lol what range of hands do you give villian where you have 39% something like this 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T9o Posted by rancid
So he's shoving 40.3%. You don;t think he would also shove any of the other suited connectors such as 87s 76s 56s? If you add those 3 hands then I now have 40% equity.
Giving your shoving range I have 39.5% equity and I need to be good 39.9% (pot odds) of the time. Also, you have not factured in my image which is aggro on the table raising often.
Doesn't the fact that I had only played 1 hand meaning my table image must have been "tighter than a ducks a55hole" come into this at all?? Surely it must make you think there is a very good chance I'm a lot stronger than Q8??
That's why I couldn't understand why you said you 100% knew I would be shoving any 2.
If this was a standard mtt then given the stack sizes I can just about understand the play but in a satellite where a 10bb stack is ave stack and you don't need to go for the win, I think its a pretty easy fold.
I have said all I'm going to say anyway.....I'm gonna have to agree to disagree
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : So he's shoving 40.3%. You don;t think he would also shove any of the other suited connectors such as 87s 76s 56s? Giving your shoving range I have 39.5% equity and I need to be good 39.9% of the time. Also, you have not factured in my image which is aggro on the table raising often. Posted by DoubleAAA
ok well if you think villians is going to shove ATC then obviously call
I can't see your stack though, probably better to shove with Q8o
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : ok well if you think villians is going to shove ATC then obviously call I can't see your stack though, probably better to shove with Q8o Posted by rancid
Yes I should of open shoved. But once I had limped and he shoved it's a snap call because I know I have enough equity to make the call.
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Yes I should of open shoved. But once I had limped and he shoved it's a snap call because I know I have enough equity to make the call. Posted by DoubleAAA
You min raised btn v bb, think you need to think a little more pre emptive - ie. if you think vill will shove ATC then ok m/r call it off. But you gotta do that before you m/r, not m/r btn then go o shall I call.
Given your stack is not that bigger than villians, it's a shove on button.
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : You min raised btn v bb, think you need to think a little more pre emptive - ie. if you think vill will shove ATC then ok m/r call it off. But you gotta do that before you m/r, not m/r btn then go o shall I call. Given your stack is not that bigger than villians, it's a shove on button. Posted by rancid
Yes I should of open shoved but with my image always raising (feels like I keep repeating myself) Im expecting him to shove atc. I did not say 'oh shall I call' I snap called him. No need for me to even debate as to whether I call or not.
I decided quickly that I was going to make just the one post in the thread you started about me.
I would just like to say this though, having now seen this thread and looking at the others youve posted in the clinic.
Ihave never before been pulled up for my behaviour at the table. In fact, it is something that I have talked about plenty of times in my thread. I hate sone of the stuff that people come out with in the chat box. I was extremely disappointed that people posting in that thread took your word for it before I had any chance to respond.
Waller I have played with plenty of times and he is a pleasure to plsy against. Banter, yes, but never crosses the line.
It would appear to me that you're having issues with people who have never had any problems before.
Is it possible that you could be in the wrong?
Also the clinic is here to assist players, take on board other views and maybe learn a little.
Not to use it as a platform to try and embarrass people.
Also it would appear to be quite clear that you have absolutely no intention of listening to well meaning advice.
You seem to be very proud of your sharkscope. Are you aware that, with all respect, the players who have offered advice to you so fsr have superior records over a meaningful sample?
Incredibly, although i'm sure you will have to check it to believe it, I have a reasonable sharkscope. In addition to that, I have a few live results that I'm quite happy with.
Maybe we're not all terrible.
It's lovely that you don't want any hard feelings etc. The trouble for me is that after starting these threads and seemingly having a hazy recollection of what was said, I'm not all that inclined to be best friends.
I could fully understand your play if you had a suited hand esp if diamonds because that does flop well...don't bother with clubs and tread carefully with hearts and spades,go with your reads.Ace 4 of hearts is 93% against any hand BUT aces,where it is 95% sure(not a lot of people know that)....
I decided quickly that I was going to make just the one post in the thread you started about me. I would just like to say this though, having now seen this thread and looking at the others youve posted in the clinic. Ihave never before been pulled up for my behaviour at the table. In fact, it is something that I have talked about plenty of times in my thread. I hate sone of the stuff that people come out with in the chat box. I was extremely disappointed that people posting in that thread took your word for it before I had any chance to respond. Waller I have played with plenty of times and he is a pleasure to plsy against. Banter, yes, but never crosses the line. It would appear to me that you're having issues with people who have never had any problems before. Is it possible that you could be in the wrong? Also the clinic is here to assist players, take on board other views and maybe learn a little. Not to use it as a platform to try and embarrass people. Also it would appear to be quite clear that you have absolutely no intention of listening to well meaning advice. You seem to be very proud of your sharkscope. Are you aware that, with all respect, the players who have offered advice to you so fsr have superior records over a meaningful sample? Incredibly, although i'm sure you will have to check it to believe it, I have a reasonable sharkscope. In addition to that, I have a few live results that I'm quite happy with. Maybe we're not all terrible. It's lovely that you don't want any hard feelings etc. The trouble for me is that after starting these threads and seemingly having a hazy recollection of what was said, I'm not all that inclined to be best friends. Posted by Jac35
Jac, waller asked me to post this hand. I did not post it for advice, I posted it for him so he could see what other people had to say about the hand. I am a regular poster on 2+2 and have been for the past 3 years. I am fairly new to this site as I play mainly on 888 and full tilt. From now on, I will not post anymore hands if people berate me, just simply ignore them.
