choice for me.
When it comes to Sky and MTT's, I think multi-tabling breaks down like this for me:
1-4 = A game. 5-6 = B game. 6-9 = C game. 10+ = Random button clicking.
Although I'm confident that my C game is still profitable (in softer line-ups at least), I think I'd be best served by trying to cap things at 6 tables - unless I have a particularly compelling reason to be on more. I also need to remain mindful of the fact that the longer a session goes on, the more my focus and play quality decreases - 5 hours seems to be the point at which I really start to notice a decline (especially if the table count is still high at that point).
I guess this now begs the question of what my play schedule should look like? I think I need to find a good balance between enjoyment, profitability and growth as a player.
Although my edge is probably largest in them, I think pretty much anything under the £5.50 price point has to go (but for the odd exception). They may be some of the softest tournaments you'll find anywhere online but they almost never contain a large enough player pool to provide an even remotely significant score for taking one down. I also find playing against a table full of weak players tedious and it does nothing to stretch me or contribute to my learning curve as a budding MTT-er. They may still get a look in if I'm playing a daytime session though because the schedule as a whole is much lighter at those times.
Freerolls should obviously fall into the same category, but I find those a little harder to ditch completely. For a start, they're free! There's also twice as many of them available this month due to the promo. I've made £72 from the 18 freerolls I've played so far in June which is two main event buy-ins covered, plus a bit of change. I think these can stay for now unless they prevent me registering for other games I deem more worthwhile, or they take up too much of my focus. I may sometimes fire them up and just play like an utter maniac at the start to see if I can quickly build a significant enough stack to make a deep run likely.
Having looked into satellites a little more, I now feel even less inclined to start playing them. Potential returns seem fairly minimal (somewhat understandable given the flat payout structures I guess) and I'm sufficiently bankrolled for anything I'd currently choose to play. I think the screen and head space they'd take up could be used more wisely.
£5.50 bounty hunters are still keepers. There aren't many of them from 7-9pm which seems to be my most hectic time and they often achieve a good turnout so there can be decent money up top. The few £5.50 freezeouts that run never make decent numbers (Mega Stack aside) but my ROI in them is twice that of the same priced bounty hunters, so I think I need to be adding these as often as possible, unless they prevent me adding some bigger games instead.
£11-£22 games need to be given more priority, although they have featured fairly prominently since the first couple of days of the challenge were out of the way. My ROI is smaller in these so they'll make for a bumpier ride, but there are still plenty of punting lunatics in them too. I'm also likely to develop more as a player in these games (especially the £22's) as the greater concentration of decent regs will sharpen my learning curve and, if successful in them, give me the confidence to push higher. Tougher games are fundamentally more enjoyable for me too due to the intelectual challenge they present (as long as I'm not tanking in them indefinitely that is!). The £33 main events are a slam dunk obviously and the Sunday £33bh whilst being noticeably tougher adds another opportunity for a good 'lesson', as well as a potentially big score.
£55 games. I've never played one and I don't feel ready for them yet. There's plenty to dislike here really - the toughest fields I'm likely find combined with low turnouts means that achieving a good ROI in these is a seriously big ask. However, I do know lots of these have sats to them which I guess allows some weaker players to get in the mix at times. I have the bankroll but I'm far from sure I have the skill roll. If I feel I'm improving as a tourney player, with the results to back that up, then I'll hopefully not be too much of a life nit and take some shots. The same applies to £110's too.
What an necessary number of words to simply say that I think I need to play less tables but with a higher ABI. I suppose you were warned that this was going to be a stream of consciousness, should anyone have actually read this far!
If I act on the above, I'm not really sure where it leaves me with regards to either the status or the purpose of the '500 challenge'. Despite sounding like a bit of a whinger at times, I've really enjoyed throwing myself into MTT grind so it's certainly going to continue as my primary focus for a while yet. I've also enjoyed keeping track of things on the forum and it's definitely been a big factor in keeping me motivated. I'll continue as is for now with the daily updates but I might soon 'ask the audience' as to where it goes from here.
