Monday I had to unexpectedly go out for the evening, Show on Tuesday, Wednesday I was unwell, did the Show again Thursday, but Plan B was soon in place, have a monster weekend, Friday to Sunday, & try to get 600 Reward Points & get back on target.
Was rattling along nicely last night at about 9pm, profit asured, & the Sunday session still to come, BOOM, soon be back on target.
And then......I got a text. Stu Rutter is unwell, would I do the Show tonight?
Well my policy is NEVER to say no when the Bosses ask me to do something, so the answer was "yes, of course, thank you". In truth, I'm a little tired & jaded, what with UKPC, flu, & this week has been really heavy, with 2 Shows done already.
So, no poker tonight, boo!
Anyway, I'll get some kip this afternoon, & try & be fresh, bouncy & zingy tonight. Don't even know who the Presenter is. Dear Lord, please don't let it be Orford.
Oh Tikay We all have our crosses to bear and yours i'm afraid is Mr Orford......... anyway only played a few last night as I have had a horrible week and a bit on the dym tables. After having some success at 5.50 and 11.00 nlh suddenly just unable to win a game coupled with paying way to much to get into the 30k game sunday and throwing it away early (just being an idiot and I was to blame no one else) I felt that playing some plo8, which I enjoy but am still struggling with was the way to go. my Problem seems to be not knowing what hands to play with when the blinds go up and my stack is being withered by blinds. In one game I was lucky got on top kept getting obvious starting hands and got a large stack only to see it all go and in the end I only just finished in the top three. I appreciated your answer in the chat box last night when I asked about calling a small amount even with nothing trying to bust the small stack so do you have any advice on starting hands later on?
Oh Tikay We all have our crosses to bear and yours i'm afraid is Mr Orford......... anyway only played a few last night as I have had a horrible week and a bit on the dym tables. After having some success at 5.50 and 11.00 nlh suddenly just unable to win a game coupled with paying way to much to get into the 30k game sunday and throwing it away early (just being an idiot and I was to blame no one else) I felt that playing some plo8, which I enjoy but am still struggling with was the way to go. my Problem seems to be not knowing what hands to play with when the blinds go up and my stack is being withered by blinds. In one game I was lucky got on top kept getting obvious starting hands and got a large stack only to see it all go and in the end I only just finished in the top three. I appreciated your answer in the chat box last night when I asked about calling a small amount even with nothing trying to bust the small stack so do you have any advice on starting hands later on? Posted by pompeynic
Morning Nick.
I watched you with interest in that game - you had over 4,500 chips, over 5,000 even, very early. I know how badly you wanted to win it, & I watched, almost in horror, as your stack just got smaller & smaller, & eventually you were Billy Low Stack I think. Fortunately, you held your nerve, hung in, & got the win. BOOM!
Starting hands later on, when the Blinds are big?
Well personally, I think it's a combo of starting hands, "situational awareness", & making a rule to try to be FIRST to act whenever possible.
Starting Hands.
We want 2 way hands, just in case. If we have something like A-K-2-4 we are rarely in terrible shape, even if we bump into Aces, we still have a shot.
Very rarely (only if I am very short) will I play a Low Only hand. It is a very bad thing to commit our DYM to a Low Only hand, we can be in so much trouble if it comes all high.
High Only hand? A-K-K-J, that sort of thing? Well better than a Low Only hand, for sure.
But ideally, a two way hand.
So, in order of preference.
Two way hand
High only hand
Low only hand. (Only if really desperate).
Situational Awareness
Look around the table ALL the time.
Are there shorties who may be getting desperate?
Is someone limping in out of a 5 BB stack? (Likely to go Busto).
Do we HAVE to play this hand?
Just try to avoid risk, really, let the others fight it out if our stack permits.
NEVER limp or call at this stage. Raise or fold, ideally being first to act.
By being the Raiser not the caller we give ourselves TWO ways to win the hand, as most of the time the others will pass when we bet.
I would jam with, say, A-J-5-2 if nobody opened in front of me. But if someone Bets first, or even just limps in, I'm now throwing my hand away. It's a very odd thing that from a short stack, some players will limp, then call a shove, they are playing their hands backwards, only giving themselves one way to win the hand. Two ways beats one way, all day & night......
My ideal spot, the DYM "sweet spot", is with blinds at 150-300. A pot sized bet is now 1,050, & nobody (in their right mind) calls a bet of that size. If they re-raise, so be it, we have to call.
