We have had this debate before. Firstly I would like to make it clear that I do not intend to moan. Secondly, during the previous debate it was pointed out that my knowledge regarding the running of a poker site is non existent. I absolutely plead guilty to this charge. However I do have some opinions, and the place to air them is on the forum, despite the protestations of The Lone Ranger, Tonto, and others. During the last debate lots of seemingly knowledgeable people said that the Bounty Hunters are the most popular tourneys. I don't have the knowledge to dispute this. The theory behind this being that the prize money is spread further. This is undisputable. Having said that I am certain many players that play regularly would like to see more of a variety. With all this in mind, is it not therefore strange that the flagship weekly tournament with the biggest prize pool is a freezeout. Also the main event in every UKOPS, which has the most runners, and the biggest prize pool, is also a freezeout. Wouldn't this point to the fact that you can attract players as long as the prize pool is big enough, and whether it is a bounty hunter or freeze out is irrelevant. I can also remember when I first played on Sky, before there were any Bounty Hunters, there were far more runners in the main event every day. Maybe times have changed, but to attract the maximum number of customers you surely need a variety. Lets say you had a chip shop and only sold fish and chips, not chips on their own, or fish on its own, just fish and chips. So if someone came in for a pie, or a pasty you couldn't help them. Even if one of your customers fancied a change and wanted a battered sausage, they would have to go elsewhere. Three years down the road the only customers you would have, would be fish and chip eaters. You would then be correct in saying that all your customers love fish and chips. Also, all your customers would readily agree that they love fish and chips, and you would be correct in saying that your most popular product is fish and chips. However I am sure that it would be easy to argue that a wider range of products would attract a larger customer base. The danger of your regular customers going elsewhere for a change, is that they may like it elsewhere and not come back. So if you run a poker site and the vast majority of your mtts are bounty hunters and have been for a number of years, then it follows that large numbers of the regular players will like bounty hunters. Any players that may not be so keen on them may be playing elsewhere, and only come back for some big tourneys. There seem to be new players every day winning their first tournament, yet there doesn't seem to be any additional players in the tournaments that I regularly play. There seem to be more guarantees being reduced, than increased. In fact most of the main events were reduced by £2,000, the reason quoted for this was that there are less players in Summer. Presumably November is Winter, yet they have not increased. Therefore, saying that bounty hunters are the most popular tournaments doesn't seem to be reflected in the number of runners. So if you accept that the most popular online tourneys are bounty hunters, and that Sky specialise in them, you would surely expect the number of runners to be increasing, as would the guarantees. Everyone gets excited about a big tournament, and it would be nice to access a few more. From a personal point of view I would like to see a few more £33 buy ins, with £6k or£8k guarantees. I wouldn't care that much if they were bounty hunters or not. Something that I personally find a little disappointing is the mtt weekend schedule. I say this because I assume that there must be more poker players around on weekends, than on week days. Yet the daily schedule is pretty much the same 7 days per week. You would think that there would be the opportunity to put some bigger tourneys on during the day on weekends. I really enjoy playing on Sky, and have no intention of going elsewhere, not even for a battered sausage for a change. There are those that I am sure will find this disappointing, at least one with a mask, and another with pigtails.
if you were to go and look at most of the sites matt,count the players sitting at the nl mtt,and count the players sitting at the bounty hunter mtts ime sure it would be about 9 to 1 in favour of the non bounty hunters, the reason for that may well be that the ordinary mtts vastly outnumber the bh mtts available. so unless sky know better than all other sites out there and are right and the rest are wrong,theres much more players wanting to play non bounty hunter games,
there is a market for bh games [and as you say it is growing] other sites see that and add them to their schedule.
but the vast majority still want to play ordinary nlh freezeouts or rebuys, and I don't see why sky don't try and get those players, yes its hard to compete with the big companys,but no excuse for not trying,
Morning mate, hope you are ok.
I get that you are not a fan of BH's - nor am I for that matter - but we can't deny that is what the majority Sky Poker MTT-ers want. That is not an opinion, it is a fact, & has been proven countless times over the years.
