And we get down to final 83... All in preflop, i see what im up against and i say out loud 'well my hands gonna come last here 100%'.... didnt let me down! Flop bad enough, but just no 2 and and i will still do ok out the hand... oh there it is.....
If only we could bet on obvious outcomes. You know, i see these preflop cards turned over live, i have no sense of doom like an online deck....
Surely, surely you know where im coming from .....
Most amusing 'thread' i have read in years! That hand you posted was probably one of the worst starting hands....and Hellisio one of the best. You've said at least 7 times that hellisio had no high hand..A10 of hearts is probably a top 10% high hand with a really strong low hand too! I've played a few plo8 games and HU i would play exactly 100% the way hellisio played it.
That's not the amusing bit though, you've stated that you have withdrawn £500 from playing £1 games...if this is true which i don't dispute, your roi must be humongous, and the amount of games must be in the 10's of thousands. If this is fairly close to being accurate..i will make you an offer, i'll give you £1,000 to 1p of yours that at some point you've hit a nut straight on the flop and that it has held for at least a chop.
It's a sad state of affairs when selective memory takes over a persons whole outlook on the great game of plo8...You are obviously a capable player at micro stakes..my advice is IF you are making hundreds of pounds, keep it really quiet and stop babbling rubbish on a thread which is completely nonsensical.
P.S If the hand shown was a typical hand that you go nuts with...can we have a game?
Whizzy, great to hear from you, how are you mate? I so miss the fun we used to have in the PLO8 DYM's. Great fun, terrific memories.
I still play Big O MTT's on another site, and am just back from Vegas where I played the $1,500 WSOP Omaha Mix. I also played a bunch of Limit 8 or Better Cash over at The Orleans. Never had so much fun.
There's an SPT due soon, be great if you could come along.
Most amusing 'thread' i have read in years! That hand you posted was probably one of the worst starting hands....and Hellisio one of the best. You've said at least 7 times that hellisio had no high hand..A10 of hearts is probably a top 10% high hand with a really strong low hand too! I've played a few plo8 games and HU i would play exactly 100% the way hellisio played it.
That's not the amusing bit though, you've stated that you have withdrawn £500 from playing £1 games...if this is true which i don't dispute, your roi must be humongous, and the amount of games must be in the 10's of thousands. If this is fairly close to being accurate..i will make you an offer, i'll give you £1,000 to 1p of yours that at some point you've hit a nut straight on the flop and that it has held for at least a chop.
It's a sad state of affairs when selective memory takes over a persons whole outlook on the great game of plo8...You are obviously a capable player at micro stakes..my advice is IF you are making hundreds of pounds, keep it really quiet and stop babbling rubbish on a thread which is completely nonsensical.
P.S If the hand shown was a typical hand that you go nuts with...can we have a game?
I think if you are going to rip the post apart like this, you may want perhaps look at the hand and the reasoning a tad more closely before replying!
You start by saying i was wrong by saying he had no high hand. The raising and reraising started on the flop, not preflop. He had no high hand when wanting the money in on the flop. Fact.
Of course he had a premium starting hand. But its like saying a raise and reraise all in on a flop of AKQ with JJ is great stuff.....
You are looking at the hand like @Essexphil does. He looks at the 2 starting hands, he looks at the betting and thats it. You are not considering past plays, notes, etc and the fact you dont have the luxury of being able see your opponents hand. I knew Helissio had A2 and there was a good chance that would be it without a further low card in his hand. In that scenario, im more on a freeroll than him.
This is £1 heads up poker, not the WSOP or even level EssexPhil plays at. You could look at one of my hands and i may have As 3s Qc Kc on a board of 6s 5s 4d 7d 8d and my opponent wants all in. If im at the WSOP, im folding my hand. On here, if im playing a solid reg im folding. Im on a hiding to nothing. However, if my notes say my opponent who i dont remember only plays hi hands and totally ignores the low (alot do at £1, as they have wandered in without knowing game), i will call.
If you are just looking at this hand as an outsider, you would just say wow TheWaddy is a donk. There is much more to hands than whats just black and white and im disappointed EssexPhil does this.
If i have ever scooped or chopped when flopping the nut straight, i honestly dont remember it. The reason i started logging it, was purely as i had noticed a huge amount in order for me to think hang on a minute, lets look at this. If i have had anything back 2/3 times in hundreds, the maths is still not there.
I have withdrawn from Sky on other occasions, i rarely end the day down, though this last week has been one of those rare occasions. The profit is also bolsted from the £1000 daily freeroll. I have gone £1, £3, £30 this week for example.
