Just one of those things eh? One day you can run golden, the next youre practically setting fire to money. Its the beauty of poker.
Either way, best not show this post to Orford. He might start to feel slightly better about himself and convince his bad start on his diary is due to 'variance'.
Getting over £1,000 was a tremendous achievement Tikay, but so is being over £900.
You will recover I am sure. Do you think you changed your style a little, I know I have before when I reached a certain milestone or had a good win, I then had to make a conscious effort to get back to grinding rather than playing too many pots because I suddenly thought I was better than I am! Just a thought, I am sure you're far too disciplined for that sort of rookie error.
On a lighter note did you read the story yesterday about part of the tube being closed due to concrete? Apparently some contractors were pouring concrete and forgot to close the door to the local switch room! Amateurs huh ! Posted by VespaPX
Ah and there we have the reason for the downturn. How could Tikay be expected to concentrate with the thought of wet concrete oozing all over public transport. I'm suprised he played at all, one would have thought he would have just locked himself away with the TV news playing on a loop!
On a lighter note did you read the story yesterday about part of the tube being closed due to concrete? Apparently some contractors were pouring concrete and forgot to close the door to the local switch room! Amateurs huh ! Posted by VespaPX
Getting over £1,000 was a tremendous achievement Tikay, but so is being over £900. You will recover I am sure. Do you think you changed your style a little, I know I have before when I reached a certain milestone or had a good win, I then had to make a conscious effort to get back to grinding rather than playing too many pots because I suddenly thought I was better than I am! Just a thought, I am sure you're far too disciplined for that sort of rookie error. Posted by Enut
That's a perfectly plausible explanation.
The fact I lost so many last night suggests that a "tweak" to my game, intentional or otherwise, could not have such a drastic effect.
My gut reaction was that it was just (long-overdue) adverse variance, & it'll self-correct, but I will be looking at my game closely. I remained very-disciplined last night, too.
I did notice that the games last night were very limpy-stationy, more so than usual. 5 Limpers, I pot it, 5 callers, that sort of thing. Bizarre, really, if you can call 5X, why limp in the first place? But they all did, every time. Not an excuse, by the way, we need to find ways to combat that sort of thing. It does make you think though.
I lost the lot with good Aces, all-in pre, against.....J-9-8-3. The guy said "I knew you had Aces mate, because you potted it, you always do, thats why I called". I was not sure how best to respond to him.......
Another chap limped, I had A-K-2-3 Double Suited, so I potted it. He then......RE-POTTED!
Whoops. He must have the Aces, but I was pot stuck, & had a great 2 way hand, in we go. He had A-J-9-6. Explain that one! What can A-J-9-6 EVER be beating, as played?
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That's a perfectly plausible explanation. The fact I lost so many last night suggests that a "tweak" to my game, intentional or otherwise, could not have such a drastic effect. My gut reaction was that it was just (long-overdue) adverse variance, & it'll self-correct, but I will be looking at my game closely. I remained very-disciplined last night, too. I did notice that the games last night were very limpy-stationy, more so than usual. 5 Limpers, I pot it, 5 callers, that sort of thing. Bizarre, really, if you can call 5X, why limp in the first place? But they all did, every time. Not an excuse, by the way, we need to find ways to combat that sort of thing. It does make you think though. I lost the lot with good Aces, all-in pre, against.....J-9-8-3. The guy said " I knew you had Aces mate, because you potted it, you always do, thats why I called ". I was not sure how best to respond to him....... Another chap limped, I had A-K-2-3 Double Suited, so I potted it. He then......RE-POTTED! Whoops. He must have the Aces, but I was pot stuck, & had a great 2 way hand, in we go. He had A-J-9-6. Explain that one! What can A-J-9-6 EVER be beating, as played? What a great game, eh? Posted by Tikay10
I've seen this a lot recently and i'm scratching my head as how to combat it too.