150-300 is "move time", & in fact, I often don't play a SINGLE hand until Blinds are 150-300. This is the crucial Level, that seperates winners from losers. Forget 25-50, we ain't interested in winning pots at that stage. 150-300 is where we start to play.
It is MUCH harder at 100-200, as we can only bet 700. That might get called. We don't want a call really, if we don't see a flop, we can't lose.
At 200-400, now we must widen our range a lot.
At 300-600, we now have little choice, any half decent hand - ideally ANY 2 way hand - & we must pot it. We rarely get called, anyway.
Bet, don't call.
I played 35 games last night, & 43 on Wednesday. I never limped in ONCE.*
*Except for, maybe 4 times in total, over those 78 games when I was in the SB & had a good hand at medium blinds & so I "made up". I would not do this after the 100-200 Level though. Just let the BB have your SB, we don't need to fight him out of position. People "making up" the SB at 100-200 upwards is the daftest thing ever.
Actually, I DID limp in once, I had 8 Tables going, & must have misclicked. The whole chat box came alive - "TIKAY LIMPED", lol.
We can peel a few hands (in position) though. Not many, mind, but a few.
Hope some of that helps, & let me know how you get on, please.
Tikay you talk about a "low only" hand like it can't win the high, but a low only hand can still win the high whereas the same can't be said for vice versa.
3456 for example has 53% equity over a high only hand like AKKJ. So surely that's a better hand to go in with? And against A2KQ (a potential high/low hand) our 3456ds this time has 50% equity.
Tikay you talk about a "low only" hand like it can't win the high, but a low only hand can still win the high whereas the same can't be said for vice versa. 3456 for example has 53% equity over a high only hand like AKKJ. So surely that's a better hand to go in with? And against A2KQ (a potential high/low hand) our 3456ds this time has 50% equity. Posted by F_Ivanovic
3-4-5-6 IS a "High" hand.
Put it another way, it's deffo not the sort of Low hand I'd ever play!
I guess Ivan is saying 'a Low only hand can win the Hi AND Lo part of the pot, where a Hi only hand physically cannot win the Low part of any pot'.
But then lots of pots won't even have a Low half to the pot, so you want a higher chance of winning the part of the pot that will 100% be there, and I'd imagine in the late stages of a DYM even a chop is a very welcome outcome
Interested in the game and would of course only be able to play it for fun atm as oppose to actually expecting to win money but all your advice on this thread has been really great. Obviously a lot of the advice is DYM specific things about survival etc. This is probably a really newbie question but how do you find PLO8 cash, is it a game that ever really gets played? Does the rake in PLO8/the number of chopped pots not make it really hard to beat?
I guess Ivan is saying 'a Low only hand can win the Hi AND Lo part of the pot, where a Hi only hand physically cannot win the Low part of any pot'. But then lots of pots won't even have a Low half to the pot, so you want a higher chance of winning the part of the pot that will 100% be there, and I'd imagine in the late stages of a DYM even a chop is a very welcome outcome Interested in the game and would of course only be able to play it for fun atm as oppose to actually expecting to win money but all your advice on this thread has been really great. Obviously a lot of the advice is DYM specific things about survival etc. This is probably a really newbie question but how do you find PLO8 cash, is it a game that ever really gets played? Does the rake in PLO8/the number of chopped pots not make it really hard to beat? Posted by Lambert180
Yes, I get his point, & it's great to thrash ideas & thoughts back & forth, especially if we want to improve.
Melty mentioned PLO8 & NL08 Cash a few days back & I've yet to reply.
I've been having a look at it, &, to my astonishment, I've noticed that over on 'Stars, NL08 (NO Limit, not Pot Limit) Hyper SNG's have seen an astronomical rise in traffic recently.
If Sky Poker introduced them, or have something similar already, in fact any form of NL08 DYM or SNG, I'll maybe give them a whirl soon.
Not so sure about NL08 Cash, or even PLO8 cash, I suck at Cash these days, though again, I suppose I ought to try.
The problem is I'm making a steady little profit, month after month, in these PL08 DYM's, & I'm content with that, in truth. £150 to £200 a month is like a little pension to me, I could, if I retired, (or get the tin tack) & was able to play more hours, maybe increase that to £300 to £400 per month, & that'd do me, job done.
