You didn't comply by ToS. ToS that has been approved by the UKGC. Confiscated funds are not kept by Stars, but instead they distribute it to various charities.
I have been a member of numerous poker and gambling sites for the last 15 years and none have asked me to provide similar documentation at any time.
If there are regulations regarding id, shouldn't they ask for it all up front.
Compliance has changed a lot in the last few years, especially in the last few months. Last week I had to provide ID/Bills to even deposit on a site; others have very strict loss limits in place that won't be removed until you provide the documentation.
You have created this situation yourself. Using anecdotal evidence from 9 years ago to make your case really holds no weight. Think of how much the world has changed since then.
You could have provided the info and then after your withdrawal was approved, then made a right to be forgotten request where they would have had to destroy all of your data by law.
I would imagine that even if Stars kept SkyBet running as a separate entity, your SkyBet account will be closed because of this incident.
The terms are so broad because they have to cover a multitude of different scenarios. In the absence of fraud, money-laundering or similar, they have to return your money. They are entitled to terminate your contract for your refusal, but to keep your money is not correct.
The terms are so broad because they have to cover a multitude of different scenarios. In the absence of fraud, money-laundering or similar, they have to return your money. They are entitled to terminate your contract for your refusal, but to keep your money is not correct.
You didn't comply by ToS. ToS that has been approved by the UKGC. Confiscated funds are not kept by Stars, but instead they distribute it to various charities.
I have been a member of numerous poker and gambling sites for the last 15 years and none have asked me to provide similar documentation at any time.
If there are regulations regarding id, shouldn't they ask for it all up front.
Compliance has changed a lot in the last few years, especially in the last few months. Last week I had to provide ID/Bills to even deposit on a site; others have very strict loss limits in place that won't be removed until you provide the documentation.
You have created this situation yourself. Using anecdotal evidence from 9 years ago to make your case really holds no weight. Think of how much the world has changed since then.
You could have provided the info and then after your withdrawal was approved, then made a right to be forgotten request where they would have had to destroy all of your data by law.
I would imagine that even if Stars kept SkyBet running as a separate entity, your SkyBet account will be closed because of this incident.
To be fair Scotty you seem to know a lot about this, but your argument is not based on what actually happened. If you look at their email posted earlier in the thread, what happened was as a result of their own internal security process, this was clearly stated. They say my account did not pass a screening process. They have completely refused to elaborate on this, and refuse point blank to tell me what I have done wrong. I don't believe that this can be seen as acting transparently. Had I done something wrong, I would be the first to hold my hands up. I think if they had good reason for this action they would have let me know what I had done. All I have done with this account is made plenty of deposits and some withdrawals. I therefore cant be sure whether it was the depositing, or the withdrawing that made me fail the screening process. I feel it is a bit like going to court and being sent to jail without knowing what the charge was. Or maybe my bank freezing my account and taking my money because I had made some withdrawals. The action they immediately took was to freeze my account. I then politely made it clear that I wouldn't be supplying the documentation, and requested that they return the balance of my account. They sent me email after email requesting the documents. It was only after I sent them copies of my posts on this thread that they finally got the needle, and actually closed my account. They have emailed me today to confirm that they are not prepared to tell me what I have done, and that they are now considering returning my money. As this occurred in February I cant expect them to rush. I appreciate how the world has changed of late, with a massive outcry over the amount of our personal details being held by social media, and other websites. With all due respect the fact that you are prepared to supply your id documentation to all and sundry, will not affect my opinion on the subject. A copper pulls you over in a car and tells you that you have got a fixed penalty, you say what for, and he says I am not telling you. That sounds fair. To be absolutely clear, their own internal security process, I didn't pass a screening process, they wont tell me why, and they might keep my money. That in itself is an improvement as the previous email seemed to say that they were keeping it.
After review of your account details and all the information we had available it was determined that your account did not pass our internal security checks and as a result it was closed. We cannot go into details of our internal security procedures but can assure you that we do not make these decisions without proper review.
Since there is a balance in your account, we have requested management to review your account for a possible withdrawal of the funds.
We will email you back with an update as soon as the case has been reviewed.
Best Regards,
Jorge Mora Stars Security
Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
Yes please I am concerned that my account did not pass the screening process, could you please explain further, and the reason it didn't pass.