I'll take a much needed night off tonight and then maybe return with a daytime session on Wednesday for a slight change of scenery.
Took a well needed break from the tables. Played 4 early morning cheapies yesterday and a slightly bigger session tonight. The profit juggernaut continues and I'm exactly £1 better off since the last update .
Saw a few familiar pain in the backsides back in action which really made me wish Sky dragged out the Vegas SPT for about 6 months - some people just seem to run so pure! I should hopefully be back for some more mental torture tomorrow.
Took a well needed break from the tables. Played 4 early morning cheapies yesterday and a slightly bigger session tonight. The profit juggernaut continues and I'm exactly £1 better off since the last update .
Saw a few familiar pain in the backsides back in action which really made me wish Sky dragged out the Vegas SPT for about 6 months - some people just seem to run so pure! I should hopefully be back for some more mental torture tomorrow.
Took a well needed break from the tables. Played 4 early morning cheapies yesterday and a slightly bigger session tonight. The profit juggernaut continues and I'm exactly £1 better off since the last update .
Saw a few familiar pain in the backsides back in action which really made me wish Sky dragged out the Vegas SPT for about 6 months - some people just seem to run so pure! I should hopefully be back for some more mental torture tomorrow.
If I act on the above, I'm not really sure where it leaves me with regards to either the status or the purpose of the '500 challenge'. Despite sounding like a bit of a whinger at times, I've really enjoyed throwing myself into MTT grind so it's certainly going to continue as my primary focus for a while yet. I've also enjoyed keeping track of things on the forum and it's definitely been a big factor in keeping me motivated. I'll continue as is for now with the daily updates but I might soon 'ask the audience' as to where it goes from here.
If I'm reading this correctly this means you are moving away from cash and transitioning into MTT's from here on in?
Was going to wait until you broke the £1k profit before commenting on your progress but may as well say it now - *fantastic effort so far and all the more impressive given that you've done it with only a single, tiny tourney win
Opted for a low volume and low stakes session tonight with just 10 played and nothing above an £11 buy-in. It went rather well and I finally have a 'proper' win to feel smug about - I ran like Bates in the Mega Stack to take it down (and thanks to my small group of cheerleaders too!). I also managed a few more small cashes along the way so pretty chuffed all round .
I was going to wait until I'd reached 250 games but, by popular demand, here's Sharky's take on the challenge so far. Just a reminder, its profit figures are lower than the ones I've posted due to how it calculates rebuys. I tend not to need rebuys .
Not sure if I'll be playing tomorrow. I have a school reunion that I'm supposed to be going to but I don't really know if I can be a*sed - it's a long way to travel just to spend an evening listening to people I haven't seen in years drone on about how wonderful their children are .
If I act on the above, I'm not really sure where it leaves me with regards to either the status or the purpose of the '500 challenge'. Despite sounding like a bit of a whinger at times, I've really enjoyed throwing myself into MTT grind so it's certainly going to continue as my primary focus for a while yet. I've also enjoyed keeping track of things on the forum and it's definitely been a big factor in keeping me motivated. I'll continue as is for now with the daily updates but I might soon 'ask the audience' as to where it goes from here.
If I'm reading this correctly this means you are moving away from cash and transitioning into MTT's from here on in?
Was going to wait until you broke the £1k profit before commenting on your progress but may as well say it now - *fantastic effort so far and all the more impressive given that you've done it with only a single, tiny tourney win
gl for the rest of the month and beyond...
*epic fail on the actual challenge though
Thanks Myna.
I have no idea if I'm going to be fully transitioning across to MTT's as my main game. I'm certainly enjoying the tourney grind but a lot of that is probably down to the results being favourable so far. Apparently downswings are a 'thing', so I'll really have to wait to see how I feel after experiencing one of those .
Well done to you too btw - things seem to be looking rosy with you if Sharkscope is to be believed .