I have no aspirations to win big money Online. What would be nice is to use my profit (if I still have it) to enter a couple of PLO8 WSOP Events this year. Now that would be epic!
Hey Tikay love to see the honesty in your posts about being called in tonight and not veen knowing who the presenter is haha priceless!!!
Hope your feeling well soon. You mentioned a while back a possible omaha incentive for this month which obviously hasnt happened. Do you know if anything is in the pipeline?
Looks like you could do with a motivationally boost!
and your dedication - 3 shows in a row - and to maintain the quality of the performance - vwp
do look up titanium dioxide coated concrete - if it could be made cost effective wouldn't that be great
just one little blemish on your scorecard imho
i thought your comments about (Sir) Clive's poker skill was unnecessary to the otherwise amusing anecdote.
although some of his play may be unconventional he is still a very difficult person to play against - he has knocked me out of more tournies that I have him (okay maybe that says more about me than him but meh) and just last week he took down a local tournament. there are other analysts that have a tendency to be forthright with their views, whereas always had you in the fair but a little more diplomatic camp, and that's the way i like it.
In Response to Re: Can an old dog learn new tricks? : That is a great point, Mick. Logically, trying to keep the win-rate north of 50% ought to be the only target, but I seem to be equally fixated by the Reward Points thing. The thing is, all things being equal, I can just about make 3,000 Reward Points on a regular month, & that is worth £45 to me. Based on the starting 'roll of £200, £45 is a lot of money. In truth, of course, it is only £15 extra really, compared to, say, 2,950 Reward Points. Bit silly really, but having targets really helps me. Carrot & donkey, I suppose. Posted by Tikay10
Hi Tikay Thanks for the advice, I have decided to leave mtt's and nlh alone for a while and play dym plo8 ( and plo if we can get more people to play them) I am trying to put it into my game. I will be playing 3.30 games only as I cannot lose too much if it all goes wrong. Played nine tonight won four lost five. losing concentration cost me a couple and I probably won one that I shouldn't have. I think I played better but losing more than we win is not good so will try again tomorrow. the main thing was that I had fun for three hours and at one stage was in tears of laughter at macacgirls' "twiglet" remark. that was fantastic as was the response by the rest of the table bar the one we all know. Any tips about the way I played , from you, or anyone else on the tables I played would be welcome although I understand if people want to "milk me " as much as they can. One point I wanted to ask was I tried not to play many hands in the early levels and even threw away AAK4 (A4suited.) Should I look to play the occasional hand or keep folding ? the only reason I ask is that I always seemed to be behind everyone else in chips and playing catch up when the blinds were getting bigger. Thanks Nick
Hi Nic I know I differ from Tikay in the view to playing hands early. I personally dont think its right to take one approach I think you adapt this approach to who is at the table and who is in the hand with you. There are times I will very much play hands early on and broaden my range of hands also. Yes the abc of dym will tell you play tight early and then aggressive late on but I dont entirely agree with that. If there chips to be won early I say go for it as it sets you in position late on instead of having to take risks late on. In general the abc approach is important but it is not the right approach in all cases imo.
Hi Tikay Thanks for the advice, I have decided to leave mtt's and nlh alone for a while and play dym plo8 ( and plo if we can get more people to play them) I am trying to put it into my game. I will be playing 3.30 games only as I cannot lose too much if it all goes wrong. Played nine tonight won four lost five. losing concentration cost me a couple and I probably won one that I shouldn't have. I think I played better but losing more than we win is not good so will try again tomorrow. the main thing was that I had fun for three hours and at one stage was in tears of laughter at macacgirls' "twiglet" remark. that was fantastic as was the response by the rest of the table bar the one we all know. Any tips about the way I played , from you, or anyone else on the tables I played would be welcome although I understand if people want to "milk me " as much as they can. One point I wanted to ask was I tried not to play many hands in the early levels and even threw away AAK4 (A4suited.) Should I look to play the occasional hand or keep folding ? the only reason I ask is that I always seemed to be behind everyone else in chips and playing catch up when the blinds were getting bigger. Thanks Nick Posted by pompeynic
hi nic i agree with ger here the way i look at it early is u can lose 200-700 chips knowuing there is plenty of time too win them back and if you build a stack early your more set for the later levels.