If we look at the 10 days of UKOPS, & focus on the "Mini" (because it is the most popular by numbers entered), here are the number of players who entered, starting from Day 1 & right through to Day 10.
Day 1, Bounty Hunter - 490
Day 2, Freezeout NLH - 315
Day 3, Bounty Hunter - 509
Day 4, Bounty Hunter - 439
Day 5, Bounty Hunter - 488
Day 6, Rebuy NLH - 309
Day 7, Bounty Hunter - 454
Day 8, Bounty Hunter - 510
Day 9, Bounty Hunter - 479
Day 10, NLH Freezeout - 350.
So, the average for the Bounty Hunters was 481.
The average for non Bounty Hunters was 325.
OK, it's a ridic small sample size, but if we ran the numbers over, say, three years (over 1,000 Minis) it would come out about the same.
That's a big difference though - 50% MORE played the UKOPS Mini BH's than the Mini NON BH's.
I completely understand your frustration, but we can't argue with the cold, hard facts.
By the bye, if you don't mind me saying so, I think it was a bit harsh to suggest Sky Poker have not tried non Bounty Hunters - they have, & that gave them a clear answer.
Also, "there's no excuse for (Sky Poker) not trying" seemed very unfair. They have tried, but the players said they wanted more BH's.
Hope you are keeping well. Had any decent "Live" cashes lately? I know you had a bink or two in Vegas this year.
One post by an elderly and evidently confused gentleman seems to have been duplicated about a dozen times (dozenlicated?) so I'm going to Delete the dupes.
What about a main event bounty hunter with a straight £10 on heads, into your account. This means £20 per runner would go into the prize pool. The head values wouldn't increase, but the actual prize money increases by 33%. The winner would get around £1300 plus heads rather than a grand, and everyone cashing would get one third more plus heads. The same three heads required to just about break even. Could we try a tourney that ended at the final table. So once you got down to the final table, whatever position you were in would be your finishing position. The chip leader would be the winner. That might be a change. As far as main events are concerned, we currently have 5 nights with the same buy in. Why not one cheap night and one a little more expensive. Maybe one at £11, and one at £55. Maybe a £55 with a £15 head prize. Even if they are mostly bounty hunters, they don't have to be all the same.
haysie,,,,you put the point across a lot better than I ever could,[ime a pie and chips man myself]
tikay....ive prob not been around sky enough to support the non bounty hunter mtts when they have tried them, and saying they not trying enough was wrong on my part.
as ive said above,i really like sky for lots of reasons,a few decent non bounty hunters a night would make it perfect for me.
as for live play tikay,tried my luck in tallin [Estonia] a couple of weeks ago,played terrible and got what I deserved [nowt] was a cracking weekend though.
going to morocco in January to try my luck there, was also hoping to try my first irish open next year,though not sure what to do now [as they have put it on in Cheltenham week]...then its the nugget for 3 weeks june/july..hopefully make a sky live event also someday.
haysie,,,,you put the point across a lot better than I ever could,[ime a pie and chips man myself]
tikay....ive prob not been around sky enough to support the non bounty hunter mtts when they have tried them, and saying they not trying enough was wrong on my part.
as ive said above,i really like sky for lots of reasons,a few decent non bounty hunters a night would make it perfect for me.
as for live play tikay,tried my luck in tallin [Estonia] a couple of weeks ago,played terrible and got what I deserved [nowt] was a cracking weekend though.
going to morocco in January to try my luck there, was also hoping to try my first irish open next year,though not sure what to do now [as they have put it on in Cheltenham week]...then its the nugget for 3 weeks june/july..hopefully make a sky live event also someday.
Hi m8,
Thanks, appreciate the acknowledgement as to "no excuse" etc, top man you.
Irish Open & Cheltenham week - yikes, that's unfortunate timing.
Golden Nugget next June - well we KNOW you do OK there.
