Good luck with this buddy. I'm a big fan of yours as you know. I like your approach to the game and your attitude at the tables. Add to this your writing style and sense of humour and I can see this being my favourite diary of 2018.
Lets go back to the other night with your AKo fold on the bubble with 6bb for starters if you don't mind (I may as well throw my hat in the ring/put my neck on the line) if I'm not gonna share my opinion here (hopefully a safe place) then I'm not gonna do it anywhere, so here goes...
You are absolutely right to query this hand and it shows that you are immediately thinking along the right lines in these UNIQUE spots in tournaments. People get caught up in this "playing for the win" attitude/mentality. Applying that attitude in this specific spot is not good in my opinion because:
1) you are on the bubble with a very short stack but future game dictates that you are GUARANTEED to cash within the next orbit IF you continue to fold 2) doubling up to ~12bb at this stage in the tournament DOES NOT significantly improve your chances of winning the tournament (with so much future game still to play from this point onwards it is difficult to quantify just how much doubling up here MAY improve your chances of winning the tournament, but it is certainly NOT SIGNIFICANT when the double will still leave you considerably short of even an AVERAGE STACK with 70+ players left...
Playing for the win is all well and good (and it is how we should be approaching MTT's in general of course) but bubble play is where the lines get blurred and things change. Clear shoves/raises before and after the bubble can become clear folds on the bubble and clear folds before and after the bubble can become clear shoves/raises on the bubble in certain situations. Bubbles usually put you in one of two positions (depending on your stack and how it measures up against EVERYONE else still in the tournament) you will usually either be in a position to THRIVE (this is where you should absolutely be taking chances to increase your stack and begin to put yourself in a better position to win the tournament by putting others' tournament lives at risk) or a position to SURVIVE. When you are clearly in a position to THRIVE that is when you should be thinking about top 3/winning the tournament but when you are not in this position you should no longer be thinking about winning the tournament as that is no longer your immediate concern. Your stack size and how it compares to others left in the tournament AND future game scenario in this specific situation, clearly puts you in survival mode. Your goal in this specific spot is quite clearly to survive the bubble and lock up the cash- I think I might only jam AA exactly in this spot (also worth mentioning that this is one of those spots where you should be folding AA in a satellite... I still frequently see people auto-shoving AK and QQ here on the stone bubble into blinds that cover them when they have a seat GUARANTEED before the blinds reach them again )
Being aware of future game scenario is so important in spots like this. Knowing that the bubble will burst before the blinds reach you again and covering the BB by even a single chip means you could now comfortably shove your AKo (and much wider, you could even argue a case for now shoving a Nash 6bb BTN range of 38% of hands... too wide for my liking though, even if "profitable", I'd probably prefer to still keep it pretty tight in this spot and shove something like 55+, A9o+, A5s+, KJs+, KQo+)
So, all that considered, I think your fold, in this very specific spot, is closer to being correct than incorrect.
Anyway, all the best with this Dues, I'm confident you will do very well indeed. I hope you give the MTT's a fair crack of the whip though... I would love you to just go for it and challenge the likes of Matt Bates and loololollo for volume and see what happens...
Hi Myna
Thanks for taking the time to write such an awesome post. Much of this really resonates - especially the part about the likelihood of us really being able to take down a tournament when a double up still leaves us with a paltry 12bb stack and there's such a long way still to go. Compared with the merits of locking up an immediate profit whilst still retaining another shot at a double up in a few hands time, it really is a pretty close call all things considered (or should I say close fold?!). Against a prevailing wind of voices advocating the 'get it in' approach, you have at the very least made me feel like a bit less of a berk, so thanks again .
This little debate has led to a number of musings on my part about all sorts of tournament related quandaries, so I've no doubt I'll be posting more about those soon. You were warned at the start not to expect riveting content people!
I'm leaning ever-so-slightly slightly towards Myna's pov. But it's close.
Another thing to bear in mind, is that often (particularly in this tournament) people who have been clinging on to a min-cash often go a bit wild and jam/call far, far wider post-bubble meaning double/triple/QUADRUPLE ups etc. become more common. In my experience, at least.
I also don't know what I'm talking about but for me jam every time! The opportunity to try to double up, I can't resist...( remember that if we ever play...)
I'm fairly new to playing- 2 years in- so feel the time is right to keep a proper Profit/Loss for the year.( rather than the delusional view I have about how much i win, when really I think I might be down overall...)
My 2018 target is to win seats to the SPT events I can make and win enough additional seats to cover the accommodation/travel and the biggest expenditure; beer for Hanson, SidV79, Misty4me and EssexPhil!! ( Oh yes, AND breakeven for the year!)
