When it comes to the certain epidemic, and the NHS gets brought up, it’s no different than any other country that has an epidemic. Your health service will get swamped, as all countries with an epidemic will suffer the same fate. When governments tell the populations not to panic, that’s their job. Just take that with a pinch of salt. And relax.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make in yet another post.
The point that many people are making is that the NHS is in terrible shape after 10 years of the Tories being in charge. Ridiculous staff shortages, and the worst A&E waiting times since records began. This makes an epidemic much more difficult to deal with.
What’s the difference between immigrants crossing the channel or getting trafficked to the U.K, and the masses that want to get into Europe?
I thought this was some sort of joke, and was waiting for you to post the punchline.
If it is a genuine question, it is a silly one.
For years there were camps in Calais, now in Greece. It seems the EU are only interested in folk under their control. And only interested in commerce, not social welfare. They speak with forked tongue.
The EU is only interested in very limited circumstances.
So (for example) there are clear edicts in relation to freedom of movement for EU citizens. But refugees from outside the EU are, and always have been, purely up to individual countries.
It is (IMO) a valid criticism that the EU does little on social welfare. But flouncing off won't help on that score.
So we now with to criticise the EU for too much legislation. but also not enough legislation. We think we should be an independent country, but rely on the EU for legislation. Who will we blame when we have left?
I think you’re taking the Brexit vote far too personally, go with the flow. You’ve no other choice anyway. Apart from emigrating , obv.
I object to the way Boris is dealing with it, and he has no mandate for what he is doing.
Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all. Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais. Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?
It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.
I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.
I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.
It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
Pots and kettles.
The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.
The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.
They seem to be just making a point.
This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.
Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.
The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.
Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.
Calais doesn't have a build up.
There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.
There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.
What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?
Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?
This is the Brexit thread.
Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
Glaringly obvious. Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
We had borders before Brexit. We just didn't look after them very well.
It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.
That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists, gold, diamonds etc.
True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.
When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are. If they publish them , that is.
I don't think you will. How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?
If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
We have always had borders. We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.
I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
You don't matter very much. People running big businesses do care.
Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.
Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
Who will suffer?
One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs. We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.
It only gets a mention every now and then.
I worry about you on times.
You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?
You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.
As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.
Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.
When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.
They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.
Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.
Well how did they get here?
They are not from within the EU.
We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.
So immigration is increasing.
Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.
Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.
There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.
I never suggested I did. I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU. The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago. For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago. Yet they haven't bothered. We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit. Try getting into the US. We could have adopted similar measures. The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders. We are amateurs in comparison. We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.
Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself. So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often. Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.
Don't understand the point.
History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.
Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.
I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
That is completely irrelevant to this argument. There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all. Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais. Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?
It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.
I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.
I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.
It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
Pots and kettles.
The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.
The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.
They seem to be just making a point.
This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.
Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.
The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.
Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.
Calais doesn't have a build up.
There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.
There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.
What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?
Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?
This is the Brexit thread.
Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
Glaringly obvious. Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
We had borders before Brexit. We just didn't look after them very well.
It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.
That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists, gold, diamonds etc.
True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.
When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are. If they publish them , that is.
I don't think you will. How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?
If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
We have always had borders. We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.
I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
You don't matter very much. People running big businesses do care.
Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.
Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
Who will suffer?
One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs. We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.
It only gets a mention every now and then.
I worry about you on times.
You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?
You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.
As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.
Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.
When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.
They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.
Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.
Well how did they get here?
They are not from within the EU.
We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.
So immigration is increasing.
Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.
Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.
There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.
I never suggested I did. I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU. The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago. For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago. Yet they haven't bothered. We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit. Try getting into the US. We could have adopted similar measures. The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders. We are amateurs in comparison. We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.
Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself. So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often. Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.
Don't understand the point.
History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.
Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.
I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
That is completely irrelevant to this argument. There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
I think that you are waiting for some tremendous thriving economy to emerge from negotiations. I don’t think everybody in the U.K. thinks that they are going to be greatly better off after Brexit is done, if it ever gets done. You put up quotes from Boris, yet you know he lies a lot. I can’t see the point in doing that, it’s hardly a relevation.
Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all. Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais. Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?
It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.
I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.
I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.
It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
Pots and kettles.
The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.
The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.
They seem to be just making a point.
This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.
Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.
The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.
Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.
