Yikes, groan at the incoming bad beat stories. I get told them whilst I'm walking, eating, talking a leak, all sorts.
A chap ought to be able to eat or evacuate without being told them, but some folks can't help themselves. They mean no harm, that's the thing.
It's not the worst thing in the world, just a minor irritation, which, like a pair of tight shoes, or a dodgy mother-in-law, worsens over time. Little doses are fine.
Yikes, groan at the incoming bad beat stories. I get told them whilst I'm walking, eating, talking a leak, all sorts. A chap ought to be able to eat or evacuate without being told them, but some folks can't help themselves. They mean no harm, that's the thing. It's not the worst thing in the world, just a minor irritation, which, like a pair of tight shoes, or a dodgy mother-in-law, worsens over time. Little doses are fine. Posted by Tikay10
Stick a Morrisey tape in your Walkman and put your headphones on.
I have a question for everyone regarding a hand from an £11 dym tonight.
Great game has gone on a while, 600/300 level.We are four handed, I am in bb 1st or 2nd in chips , small stack open shoves just under 2000 chips, sb raises , I have both covered , sat with Ah Kh Jh 2S, i decided to fold.
As it turns out I have exact same hand as sb, except for suits, however, I would have won the high with a flush and split the low with the sb , thus knocking out the shortie. The shortie takes the high and as it happens a few hands later I am the one who is knocked out in fourth.
Was I correct or not in folding? was it too tight? at the time I thought it was the correct thing to do, am I just annoyed I lost and looking at the result?
I have a question for everyone regarding a hand from an £11 dym tonight. Great game has gone on a while, 600/300 level.We are four handed, I am in bb 1st or 2nd in chips , small stack open shoves just under 2000 chips, sb raises , I have both covered , sat with Ah Kh Jh 2S, i decided to fold. As it turns out I have exact same hand as sb, except for suits, however, I would have won the high with a flush and split the low with the sb , thus knocking out the shortie. The shortie takes the high and as it happens a few hands later I am the one who is knocked out in fourth. Was I correct or not in folding? was it too tight? at the time I thought it was the correct thing to do, am I just annoyed I lost and looking at the result? Ant thoughts? Nick Posted by pompeynic
I have a question for everyone regarding a hand from an £11 dym tonight. Great game has gone on a while, 600/300 level.We are four handed, I am in bb 1st or 2nd in chips , small stack open shoves just under 2000 chips, sb raises , I have both covered , sat with Ah Kh Jh 2S, i decided to fold. As it turns out I have exact same hand as sb, except for suits, however, I would have won the high with a flush and split the low with the sb , thus knocking out the shortie. The shortie takes the high and as it happens a few hands later I am the one who is knocked out in fourth. Was I correct or not in folding? was it too tight? at the time I thought it was the correct thing to do, am I just annoyed I lost and looking at the result? Ant thoughts? Nick Posted by pompeynic
Morning Nick,
A clear fold for me. I think, as you note at the foot of your post, it's results orientated thinking. MOST of the time the fold is correct, imo.
What a great game that was, though, some terrific play, & it was swinging & swonging in every direction, 4 handed there were 4 different chip leaders inside 2 orbits.
If I had lost that, I think I'd have been as disappointed as you were, it's perfectly natural.
When we are 4 handed, with blinds 400-800, so average stack 3.75 Bigs, it's largely a matter of being dealt the right hands & doing the right thing, & I think all 4 of us did that. The rest is down to luck.
On the subject of PLO8 analysis, I have only played 1 PLO8 game so far this week a £5er.
On the bubble.
I was in a tough spot. I had a little under 2k chips, and had eon to my left and then you both with a little over 2k chips. To my right was a chipped up player who seemed to be playing for all the chips and didnt know where the fold button was.
I wasn't get walked, sb was minraising everything if unopened.
You and eon were not raising into chippie, and I figured you would be right at the very top of your range and potting if you ever did.
So basically my stack was shrinking and you and eon were holidng steady.
If chippie was folding a fair share of hands I would have at least had opportunities to steal from you and eon or hopefully find a hand worthy of getting all-in pre with.