So far 2017 Brighton - 6 seats(2 playing seats, £880 cash), Manchester 2018- 3 seats (1* day 1a+ £440 cash) so on track to buy the craft brewery needed to satisfy Phil....
So hope to meet you in Manchester?
May, like most men's urine, you run golden this year!!
Good luck Duesenberg, nice work, looks like you'll do a great job. Looking forward to reading about your progress. I'm shoving in that spot, but on the bubble of a seat to Las Vegas, I might have accidentally timed out. Floppa whoppa!
Thanks @SR23, @madprof and @oynutter. I'm afraid I'm unlikely to be at the Manchester SPT unless a free ticket happens to magically land in my lap, but I certainly hope to make it along to at least one SPT this year.
Latest update.
I was slightly busier on the tourney front on Monday night. I played the three Triple Takedown (TT) events, the mini, the main and the now obligatory £2.20 deepstack. It wasn't looking good at the start as I made very early exits from both TT1 and TT2 when QQ and KK just looked too pretty to let go of on low flops facing big action. My spidey senses knew better really, but I still found myself having to press the call button just to prove to myself that I was right all along. After giving myself a ticking off things improved a bit. TT3 went much better but I rather annoyingly bubbled the final table for a 7th place finish. The mini saw a mid-stage exit but nearly paid for itself with 2 bounties bagged before being unceremoniously ejected by high stakes crusher and eventual winner russell1na. The main event produced a fairly deep run which ended in a cash for 19th place and a couple of reasonably chunky bounties collected along the way. I finished off with another cash for 9th in the ever elusive quest to take down a £2.20 deepstack. Still no champagne moments as yet but, as a tourney novice, I'm pleased to be clocking up a few deep runs at least. Total tournament profits from the night came in at £53.36.
Things like the Triple Takedown and other micro buy-in events shouldn't really be part of my schedule in all honesty. Even if I turned out to be a long term mega-crusher in these, they still wouldn't be making much of a contribution overall to a £10k profit target. However, poker is about more than just money for me. I thoroughly enjoy playing in these and all the more so when they come with the added spice of the challenges/league tables run from this forum. So there .
After the tourneys I played a teeny weeny bit of cash (really must get my act together here) and booked a small win of £23.40.
Finally, as it was Monday, I have the first rakeback contribution to add. I got £15 from the pentagon promo and £6.16 in reward payments for my frankly pathetic efforts in accruing 616 points last week. To put that into a little perspective, I was a priority player for the majority of last year and would often be making 616 points in just one night. #Slacker
If you've managed not to nod off yet, thanks for reading .
Nice work! Think the 2.2 deepstacks are really great to practice if you're not especially comfortable with all different stages of a tournament. You can test things out in the later stages and if you make some huge ICM punt it's not going to be too devastating!
That's a good read, a good Monday night overall, & that £21.16 in Rewards/Pentagon helps, too.
"Not about the money"?
That's an interesting point, might start a thread around that.
Thanks Tikay. It's nothing spectacular as yet but it's good to be moving in the right direction.
I think it's very rare that poker can only ever be just about the money. Poker is tough and it has got ever more difficult to be a winning player as the years have passed (especially online). To become a consistent long-term winner these days requires such a lot of work away from the tables that without poker having some sort of intrinsic appeal beyond monetary gain, the financial rewards are unlikely to ever be reaped.
I also don't know what I'm talking about but for me jam every time! The opportunity to try to double up, I can't resist...( remember that if we ever play...)
I'm fairly new to playing- 2 years in- so feel the time is right to keep a proper Profit/Loss for the year.( rather than the delusional view I have about how much i win, when really I think I might be down overall...)
My 2018 target is to win seats to the SPT events I can make and win enough additional seats to cover the accommodation/travel and the biggest expenditure; beer for Hanson, SidV79, Misty4me and EssexPhil!! ( Oh yes, AND breakeven for the year!)
So far 2017 Brighton - 6 seats(2 playing seats, £880 cash), Manchester 2018- 3 seats (1* day 1a+ £440 cash) so on track to buy the craft brewery needed to satisfy Phil....
So hope to meet you in Manchester?
May, like most men's urine, you run golden this year!!
Update! as of last night,Manchester now 4 seats( another £220 cash) and the bonus of 2 semi seats- woohoo!( £48 cash!)
Nice work! Think the 2.2 deepstacks are really great to practice if you're not especially comfortable with all different stages of a tournament. You can test things out in the later stages and if you make some huge ICM punt it's not going to be too devastating!