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : Thinking of Porridge.... One older, wiser, street-wise gentleman with a younger, better looking but gullible lad... Remind you of any other couple?..... Posted by Sky_Poker
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That's a perfectly plausible explanation. The fact I lost so many last night suggests that a "tweak" to my game, intentional or otherwise, could not have such a drastic effect. My gut reaction was that it was just (long-overdue) adverse variance, & it'll self-correct, but I will be looking at my game closely. I remained very-disciplined last night, too. I did notice that the games last night were very limpy-stationy, more so than usual. 5 Limpers, I pot it, 5 callers, that sort of thing. Bizarre, really, if you can call 5X, why limp in the first place? But they all did, every time. Not an excuse, by the way, we need to find ways to combat that sort of thing. It does make you think though. I lost the lot with good Aces, all-in pre, against.....J-9-8-3. The guy said " I knew you had Aces mate, because you potted it, you always do, thats why I called ". I was not sure how best to respond to him....... Another chap limped, I had A-K-2-3 Double Suited, so I potted it. He then......RE-POTTED! Whoops. He must have the Aces, but I was pot stuck, & had a great 2 way hand, in we go. He had A-J-9-6. Explain that one! What can A-J-9-6 EVER be beating, as played? What a great game, eh? Posted by Tikay10
Hi TK,
Been pondering about something you touch on in your post recently...
In PLO8, how good a hand do you need to have when you KNOW your opponent is going to call preflop regardless. for arguments sake, lets say you have 2k chips with 2 others on the same amount and a big stack. Blinds are 100-200. The big stack limps - and judging by his play previously will call any bet you make preflop. you are on the big blind.
In holdem we know we can get our opponent to call with only 20-30% equity in alot of situations, but its a different ball game with PLO8... i guess their equity would be alot higher than that in almost all cases + its harder to bluff post flop.
so I guess my question is, vs opponents like this, and when relatively short, do you think a viable tactic is to check your option even with very strong hands. The intention is to give yourself more options postflop against an opponent who is more likely to make mistakes than you, and reduce varience while on the bubble.
I went out of one of the DYMs i played last night in a very similar spot to this. big stack limper who limped every hand, i potted from the BB with AK45 and they called. On the flop I was first to act and had a resonable shot at both pots so shoved for about 2/3 pot. villain calls with 234J or something and scooped to knock me out...
If I had checked my option preflop, I'd have more fold equity, and way more options post flop. Its not like I need to double up either, a small pot would also put me in a good position to cash.
I can't find a way to like flatting if I think I have the best hand, I just can't. This is PLO8, not NLH.
If I DON'T think I have the best hand, I won't enter the pot anyway.
If my man LIMPS, I'm SURE my hand is better. Why would he limp with a better hand than mine? I ONLY play quality starting hands, assuming I have a playable stack.
So......
I know he'll suckout a few times, yes, but I want to play this hand 10,000 times. I'll win it, what, 6,000 times? That'll do me fine.
Every decision I make is based on that logic. If we do this 10,000 times, how often will I win?
I'll get a black eye a good few times, but if my man keeps getting it in bad, he HAS to lose over time.
A man got a little upset with me last night, as I ONLY raised or folded. To me, I can't think outside of that box when we are playing so shalllow, as we are in these. In a deep-stacked Tourney, that's different, but in these, if I have the best hand, I'll take my chances.
Great question, I'll muse on it further over the weekend, thank you.
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : Hi TK, Been pondering about something you touch on in your post recently... In PLO8, how good a hand do you need to have when you KNOW your opponent is going to call preflop regardless. for arguments sake, lets say you have 2k chips with 2 others on the same amount and a big stack. Blinds are 100-200. The big stack limps - and judging by his play previously will call any bet you make preflop. you are on the big blind. In holdem we know we can get our opponent to call with only 20-30% equity in alot of situations, but its a different ball game with PLO8... i guess their equity would be alot higher than that in almost all cases + its harder to bluff post flop. so I guess my question is, vs opponents like this, and when relatively short, do you think a viable tactic is to check your option even with very strong hands. The intention is to give yourself more options postflop against an opponent who is more likely to make mistakes than you, and reduce varience while on the bubble. I went out of one of the DYMs i played last night in a very similar spot to this. big stack limper who limped every hand, i potted from the BB with AK45 and they called. On the flop I was first to act and had a resonable shot at both pots so shoved for about 2/3 pot. villain calls with 234J or something and scooped to knock me out... If I had checked my option preflop, I'd have more fold equity, and way more options post flop. Its not like I need to double up either, a small pot would also put me in a good position to cash. would be interested to know your thoughts. Posted by chicknMelt
personally, I think where you say " they called" is the key-- surely it's a waste of time pot betting here when you know he'll call----- if you have to shove every flop--- shove pre innit?-- two chances?-----
Great question, Melty. I can't find a way to like flatting if I think I have the best hand, I just can't. This is PLO8, not NLH. If I DON'T think I have the best hand, I won't enter the pot anyway. If my man LIMPS, I'm SURE my hand is better. Why would he limp with a better hand than mine? I ONLY play quality starting hands, assuming I have a playable stack. So...... I know he'll suckout a few times, yes, but I want to play this hand 10,000 times. I'll win it, what, 6,000 times? That'll do me fine. Every decision I make is based on that logic. If we do this 10,000 times, how often will I win? I'll get a black eye a good few times, but if my man keeps getting it in bad, he HAS to lose over time. A man got a little upset with me last night, as I ONLY raised or folded. To me, I can't think outside of that box when we are playing so shalllow, as we are in these. In a deep-stacked Tourney, that's different, but in these, if I have the best hand, I'll take my chances. Great question, I'll muse on it further over the weekend, thank you. Posted by Tikay10
I do agree with you that in general we should be trying to get the money in with better hands...buuut, that doesnt take into account ICM.