Now that the "old" Caesars Card Room has closed - loved that room - the Nugget is probably my favourite Vegas room. Huge room, big high ceiling, nice & light, cracking place to play poker. I did no good at Nugget this year, but managed to chop one at Binions.
Here's a weird thing though. There is some kerfuffle right now that Grosvenor (GUKPT & Goliath etc) are putting up the Reg Fees, from 10% to 12.5% I think, & everyone is kicking off. I'm guessing those guys have never played at Golden Nugget & Binions in Vegas, where Reg Fees are rarely less than 17.5%, often 20% or 22.5%, & I've even seen 27.5% at both Binions & Nugget.
If you fancy playing a Sky Poker live event, there is one this weekend in Brighton. (10% Reg fee, oioi). Lord Channing will be there, too. MBN, YBA, marv, etc.
One post by an elderly and evidently confused gentleman seems to have been duplicated about a dozen times (dozenlicated?) so I'm going to Delete the dupes.
Update - done.
My apologies, as a more elderly man, I am sure you are aware of how easy it is to become confused with technical issues.
the brighton one is to soon for me, yep love the nugget,this will be my 4th year in a row there, all my friends [non poker] always ask me why I don't stay on the strip, i try to explain to them that the strip is just walking for miles to get across a bridge to reach another casino, always crowded and hot. Fremont street on the other hand is like a holiday resort,you are under cover,theres plenty of casinos/bars/restaurants all within yards of each other [without even crossing a busy road lol ] lots of entertainment whether it be the 3 stages,or most casinos/bars have bands on,
for me its more of a holiday than just the poker,my missus goes with me each year,so i only play 3 or 4 mtts, also when i wake up in the morning at the nugget,i love to go get myself a starbucks ,have a few cigs and play in a cash game for a couple of hours before she gets up.
theres a good selection of mtts every day at the nugget,but your right about the rake,300k in one tournie and if my counting was right they took almost 90k out of it.
Those who have never been to Vegas struggle to understand the scale of everything there. Bet most would be surprised that one Hotel/Casino (Golden Nugget) has TWO Starbucks. And yeah, you can get a cash game or an MTT at any time of the day, 24/7.
Love the atmo on Fremont Street, too.
I have a Fremont St routine whenever I cash at Nugget or Binions, which tends to be early hours of the morning, 3 or 4 am. Wander across to the Binions Café & order their "Gamblers Breakfast". Costs about $10. Egg, ham, steak, hash browns, best meal ever.
Slightly off topic (delete if you want Mr Mod Tikay).....but how did the meeting with the tech guys go y/day? Any news/updates?
Sadly, it did not - the chap I needed to see as to the various Forum matters I need their input on was not available yesterday. So I've sent him a note this morning. It was the only thing in a list of 4 or 5 matters I was there to discuss that did not get resolved, so a bit unforch really.
That's a big difference though - 50% MORE played the UKOPS Mini BH's than the Mini NON BH's.
Assuming you accept this as being completely valid, and not argue whether the buy in, guarantee, or day of the week each tourney was played on had an effect. I wouldn't argue over it. Do you think that this is a self fulfilling prophecy? If you compared 3 comparable poker sites, one of which only ran bounty hunter tourneys, the second only ran freezeouts, and the third ran a balanced variety of tourneys. If these started with an equal number of players, then most people would probably opt to own the third. You would expect to be able to attract more players, rather than restrict yourself to attracting one lot or the other. If Sky Poker had a schedule that had been overwhelmingly full of freezeouts over the last few years, and just the odd bounty hunter, would your comparison have been completely reversed in favour of freezeouts? As things stand if you were a brand new player, or just trying Sky out, after playing on other sites, you may only continue to play on the site if you liked bounty hunters, if you weren't that keen, you may choose to play elsewhere. Isnt it logical to think that if you took 100 poker players at random then some would like bounty hunters, some freezouts, and some a variety. If it just happened to be one third for each, you would surely wish to appeal to all of them rather than just one third. I am not bothered about playing bounty hunters or not, but I would like to see a few more biggish tourneys without massive buy ins, which means attracting a few more players. I suppose it is a chicken and egg story, and what came first, the bounty hunters or the players that like them. The main event at UKOPS smashed the guarantee by attracting many players presumably from other sites, even though it was a freezeout. Generally, it seems that Sky seem able to regularly attract players from elsewhere for the big events, but don't seem to be able to hang on to them on a permanent or regular basis.