Calais doesn't have a build up.
There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.
There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.
What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?
Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?
This is the Brexit thread.
Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
Glaringly obvious. Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
We had borders before Brexit. We just didn't look after them very well.
It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.
That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists, gold, diamonds etc.
True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.
When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are. If they publish them , that is.
I don't think you will. How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?
If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
We have always had borders. We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.
I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
You don't matter very much. People running big businesses do care.
Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.
Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
Who will suffer?
One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs. We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.
It only gets a mention every now and then.
I worry about you on times.
You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?
You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.
As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.
Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.
When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.
They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.
Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.
Well how did they get here?
They are not from within the EU.
We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.
So immigration is increasing.
Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.
Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.
There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.
I never suggested I did. I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU. The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago. For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago. Yet they haven't bothered. We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit. Try getting into the US. We could have adopted similar measures. The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders. We are amateurs in comparison. We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.
Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself. So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often. Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.
Don't understand the point.
History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.
Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.
I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
That is completely irrelevant to this argument. There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
The U.K. voted out. Some businesses will suffer. Some in time might do better😱
When it comes to the certain epidemic, and the NHS gets brought up, it’s no different than any other country that has an epidemic. Your health service will get swamped, as all countries with an epidemic will suffer the same fate. When governments tell the populations not to panic, that’s their job. Just take that with a pinch of salt. And relax.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make in yet another post.
The point that many people are making is that the NHS is in terrible shape after 10 years of the Tories being in charge. Ridiculous staff shortages, and the worst A&E waiting times since records began. This makes an epidemic much more difficult to deal with.
Every country that has an epidemic will have their health service under tremendous pressure. China have plenty of hospitals,but still couldn’t cope. I’m guessing you would like to be seen straight away when going to A+E, or to have an operation when you like. How much would that cost, and what are you ideas of achieving that scenario? Not forgetting all the other health services of course.
The crisis exacerbated by the US pulling out from middle eastern conflicts. And with certain ties from Europe. Which then allows Russia to flex their muscles, standard practice.
You probably think Tony Blair is to blame.
Try to think Brexit.
There’s not much to say on Brexit, as the details of negotiations are with the negotiators. I’m not into cartoons or hearsay. I’ll get me coat.👋
There is plenty going on.
EU tells UK to respect its independence
Britain must respect the EU's "independence" and accept that the bloc has its own red-lines in trade talks, the bloc's chief negotiator has warned Boris Johnson. Michel Barnier was speaking in Brussels at the close of the first round of Brexit trade negotiations, where he warned that "very, very difficult" differences were emerging between both sides with the clock ticking down. "Let’s avoid any misunderstandings: the UK has spent a lot of time this week insisting on its independence: ladies and gentlemen, nobody contests the UK’s independence. We also ask the UK to respect our own independence," Mr Barnier said. "Of course, we respect the UK’s sovereignty, and just as the UK sets its own conditions for opening up its market, the EU sets its own conditions for opening up its markets for goods and services. The real question is not about our reciprocal independence: the real question is what we do with our respective independence. "Our common challenge now is as two independent entities to agree together on ground rules that makes it possible for us to cooperate, to trade, and to travel."
Giving a review of the first week's talks, the chief negotiator said the UK was refusing to sign a commitment to stay in the European Convention on Human Rights, as well as rejecting an agreement tying it to "high standards" for labour, environmental, and state aid regulations.
"The United Kingdom informs us that they do not wish to commit formally to applying the European Convention on Human Rights," Mr Barnier said.
On the "level playingfield" for regulations, Mr Barnier said the UK said it wanted to maintain high standards, but would not legally commit to them.
"Whilst we agree on preserving high standards, my question is why not commit to them formally? It's a question of trust," he said.
Both sides in negotiations keenly aware that talks, which involve between 200 and 300 officials, could be hit by the ongoing coronavirus outbreak. Asked whether talks would definitely continue Mr Barnier said he did not want to "commit to anything", but said "there's no ban on meetings". "We’re talking maximum 200 people in one room... We will be taking all necessary precautions so that we can continue," he said. A senior EU official involved in negotiations downplayed the suggestion there could be an effect: "We haven't discussed the possible measures to take with the British. We'll see how the situation will evolve."