But if you are amused by things you dont read properly, decipher in an EssexPhil type manner and refuse to believe a profit can be made from £1 tourns, then im happy to have made your day!
If you believe you know how I think better than I do, then you are clearly overrating your ability. For the avoidance of doubt:-
1. In some senses, a lot of your play is, objectively speaking, bad 2. A lot of that play can be justified subjectively. You are playing at microstakes. Your opponents' ranges are going to be wider, and your post-flop experience/advantage is going to be greater. Which will make "wrong" plays at higher stakes (or against other players) correct ones in your position 3. Where we fundamentally disagree is this. You believe that it is the deck stopping you winning more than you do. Whereas I (and pretty much everyone else) believes that your win rate is completely in line with the natural order of things 4. You claim that you never win any part of a hand when you flop the nut straight. You seriously believe that you never win any part of a hand when you hold 45xx on a A23x flop? Or 35xx/34xx/32xx/24xx/25xx when you flop a wheel?
As you know **** well, if im flopping a wheel. i am gettin something back regardless. When i talk about nut straight, im talking about it qualifying as a high hand only. You know this, but have said it twice now. Before you say i didnt say this, if you seriously think i 100% claim i get nothing back from flopped wheels, you shouldnt be winding up mentally challenged people!
NB What i will say is if you flop a wheel, another thing that happens is that a different wheel card will come on turn or river. Another highly noticeable thing. Subtle things in the deck to protect poor players.
How on earth are you claiming 'alot' of my play is bad??? I play to my notes, simple as. You dont have access to them, you comment on hands purely to what we both actually held, not what i perceived it to be. Its madness.
If i put an example up, it is for demonstrating a specific scenario, not for the play to be taken apart like a autopsy on optimum play. I am not claiming its unlucky, correct play, (though it may be, if notes say it is) or anything you guys jump on. In this case i was just saying a nut high straight does not hold ever, not that it was amazing play, unlucky or anything else the replies were.
But saying he had this and you had that, i think we can all do that afterwards.
If you flop the nut straight in a heads up Omaha hi lo game, i have never seen it win any part of the pot in hundreds of the same situation.
EssexPhil will say its not unusual, its only like 20,000-1 and the like.
I would class random of being something that there would be a variety of outcomes, but when there is only ever one, it kind of reveals thats its written that way.
It can not be defended or passed off as 'unusually unlucky'. There is only ever one outcome."
This is what you said. It is rubbish. You know it is rubbish. But you cannot admit that.
And yet you keep trying to move the goalposts.
You are desperately trying to argue on the bits where I actually agree with you. While steadfastly trying to ignore the bits where you are talking nonsense.
You are using made-up "facts" to "prove" your theory that you should win at a far higher %age than every other player on this site. Claiming that the deck is manipulated.
Be brave enough. Just say it. And get banned.
Or don't. Which seems distinctly preferable from your perspective.
Mr Waddy please stop now because it's becoming embarrassing to say the least.
Almost every post you make on whichever thread you choose to put it on claims pretty much the same thing. That Sky Poker is in some way corrupt.
Maybe, just maybe the reason for so much hostility is that we don't believe it is and in my case I don't particularly care.
I believe from others that you are a profitable player at the form of poker you play so perhaps your time could be better spent increasing your wealth, after all if you know what's going to happen before the event then you surely can't lose. Oh that I should have that ability with sports trading.
If you believe so strongly then come out publicly and stand behind your convictions, surely in the current climate you would have both airtime and column inches to put forth your accusations.
As I am sure you know, the definition of lunacy is the repetition of the same course of action but with the expectation of differing results.
You are just repeating the same thing over and over and over ad infinitum.
If you haven't convinced people by now, you really aint gonna.
i kinda have to repeat myself because, with like yourself again here saying 'if you know what is going to happen before the event, you surely cant lose', this has been covered sooooo many times its unreal.
When so many people post this kind of response without fully understanding the content they are replying on, despite it being answered soooo many times.... yes it does get tedious i agree.
But all you are REALLY saying is that Sky Poker is corrupt.
Is that even possible, perhaps but then Stoke might win the Premier league, Castleford the S.L. Grand Final, Me the WSOP Main Event, Giants the Superbowl, Mets the World Series, Essendon the AFL Grand Final and British riders win both Moto GP and WSB Championships.
And then we can all go ice skating with The devil coz H3ll will have frozen over.
Hi Tikay, Apologies i have no idea how to copy and paste, i hope you still get this!
Without doubt those days of plo8 dyms and the banter were great times! It used to get me through a working day with something to look forward to. Only me and Eon left now and occasionally mmmmchips. We both still enjoy it and over the years i have improved to be within touching distance of the G.O.A.T lol.