Rewind 5 years, and you're the owner of a chippy. This chippy sells all the products you'd expect it to (fish and chips, battered sausage, pies, fishcakes etc). You notice that you're starting to see a much bigger interest in battered sausage (bounty hunters) and sales of that are outstripping all the other menu products combined.
Not only is it your biggest seller, but you're also the only chippy in the area selling battered sausage. So you decide to make that your main product, and focus a lot of your attention on battered sausage. The figures continue to grow, and you notice some other chippys have started offering a small range of battered sausage in their shops.
Occasionally a customer will enquire why you only have a limited number of fishcakes (Freezeouts), but you explain that everytime you prepare more, you end up chucking some of them away (overlay). The demand simply isn't there for big numbers of that product, but for battered sausage the people still turn up in numbers wanting to buy.
As the owner of this chippy, what would you do? Cater to the masses or the few? You can see what the figures and sales say, and you can see how much in demand the battered sausage is....
That's a big difference though - 50% MORE played the UKOPS Mini BH's than the Mini NON BH's.
Assuming you accept this as being completely valid, and not argue whether the buy in, guarantee, or day of the week each tourney was played on had an effect. I wouldn't argue over it. Do you think that this is a self fulfilling prophecy? If you compared 3 comparable poker sites, one of which only ran bounty hunter tourneys, the second only ran freezeouts, and the third ran a balanced variety of tourneys. If these started with an equal number of players, then most people would probably opt to own the third. You would expect to be able to attract more players, rather than restrict yourself to attracting one lot or the other. If Sky Poker had a schedule that had been overwhelmingly full of freezeouts over the last few years, and just the odd bounty hunter, would your comparison have been completely reversed in favour of freezeouts? As things stand if you were a brand new player, or just trying Sky out, after playing on other sites, you may only continue to play on the site if you liked bounty hunters, if you weren't that keen, you may choose to play elsewhere. Isnt it logical to think that if you took 100 poker players at random then some would like bounty hunters, some freezouts, and some a variety. If it just happened to be one third for each, you would surely wish to appeal to all of them rather than just one third. I am not bothered about playing bounty hunters or not, but I would like to see a few more biggish tourneys without massive buy ins, which means attracting a few more players. I suppose it is a chicken and egg story, and what came first, the bounty hunters or the players that like them. The main event at UKOPS smashed the guarantee by attracting many players presumably from other sites, even though it was a freezeout. Generally, it seems that Sky seem able to regularly attract players from elsewhere for the big events, but don't seem to be able to hang on to them on a permanent or regular basis.
isn't this exactly what has happened?
it is demand led. over time the demand has changed and the supply has responded. if things were supply led we would still have things like tippex, encyclopedias or newspapers. we can turn back the clock but these things would either return to today's position or disappear quite quickly.
a good living example is plo8. sky poker holds this option open. it too is demand led. if you tried to make it supply led at the expense of alternatives the sky poker business might suffer.
i think it is a matter of embracing the new normal.
Rewind 5 years, and you're the owner of a chippy. This chippy sells all the products you'd expect it to (fish and chips, battered sausage, pies, fishcakes etc). You notice that you're starting to see a much bigger interest in battered sausage (bounty hunters) and sales of that are outstripping all the other menu products combined.
Not only is it your biggest seller, but you're also the only chippy in the area selling battered sausage. So you decide to make that your main product, and focus a lot of your attention on battered sausage. The figures continue to grow, and you notice some other chippys have started offering a small range of battered sausage in their shops.