I figured short of getting dealt a monster I was happy to take anyone on with, my only option was going to be to take on chippie who must be raising light.
So I went to war over a chippie minraise with something like AQJ2 double suited. Sure enough I was up against some middling cards and ahead on the high and low but lost to a hi only board to a flush. One earlier time I had a similar balanced but not quite so strong hand and called the minraise - missed the flop by a mile and had to fold to a c-bet.
Situationally I dont think I could have done anything else? You and eon were not the ones under pressure and were not going to do anything silly. The onus was on me as the short stack to take the risk. Am I right? Normally I would looked for an unopened pot to raise into you and eon with, I just wasn't getting those and when I was utg I never had a hand worthy of taking on chippie in the bb.
I'd say you did exactly right. There were no "free spots", we know Chippie was raising with airballs (so you were likely to be ahead - & you were, good read), & Eon & I are never gonna attack the Chippie, we are going to attack YOU. Played it perfect, got unlucky, next case.
I feel a bit of a fraud, dispensing advice like some wise old sage who knows the game - my results at the moment are nothing like good enough.
I'm really concentrating, & thinking about my game, but results wise, I'm just treading water. My account at present is almost identical to the figure it was on January 1st. So I've played probably 1,000 games since Jan 1 & not made a penny. Pretty terrible, really.
Enjoying it more than ever though. Can't wait to start my session every day, full of hope & enthusiasm, but I just can't seem to string a run of good results together.
The magical mysteries of poker are so wonderfully perplexing.
Never feel a fraud for dispensing advice, your knowledge and insight are invaluable.
FWIW, I never made a penny online from January the 6th either, so don't feel too disheartened.......Oh wait....that's because i played zero games, as I was away on my hols for 7 weeks(Thin). Probably why you didn't win much, because the value had left the country.
Never fear, I'm back, expect profits to soar in March.
I remember my hand flopped good, & him needing runner-runner perfect perfect.......
I got turned over in Level One of an £11er too, when I got it all-in Pre v Mr Optimistic & he got the jolly lot. Just my luck to run my A-A-2-3 DS into K-8-8-5.
I'm still wading through treacle, barely £40 up in 2016 (& I've received more than that in Rewards Payments), so I'm tinkering with my game, & the more I tinker.......
All good.
Right, tidy up a few things & get today's started, full of hope & optimism as ever.
I feel a bit of a fraud, dispensing advice like some wise old sage who knows the game - my results at the moment are nothing like good enough. I'm really concentrating, & thinking about my game, but results wise, I'm just treading water. My account at present is almost identical to the figure it was on January 1st. So I've played probably 1,000 games since Jan 1 & not made a penny. Pretty terrible, really. Enjoying it more than ever though. Can't wait to start my session every day, full of hope & enthusiasm, but I just can't seem to string a run of good results together. The magical mysteries of poker are so wonderfully perplexing. Posted by Tikay10
online poker, its deffo tough and not getting easier. you have to remember that the sum of ROI at a SNG is -10%. so with you and eon always playing, couple of break even players, your winnings are the rake! personally my winnings are the lowest at the 3.30 games. I find that knowone ever folds, so the only way to win a hand is by the cards. If every hand is contested by 3 regs theres no winning mechanism. lower you have weaker players, and higher (11s) there is/was some element of scared money/survival.
You should join the thurs eve PL08 games. apart from drawing extra players with your presence, those games are good fun (and profitable), there alots of different styles to keep you on your toes etc.
I'm very impressed with how uber generous sky is with these tournaments, and the nice thing is with a favourable run of cards, almost everyone can occasionally score.
we still need/want a bigger (11?) PL08 T once a month though, there are PL08 players around who do make the effort to come to sky when the timings right.
"......You should join the thurs eve PL08 games. apart from drawing extra players with your presence, those games are good fun (and profitable), there alots of different styles to keep you on your toes etc.
I'm very impressed with how uber generous sky is with these tournaments, and the nice thing is with a favourable run of cards, almost everyone can occasionally score......"
Being as you seem to be the biggest winner in these by far, I guess added value is god for you.
More seriously, though.....