As you know i'm not much of a poster on here, but i am a prolific reader and i follow all the big Sky stories and appreciate all the work you do for players, you have an amazing grass roots understanding of ordinary players..Who else would go to all the trouble of sorting out a missing free roll when they had just returned from Vegas? Wonderful!!
Sadly as far as Spt's are concerned it's just not possible at the moment. I took early retirement 6 years ago to be a full time carer for my partner. She has multiple illnesses including Parkinsons and chronic arthritis, and as a result she hates me being away overnight..so i don't bother!!
All this said it doesn't stop me hankering to go to Vegas or to one day attend an Spt. i'll let you know if one day it becomes possible.
But all you are REALLY saying is that Sky Poker is corrupt.
Is that even possible, perhaps but then Stoke might win the Premier league, Castleford the S.L. Grand Final, Me the WSOP Main Event, Giants the Superbowl, Mets the World Series, Essendon the AFL Grand Final and British riders win both Moto GP and WSB Championships.
And then we can all go ice skating with The devil coz H3ll will have frozen over.
I am NOT saying its corrupt, that is a ridiculous word to use!
They are business and with all businesses their aim is to maximise profit and push what is acceptable to the limits to make gains. Again im repeating myself.
As it stands, regulation is so lapse with those regulating proven to have no knowledge of how poker works.... i dont blame any poker sites doing what they are doing. It is the fault of the so called regulators, who are out of their depth, misunderstanding poker and can not possibly regulate something they dont understand.
I find it amusing that if this was ever proven that you people think there would be this national outrage and sites being shut down. There is only a few thousand players out of 58m in the country that even care, sites have multiple other things to bet on in the same place that is total luck and that have accepted manipulated outcomes by the site....
The general public would not understand the difference, they would just think i thought it was all the same thing, it would not be news to them. And as the gambling commission do not look at anything, including the RNG, who is ever going to care enough to find out anyway.....
Corruption.... wow dont me laugh. Its just a company going about their business.
I wish you could have seen the game i have just played against ClicktoWin... seriously.... the combined outcomes would have been millions and millions to one. It was just insane. Not possible, simple as.
Hi @TheWaddy I can understand your frustrations, poker can seem so ridiculous at times.
Having said that, reading through your posts you seem to vigorously state that something is amiss with the rng, as according to your recollections the maths aren’t right, and Sky is exploiting this to maximise profits.
Stating these things is akin to saying the site is bent ( dodgy)
The gambling commission don’t really need to know much about poker ( imo) as long as sites use a regulated RNG ( if regulated is the right word)
You make a decent profit, well done on that.
Hope you can come to the sensible conclusion that sky isn’t out to get you, or scam you out of possible winnings.
I struggle to see that anyone, other than seasoned players, which is a tiny amount of people in a population, would find sites 'dodgy' because of this.
Everyone else (ie non seasoned players, the population in general) would consider any form of gambling total luck and think there is an accepted house edge to make money in any online games, slots, bingo, blackjack, etc.
Even i accept this is the way it is. If i play slots, i know any winnings will be their decision and not my skill or luck. So I adapt my poker game to allow for this.
I have no gripe that they do this per se, i accept they do what they have to to maximise profit, as any business.
My only gripe is there should be a disclaimer and it be common knowledge... and thats it. The lies and the threats to have to believe in something that maths is saying isnt right, i find not acceptable.
And when their opening line in defence of the deck is a proven total lie (we would not financially benefit from having a deck that is not random ....when clearly they would as it would maintain customers numbers and increase rake), this does not help matters.
I think even the defenders of the sites would say such an untrue line is not the best idea when attempting to convince players who have questioned things.
I repeat, this is not a 'scam', 'dodgy', 'bent', 'corrupt' in my eyes, all your words, not mine. Its business and as it stands acceptable in the current way its being regulated.
Comments
If only we could bet on obvious outcomes. You know, i see these preflop cards turned over live, i have no sense of doom like an online deck....
Surely, surely you know where im coming from .....
That's not the amusing bit though, you've stated that you have withdrawn £500 from playing £1 games...if this is true which i don't dispute, your roi must be humongous, and the amount of games must be in the 10's of thousands. If this is fairly close to being accurate..i will make you an offer, i'll give you £1,000 to 1p of yours that at some point you've hit a nut straight on the flop and that it has held for at least a chop.
It's a sad state of affairs when selective memory takes over a persons whole outlook on the great game of plo8...You are obviously a capable player at micro stakes..my advice is IF you are making hundreds of pounds, keep it really quiet and stop babbling rubbish on a thread which is completely nonsensical.
P.S If the hand shown was a typical hand that you go nuts with...can we have a game?