If we know we are 60% fav in a hand, then should we go all in with 4 left in a DYM, when folding would also leave us a resonable chance of cashing? I dont think the answer is yes in every scenario.
In my example above, we have 58.5% equity vs the villains hand
so by potting it pre, we are basically committing ourself to the pot, and therefor give ourselves a 41.5% chance of not cashing.
I guess we just have to figure out is checking our option increases or decreases the chance of not cashing... If we deem our opponent to be weak post flop, I think it may actually increase our chance of cashing??
EDIT - Im definately not saying this should always be how you play it... but I never even considered it as an option until now...
Comments
Only a temporary blip i'm sure.
Apparently some contractors were pouring concrete and forgot to close the door to the local switch room!
Amateurs huh !
You will recover I am sure. Do you think you changed your style a little, I know I have before when I reached a certain milestone or had a good win, I then had to make a conscious effort to get back to grinding rather than playing too many pots because I suddenly thought I was better than I am! Just a thought, I am sure you're far too disciplined for that sort of rookie error.
The fact I lost so many last night suggests that a "tweak" to my game, intentional or otherwise, could not have such a drastic effect.
My gut reaction was that it was just (long-overdue) adverse variance, & it'll self-correct, but I will be looking at my game closely. I remained very-disciplined last night, too.
I did notice that the games last night were very limpy-stationy, more so than usual. 5 Limpers, I pot it, 5 callers, that sort of thing. Bizarre, really, if you can call 5X, why limp in the first place? But they all did, every time. Not an excuse, by the way, we need to find ways to combat that sort of thing. It does make you think though.
I lost the lot with good Aces, all-in pre, against.....J-9-8-3. The guy said "I knew you had Aces mate, because you potted it, you always do, thats why I called". I was not sure how best to respond to him.......
Another chap limped, I had A-K-2-3 Double Suited, so I potted it. He then......RE-POTTED!
Whoops. He must have the Aces, but I was pot stuck, & had a great 2 way hand, in we go. He had A-J-9-6. Explain that one! What can A-J-9-6 EVER be beating, as played?
What a great game, eh?
One older, wiser, street-wise gentleman with a younger, better looking but gullible lad...
Remind you of any other couple?.....
Cough...
Headline says concrete.
Caption below picture states cement!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25873252
Sort it out TK !!
Better-looking
Orford? Better looking? Are you serious?
Great question, Melty.
I can't find a way to like flatting if I think I have the best hand, I just can't. This is PLO8, not NLH.
If I DON'T think I have the best hand, I won't enter the pot anyway.
If my man LIMPS, I'm SURE my hand is better. Why would he limp with a better hand than mine? I ONLY play quality starting hands, assuming I have a playable stack.
So......
I know he'll suckout a few times, yes, but I want to play this hand 10,000 times. I'll win it, what, 6,000 times? That'll do me fine.
Every decision I make is based on that logic. If we do this 10,000 times, how often will I win?
I'll get a black eye a good few times, but if my man keeps getting it in bad, he HAS to lose over time.
A man got a little upset with me last night, as I ONLY raised or folded. To me, I can't think outside of that box when we are playing so shalllow, as we are in these. In a deep-stacked Tourney, that's different, but in these, if I have the best hand, I'll take my chances.
Great question, I'll muse on it further over the weekend, thank you.
personally, I think where you say " they called" is the key-- surely it's a waste of time pot betting here when you know he'll call----- if you have to shove every flop--- shove pre innit?-- two chances?-----