Kind Regards
Tony Hayes
On Tuesday, 22 May 2018 16:07:31 BST, security@starsaccount.uk wrote:
Hello Anthony, Thank you for your email. In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts. We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account. There would not be any further information provided regarding this. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Regards,
Jose Stars Security
Sent: 05/22/2018 07:10:24 To: Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
Could you please explain the context in which my account has failed your recent screening process.
Kind Regards
Tony Hayes
Hello , Thank you for your email. In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts. We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account. We would like to take this opportunity to advise you of our Terms of Service regarding your responsibility as an account owner. As stated in section 8 under "Breach":
4.3. In compliance with our regulatory requirements and in order for you to access and use our software and/or our services through any of our websites you will need to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) as well as consenting us (or third parties acting on our behalf) to have access to or make use of your location data and/or such other data or information that may be derived from your device/computer, to enable the Service/software to be made available to you. You hereby consent to us (or third parties acting on our behalf) to access and use such data for the purposes outlined above. You are not permitted to use our software and/or services if you do not wish to be bound by this provision. Rational Group will process your personal details in compliance with the data protection laws and regulations of the Isle of Man, all in accordance with and as set out in our Privacy Policy.
8.1. Without prejudice to any other rights, if a User breaches in whole or in part any provision contained herein, Rational Group or any other company within the Group which provides services to the User reserves the right to take such action as it sees fit, including terminating this Agreement or any other agreement in place with the User, immediately blocking the User's access to the Service or to any other service offered by the Group, terminating such User's account on the Sites or on any other sites operated by the Group, seizing all monies held in the User's account on the Sites or on any other sites operated by the Group and/or taking legal action against such User.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
I have had to provide masses of documentation in order to unblock my Partypoker account despite the fact that I've had it since 2008. It took about 2 days and went smoothly.
Why pick a fight, especially one you cant win, when you don't have to. Or is this just YOUR Rage against the Machine moment. C'mon now two fingers in the air, face north West and scream "Fk you I wont do what you tell me".
Whilst I really sympathise with your personal opinion that Stars don't NEED this information, at the end of the day, when the little man takes on the machine its the machine that rolls on relentlessly.
Life is full of choices. I have made mine in this instance. I have clearly done nothing wrong. They wont tell me what I am supposed to have done, or the reason I have failed their screening process. They appear to be making it up as they go along. If there is something wrong with depositing, withdrawing, and playing poker, on a poker site, then everyone fails their screening process. If this was down to new regulations, as Scotty suggested, and everyone had to comply, I might have taken a different view. If I had genuinely done something wrong, I would have no argument.
Can anyone explain this? How does asking customers to produce extra documentation help in any way? I have covered the standard checks that a bank carries out in a previous post, prior to opening an account or approving a credit card, so I am not going to repeat them. So if you take these into account, how does providing all the extra stuff they have asked for help. Are they saying they were happy that I was who I said I was 12 years ago when I opened the account, and the intervening 12 years, but suddenly they have doubts? I have never deposited using someone elses card, or withdrawn to someone elses bank account. How could my account not pass a screening process? Should they be more transparent? Should they be able to hold you to ransom at a whim? If I have in some way contravened their internal security rules, how does further proof of my identity help? The other day they sent me some money to compensate me for some collusion that had apparently gone on. This was conditional upon them not answering any questions, or providing any further information. What will they answer questions on? Should they change their name to MI6 poker?
Haysie. I understand your angst, but you need to calm down on this.
This forum is not the wisest place to berate Stars, particularly on this topic. I would not want you to win a battle and lose a war-£300 is not worth being barred from Sky Poker once the takeover is complete. It also places this forum at risk.
I am NOT saying give up-just stop providing info on here that they can use...
For security reasons and to complete your Stars Account verification, we kindly ask you to please provide us with a clear and legible image of your driver's license, front and back, or other government-issued photo identification.
Please scan or make a digital photo of your identification and send it to us by e-mail.
We appreciate your cooperation regarding this matter.
Tony, you should never show your e-Mail address on a public forum - all sorts of search engines, weirdos & the like will pick it up & you'll not only be plagued by trolls, you might imperil the security of your personal details.
I'm going to remove it for you by editing it out on this occasion.
It's no skin off my nose mate, but it's seriously dangerous, & I'd strongly advise against ever showing it publically.
Om a similar topic, & not trying to be awkward, but this does not just apply to @HAYSIE, many others are guilty of the same thing.
If you have a communication with an Online Gaming Site - or any Online Business really - they do not - ever, EVER, publish that communication, as it's private, between you & them. So, really, it's out of order to publish stuff they send to you, too. Cake & eat it, & all that.