@Whizzewky
Whizzy, great to hear from you, how are you mate? I so miss the fun we used to have in the PLO8 DYM's. Great fun, terrific memories.
I still play Big O MTT's on another site, and am just back from Vegas where I played the $1,500 WSOP Omaha Mix. I also played a bunch of Limit 8 or Better Cash over at The Orleans. Never had so much fun.
There's an SPT due soon, be great if you could come along.
You start by saying i was wrong by saying he had no high hand. The raising and reraising started on the flop, not preflop. He had no high hand when wanting the money in on the flop. Fact.
Of course he had a premium starting hand. But its like saying a raise and reraise all in on a flop of AKQ with JJ is great stuff.....
You are looking at the hand like @Essexphil does. He looks at the 2 starting hands, he looks at the betting and thats it. You are not considering past plays, notes, etc and the fact you dont have the luxury of being able see your opponents hand. I knew Helissio had A2 and there was a good chance that would be it without a further low card in his hand. In that scenario, im more on a freeroll than him.
This is £1 heads up poker, not the WSOP or even level EssexPhil plays at. You could look at one of my hands and i may have As 3s Qc Kc on a board of 6s 5s 4d 7d 8d and my opponent wants all in. If im at the WSOP, im folding my hand. On here, if im playing a solid reg im folding. Im on a hiding to nothing. However, if my notes say my opponent who i dont remember only plays hi hands and totally ignores the low (alot do at £1, as they have wandered in without knowing game), i will call.
If you are just looking at this hand as an outsider, you would just say wow TheWaddy is a donk. There is much more to hands than whats just black and white and im disappointed EssexPhil does this.
If i have ever scooped or chopped when flopping the nut straight, i honestly dont remember it. The reason i started logging it, was purely as i had noticed a huge amount in order for me to think hang on a minute, lets look at this. If i have had anything back 2/3 times in hundreds, the maths is still not there.
I have withdrawn from Sky on other occasions, i rarely end the day down, though this last week has been one of those rare occasions. The profit is also bolsted from the £1000 daily freeroll. I have gone £1, £3, £30 this week for example.
But if you are amused by things you dont read properly, decipher in an EssexPhil type manner and refuse to believe a profit can be made from £1 tourns, then im happy to have made your day!
1. In some senses, a lot of your play is, objectively speaking, bad
2. A lot of that play can be justified subjectively. You are playing at microstakes. Your opponents' ranges are going to be wider, and your post-flop experience/advantage is going to be greater. Which will make "wrong" plays at higher stakes (or against other players) correct ones in your position
3. Where we fundamentally disagree is this. You believe that it is the deck stopping you winning more than you do. Whereas I (and pretty much everyone else) believes that your win rate is completely in line with the natural order of things
4. You claim that you never win any part of a hand when you flop the nut straight. You seriously believe that you never win any part of a hand when you hold 45xx on a A23x flop? Or 35xx/34xx/32xx/24xx/25xx when you flop a wheel?
NB What i will say is if you flop a wheel, another thing that happens is that a different wheel card will come on turn or river. Another highly noticeable thing. Subtle things in the deck to protect poor players.
How on earth are you claiming 'alot' of my play is bad??? I play to my notes, simple as. You dont have access to them, you comment on hands purely to what we both actually held, not what i perceived it to be. Its madness.
If i put an example up, it is for demonstrating a specific scenario, not for the play to be taken apart like a autopsy on optimum play. I am not claiming its unlucky, correct play, (though it may be, if notes say it is) or anything you guys jump on. In this case i was just saying a nut high straight does not hold ever, not that it was amazing play, unlucky or anything else the replies were.
But saying he had this and you had that, i think we can all do that afterwards.
"We have a totally random deck right?
If you flop the nut straight in a heads up Omaha hi lo game, i have never seen it win any part of the pot in hundreds of the same situation.
EssexPhil will say its not unusual, its only like 20,000-1 and the like.
I would class random of being something that there would be a variety of outcomes, but when there is only ever one, it kind of reveals thats its written that way.
It can not be defended or passed off as 'unusually unlucky'. There is only ever one outcome."
This is what you said. It is rubbish. You know it is rubbish. But you cannot admit that.
And yet you keep trying to move the goalposts.
You are desperately trying to argue on the bits where I actually agree with you.
While steadfastly trying to ignore the bits where you are talking nonsense.
You are using made-up "facts" to "prove" your theory that you should win at a far higher %age than every other player on this site. Claiming that the deck is manipulated.
Be brave enough. Just say it. And get banned.
Or don't. Which seems distinctly preferable from your perspective.