I don't seem able to play DYM's & MTT's (effectively) at the same time, so I'll need to take a night off DYM's when I do. It wont be this week though, as I'll be Offline on Thursday night, (& most of Easter) as I have company for Easter.
I do very much enjoy PLO & PLO8 MTT's, but when we play, say, a £1 MTT, many players seem to play it like a Freeroll, so it's quite a challenge to (attempt) to play these things properly. You seem to manage OK though, & in your case, good MTT technique is why you do so well.
There's an interesting thing I often see in the DYM's, where players with solid MTT results don't adjust when they play DYM's, it's a very peculiar thing to see. They have the mindset that they have to WIN a DYM (finish 1st) which of course is a big mistake. We get paid the same for 3rd as 1st, so banging heads with another big stack 4 handed is pretty dumb, or so it seems to me.
I also like to stretch myself for the Rewards Payments each week, which is difficult with mainly £3 & £5 DYM's, & very few £11ers. It adds up to significant income over the long term. I can accumulate, on average, 130 points per session playing PLO8 DYM's, & generally manage to reach 1,000 points (£12.50) most weeks, but if I drop them & play the PLO8 League, I'd struggle to make many points at all on a Thursday.
Sky are uber-generous with the Prizes for that Thursday PLO8 League? Most definitely, but probably best to say little, in case they realise. That's one of the problems The Business has, they don't tend to review these things regularly due to lack of resource, so as long as nobody complains, things tend to get left as they are. Say no more.....
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : online poker, its deffo tough and not getting easier. you have to remember that the sum of ROI at a SNG is -10%. so with you and eon always playing, couple of break even players, your winnings are the rake! personally my winnings are the lowest at the 3.30 games. I find that knowone ever folds, so the only way to win a hand is by the cards. If every hand is contested by 3 regs theres no winning mechanism. lower you have weaker players, and higher (11s) there is/was some element of scared money/survival. You should join the thurs eve PL08 games. apart from drawing extra players with your presence, those games are good fun (and profitable), there alots of different styles to keep you on your toes etc. I'm very impressed with how uber generous sky is with these tournaments, and the nice thing is with a favourable run of cards, almost everyone can occasionally score. we still need/want a bigger (11?) PL08 T once a month though, there are PL08 players around who do make the effort to come to sky when the timings right. Posted by suzy666
I agree, & that's actually an easy one to sort. I'll have a word with them tomorrow & see if they will add one. Personally, I'd not add a Guarantee , as that might be what kills it, but let's see what they say. Maybe a conservative £200 G'tee for an £11er, but no more. And if it beats that regularly, well then I can ask them to increase it.
Personally, if there were a £5 & a £10 PLO8 MTT every night, & maybe a £25 one on a Sunday, I'd deffo be a regular player in them.
Whether we could get the numbers is another matter. Taking £11 PLO8 DYM's as a guide, this week, in total, only 12 have run at £11, & not one ran yesterday (Saturday). At the £5.50 level, 54 have run this week (over 6 nights), so even they are a struggle to get going.
"online poker, its deffo tough and not getting easier. you have to remember that the sum of ROI at a SNG is -10%. so with you and eon always playing, couple of break even players, your winnings are the rake! personally my winnings are the lowest at the 3.30 games. I find that knowone ever folds, so the only way to win a hand is by the cards. If every hand is contested by 3 regs theres no winning mechanism. lower you have weaker players, and higher (11s) there is/was some element of scared money/survival...."
This is (to me) really interesting, & I could write several thousand words in reply. I'll keep it as brief as possible, but some cliffs.
Originally, going back 7 or 8 years, I had been playing, & winning., NLH DYM's here. Then the lads got my measure, guys like Nutter & JingleMa, & I knocked it in, started losing regularly, & I found myself losing a good few bob, with a nasty looking Sharky graph.