Occasionally a customer will enquire why you only have a limited number of fishcakes (Freezeouts), but you explain that everytime you prepare more, you end up chucking some of them away (overlay). The demand simply isn't there for big numbers of that product, but for battered sausage the people still turn up in numbers wanting to buy.
As the owner of this chippy, what would you do? Cater to the masses or the few? You can see what the figures and sales say, and you can see how much in demand the battered sausage is....
I spend most of my time in the Indian takeaway next door. I'm a big fan of their cash game masala and also the deep stack cash biryani. I tend to avoid the spin-up vindaloo though - it gives me terrible heartburn!
I do keep trying to vary my diet a little more but every time I look in the chippie I find the menu to be too limited and samey for my tastes. I've had the abundantly available fish and chips a few times but wasn't overwhelmed to be frank. I tried the pies too which I much preferred but unfortunately they offer very few of these and only on certain nights of the week and at very specific times. If the chippie ever widens its range/offering of pies then I'm sure I'll visit it more often.
I personally don't like b/h as they are ostensibly aimed at action junkies who want a fast paced game and hey that's perfectly fine you pay your money you play whatever and however you like.
My main gripe about them would be that against a regular deepstack (which are very good on sky. Lots of play for very little outlay) or a freezeout is that hand value is very much minimised.
If I can give an example lets say your at level 10 of a deepstack so you've been playing for a couple of hours and you bet 70% of the pot with your Kings. Most of the time you will get any opposition out of the way because at this stage that will be a fair chunk of anyones stack to commit and its probably still 20 spots and an hour or so away from the bubble. So theres little value in an opponent calling behind.
However that same play in the same spot of a bounty hunter will probably result in one and possibly multiple calls as players factor in the value of the bounties and not just end structure payouts. I also assume this is where many of the bad beat stories come from. After all if theres two players all in in front and theres about 10 pounds worth of bounties and you've got say 10 J suited youre not getting bad odds to ship it.
So like you I'm not a fan of b/h but I can understand why they are so popular especially in the 6 max format but as I find them too manic I usually steer clear although the 7 at 7 is good fun.
I personally don't like b/h as they are ostensibly aimed at action junkies who want a fast paced game and hey that's perfectly fine you pay your money you play whatever and however you like.
My main gripe about them would be that against a regular deepstack (which are very good on sky. Lots of play for very little outlay) or a freezeout is that hand value is very much minimised.
If I can give an example lets say your at level 10 of a deepstack so you've been playing for a couple of hours and you bet 70% of the pot with your Kings. Most of the time you will get any opposition out of the way because at this stage that will be a fair chunk of anyones stack to commit and its probably still 20 spots and an hour or so away from the bubble. So theres little value in an opponent calling behind.
However that same play in the same spot of a bounty hunter will probably result in one and possibly multiple calls as players factor in the value of the bounties and not just end structure payouts. I also assume this is where many of the bad beat stories come from. After all if theres two players all in in front and theres about 10 pounds worth of bounties and you've got say 10 J suited youre not getting bad odds to ship it.
So like you I'm not a fan of b/h but I can understand why they are so popular especially in the 6 max format but as I find them too manic I usually steer clear although the 7 at 7 is good fun.
Yours in poker
Mark
So you don't like bounty hunters because people make bad calls in them?
Comments
Firstly I would like to make it clear that I do not intend to moan. Secondly, during the previous debate it was pointed out that my knowledge regarding the running of a poker site is non existent. I absolutely plead guilty to this charge.
However I do have some opinions, and the place to air them is on the forum, despite the protestations of The Lone Ranger, Tonto, and others.
During the last debate lots of seemingly knowledgeable people said that the Bounty Hunters are the most popular tourneys. I don't have the knowledge to dispute this. The theory behind this being that the prize money is spread further. This is undisputable. Having said that I am certain many players that play regularly would like to see more of a variety.
With all this in mind, is it not therefore strange that the flagship weekly tournament with the biggest prize pool is a freezeout. Also the main event in every UKOPS, which has the most runners, and the biggest prize pool, is also a freezeout. Wouldn't this point to the fact that you can attract players as long as the prize pool is big enough, and whether it is a bounty hunter or freeze out is irrelevant.