the way these games play early on u have people going all in with any 4 cards so why not limp in and have a look at a few flops early on. just be careful what you play always have a 2 way hand you wont go far wrong. just dont go crazy.
you will soon start learning the way people play and the hands they play and how they play after a few games against them.
thats the only thing on here it is pretty much always the same player pool so quite easy too build up a bit of knowledge on your opponents then its just a case of using it too your advantage or trying too anyway!
maybe see you on the tables tonight...good luck...Churchy
Hi Nick, pleasure sitting at tables last night with you. It's almost impossible to say if your AAK4 hand should have been folded or not. If anyone had acted before me and jumped into the pot, I am almost always folding. However, I'm auto folding, without a seconds thought, if it's one of the 'Limp every hand, call every pot raise' Brigade, who had acted. Likewise, if you pot a hand like that with one or two of the Brigade to act after you, then you will get one or two callers. They will call with any4.com, so, unless you hit the flop big time, against two of the Brigade, it's almost impossible to know where you stand. Knowing the regulars helps, that just takes time. That's just my opinion of course, I honestly don't know if that's how most would play the hand early doors. I do however agree with both Ger and Churchy, mixing it up and not being predictable means an awful lot. Especially in the later levels. Hopefully, others have player notes on me ranging from complete nutter, through to tighter than a clams bum. Good luck and stick at it please, it's an incredible game.
Edited to add--- Currently playing a £3 DYM. Level 5, one limper, I'm holding AAK2 so pot raise it. Everyone called. Five way pot. One quick glance at flop. I haven't hit anything massive. Check it. All remaining players get involved, I fold. Player who scooped the lot had called with pre with 5899.
Hi Nick, pleasure sitting at tables last night with you. It's almost impossible to say if your AAK4 hand should have been folded or not. If anyone had acted before me and jumped into the pot, I am almost always folding. However, I'm auto folding, without a seconds thought, if it's one of the 'Limp every hand, call every pot raise' Brigade, who had acted. Likewise, if you pot a hand like that with one or two of the Brigade to act after you, then you will get one or two callers. They will call with any4.com, so, unless you hit the flop big time, against two of the Brigade, it's almost impossible to know where you stand. Knowing the regulars helps, that just takes time. That's just my opinion of course, I honestly don't know if that's how most would play the hand early doors. I do however agree with both Ger and Churchy, mixing it up and not being predictable means an awful lot. Especially in the later levels. Hopefully, others have player notes on me ranging from complete nutter, through to tighter than a clams bum. Good luck and stick at it please, it's an incredible game. Edited to add--- Currently playing a £3 DYM. Level 5, one limper, I'm holding AAK2 so pot raise it. Everyone called. Five way pot. One quick glance at flop. I haven't hit anything massive. Check it. All remaining players get involved, I fold. Player who scooped the lot had called with pre with 5899. Posted by Macacgirl1
Hi guys Thanks for all the advice I will take on board and perhaps be a little more adventurous. I will be on the 3.30 tables again tonight hoping to have a winning evening and also a fun evening PLO/PlO8 are by far the friendliest tables add in the odd nutter and it becomes great fun as well!!!! Nick
Hi guys Thanks for all the advice I will take on board and perhaps be a little more adventurous. I will be on the 3.30 tables again tonight hoping to have a winning evening and also a fun evening PLO/PlO8 are by far the friendliest tables add in the odd nutter and it becomes great fun as well!!!! Nick Posted by pompeynic
Well I played eleven 3.30 games tonight won six lost five, not great but good fun again. won a game which was pure luck lost one due to having poker blinkers on. for some reason only saw my hand and thought it was good, also lost one after not seeing tournie had started and then panic pushed. Bad errors I will need to cut out, anyway see everyone on the plo8 tables wednesday.
Comments
Been a really stop start week.
Monday I had to unexpectedly go out for the evening, Show on Tuesday, Wednesday I was unwell, did the Show again Thursday, but Plan B was soon in place, have a monster weekend, Friday to Sunday, & try to get 600 Reward Points & get back on target.
Was rattling along nicely last night at about 9pm, profit asured, & the Sunday session still to come, BOOM, soon be back on target.
And then......I got a text. Stu Rutter is unwell, would I do the Show tonight?
Well my policy is NEVER to say no when the Bosses ask me to do something, so the answer was "yes, of course, thank you". In truth, I'm a little tired & jaded, what with UKPC, flu, & this week has been really heavy, with 2 Shows done already.