So, in September 2013, 2.5 years ago, I decided to revert to PLO & PLO8. I deposited £200, & since then, I have neither deposited or withdrawn a penny, & as of last night, my balance now stands at £2,743.42. So I disagree that they are a zero sum game, that shows we CAN make money at these, all we need is a win rate above 55% & we are in profit. And I've managed that for most of the 2.5 years. But not the last 3 months. (We'll come on to that later). I totally accept that taking 2.5 years to win that is pretty feeble in truth, as win rates go it's pretty terrible, and my "hourly" must be shocking. But I enjoy it, love it to bits, & I'd happily plod along doing that, I don't have any unrealistic expectations, just relax for a few hours each evening with my poker mates & not lose money is fine.
I should add that of that £2,500 in profit, around 25% - call it £700 - is from Rewards Payments & sundry bonuses.
Looking back over those 2.5 years, the same pattern repeats itself. A sustained uptick, over several months, followed by a downswing. Same play, different results. But on balance, the upticks are bigger than the downswings.
We have to be VERY careful here though, not to confuse adverse variance with sub-optimal play. Everyone blames variance when they are losing, & good play when they are winning. It's not always true though, is it? It's just so easy to take the lazy route & blame variance.
So, my current balance is just £40 above where it was on January 1st. Why is that?
It's a bit like our golf swing. We tinker with it endlessly. Change our grip, our stance, our mental approach, our ball, all sorts. But when we change one thing it impacts another thing, THIS gets better but THAT gets worse. They are usually connected, of course. Soon, we are in a right mess, & are shooting terrible scores & our swing is all over the place.
And its EXACTLY the same with poker.
When I'm getting bad results (less than a 57% win rate) I do tinker with my technique, alter my calling & betting ranges & so on. Soon, 5 or 6 changes have been made, the results are still sub 57%, & we don't know where we are, so we go back to basics again.
I was trying something new last week, &, you know, sometimes these things go wrong, & we feel daft. We don't need reminding we've made booboo, do we? But one of my "friends" promptly told me "that was a daft play tikay". Thanks for that chum.
So we tinker with this, tinker with that, revert to basics, change something else. Soon we don't know our ar*e from our elbow.
I actually love the mental challenge all this gives me, but if you asked my why I've not done too good since Jan 1st, in truth, I don't really know. I'm certainly NOT blaming run bad, but some if it might be. Certainly not the majority of it though.
The standard of play has changed, yes, I'll give you that. A Level 1 three way all in this week was won by Mr Optimistic with K-8-8-5. One regular on the Tables - decent chap - simply HATES having his Blinds attacked, so will play back with ANY FOUR. All day mate, yes please, because my Range is ALWAYS ahead of his. But yeah, they hit now & then. Good luck to them, I NEED these guys to do these things, they are my profit.
There's also a new breed here who think any A-2-x-x is an auto all in. There are times - 4 handed, big blinds when we can certainly shove with any A-2 or decent ace, but 6 handed, at 15-30? No ta.
(A 4 handed jam with any A-2 is mathematically fine, as we force folds 75% of the time, so on balance it's ok).
There's one more component of the equation though, & this is the one I look at more than any other......
Comments
Yikes, groan at the incoming bad beat stories. I get told them whilst I'm walking, eating, talking a leak, all sorts.
A chap ought to be able to eat or evacuate without being told them, but some folks can't help themselves. They mean no harm, that's the thing.
It's not the worst thing in the world, just a minor irritation, which, like a pair of tight shoes, or a dodgy mother-in-law, worsens over time. Little doses are fine.
A clear fold for me. I think, as you note at the foot of your post, it's results orientated thinking. MOST of the time the fold is correct, imo.
What a great game that was, though, some terrific play, & it was swinging & swonging in every direction, 4 handed there were 4 different chip leaders inside 2 orbits.
If I had lost that, I think I'd have been as disappointed as you were, it's perfectly natural.
When we are 4 handed, with blinds 400-800, so average stack 3.75 Bigs, it's largely a matter of being dealt the right hands & doing the right thing, & I think all 4 of us did that. The rest is down to luck.
^^^
I'd say you did exactly right. There were no "free spots", we know Chippie was raising with airballs (so you were likely to be ahead - & you were, good read), & Eon & I are never gonna attack the Chippie, we are going to attack YOU. Played it perfect, got unlucky, next case.