Mr Barnier said he thought the degree of change that Brexit would bring on 1 January 2021, when the transition period ends, has been "very much underestimated". He added that the UK could still extend the transition period if it decided too – though Boris Johnson has ruled out doing so.
I’ll finish with what a good strategy by Erdogan.👏 With sky reporters reporting inside Idlib for a while now, and the world watches and does nothing,that was a mighty fine move. Well thought out. So Idlib gets flattened, more refugees enter Turkey. Then after a while you send them back to nothing?
The outbreak also forms the inspiration for artist Bob Moran's latest piece in the Telegraph. He depicts Chancellor Rishi Sunak staring forlornly at an airport departure board, with flights to "Budget Boomtown", "Boris Bounceville" and "Infrastructure Utopia" all delayed.
Boris Johnson close to breaching 100-day promise on social care talks, warn councils Local Government Association warn town halls are facing £6.5bn funding gap
Brexit's threat to the Union - why it could be the end of the UK The political reality is that the United Kingdom is on a shoogly peg - and Brexit may be catalyst which breaks up the country
Boris Johnson has spoken about the “awesome foursome” of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. He has even made up a job for himself as "Minister for the Union".
The politics of the different parts of the UK seem to be diverging - and not exclusively around the question of Brexit or if the UK should stay united. In England, the Conservatives are by far the biggest party. In Wales, despite losing momentum Labour take home a majority of the seats that are up for grabs, and form the government in Cardiff Bay.
The Scottish National Party dominate in Scotland in elections to both Holyrood and Westminster. Nothern Ireland's electoral politics is a little less simple, but beyond the deep unionist and nationalist divide are a generation looking for something different from their politicians. The situation means that the politics of this island may be set to change in big ways in the coming years.
What will happen to England if the UK breaks up? No one knows for sure. The Westminster Parliament would become an English one but there would still, in theory, be a UK monarchy. It is debatable whether the nations and regions would continue to have a common defence and diplomatic network.
Our global position as an atomic power would be put at risk. The nuclear fleet is based in Faslane, Scotland, and there is no suitable English port to house it. The UK’s international status would diminish, threatening our seat on the UN security council. A break-up could spark calls for greater independence in England’s regions. It would cause a headache for Labour, which has relied on its support in Scotland and Wales to win general elections.
Why Boris Johnson's Brexit US trade deal demands could leave the UK worse off
Boris Johnson's post-Brexit trade plans to cuddle up to America while distancing the UK from the EU could see us "lose more than we gain", Labour has warned. The UK spelled out its hopes for a free trade deal with Washington in a 184-page document.
But the scale of the negotiations appears much less ambitious than Downing Street or Donald Trump have previously claimed. Government stats today showed that the best-case scenario for a trade deal with the US would grow the UK economy by just 0.16%. Meanwhile, talks between the EU and UK got underway on our future relationship with Brussels, with British officials committed to obtaining a Canada-style deal with the EU. Previous Treasury analysis suggested could shrink the UK economy by 4.9%.
Publishing their negotiating strategy for talks with the US, the government said the £3.4 billion yearly increase outlined in the document happens in the best-case scenario where the UK eliminates import tariffs with the States.
Critics pointed towards estimates of a potentially larger hit to the economy caused by Brexit , and warned the blow will "pale in comparison to the benefits".
Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all. Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais. Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?
It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.
I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.
I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.
It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
Pots and kettles.
The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.
The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.
They seem to be just making a point.
This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.
Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.
The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.
Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.
Calais doesn't have a build up.
There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.
There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.
What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?
Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?
This is the Brexit thread.
Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
Glaringly obvious. Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
We had borders before Brexit. We just didn't look after them very well.
It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.
That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists, gold, diamonds etc.
True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.
When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are. If they publish them , that is.
I don't think you will. How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?
If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
We have always had borders. We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.
I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
You don't matter very much. People running big businesses do care.
Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.
Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
Who will suffer?
One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs. We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.
It only gets a mention every now and then.
I worry about you on times.
You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?
You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.
As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.
Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.
When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.
They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.
Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.
Well how did they get here?
They are not from within the EU.
We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.
So immigration is increasing.
Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.
Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.
There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.
I never suggested I did. I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU. The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago. For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago. Yet they haven't bothered. We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit. Try getting into the US. We could have adopted similar measures. The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders. We are amateurs in comparison. We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.
Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself. So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often. Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.