So, no poker tonight, boo!
Anyway, I'll get some kip this afternoon, & try & be fresh, bouncy & zingy tonight. Don't even know who the Presenter is. Dear Lord, please don't let it be Orford.
We all have our crosses to bear and yours i'm afraid is Mr Orford......... anyway only played a few last night as I have had a horrible week and a bit on the dym tables. After having some success at 5.50 and 11.00 nlh suddenly just unable to win a game coupled with paying way to much to get into the 30k game sunday and throwing it away early (just being an idiot and I was to blame no one else) I felt that playing some plo8, which I enjoy but am still struggling with was the way to go. my Problem seems to be not knowing what hands to play with when the blinds go up and my stack is being withered by blinds.
In one game I was lucky got on top kept getting obvious starting hands and got a large stack only to see it all go and in the end I only just finished in the top three.
I appreciated your answer in the chat box last night when I asked about calling a small amount even with nothing trying to bust the small stack so do you have any advice on starting hands later on?
I watched you with interest in that game - you had over 4,500 chips, over 5,000 even, very early. I know how badly you wanted to win it, & I watched, almost in horror, as your stack just got smaller & smaller, & eventually you were Billy Low Stack I think. Fortunately, you held your nerve, hung in, & got the win. BOOM!
Starting hands later on, when the Blinds are big?
Well personally, I think it's a combo of starting hands, "situational awareness", & making a rule to try to be FIRST to act whenever possible.
Starting Hands.
We want 2 way hands, just in case. If we have something like A-K-2-4 we are rarely in terrible shape, even if we bump into Aces, we still have a shot.
Very rarely (only if I am very short) will I play a Low Only hand. It is a very bad thing to commit our DYM to a Low Only hand, we can be in so much trouble if it comes all high.
High Only hand? A-K-K-J, that sort of thing? Well better than a Low Only hand, for sure.
But ideally, a two way hand.
So, in order of preference.
Two way hand
High only hand
Low only hand. (Only if really desperate).
Situational Awareness
Look around the table ALL the time.
Are there shorties who may be getting desperate?
Is someone limping in out of a 5 BB stack? (Likely to go Busto).
Do we HAVE to play this hand?
Just try to avoid risk, really, let the others fight it out if our stack permits.
NEVER limp or call at this stage. Raise or fold, ideally being first to act.
By being the Raiser not the caller we give ourselves TWO ways to win the hand, as most of the time the others will pass when we bet.
I would jam with, say, A-J-5-2 if nobody opened in front of me. But if someone Bets first, or even just limps in, I'm now throwing my hand away. It's a very odd thing that from a short stack, some players will limp, then call a shove, they are playing their hands backwards, only giving themselves one way to win the hand. Two ways beats one way, all day & night......
My ideal spot, the DYM "sweet spot", is with blinds at 150-300. A pot sized bet is now 1,050, & nobody (in their right mind) calls a bet of that size. If they re-raise, so be it, we have to call.
150-300 is "move time", & in fact, I often don't play a SINGLE hand until Blinds are 150-300. This is the crucial Level, that seperates winners from losers. Forget 25-50, we ain't interested in winning pots at that stage. 150-300 is where we start to play.
It is MUCH harder at 100-200, as we can only bet 700. That might get called. We don't want a call really, if we don't see a flop, we can't lose.
At 200-400, now we must widen our range a lot.
At 300-600, we now have little choice, any half decent hand - ideally ANY 2 way hand - & we must pot it. We rarely get called, anyway.
Bet, don't call.
I played 35 games last night, & 43 on Wednesday. I never limped in ONCE.*
*Except for, maybe 4 times in total, over those 78 games when I was in the SB & had a good hand at medium blinds & so I "made up". I would not do this after the 100-200 Level though. Just let the BB have your SB, we don't need to fight him out of position. People "making up" the SB at 100-200 upwards is the daftest thing ever.
Actually, I DID limp in once, I had 8 Tables going, & must have misclicked. The whole chat box came alive - "TIKAY LIMPED", lol.
We can peel a few hands (in position) though. Not many, mind, but a few.
Hope some of that helps, & let me know how you get on, please.
Put it another way, it's deffo not the sort of Low hand I'd ever play!