I can also remember when I first played on Sky, before there were any Bounty Hunters, there were far more runners in the main event every day. Maybe times have changed, but to attract the maximum number of customers you surely need a variety.
Lets say you had a chip shop and only sold fish and chips, not chips on their own, or fish on its own, just fish and chips. So if someone came in for a pie, or a pasty you couldn't help them. Even if one of your customers fancied a change and wanted a battered sausage, they would have to go elsewhere. Three years down the road the only customers you would have, would be fish and chip eaters.
You would then be correct in saying that all your customers love fish and chips. Also, all your customers would readily agree that they love fish and chips, and you would be correct in saying that your most popular product is fish and chips. However I am sure that it would be easy to argue that a wider range of products would attract a larger customer base.
The danger of your regular customers going elsewhere for a change, is that they may like it elsewhere and not come back.
So if you run a poker site and the vast majority of your mtts are bounty hunters and have been for a number of years, then it follows that large numbers of the regular players will like bounty hunters. Any players that may not be so keen on them may be playing elsewhere, and only come back for some big tourneys.
There seem to be new players every day winning their first tournament, yet there doesn't seem to be any additional players in the tournaments that I regularly play. There seem to be more guarantees being reduced, than increased. In fact most of the main events were reduced by £2,000, the reason quoted for this was that there are less players in Summer. Presumably November is Winter, yet they have not increased.
Therefore, saying that bounty hunters are the most popular tournaments doesn't seem to be reflected in the number of runners.
So if you accept that the most popular online tourneys are bounty hunters, and that Sky specialise in them, you would surely expect the number of runners to be increasing, as would the guarantees.
Everyone gets excited about a big tournament, and it would be nice to access a few more. From a personal point of view I would like to see a few more £33 buy ins, with £6k or£8k guarantees. I wouldn't care that much if they were bounty hunters or not.
Something that I personally find a little disappointing is the mtt weekend schedule. I say this because I assume that there must be more poker players around on weekends, than on week days. Yet the daily schedule is pretty much the same 7 days per week. You would think that there would be the opportunity to put some bigger tourneys on during the day on weekends.
I really enjoy playing on Sky, and have no intention of going elsewhere, not even for a battered sausage for a change. There are those that I am sure will find this disappointing, at least one with a mask, and another with pigtails.
I get that you are not a fan of BH's - nor am I for that matter - but we can't deny that is what the majority Sky Poker MTT-ers want. That is not an opinion, it is a fact, & has been proven countless times over the years.
If we look at the 10 days of UKOPS, & focus on the "Mini" (because it is the most popular by numbers entered), here are the number of players who entered, starting from Day 1 & right through to Day 10.
Day 1, Bounty Hunter - 490
Day 2, Freezeout NLH - 315
Day 3, Bounty Hunter - 509
Day 4, Bounty Hunter - 439
Day 5, Bounty Hunter - 488
Day 6, Rebuy NLH - 309
Day 7, Bounty Hunter - 454
Day 8, Bounty Hunter - 510
Day 9, Bounty Hunter - 479
Day 10, NLH Freezeout - 350.
So, the average for the Bounty Hunters was 481.
The average for non Bounty Hunters was 325.
OK, it's a ridic small sample size, but if we ran the numbers over, say, three years (over 1,000 Minis) it would come out about the same.
That's a big difference though - 50% MORE played the UKOPS Mini BH's than the Mini NON BH's.
I completely understand your frustration, but we can't argue with the cold, hard facts.
By the bye, if you don't mind me saying so, I think it was a bit harsh to suggest Sky Poker have not tried non Bounty Hunters - they have, & that gave them a clear answer.
Also, "there's no excuse for (Sky Poker) not trying" seemed very unfair. They have tried, but the players said they wanted more BH's.
Hope you are keeping well. Had any decent "Live" cashes lately? I know you had a bink or two in Vegas this year.