I feel a bit of a fraud, dispensing advice like some wise old sage who knows the game - my results at the moment are nothing like good enough.
I'm really concentrating, & thinking about my game, but results wise, I'm just treading water. My account at present is almost identical to the figure it was on January 1st. So I've played probably 1,000 games since Jan 1 & not made a penny. Pretty terrible, really.
Enjoying it more than ever though. Can't wait to start my session every day, full of hope & enthusiasm, but I just can't seem to string a run of good results together.
The magical mysteries of poker are so wonderfully perplexing.
Lordy, don't remind me.
I remember my hand flopped good, & him needing runner-runner perfect perfect.......
I got turned over in Level One of an £11er too, when I got it all-in Pre v Mr Optimistic & he got the jolly lot. Just my luck to run my A-A-2-3 DS into K-8-8-5.
I'm still wading through treacle, barely £40 up in 2016 (& I've received more than that in Rewards Payments), so I'm tinkering with my game, & the more I tinker.......
All good.
Right, tidy up a few things & get today's started, full of hope & optimism as ever.
See you there.
you have to remember that the sum of ROI at a SNG is -10%. so with you and eon always playing, couple of break even players, your winnings are the rake! personally my winnings are the lowest at the 3.30 games. I find that knowone ever folds, so the only way to win a hand is by the cards. If every hand is contested by 3 regs theres no winning mechanism. lower you have weaker players, and higher (11s) there is/was some element of scared money/survival.
You should join the thurs eve PL08 games. apart from drawing extra players with your presence, those games are good fun (and profitable), there alots of different styles to keep you on your toes etc.
I'm very impressed with how uber generous sky is with these tournaments, and the nice thing is with a favourable run of cards, almost everyone can occasionally score.
we still need/want a bigger (11?) PL08 T once a month though, there are PL08 players around who do make the effort to come to sky when the timings right.
Thanks Mr Suzy,
I'll reply to that in 3 parts, as one of the replies might be a bit lengthy.
"......You should join the thurs eve PL08 games. apart from drawing extra players with your presence, those games are good fun (and profitable), there alots of different styles to keep you on your toes etc.
I'm very impressed with how uber generous sky is with these tournaments, and the nice thing is with a favourable run of cards, almost everyone can occasionally score......"
Being as you seem to be the biggest winner in these by far, I guess added value is god for you.
More seriously, though.....
I don't seem able to play DYM's & MTT's (effectively) at the same time, so I'll need to take a night off DYM's when I do. It wont be this week though, as I'll be Offline on Thursday night, (& most of Easter) as I have company for Easter.
I do very much enjoy PLO & PLO8 MTT's, but when we play, say, a £1 MTT, many players seem to play it like a Freeroll, so it's quite a challenge to (attempt) to play these things properly. You seem to manage OK though, & in your case, good MTT technique is why you do so well.
There's an interesting thing I often see in the DYM's, where players with solid MTT results don't adjust when they play DYM's, it's a very peculiar thing to see. They have the mindset that they have to WIN a DYM (finish 1st) which of course is a big mistake. We get paid the same for 3rd as 1st, so banging heads with another big stack 4 handed is pretty dumb, or so it seems to me.
I also like to stretch myself for the Rewards Payments each week, which is difficult with mainly £3 & £5 DYM's, & very few £11ers. It adds up to significant income over the long term. I can accumulate, on average, 130 points per session playing PLO8 DYM's, & generally manage to reach 1,000 points (£12.50) most weeks, but if I drop them & play the PLO8 League, I'd struggle to make many points at all on a Thursday.
Sky are uber-generous with the Prizes for that Thursday PLO8 League? Most definitely, but probably best to say little, in case they realise. That's one of the problems The Business has, they don't tend to review these things regularly due to lack of resource, so as long as nobody complains, things tend to get left as they are. Say no more.....
Personally, if there were a £5 & a £10 PLO8 MTT every night, & maybe a £25 one on a Sunday, I'd deffo be a regular player in them.
Whether we could get the numbers is another matter. Taking £11 PLO8 DYM's as a guide, this week, in total, only 12 have run at £11, & not one ran yesterday (Saturday). At the £5.50 level, 54 have run this week (over 6 nights), so even they are a struggle to get going.