Don't understand the point.
History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.
Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.
I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
That is completely irrelevant to this argument. There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
I think that you are waiting for some tremendous thriving economy to emerge from negotiations. I don’t think everybody in the UIt .K. thinks that they are going to be greatly better off after Brexit is done, if it ever gets done. You put up quotes from Boris, yet you know he lies a lot. I can’t see the point in doing that, it’s hardly a relevation.
Did you mean revelation?
Having a liar for a PM is nothing to be proud of.
Its a disgrace.
You completely miss the point yet again.
I am not sure whether you do it on purpose.
This is a fact.
It is absolutely clear that if we wish to get a good deal from the EU, and do the least damage to our economy, we would have to remain closely aligned. The more we diverge, the more damage will be caused to our economy. Boris wants to completely diverge. He has no mandate for this. It is an act of self harm.
Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all. Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais. Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?
It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.
I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.
I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.
It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
Pots and kettles.
The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.
The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.
They seem to be just making a point.
This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.
Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.
The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.
Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.
Calais doesn't have a build up.
There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.
There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.
What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?
Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?
This is the Brexit thread.
Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
Glaringly obvious. Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
We had borders before Brexit. We just didn't look after them very well.
It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.
That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists, gold, diamonds etc.
True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.
When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are. If they publish them , that is.
I don't think you will. How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?
If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
We have always had borders. We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.
I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
You don't matter very much. People running big businesses do care.
Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.
Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
Who will suffer?
One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs. We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.
It only gets a mention every now and then.
I worry about you on times.
You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?
You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.
As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.
Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.
When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.
They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.
Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.
Well how did they get here?
They are not from within the EU.
We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.
So immigration is increasing.
Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.
Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.
There’s no possible way you could know the outcome of a far stronger border, more checking, more bodies available.
I never suggested I did. I was just making the point that nothing that is occurring now is likely to stop just because we will leave the EU. The other point I was making is that some of the measures that we are being forced into because we are leaving, could have been implemented long ago. For instance, had the Government been really concerned about illegal immigration, drug, and people smuggling, etc, they could have beefed up the borders long ago. Yet they haven't bothered. We are being forced into increasing staffing levels massively just to process the increased paperwork because of Brexit. Try getting into the US. We could have adopted similar measures. The US have a trade deal with Mexico, but have the latest technology stopping smuggling etc deployed at their borders. We are amateurs in comparison. We will be employing extra people just to deal with the implementation of millions of Customs Declarations etc.
Personally I’ve always been self employed, looked after myself. So I struggle to cope with the ‘ job for life’ mob, that tend to get bailed out so often. Goes for individual businesses too.Its a jungle out there for some.
Don't understand the point.
History teaches that nearly all people who had a buisness that failed, or had lost their job in the past, went out a started again or got another job.Its surprising how many businesses fail per year,but life goes on.So I’m not bothered about each individual at all.
Boris is clearly making decisions that will harm businesses. This is a first.
I’ve said somewhere else, there are a lot of businesses that barely turn a profit, if at all, and are saddled with debt.Theyre not really viable imo,we’ll see in the coming months.
That is completely irrelevant to this argument. There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
The U.K. voted out. Some businesses will suffer. Some in time might do better😱
We can be out, but still closely aligned.
Boris has chosen to cause more suffering rather than less.
When it comes to the certain epidemic, and the NHS gets brought up, it’s no different than any other country that has an epidemic. Your health service will get swamped, as all countries with an epidemic will suffer the same fate. When governments tell the populations not to panic, that’s their job. Just take that with a pinch of salt. And relax.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make in yet another post.
The point that many people are making is that the NHS is in terrible shape after 10 years of the Tories being in charge. Ridiculous staff shortages, and the worst A&E waiting times since records began. This makes an epidemic much more difficult to deal with.
Every country that has an epidemic will have their health service under tremendous pressure. China have plenty of hospitals,but still couldn’t cope. I’m guessing you would like to be seen straight away when going to A+E, or to have an operation when you like. How much would that cost, and what are you ideas of achieving that scenario? Not forgetting all the other health services of course.
You have a habit of missing the point.
Prior to the epidemic the NHS have the worst A&E figures since records began.
Comments
The point that many people are making is that the NHS is in terrible shape after 10 years of the Tories being in charge.
Ridiculous staff shortages, and the worst A&E waiting times since records began.