I am wrong about many things and am always using 2+2 for advice and always looking to improve my game. I am always friendly at the tables but I do not appreciate people moaning because In their opinion I made a bad call etc. They should be happy that they got me to make a bad call right?
Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run
In still not sure about my shove either tbh.........I do think given the fact that it was literally only the second hand that I played then it does get a fold from Q8 the VAST majority of the time
Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run Posted by waller02
Thank you Waller for being honest. Jac has the opinion that Im some kind of trouble maker at the tables but did I say anything offensive or wrong to you? I actually tried to explain to you why I called.
Yeah I did pipe up first tbf.......in fact my exact words were "lol and you berated jacs call" and the argument continued from there. This did finish with me saying post the hand on the clinic to see what the general opinion is because I can't see how this could ever be the right play in the long run In still not sure about my shove either tbh.........I do think given the fact that it was literally only the second hand that I played then it does get a fold from Q8 the VAST majority of the time Posted by waller02
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Thank you Waller for being honest. Jac has the opinion that Im some kind of trouble maker at the tables but did I say anything offensive or wrong to you? I actually tried to explain to you why I called. Posted by DoubleAAA
Apart from your whole argument being flawed (IMO lol) no nothing offensive was said it was all quite civil. In fact I was prob the one who maybe stepped close to the line by calling you deluded.
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Apart from your whole argument being flawed (IMO lol) no nothing offensive was said it was all quite civil. In fact I was prob the one who maybe stepped close to the line by calling you deluded. Posted by waller02
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Yes, honesty is good. In other thread you claimed I called you "donkish", not true You claimed also that "you never said it was bad or poor" "it was marginal" "it was questionable" "not saying it was bad or poor" You didn't actually say any of those things. You said it was "an horrific call" Maybe your memory isn't great or alternatively, you're not actually being truthful with your posts. Posted by Jac35
Just read what I said properly throught the post regarding you Jac and you will see that I always stated that your call was 'questionable'. Anyway, I showed the maths behind my play, and its marginally +cEV.
One question though, why did you bother to make a sarcastic comment after you lost the hand? When you give sarcasm to someone expect them to say or do something back. Move on and get over it.
Strange min raise. Strange shove. Strange call. Strange To induce in this kind of spot, you need to be significantly ahead of the opponents shoving range. With Q8o, we have 53% equity against any 2 cards, so even if he shoves 100% of the time, it's still a bad induce, particularly in a sat. Many of the hands we're ahead of, we'd rather see them folded. And of course some hands that are better than ours will fold to a shove, yet might jam over a min raise. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
I find myself repeating this constantly, Yes I should of open shoved but once he shoves its still an easy call. No way am I ever folding this given the dynamics of my image and what someone in his position should do.
On a side note, when I open shove, what is his calling range, ie percentage?
In Response to Re: Villian asked me to post this hand as said Im a donkey : Just read what I said properly throught the post regarding you Jac and you will see that I always stated that your call was 'questionable'. Anyway, I showed the maths behind my play, and its marginally +cEV. One question though, why did you bother to make a sarcastic comment after you lost the hand? When you give sarcasm to someone expect them to say or do something back. Moveon and get over it. Posted by DoubleAAA
I did, instantly
You, however, chose to start a thread. You left names in and then made things up.
As an aside. Numerous good players have explained in great detail why they think your play wasn't optimal.
You haven't listened to one word and are still jabbering on about the math and how your play was good.
Simply, it wasn't. You admitted you would have gone broke on any K high flop. Do you not see how this makes the call easy for me? There was such a low percentage of hands that could be beating me on the flop. I didn't factor in that you would call a raise with K6. You got lucky and hit your rag as well as the king. .i said something. After that I heard plenty from you in the next few minutes, things which you appear to have conveniently forgotten now.
I am now going to move on. No more from me in this thread.
Comments
Giving your shoving range I have 39.5% equity and I need to be good 39.9% (pot odds) of the time. Also, you have not factured in my image which is aggro on the table raising often.
That's why I couldn't understand why you said you 100% knew I would be shoving any 2.
If this was a standard mtt then given the stack sizes I can just about understand the play but in a satellite where a 10bb stack is ave stack and you don't need to go for the win, I think its a pretty easy fold.
I have said all I'm going to say anyway.....I'm gonna have to agree to disagree
ok well if you think villians is going to shove ATC then obviously call
I can't see your stack though, probably better to shove with Q8o
Given your stack is not that bigger than villians, it's a shove on button.
I am wrong about many things and am always using 2+2 for advice and always looking to improve my game. I am always friendly at the tables but I do not appreciate people moaning because In their opinion I made a bad call etc. They should be happy that they got me to make a bad call right?
In still not sure about my shove either tbh.........I do think given the fact that it was literally only the second hand that I played then it does get a fold from Q8 the VAST majority of the time
Strange shove.
Strange call.
Strange
To induce in this kind of spot, you need to be significantly ahead of the opponents shoving range.
With Q8o, we have 53% equity against any 2 cards, so even if he shoves 100% of the time, it's still a bad induce, particularly in a sat.
Many of the hands we're ahead of, we'd rather see them folded.
And of course some hands that are better than ours will fold to a shove, yet might jam over a min raise.
One question though, why did you bother to make a sarcastic comment after you lost the hand? When you give sarcasm to someone expect them to say or do something back. Move on and get over it.
On a side note, when I open shove, what is his calling range, ie percentage?