But then lots of pots won't even have a Low half to the pot, so you want a higher chance of winning the part of the pot that will 100% be there, and I'd imagine in the late stages of a DYM even a chop is a very welcome outcome
Interested in the game and would of course only be able to play it for fun atm as oppose to actually expecting to win money but all your advice on this thread has been really great. Obviously a lot of the advice is DYM specific things about survival etc. This is probably a really newbie question but how do you find PLO8 cash, is it a game that ever really gets played? Does the rake in PLO8/the number of chopped pots not make it really hard to beat?
Melty mentioned PLO8 & NL08 Cash a few days back & I've yet to reply.
I've been having a look at it, &, to my astonishment, I've noticed that over on 'Stars, NL08 (NO Limit, not Pot Limit) Hyper SNG's have seen an astronomical rise in traffic recently.
If Sky Poker introduced them, or have something similar already, in fact any form of NL08 DYM or SNG, I'll maybe give them a whirl soon.
Not so sure about NL08 Cash, or even PLO8 cash, I suck at Cash these days, though again, I suppose I ought to try.
The problem is I'm making a steady little profit, month after month, in these PL08 DYM's, & I'm content with that, in truth. £150 to £200 a month is like a little pension to me, I could, if I retired, (or get the tin tack) & was able to play more hours, maybe increase that to £300 to £400 per month, & that'd do me, job done.
I have no aspirations to win big money Online. What would be nice is to use my profit (if I still have it) to enter a couple of PLO8 WSOP Events this year. Now that would be epic!
Thanks for the advice, I have decided to leave mtt's and nlh alone for a while and play dym plo8 ( and plo if we can get more people to play them) I am trying to put it into my game. I will be playing 3.30 games only as I cannot lose too much if it all goes wrong.
Played nine tonight won four lost five. losing concentration cost me a couple and I probably won one that I shouldn't have.
I think I played better but losing more than we win is not good so will try again tomorrow. the main thing was that I had fun for three hours and at one stage was in tears of laughter at macacgirls' "twiglet" remark. that was fantastic as was the response by the rest of the table bar the one we all know. Any tips about the way I played , from you, or anyone else on the tables I played would be welcome although I understand if people want to "milk me " as much as they can.
One point I wanted to ask was I tried not to play many hands in the early levels and even threw away AAK4 (A4suited.) Should I look to play the occasional hand or keep folding ? the only reason I ask is that I always seemed to be behind everyone else in chips and playing catch up when the blinds were getting bigger.
Thanks
Nick
the way these games play early on u have people going all in with any 4 cards so why not limp in and have a look at a few flops early on. just be careful what you play always have a 2 way hand you wont go far wrong. just dont go crazy.
you will soon start learning the way people play and the hands they play and how they play after a few games against them.
thats the only thing on here it is pretty much always the same player pool so quite easy too build up a bit of knowledge on your opponents then its just a case of using it too your advantage or trying too anyway!
maybe see you on the tables tonight...good luck...Churchy
It's almost impossible to say if your AAK4 hand should have been folded or not. If anyone had acted before me and jumped into the pot, I am almost always folding. However, I'm auto folding, without a seconds thought, if it's one of the 'Limp every hand, call every pot raise' Brigade, who had acted. Likewise, if you pot a hand like that with one or two of the Brigade to act after you, then you will get one or two callers. They will call with any4.com, so, unless you hit the flop big time, against two of the Brigade, it's almost impossible to know where you stand. Knowing the regulars helps, that just takes time.
That's just my opinion of course, I honestly don't know if that's how most would play the hand early doors.
I do however agree with both Ger and Churchy, mixing it up and not being predictable means an awful lot. Especially in the later levels. Hopefully, others have player notes on me ranging from complete nutter, through to tighter than a clams bum.
Good luck and stick at it please, it's an incredible game.
Edited to add---
Currently playing a £3 DYM.
Level 5, one limper, I'm holding AAK2 so pot raise it. Everyone called. Five way pot. One quick glance at flop. I haven't hit anything massive. Check it. All remaining players get involved, I fold. Player who scooped the lot had called with pre with 5899.
Thanks for all the advice I will take on board and perhaps be a little more adventurous. I will be on the 3.30 tables again tonight hoping to have a winning evening and also a fun evening PLO/PlO8 are by far the friendliest tables add in the odd nutter and it becomes great fun as well!!!!
Nick
PS dont mention Frey Bentos !