Thanks Angmar. I really enjoy these and just wish there some bigger buy-in options in the schedule with similar structures. Other than the £2.20's, I think it's just the £5.50 mega stack on a Friday or the main event on a Sunday (which is a touch on the rich side for a 'trainee' like myself) that are deep structured freezeouts. If I'm missing any though, do please shout!
I also don't know what I'm talking about but for me jam every time! The opportunity to try to double up, I can't resist...( remember that if we ever play...)
I'm fairly new to playing- 2 years in- so feel the time is right to keep a proper Profit/Loss for the year.( rather than the delusional view I have about how much i win, when really I think I might be down overall...)
My 2018 target is to win seats to the SPT events I can make and win enough additional seats to cover the accommodation/travel and the biggest expenditure; beer for Hanson, SidV79, Misty4me and EssexPhil!! ( Oh yes, AND breakeven for the year!)
So far 2017 Brighton - 6 seats(2 playing seats, £880 cash), Manchester 2018- 3 seats (1* day 1a+ £440 cash) so on track to buy the craft brewery needed to satisfy Phil....
So hope to meet you in Manchester?
May, like most men's urine, you run golden this year!!
Update! as of last night,Manchester now 4 seats( another £220 cash) and the bonus of 2 semi seats- woohoo!( £48 cash!)
That's awesome stuff madprof - very well done indeed!
I'd never realised you could just keep winning tickets and get the cash equivalent (once you've secured more seats than you have bottoms that is I assume?). I might have to remove the tick from that little box in the lobby that says 'hide satellites' .
Nice work! Think the 2.2 deepstacks are really great to practice if you're not especially comfortable with all different stages of a tournament. You can test things out in the later stages and if you make some huge ICM punt it's not going to be too devastating!
Thanks Angmar. I really enjoy these and just wish there some bigger buy-in options in the schedule with similar structures. Other than the £2.20's, I think it's just the £5.50 mega stack on a Friday or the main event on a Sunday (which is a touch on the rich side for a 'trainee' like myself) that are deep structured freezeouts. If I'm missing any though, do please shout!
Sunday Mini!!!!!! £11 Deepstack - usually £600+ for 1st £5.5 Deepstack - think it's Sunday only but must admit I've not played it in a couple of months - used to get around 40 runners so get some fun ICM spots where min-cash bubble and ft bubble are the same thing
Nice work! Think the 2.2 deepstacks are really great to practice if you're not especially comfortable with all different stages of a tournament. You can test things out in the later stages and if you make some huge ICM punt it's not going to be too devastating!
Thanks Angmar. I really enjoy these and just wish there some bigger buy-in options in the schedule with similar structures. Other than the £2.20's, I think it's just the £5.50 mega stack on a Friday or the main event on a Sunday (which is a touch on the rich side for a 'trainee' like myself) that are deep structured freezeouts. If I'm missing any though, do please shout!
Sunday Mini!!!!!! £11 Deepstack - usually £600+ for 1st £5.5 Deepstack - think it's Sunday only but must admit I've not played it in a couple of months - used to get around 40 runners so get some fun ICM spots where min-cash bubble and ft bubble are the same thing
I forgot the mini - I played it on Sunday too lol! Didn't realise there may be a £5.50 deepstack knocking around somewhere as well though so thanks for that - I'll keep an eye out. I've played a few of the 'standard' £5.50 freezeouts (even managed to win one a week or two back ) but the deeper games are definitely my fave.
Very well played getting yourself past the bubble of the main event, the best thing about cashing in this main is you a novice MTT player achieved something tournament genius mr mattbates couldn't do.
I agree with what you say about those micro triple takedown MTTs, they aren't much use in helping with your BR but they great fun to play.
best of luck with the challenge, im gonna thrown it out there and say this will be completed by July if anyone wants the over/under.. ??
i was going to start a very similar diary at the start of the year and probably still will do something when i know what to do. I had a profit challenge in mind but as you have started yours i may mix it up somewhat, still undecided. Other ideas would be lower stakes to higher stakes cash as see how far we can go with x roll but im not sure enough volume through the stakes etc. anyway all the best dude
best of luck with the challenge, im gonna thrown it out there and say this will be completed by July if anyone wants the over/under.. ??
i was going to start a very similar diary at the start of the year and probably still will do something when i know what to do. I had a profit challenge in mind but as you have started yours i may mix it up somewhat, still undecided. Other ideas would be lower stakes to higher stakes cash as see how far we can go with x roll but im not sure enough volume through the stakes etc. anyway all the best dude
That would be worth a read. Make it reasonably tough though, like a 10 buyins rule or summat. Start a 4nl with £40 then move up once you hit 10 buyins for next level etc.