People who post transcripts of chats with Customer Care or even copies of e-Mails from the site are out of order. They will NEVER publish your communications, & it ought to cut both ways. Not sure many will agree with me on this, but that's how it is.......
Tony, you should never show your e-Mail address on a public forum - all sorts of search engines, weirdos & the like will pick it up & you'll not only be plagued by trolls, you might imperil the security of your personal details.
I'm going to remove it for you by editing it out on this occasion.
It's no skin off my nose mate, but it's seriously dangerous, & I'd strongly advise against ever showing it publically.
Om a similar topic, & not trying to be awkward, but this does not just apply to @HAYSIE, many others are guilty of the same thing.
If you have a communication with an Online Gaming Site - or any Online Business really - they do not - ever, EVER, publish that communication, as it's private, between you & them. So, really, it's out of order to publish stuff they send to you, too. Cake & eat it, & all that.
People who post transcripts of chats with Customer Care or even copies of e-Mails from the site are out of order. They will NEVER publish your communications, & it ought to cut both ways. Not sure many will agree with me on this, but that's how it is.......
I am not sure that I agree with this, but will respect your wishes and refrain from this in the future.
It's all about KYC. Nothing to do with fried chicken, it means Know Your Customer, a relatively new thing. It applies to ALL GAMING SITES equally, & is the crux of the problem you are having with 'Stars. I can assure you 100%, Stars are just trying to keep the right side of the Regulator in this matter - they have no choice.
When you opened your 'Stars Account, KYC never existed. It does now. It is a thorough PITA, but the Regulator will jump on any operator who does not fully obey KYC.
There are two reasons why I couldn't agree with your explanation,
Firstly, they implied that I had done something wrong. I was being asked to provide the id documentation as a result of not passing the screening process. Had they asked me to provide it due to new regulations, I might well have felt differently.
Secondly, as I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, there was an innocent occurrence in 2009, which I admit may have looked suspicious. This resulted in them freezing my account, and insisting on me supplying the exact same documentation that they are looking for this time around.
I supplied it to them in 2009, as I felt it was my fault.
You have to assume that they were happy with the documentation, and that there was no doubt about who I was, as they unfroze my account, and allowed me to continue playing. Any deposits I have made since have been made with the same card, any withdrawals to the same bank account. So how could they doubt me now? In fact if I had supplied them the documentation this time around it would have been exactly the same as it was in 2009. I live at the same address, use the same bank, have the same credit card, have the same driving licence, and the utility bill would be applicable to the same address. If these checks are meant to establish beyond doubt someones identity, then how many times can you justify doing them?
On the 2nd item, yes, you & I may differ, as I was educated in England, not Wales, so I have grasp of etiquette.
Also, you are quite old, so probably very stubborn. I've actually met old people, some are very odd indeed.
It is far too late for you to be regretting how much you may have benefitted from a good Welsh Education. I usually keep this quiet, but I went to school with the Archbishop of Canterbury.
I do understand your frustration Haysie but with these new data laws coming - verifying ID _ and random screening seems to be getting more common.
I,ve just spent ages sending off a utilty bill as I rarely get them anymore and couldn,t download a PDF file with my address showing on my online bank statement.
I,m not a teckie and struggle with these things.
Maybe a thread somewhere in another part of the forum to help with all issues relating to this would be a good idea
Comments
You didn't comply by ToS. ToS that has been approved by the UKGC. Confiscated funds are not kept by Stars, but instead they distribute it to various charities.
I have been a member of numerous poker and gambling sites for the last 15 years and none have asked me to provide similar documentation at any time.
If there are regulations regarding id, shouldn't they ask for it all up front.
Compliance has changed a lot in the last few years, especially in the last few months. Last week I had to provide ID/Bills to even deposit on a site; others have very strict loss limits in place that won't be removed until you provide the documentation.
You have created this situation yourself. Using anecdotal evidence from 9 years ago to make your case really holds no weight. Think of how much the world has changed since then.
You could have provided the info and then after your withdrawal was approved, then made a right to be forgotten request where they would have had to destroy all of your data by law.
I would imagine that even if Stars kept SkyBet running as a separate entity, your SkyBet account will be closed because of this incident.
In the absence of fraud, money-laundering or similar, they have to return your money. They are entitled to terminate your contract for your refusal, but to keep your money is not correct.
If you look at their email posted earlier in the thread, what happened was as a result of their own internal security process, this was clearly stated.