"online poker, its deffo tough and not getting easier.
you have to remember that the sum of ROI at a SNG is -10%. so with you and eon always playing, couple of break even players, your winnings are the rake! personally my winnings are the lowest at the 3.30 games. I find that knowone ever folds, so the only way to win a hand is by the cards. If every hand is contested by 3 regs theres no winning mechanism. lower you have weaker players, and higher (11s) there is/was some element of scared money/survival...."
This is (to me) really interesting, & I could write several thousand words in reply. I'll keep it as brief as possible, but some cliffs.
Originally, going back 7 or 8 years, I had been playing, & winning., NLH DYM's here. Then the lads got my measure, guys like Nutter & JingleMa, & I knocked it in, started losing regularly, & I found myself losing a good few bob, with a nasty looking Sharky graph.
So, in September 2013, 2.5 years ago, I decided to revert to PLO & PLO8. I deposited £200, & since then, I have neither deposited or withdrawn a penny, & as of last night, my balance now stands at £2,743.42. So I disagree that they are a zero sum game, that shows we CAN make money at these, all we need is a win rate above 55% & we are in profit. And I've managed that for most of the 2.5 years. But not the last 3 months. (We'll come on to that later). I totally accept that taking 2.5 years to win that is pretty feeble in truth, as win rates go it's pretty terrible, and my "hourly" must be shocking. But I enjoy it, love it to bits, & I'd happily plod along doing that, I don't have any unrealistic expectations, just relax for a few hours each evening with my poker mates & not lose money is fine.
I should add that of that £2,500 in profit, around 25% - call it £700 - is from Rewards Payments & sundry bonuses.
Looking back over those 2.5 years, the same pattern repeats itself. A sustained uptick, over several months, followed by a downswing. Same play, different results. But on balance, the upticks are bigger than the downswings.
We have to be VERY careful here though, not to confuse adverse variance with sub-optimal play. Everyone blames variance when they are losing, & good play when they are winning. It's not always true though, is it? It's just so easy to take the lazy route & blame variance.
So, my current balance is just £40 above where it was on January 1st. Why is that?
More follows.......
The short answer is "I don't really know".
It's a bit like our golf swing. We tinker with it endlessly. Change our grip, our stance, our mental approach, our ball, all sorts. But when we change one thing it impacts another thing, THIS gets better but THAT gets worse. They are usually connected, of course. Soon, we are in a right mess, & are shooting terrible scores & our swing is all over the place.
And its EXACTLY the same with poker.
When I'm getting bad results (less than a 57% win rate) I do tinker with my technique, alter my calling & betting ranges & so on. Soon, 5 or 6 changes have been made, the results are still sub 57%, & we don't know where we are, so we go back to basics again.
I was trying something new last week, &, you know, sometimes these things go wrong, & we feel daft. We don't need reminding we've made booboo, do we? But one of my "friends" promptly told me "that was a daft play tikay". Thanks for that chum.
So we tinker with this, tinker with that, revert to basics, change something else. Soon we don't know our ar*e from our elbow.
I actually love the mental challenge all this gives me, but if you asked my why I've not done too good since Jan 1st, in truth, I don't really know. I'm certainly NOT blaming run bad, but some if it might be. Certainly not the majority of it though.
The standard of play has changed, yes, I'll give you that. A Level 1 three way all in this week was won by Mr Optimistic with K-8-8-5. One regular on the Tables - decent chap - simply HATES having his Blinds attacked, so will play back with ANY FOUR. All day mate, yes please, because my Range is ALWAYS ahead of his. But yeah, they hit now & then. Good luck to them, I NEED these guys to do these things, they are my profit.
There's also a new breed here who think any A-2-x-x is an auto all in. There are times - 4 handed, big blinds when we can certainly shove with any A-2 or decent ace, but 6 handed, at 15-30? No ta.
(A 4 handed jam with any A-2 is mathematically fine, as we force folds 75% of the time, so on balance it's ok).
There's one more component of the equation though, & this is the one I look at more than any other......