Comments
Cash: +£.67.87
MTT's: +£35.88
Rakeback: £0.00
Will you not get some Rewards Money today to add to that?
Another thing to bear in mind, is that often (particularly in this tournament) people who have been clinging on to a min-cash often go a bit wild and jam/call far, far wider post-bubble meaning double/triple/QUADRUPLE ups etc. become more common. In my experience, at least.
Keep up the good work.
I'm fairly new to playing- 2 years in- so feel the time is right to keep a proper Profit/Loss for the year.( rather than the delusional view I have about how much i win, when really I think I might be down overall...)
My 2018 target is to win seats to the SPT events I can make and win enough additional seats to cover the accommodation/travel and the biggest expenditure; beer for Hanson, SidV79, Misty4me and EssexPhil!! ( Oh yes, AND breakeven for the year!)
So far 2017 Brighton - 6 seats(2 playing seats, £880 cash),
Manchester 2018- 3 seats (1* day 1a+ £440 cash) so on track to buy the craft brewery needed to satisfy Phil....
So hope to meet you in Manchester?
May, like most men's urine, you run golden this year!!
I'm shoving in that spot, but on the bubble of a seat to Las Vegas, I might have accidentally timed out. Floppa whoppa!
Latest update.
I was slightly busier on the tourney front on Monday night. I played the three Triple Takedown (TT) events, the mini, the main and the now obligatory £2.20 deepstack. It wasn't looking good at the start as I made very early exits from both TT1 and TT2 when QQ and KK just looked too pretty to let go of on low flops facing big action. My spidey senses knew better really, but I still found myself having to press the call button just to prove to myself that I was right all along. After giving myself a ticking off things improved a bit. TT3 went much better but I rather annoyingly bubbled the final table for a 7th place finish. The mini saw a mid-stage exit but nearly paid for itself with 2 bounties bagged before being unceremoniously ejected by high stakes crusher and eventual winner russell1na. The main event produced a fairly deep run which ended in a cash for 19th place and a couple of reasonably chunky bounties collected along the way. I finished off with another cash for 9th in the ever elusive quest to take down a £2.20 deepstack. Still no champagne moments as yet but, as a tourney novice, I'm pleased to be clocking up a few deep runs at least. Total tournament profits from the night came in at £53.36.
Things like the Triple Takedown and other micro buy-in events shouldn't really be part of my schedule in all honesty. Even if I turned out to be a long term mega-crusher in these, they still wouldn't be making much of a contribution overall to a £10k profit target. However, poker is about more than just money for me. I thoroughly enjoy playing in these and all the more so when they come with the added spice of the challenges/league tables run from this forum. So there
After the tourneys I played a teeny weeny bit of cash (really must get my act together here) and booked a small win of £23.40.
Finally, as it was Monday, I have the first rakeback contribution to add. I got £15 from the pentagon promo and £6.16 in reward payments for my frankly pathetic efforts in accruing 616 points last week. To put that into a little perspective, I was a priority player for the majority of last year and would often be making 616 points in just one night. #Slacker
If you've managed not to nod off yet, thanks for reading
Progress so far:
Cash: +£.91.27
MTT's: +£89.24
Rakeback: £21.16
Total: +£201.67
That's a good read, a good Monday night overall, & that £21.16 in Rewards/Pentagon helps, too.
"Not about the money"?
That's an interesting point, might start a thread around that.
I think it's very rare that poker can only ever be just about the money. Poker is tough and it has got ever more difficult to be a winning player as the years have passed (especially online). To become a consistent long-term winner these days requires such a lot of work away from the tables that without poker having some sort of intrinsic appeal beyond monetary gain, the financial rewards are unlikely to ever be reaped.
I'd never realised you could just keep winning tickets and get the cash equivalent (once you've secured more seats than you have bottoms that is I assume?). I might have to remove the tick from that little box in the lobby that says 'hide satellites'
£5.5 Deepstack - think it's Sunday only but must admit I've not played it in a couple of months - used to get around 40 runners so get some fun ICM spots where min-cash bubble and ft bubble are the same thing
I agree with what you say about those micro triple takedown MTTs, they aren't much use in helping with your BR but they great fun to play.
Your general attitude and clear love for just playing the game, whether it be a 2.20 deepy or main event, is refreshing to see.
I'd say it's safe bet that we are all rooting for you and I'm pretty sure that you will succeed in this challenge if you stick at it.
i was going to start a very similar diary at the start of the year and probably still will do something when i know what to do. I had a profit challenge in mind but as you have started yours i may mix it up somewhat, still undecided. Other ideas would be lower stakes to higher stakes cash as see how far we can go with x roll but im not sure enough volume through the stakes etc.
anyway all the best dude