They say my account did not pass a screening process. They have completely refused to elaborate on this, and refuse point blank to tell me what I have done wrong.
I don't believe that this can be seen as acting transparently. Had I done something wrong, I would be the first to hold my hands up. I think if they had good reason for this action they would have let me know what I had done.
All I have done with this account is made plenty of deposits and some withdrawals. I therefore cant be sure whether it was the depositing, or the withdrawing that made me fail the screening process.
I feel it is a bit like going to court and being sent to jail without knowing what the charge was. Or maybe my bank freezing my account and taking my money because I had made some withdrawals.
The action they immediately took was to freeze my account. I then politely made it clear that I wouldn't be supplying the documentation, and requested that they return the balance of my account.
They sent me email after email requesting the documents.
It was only after I sent them copies of my posts on this thread that they finally got the needle, and actually closed my account.
They have emailed me today to confirm that they are not prepared to tell me what I have done, and that they are now considering returning my money.
As this occurred in February I cant expect them to rush.
I appreciate how the world has changed of late, with a massive outcry over the amount of our personal details being held by social media, and other websites.
With all due respect the fact that you are prepared to supply your id documentation to all and sundry, will not affect my opinion on the subject.
A copper pulls you over in a car and tells you that you have got a fixed penalty, you say what for, and he says I am not telling you. That sounds fair.
To be absolutely clear, their own internal security process, I didn't pass a screening process, they wont tell me why, and they might keep my money. That in itself is an improvement as the previous email seemed to say that they were keeping it.
After review of your account details and all the information we had available it was determined that your account did not pass our internal security checks and as a result it was closed. We cannot go into details of our internal security procedures but can assure you that we do not make these decisions without proper review.
Since there is a balance in your account, we have requested management to review your account for a possible withdrawal of the funds.
We will email you back with an update as soon as the case has been reviewed.
Best Regards,
Jorge Mora
Stars Security
Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
Yes please I am concerned that my account did not pass the screening process, could you please explain further, and the reason it didn't pass.
Kind Regards
Tony Hayes
On Tuesday, 22 May 2018 16:07:31 BST, security@starsaccount.uk wrote:
Hello Anthony,
Thank you for your email.
In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts.
We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account. There would not be any further information provided regarding this.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Regards,
Jose
Stars Security
Sent: 05/22/2018 07:10:24
To:
Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
Could you please explain the context in which my account has failed your recent screening process.
Kind Regards
Tony Hayes
Hello ,
Thank you for your email.
In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts.
We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account.
We would like to take this opportunity to advise you of our Terms of Service regarding your responsibility as an account owner. As stated in section 8 under "Breach":
4.3. In compliance with our regulatory requirements and in order for you to access and use our software and/or our services through any of our websites you will need to provide us with certain personal details about yourself (including details regarding your methods of payment) as well as consenting us (or third parties acting on our behalf) to have access to or make use of your location data and/or such other data or information that may be derived from your device/computer, to enable the Service/software to be made available to you. You hereby consent to us (or third parties acting on our behalf) to access and use such data for the purposes outlined above. You are not permitted to use our software and/or services if you do not wish to be bound by this provision. Rational Group will process your personal details in compliance with the data protection laws and regulations of the Isle of Man, all in accordance with and as set out in our Privacy Policy.
8.1. Without prejudice to any other rights, if a User breaches in whole or in part any provision contained herein, Rational Group or any other company within the Group which provides services to the User reserves the right to take such action as it sees fit, including terminating this Agreement or any other agreement in place with the User, immediately blocking the User's access to the Service or to any other service offered by the Group, terminating such User's account on the Sites or on any other sites operated by the Group, seizing all monies held in the User's account on the Sites or on any other sites operated by the Group and/or taking legal action against such User.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
Regards,
Kevin
Stars Security
Why pick a fight, especially one you cant win, when you don't have to. Or is this just YOUR Rage against the Machine moment. C'mon now two fingers in the air, face north West and scream "Fk you I wont do what you tell me".
Whilst I really sympathise with your personal opinion that Stars don't NEED this information, at the end of the day, when the little man takes on the machine its the machine that rolls on relentlessly.
Yours in poker
Mark
I have clearly done nothing wrong.
They wont tell me what I am supposed to have done, or the reason I have failed their screening process.
They appear to be making it up as they go along.
If there is something wrong with depositing, withdrawing, and playing poker, on a poker site, then everyone fails their screening process.
If this was down to new regulations, as Scotty suggested, and everyone had to comply, I might have taken a different view.