Almost every post you make on whichever thread you choose to put it on claims pretty much the same thing. That Sky Poker is in some way corrupt.
Maybe, just maybe the reason for so much hostility is that we don't believe it is and in my case I don't particularly care.
I believe from others that you are a profitable player at the form of poker you play so perhaps your time could be better spent increasing your wealth, after all if you know what's going to happen before the event then you surely can't lose. Oh that I should have that ability with sports trading.
If you believe so strongly then come out publicly and stand behind your convictions, surely in the current climate you would have both airtime and column inches to put forth your accusations.
As I am sure you know, the definition of lunacy is the repetition of the same course of action but with the expectation of differing results.
You are just repeating the same thing over and over and over ad infinitum.
If you haven't convinced people by now, you really aint gonna.
When so many people post this kind of response without fully understanding the content they are replying on, despite it being answered soooo many times.... yes it does get tedious i agree.
Is that even possible, perhaps but then Stoke might win the Premier league, Castleford the S.L. Grand Final, Me the WSOP Main Event, Giants the Superbowl, Mets the World Series, Essendon the AFL Grand Final and British riders win both Moto GP and WSB Championships.
And then we can all go ice skating with The devil coz H3ll will have frozen over.
Apologies i have no idea how to copy and paste, i hope you still get this!
Without doubt those days of plo8 dyms and the banter were great times! It used to get me through a working day with something to look forward to. Only me and Eon left now and occasionally mmmmchips. We both still enjoy it and over the years i have improved to be within touching distance of the G.O.A.T lol.
As you know i'm not much of a poster on here, but i am a prolific reader and i follow all the big Sky stories and appreciate all the work you do for players, you have an amazing grass roots understanding of ordinary players..Who else would go to all the trouble of sorting out a missing free roll when they had just returned from Vegas? Wonderful!!
Sadly as far as Spt's are concerned it's just not possible at the moment. I took early retirement 6 years ago to be a full time carer for my partner. She has multiple illnesses including Parkinsons and chronic arthritis, and as a result she hates me being away overnight..so i don't bother!!
All this said it doesn't stop me hankering to go to Vegas or to one day attend an Spt. i'll let you know if one day it becomes possible.
So nice to hear from you too best wishes,
whizzy
They are business and with all businesses their aim is to maximise profit and push what is acceptable to the limits to make gains. Again im repeating myself.
As it stands, regulation is so lapse with those regulating proven to have no knowledge of how poker works.... i dont blame any poker sites doing what they are doing. It is the fault of the so called regulators, who are out of their depth, misunderstanding poker and can not possibly regulate something they dont understand.
I find it amusing that if this was ever proven that you people think there would be this national outrage and sites being shut down. There is only a few thousand players out of 58m in the country that even care, sites have multiple other things to bet on in the same place that is total luck and that have accepted manipulated outcomes by the site....
The general public would not understand the difference, they would just think i thought it was all the same thing, it would not be news to them. And as the gambling commission do not look at anything, including the RNG, who is ever going to care enough to find out anyway.....
Corruption.... wow dont me laugh. Its just a company going about their business.
Not my opinion, maths.
I can understand your frustrations, poker can seem so ridiculous at times.
Having said that, reading through your posts you seem to vigorously state that something is amiss with the rng, as according to your recollections the maths aren’t right, and Sky is exploiting this to maximise profits.
Stating these things is akin to saying the site is bent ( dodgy)
The gambling commission don’t really need to know much about poker ( imo) as long as sites use a regulated RNG ( if regulated is the right word)
You make a decent profit, well done on that.
Hope you can come to the sensible conclusion that sky isn’t out to get you, or scam you out of possible winnings.
Everyone else (ie non seasoned players, the population in general) would consider any form of gambling total luck and think there is an accepted house edge to make money in any online games, slots, bingo, blackjack, etc.
Even i accept this is the way it is. If i play slots, i know any winnings will be their decision and not my skill or luck. So I adapt my poker game to allow for this.
I have no gripe that they do this per se, i accept they do what they have to to maximise profit, as any business.
My only gripe is there should be a disclaimer and it be common knowledge... and thats it. The lies and the threats to have to believe in something that maths is saying isnt right, i find not acceptable.
And when their opening line in defence of the deck is a proven total lie (we would not financially benefit from having a deck that is not random ....when clearly they would as it would maintain customers numbers and increase rake), this does not help matters.
I think even the defenders of the sites would say such an untrue line is not the best idea when attempting to convince players who have questioned things.
I repeat, this is not a 'scam', 'dodgy', 'bent', 'corrupt' in my eyes, all your words, not mine. Its business and as it stands acceptable in the current way its being regulated.