Comments
Felt knackered so opted for a very short session with just 8 played and no main or mini included. Very little to report except for another near miss with 3rd place in an £11bh and £10 for a deep run in the rewards freeroll. Tanked everywhere else but those two were just about enough to add another sliver of profit onto the running total. The plan is for an early night so I'm hopefully fresh for a big grind tomorrow.
Good luck all.
MTT's played: 150
MTT's won: 0
Profit/Loss: +£724.96
Winner winner chicken dinner! After managing 19 final tables in the challenge so far, I finally have my first victory. To be fair, it barely counts as an MTT as it was a £5.50 turbo freezeout with just 20 players in total, but I'll still take it. With so few players, the £50 I got for 1st wasn't even enough to surpass the £60 I'd won earlier in the evening for 7th in a £5.50bh
Besides the the two mentioned above, there was little other excitement of note so it's another night with a small profit overall. Including the tiny 3 game session I played on Monday, I've now recorded a profit on 8 out of 11 days played so far, which is pretty sweet. It's times like this I'd love to be able to download my Sky hands into Pokertracker and look at things like my chip ev to get a sense of whether I'm running ridiculously hot or not. Obviously winning 73% of MTT sessions is unsustainable longer term, but I wonder if I had slightly exaggerated expectations of MTT variance before embarking on a concerted push at this format. I guess I do need to bear in mind that average field sizes on Sky are much smaller than elsewhere (I'm averaging 183 entrants per MTT which includes some heavily populated freerolls), and there is a large concentration of bounty hunters too which allows for cashing without a high finishing position. Anyway, I'm sure that's tempted fate nicely!
The only negative was that my volume was a little lower than ideal with 16 played on the night. At this rate I'm unlikely to reach the 500 game target by my deadline of July 5th, but anything remotely close will still make for a worthwhile exercise.
MTT's played: 166
MTT's won: 1
Profit/Loss: +£770.09
In terms of winning sessions % I don't think its a stat I would worry about. It might mean something from a mental game perspective but if you think about it then it really doesn't matter. I think how often you make FTs and how often you convert is a lot more important. Also, part of how often you do this depends on your style. For example, you can have a high ITM % which will probably lead to lots of winning sessions but if you are not turning cashes into FTs and FTs into wins then a high ITM % isn't being converted to a good ROI.
I'm not paying too much attention to the percentage of winning sessions. Many of those small winning nights have been tantamount to break even so it would take a very small shift in my results for those percentages to be the other way round, without it having too major an impact on my overall profit figure. What has surprised me so far are the very few instances of having sessions where I essentially brick almost everything I play. It's an lol sample size of course but the ride has certainly been less bumpy than expected so far.
One possible reason for the above is that I think I've been playing a little nittier than normal, which is mostly a consequence of having more MTT's running than usual - I'm often erring on the side of caution when I have a number of close decisions to make at the same time. I'm undoubtedly playing far from my best but hopefully the more tourney experience I get under my belt, the better I'll be in those kind of spots. 19 FT's from 166 games is probably pretty good. 1 win from 19 FT's is utterly dreadful
Really struggled to find the enthusiasm tonight so only managed to play 9 tourneys. After 6 nights played on the trot I should probably look to take a break but some new found sense of dogged determination (the challenge is doing it's job then!) means I'll probably be back at it tomorrow - especially for the Forum Triple Takedown games as I had a great start in those but missed last Monday.
No more victories to report but Dues the min-cash master was at least able to work his usual magic so there is a another small slice of profit to add to the kitty. The deepest run came in an £11bh where I finished 3rd with a hugely impressive zero heads taken. Money wise, that was topped slightly by a min-cash in the £33bh where thankfully I did manage a few scalps along the way.
MTT's played: 175
MTT's won: 1
Profit/Loss: +£890.02
It's all starting to feel a bit like Groundhog Day. Another evening of flagging motivation saw me stop registering for anything after 20:30 so just 11 more played tonight. Once more there is nothing too thrilling to report on but a couple of deep runs here and there plus the odd bounty makes for a small profit once again.