Take care m8.
Update - done.
Could we try a tourney that ended at the final table. So once you got down to the final table, whatever position you were in would be your finishing position. The chip leader would be the winner. That might be a change.
As far as main events are concerned, we currently have 5 nights with the same buy in. Why not one cheap night and one a little more expensive. Maybe one at £11, and one at £55. Maybe a £55 with a £15 head prize.
Even if they are mostly bounty hunters, they don't have to be all the same.
tikay....ive prob not been around sky enough to support the non bounty hunter mtts when they have tried them, and saying they not trying enough was wrong on my part.
as ive said above,i really like sky for lots of reasons,a few decent non bounty hunters a night would make it perfect for me.
as for live play tikay,tried my luck in tallin [Estonia] a couple of weeks ago,played terrible and got what I deserved [nowt] was a cracking weekend though.
going to morocco in January to try my luck there, was also hoping to try my first irish open next year,though not sure what to do now [as they have put it on in Cheltenham week]...then its the nugget for 3 weeks june/july..hopefully make a sky live event also someday.
Thanks, appreciate the acknowledgement as to "no excuse" etc, top man you.
Irish Open & Cheltenham week - yikes, that's unfortunate timing.
Golden Nugget next June - well we KNOW you do OK there.
Now that the "old" Caesars Card Room has closed - loved that room - the Nugget is probably my favourite Vegas room. Huge room, big high ceiling, nice & light, cracking place to play poker. I did no good at Nugget this year, but managed to chop one at Binions.
Here's a weird thing though. There is some kerfuffle right now that Grosvenor (GUKPT & Goliath etc) are putting up the Reg Fees, from 10% to 12.5% I think, & everyone is kicking off. I'm guessing those guys have never played at Golden Nugget & Binions in Vegas, where Reg Fees are rarely less than 17.5%, often 20% or 22.5%, & I've even seen 27.5% at both Binions & Nugget.
If you fancy playing a Sky Poker live event, there is one this weekend in Brighton. (10% Reg fee, oioi). Lord Channing will be there, too. MBN, YBA, marv, etc.
yep love the nugget,this will be my 4th year in a row there, all my friends [non poker] always ask me why I don't stay on the strip, i try to explain to them that the strip is just walking for miles to get across a bridge to reach another casino, always crowded and hot.
Fremont street on the other hand is like a holiday resort,you are under cover,theres plenty of casinos/bars/restaurants all within yards of each other [without even crossing a busy road lol ] lots of entertainment whether it be the 3 stages,or most casinos/bars have bands on,
for me its more of a holiday than just the poker,my missus goes with me each year,so i only play 3 or 4 mtts, also when i wake up in the morning at the nugget,i love to go get myself a starbucks ,have a few cigs and play in a cash game for a couple of hours before she gets up.
theres a good selection of mtts every day at the nugget,but your right about the rake,300k in one tournie and if my counting was right they took almost 90k out of it.
Those who have never been to Vegas struggle to understand the scale of everything there. Bet most would be surprised that one Hotel/Casino (Golden Nugget) has TWO Starbucks. And yeah, you can get a cash game or an MTT at any time of the day, 24/7.
Love the atmo on Fremont Street, too.
I have a Fremont St routine whenever I cash at Nugget or Binions, which tends to be early hours of the morning, 3 or 4 am. Wander across to the Binions Café & order their "Gamblers Breakfast". Costs about $10. Egg, ham, steak, hash browns, best meal ever.
That's a big difference though - 50% MORE played the UKOPS Mini BH's than the Mini NON BH's.
Assuming you accept this as being completely valid, and not argue whether the buy in, guarantee, or day of the week each tourney was played on had an effect. I wouldn't argue over it.
Do you think that this is a self fulfilling prophecy?
If you compared 3 comparable poker sites, one of which only ran bounty hunter tourneys, the second only ran freezeouts, and the third ran a balanced variety of tourneys. If these started with an equal number of players, then most people would probably opt to own the third. You would expect to be able to attract more players, rather than restrict yourself to attracting one lot or the other.