This makes an epidemic much more difficult to deal with.
There is a huge difference between a business failing because they weren't very good, and one that fails because of decisions made by the PM, that could have been avoided.
Who would your choice be for PM if you had the choice of the whole house?
I don’t think everybody in the U.K. thinks that they are going to be greatly better off after Brexit is done, if it ever gets done.
You put up quotes from Boris, yet you know he lies a lot. I can’t see the point in doing that, it’s hardly a relevation.
Some businesses will suffer. Some in time might do better😱
China have plenty of hospitals,but still couldn’t cope.
I’m guessing you would like to be seen straight away when going to A+E, or to have an operation when you like. How much would that cost, and what are you ideas of achieving that scenario?
Not forgetting all the other health services of course.
With sky reporters reporting inside Idlib for a while now, and the world watches and does nothing,that was a mighty fine move. Well thought out.
So Idlib gets flattened, more refugees enter Turkey.
Then after a while you send them back to nothing?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152
Boris Johnson close to breaching 100-day promise on social care talks, warn councils
Local Government Association warn town halls are facing £6.5bn funding gap
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-social-care-talks-government-council-deadline-a9380236.html
Brexit's threat to the Union - why it could be the end of the UK
The political reality is that the United Kingdom is on a shoogly peg - and Brexit may be catalyst which breaks up the country
Boris Johnson has spoken about the “awesome foursome” of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
He has even made up a job for himself as "Minister for the Union".
The politics of the different parts of the UK seem to be diverging - and not exclusively around the question of Brexit or if the UK should stay united.
In England, the Conservatives are by far the biggest party.
In Wales, despite losing momentum Labour take home a majority of the seats that are up for grabs, and form the government in Cardiff Bay.
The Scottish National Party dominate in Scotland in elections to both Holyrood and Westminster.
Nothern Ireland's electoral politics is a little less simple, but beyond the deep unionist and nationalist divide are a generation looking for something different from their politicians.
The situation means that the politics of this island may be set to change in big ways in the coming years.
What will happen to England if the UK breaks up?
No one knows for sure. The Westminster Parliament would become an English one but there would still, in theory, be a UK monarchy.
It is debatable whether the nations and regions would continue to have a common defence and diplomatic network.
Our global position as an atomic power would be put at risk. The nuclear fleet is based in Faslane, Scotland, and there is no suitable English port to house it.
The UK’s international status would diminish, threatening our seat on the UN security council.
A break-up could spark calls for greater independence in England’s regions. It would cause a headache for Labour, which has relied on its support in Scotland and Wales to win general elections.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexits-threat-union-could-end-21398015
Why Boris Johnson's Brexit US trade deal demands could leave the UK worse off
Boris Johnson's post-Brexit trade plans to cuddle up to America while distancing the UK from the EU could see us "lose more than we gain", Labour has warned.
The UK spelled out its hopes for a free trade deal with Washington in a 184-page document.
But the scale of the negotiations appears much less ambitious than Downing Street or Donald Trump have previously claimed.
Government stats today showed that the best-case scenario for a trade deal with the US would grow the UK economy by just 0.16%.
Meanwhile, talks between the EU and UK got underway on our future relationship with Brussels, with British officials committed to obtaining a Canada-style deal with the EU.
Previous Treasury analysis suggested could shrink the UK economy by 4.9%.
Publishing their negotiating strategy for talks with the US, the government said the £3.4 billion yearly increase outlined in the document happens in the best-case scenario where the UK eliminates import tariffs with the States.
Critics pointed towards estimates of a potentially larger hit to the economy caused by Brexit , and warned the blow will "pale in comparison to the benefits".
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-brexit-trade-deal-21618508
Having a liar for a PM is nothing to be proud of.
Its a disgrace.
You completely miss the point yet again.
I am not sure whether you do it on purpose.
This is a fact.
It is absolutely clear that if we wish to get a good deal from the EU, and do the least damage to our economy, we would have to remain closely aligned.
The more we diverge, the more damage will be caused to our economy.
Boris wants to completely diverge.
He has no mandate for this.
It is an act of self harm.
Boris has chosen to cause more suffering rather than less.
Prior to the epidemic the NHS have the worst A&E figures since records began.
Record numbers are waiting in excess of 12 hours.