I have a few things to ponder regarding the future of this challenge but my brain currently feels too much like scrambled eggs to work those things out, let alone put them into words.
MTT's played: 186
MTT's won: 1
Profit/Loss: +£936.80
Nothing beats the calming, soothing wisdom of @MattBates...
Couldn't resist giving this another airing
If you have any paint to go and watch dry, it might be more interesting than reading this.
So, it's looking like there is next to no chance that I'll be hitting the 500 game target by the July 5th deadline. That's ok though. I started this to find out whether significantly increasing my MTT volume would be a good thing for me and poker in general, and I feel like I've learned a lot about myself already.
500 was a fairly arbitrary number based on briefly looking at the Sharkscope leaderboard and volume levels of some of the busiest Sky MTT regs (500 in one month seemed fairly 'light' compared to some). One thing I hadn't realised was quite how much of that volume consisted of satellites, including a high number of lottery sats - they're clearly all a bunch of filthy degens really
One thing I've known for a long time now is that my best results are achieved through optimising my playing conditions. Volume for the sheer sake of it is not a good thing and if I were to go all out to try and hit the 500 target in time, I'd be intentionally putting myself in sub-optimal conditions. By 8:30pm on Monday I was 10 tabling and there were other games starting that I would have preferred to be playing but I didn't register for them as I felt I wouldn't do myself justice in either them, or the games I already had running. I think Sky is one of the toughest sites to mass multi-table - a fast shot clock, no timebanks, no HUD's and everything is 6max. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I definitely need to be structuring my game choices better. Having some random £2.20bh suddenly pop up as table number 10 purely because I'm trying to get through X number of tournaments in a month is not a +EV choice for me.
When it comes to Sky and MTT's, I think multi-tabling breaks down like this for me:
1-4 = A game.
5-6 = B game.
6-9 = C game.
10+ = Random button clicking.
Although I'm confident that my C game is still profitable (in softer line-ups at least), I think I'd be best served by trying to cap things at 6 tables - unless I have a particularly compelling reason to be on more. I also need to remain mindful of the fact that the longer a session goes on, the more my focus and play quality decreases - 5 hours seems to be the point at which I really start to notice a decline (especially if the table count is still high at that point).
I guess this now begs the question of what my play schedule should look like? I think I need to find a good balance between enjoyment, profitability and growth as a player.
Although my edge is probably largest in them, I think pretty much anything under the £5.50 price point has to go (but for the odd exception). They may be some of the softest tournaments you'll find anywhere online but they almost never contain a large enough player pool to provide an even remotely significant score for taking one down. I also find playing against a table full of weak players tedious and it does nothing to stretch me or contribute to my learning curve as a budding MTT-er. They may still get a look in if I'm playing a daytime session though because the schedule as a whole is much lighter at those times.
Freerolls should obviously fall into the same category, but I find those a little harder to ditch completely. For a start, they're free! There's also twice as many of them available this month due to the promo. I've made £72 from the 18 freerolls I've played so far in June which is two main event buy-ins covered, plus a bit of change. I think these can stay for now unless they prevent me registering for other games I deem more worthwhile, or they take up too much of my focus. I may sometimes fire them up and just play like an utter maniac at the start to see if I can quickly build a significant enough stack to make a deep run likely.
Having looked into satellites a little more, I now feel even less inclined to start playing them. Potential returns seem fairly minimal (somewhat understandable given the flat payout structures I guess) and I'm sufficiently bankrolled for anything I'd currently choose to play. I think the screen and head space they'd take up could be used more wisely.
£5.50 bounty hunters are still keepers. There aren't many of them from 7-9pm which seems to be my most hectic time and they often achieve a good turnout so there can be decent money up top. The few £5.50 freezeouts that run never make decent numbers (Mega Stack aside) but my ROI in them is twice that of the same priced bounty hunters, so I think I need to be adding these as often as possible, unless they prevent me adding some bigger games instead.