If Sky Poker had a schedule that had been overwhelmingly full of freezeouts over the last few years, and just the odd bounty hunter, would your comparison have been completely reversed in favour of freezeouts?
As things stand if you were a brand new player, or just trying Sky out, after playing on other sites, you may only continue to play on the site if you liked bounty hunters, if you weren't that keen, you may choose to play elsewhere.
Isnt it logical to think that if you took 100 poker players at random then some would like bounty hunters, some freezouts, and some a variety. If it just happened to be one third for each, you would surely wish to appeal to all of them rather than just one third.
I am not bothered about playing bounty hunters or not, but I would like to see a few more biggish tourneys without massive buy ins, which means attracting a few more players.
I suppose it is a chicken and egg story, and what came first, the bounty hunters or the players that like them.
The main event at UKOPS smashed the guarantee by attracting many players presumably from other sites, even though it was a freezeout.
Generally, it seems that Sky seem able to regularly attract players from elsewhere for the big events, but don't seem to be able to hang on to them on a permanent or regular basis.
Rewind 5 years, and you're the owner of a chippy. This chippy sells all the products you'd expect it to (fish and chips, battered sausage, pies, fishcakes etc). You notice that you're starting to see a much bigger interest in battered sausage (bounty hunters) and sales of that are outstripping all the other menu products combined.
Not only is it your biggest seller, but you're also the only chippy in the area selling battered sausage. So you decide to make that your main product, and focus a lot of your attention on battered sausage. The figures continue to grow, and you notice some other chippys have started offering a small range of battered sausage in their shops.
Occasionally a customer will enquire why you only have a limited number of fishcakes (Freezeouts), but you explain that everytime you prepare more, you end up chucking some of them away (overlay). The demand simply isn't there for big numbers of that product, but for battered sausage the people still turn up in numbers wanting to buy.
As the owner of this chippy, what would you do? Cater to the masses or the few? You can see what the figures and sales say, and you can see how much in demand the battered sausage is....
isn't this exactly what has happened?
it is demand led. over time the demand has changed and the supply has responded. if things were supply led we would still have things like tippex, encyclopedias or newspapers. we can turn back the clock but these things would either return to today's position or disappear quite quickly.
a good living example is plo8. sky poker holds this option open. it too is demand led. if you tried to make it supply led at the expense of alternatives the sky poker business might suffer.
i think it is a matter of embracing the new normal.
I do keep trying to vary my diet a little more but every time I look in the chippie I find the menu to be too limited and samey for my tastes. I've had the abundantly available fish and chips a few times but wasn't overwhelmed to be frank. I tried the pies too which I much preferred but unfortunately they offer very few of these and only on certain nights of the week and at very specific times. If the chippie ever widens its range/offering of pies then I'm sure I'll visit it more often.
I personally don't like b/h as they are ostensibly aimed at action junkies who want a fast paced game and hey that's perfectly fine you pay your money you play whatever and however you like.
My main gripe about them would be that against a regular deepstack (which are very good on sky. Lots of play for very little outlay) or a freezeout is that hand value is very much minimised.
If I can give an example lets say your at level 10 of a deepstack so you've been playing for a couple of hours and you bet 70% of the pot with your Kings. Most of the time you will get any opposition out of the way because at this stage that will be a fair chunk of anyones stack to commit and its probably still 20 spots and an hour or so away from the bubble. So theres little value in an opponent calling behind.
However that same play in the same spot of a bounty hunter will probably result in one and possibly multiple calls as players factor in the value of the bounties and not just end structure payouts. I also assume this is where many of the bad beat stories come from. After all if theres two players all in in front and theres about 10 pounds worth of bounties and you've got say 10 J suited youre not getting bad odds to ship it.
So like you I'm not a fan of b/h but I can understand why they are so popular especially in the 6 max format but as I find them too manic I usually steer clear although the 7 at 7 is good fun.
Yours in poker
Mark