If I had genuinely done something wrong, I would have no argument.
How does asking customers to produce extra documentation help in any way?
I have covered the standard checks that a bank carries out in a previous post, prior to opening an account or approving a credit card, so I am not going to repeat them.
So if you take these into account, how does providing all the extra stuff they have asked for help.
Are they saying they were happy that I was who I said I was 12 years ago when I opened the account, and the intervening 12 years, but suddenly they have doubts?
I have never deposited using someone elses card, or withdrawn to someone elses bank account.
How could my account not pass a screening process?
Should they be more transparent?
Should they be able to hold you to ransom at a whim?
If I have in some way contravened their internal security rules, how does further proof of my identity help?
The other day they sent me some money to compensate me for some collusion that had apparently gone on. This was conditional upon them not answering any questions, or providing any further information.
What will they answer questions on?
Should they change their name to MI6 poker?
This forum is not the wisest place to berate Stars, particularly on this topic. I would not want you to win a battle and lose a war-£300 is not worth being barred from Sky Poker once the takeover is complete. It also places this forum at risk.
I am NOT saying give up-just stop providing info on here that they can use...
Hope you get your money back
security@starsaccount.uk
To:
EDITEDOUT
23 May at 13:00
Hello Anthony,
We hope this email finds you well.
For security reasons and to complete your Stars Account verification, we kindly ask you to please provide us with a clear and legible image of your driver's license, front and back, or other government-issued photo identification.
Please scan or make a digital photo of your identification and send it to us by e-mail.
We appreciate your cooperation regarding this matter.
Regards,
Amelie
Stars Security
@HAYSIE
Tony, you should never show your e-Mail address on a public forum - all sorts of search engines, weirdos & the like will pick it up & you'll not only be plagued by trolls, you might imperil the security of your personal details.
I'm going to remove it for you by editing it out on this occasion.
It's no skin off my nose mate, but it's seriously dangerous, & I'd strongly advise against ever showing it publically.
Om a similar topic, & not trying to be awkward, but this does not just apply to @HAYSIE, many others are guilty of the same thing.
If you have a communication with an Online Gaming Site - or any Online Business really - they do not - ever, EVER, publish that communication, as it's private, between you & them. So, really, it's out of order to publish stuff they send to you, too. Cake & eat it, & all that.
People who post transcripts of chats with Customer Care or even copies of e-Mails from the site are out of order. They will NEVER publish your communications, & it ought to cut both ways. Not sure many will agree with me on this, but that's how it is.......
Thanks Tony.
On the 2nd item, yes, you & I may differ, as I was educated in England, not Wales, so I have grasp of etiquette.
Also, you are quite old, so probably very stubborn. I've actually met old people, some are very odd indeed.
It's all about KYC. Nothing to do with fried chicken, it means Know Your Customer, a relatively new thing. It applies to ALL GAMING SITES equally, & is the crux of the problem you are having with 'Stars. I can assure you 100%, Stars are just trying to keep the right side of the Regulator in this matter - they have no choice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer
When you opened your 'Stars Account, KYC never existed. It does now. It is a thorough PITA, but the Regulator will jump on any operator who does not fully obey KYC.
Firstly, they implied that I had done something wrong. I was being asked to provide the id documentation as a result of not passing the screening process. Had they asked me to provide it due to new regulations, I might well have felt differently.
Secondly, as I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, there was an innocent occurrence in 2009, which I admit may have looked suspicious. This resulted in them freezing my account, and insisting on me supplying the exact same documentation that they are looking for this time around.
I supplied it to them in 2009, as I felt it was my fault.
You have to assume that they were happy with the documentation, and that there was no doubt about who I was, as they unfroze my account, and allowed me to continue playing.
Any deposits I have made since have been made with the same card, any withdrawals to the same bank account. So how could they doubt me now?
In fact if I had supplied them the documentation this time around it would have been exactly the same as it was in 2009.
I live at the same address, use the same bank, have the same credit card, have the same driving licence, and the utility bill would be applicable to the same address.
If these checks are meant to establish beyond doubt someones identity, then how many times can you justify doing them?
I usually keep this quiet, but I went to school with the Archbishop of Canterbury.
I,ve just spent ages sending off a utilty bill as I rarely get them anymore and couldn,t download a PDF file with my address showing on my online bank statement.
I,m not a teckie and struggle with these things.
Maybe a thread somewhere in another part of the forum to help with all issues relating to this would be a good idea
P