£11-£22 games need to be given more priority, although they have featured fairly prominently since the first couple of days of the challenge were out of the way. My ROI is smaller in these so they'll make for a bumpier ride, but there are still plenty of punting lunatics in them too. I'm also likely to develop more as a player in these games (especially the £22's) as the greater concentration of decent regs will sharpen my learning curve and, if successful in them, give me the confidence to push higher. Tougher games are fundamentally more enjoyable for me too due to the intelectual challenge they present (as long as I'm not tanking in them indefinitely that is!). The £33 main events are a slam dunk obviously and the Sunday £33bh whilst being noticeably tougher adds another opportunity for a good 'lesson', as well as a potentially big score.
£55 games. I've never played one and I don't feel ready for them yet. There's plenty to dislike here really - the toughest fields I'm likely find combined with low turnouts means that achieving a good ROI in these is a seriously big ask. However, I do know lots of these have sats to them which I guess allows some weaker players to get in the mix at times. I have the bankroll but I'm far from sure I have the skill roll. If I feel I'm improving as a tourney player, with the results to back that up, then I'll hopefully not be too much of a life nit and take some shots. The same applies to £110's too.
What an necessary number of words to simply say that I think I need to play less tables but with a higher ABI. I suppose you were warned that this was going to be a stream of consciousness, should anyone have actually read this far!
If I act on the above, I'm not really sure where it leaves me with regards to either the status or the purpose of the '500 challenge'. Despite sounding like a bit of a whinger at times, I've really enjoyed throwing myself into MTT grind so it's certainly going to continue as my primary focus for a while yet. I've also enjoyed keeping track of things on the forum and it's definitely been a big factor in keeping me motivated. I'll continue as is for now with the daily updates but I might soon 'ask the audience' as to where it goes from here.
I'll take a much needed night off tonight and then maybe return with a daytime session on Wednesday for a slight change of scenery.
Took a well needed break from the tables. Played 4 early morning cheapies yesterday and a slightly bigger session tonight. The profit juggernaut continues and I'm exactly £1 better off since the last update
Saw a few familiar pain in the backsides back in action which really made me wish Sky dragged out the Vegas SPT for about 6 months - some people just seem to run so pure! I should hopefully be back for some more mental torture tomorrow.
MTT's played: 202
MTT's won: 1
Profit/Loss: +£937.80
Was going to wait until you broke the £1k profit before commenting on your progress but may as well say it now - *fantastic effort so far and all the more impressive given that you've done it with only a single, tiny tourney win
gl for the rest of the month and beyond...
*epic fail on the actual challenge though
Opted for a low volume and low stakes session tonight with just 10 played and nothing above an £11 buy-in. It went rather well and I finally have a 'proper' win to feel smug about - I ran like Bates in the Mega Stack to take it down (and thanks to my small group of cheerleaders too!). I also managed a few more small cashes along the way so pretty chuffed all round
I was going to wait until I'd reached 250 games but, by popular demand, here's Sharky's take on the challenge so far. Just a reminder, its profit figures are lower than the ones I've posted due to how it calculates rebuys. I tend not to need rebuys
Not sure if I'll be playing tomorrow. I have a school reunion that I'm supposed to be going to but I don't really know if I can be a*sed - it's a long way to travel just to spend an evening listening to people I haven't seen in years drone on about how wonderful their children are
If I'm not there, I'll be back on it!
MTT's played: 212
MTT's won: 2
Profit/Loss: +£1,188.12
I have no idea if I'm going to be fully transitioning across to MTT's as my main game. I'm certainly enjoying the tourney grind but a lot of that is probably down to the results being favourable so far. Apparently downswings are a 'thing', so I'll really have to wait to see how I feel after experiencing one of those
Well done to you too btw - things seem to be looking rosy with you if Sharkscope is to be believed