No sick pay, No holiday pay, No pension, 1 bad day can wipe 1 weeks profit, very brave an good luck
An not many want to quit work to play poker 10 hours a day, but many want to win the WSOP an live the good life . But 10 hours of poker a day? Keep it.
No sick pay, No holiday pay, No pension, 1 bad day can wipe 1 weeks profit, very brave an good luck An not many want to quit work to play poker 10 hours a day, but many want to win the WSOP an live the good life . But 10 hours of poker a day? Keep it. Posted by VickiPKR
no boss to answer too, no early mornings, no set hours, making good money playing a game you love. only one winner imo
In Response to Re: Making a Full Time Wage From Poker - PokerNoon's Journal : no boss to answer too, no early mornings, no set hours, making good money playing a game you love. only one winner imo Posted by THEROCK573
Like I said the absolute best of luck to the OP, I couldn't do it as quite frankly with me and my partner working no way am I capable of matching my Salary in poker winnings and I'm also very lucky as I work flexitime.
I can go in at 5am if I want to be finished early mid summer, I can go in at 11am if I want a lie in or if I want to go to the gym early. But the best of luck and run good to all who have the skill to make a living from poker. Check my Sharkscope I've gone from a huge £23 profit to around a £10 loss on this site in 2 days.
I'm still going to go to Vegas twice a year and live UK casinos like DTD with my fella monthly though in the hope of binking millions.
You played 2 DYM's and lost them both, you then played 2 more and cashed them both and you think that's progress? You lost money over the 4 games. You do realise this?
You played 4 games of poker, lost money and decided it would be a good idea to do it for a living?
Jeez people being a bit harsh. Ofc winning 2 and losing 2 means we lost on rake, but it's not like 4 games is a great sample lol, plenty of people play for a living and you could take a fragment of their results where they've lost 4 out of 4, does that mean they can't win? And I'd say he's not expected to instantly be a winning player after like a couple of weeks of learning the game.
By the sounds of things, he already makes a living from sports trading so attempting to add some income from poker isn't the be all and end all, it's not like he's saying he's given up work to make a living from poker. His income is sports trading, now he wants a few quid from poker on the side, no different from someone whose income is from working a 9-5 in an office and wants to make a few quid from poker on the side.
FWIW, DYMs at the low levels on here aren't the hardest things in the world to beat (that's not to say it's easy). If you have the right attitude/mindset and are willing to put in the work, I think with a bit of intensive coaching/help you could easily turn someone into a decent winner at £5 (and under) DYMs in like a week or two.
If you have a 5% ROI at them which is very do-able then that's 55p profit per £11 game (long term) so 90 games per day to make £50. Add to that, you probably wouldn't need to actually make £50 per day from the games cos you'd probably be making roughly £20 per day (averaged over the month) just in C4P*, so he only needs to make £30 from the games per day... so about 70 games
*70 games per day @ £1 rake = 700 points per day. 30 days = 21,000 = about £600
It's not like it's an out of this world goal, and by the sounds of it, it's not like he won't a decent income anyway even if he only ends up making £10 per day or w/e, that's still £300 per month before the 600 rakeback.
Clearly this is a very ambitious target for a newcomer. Three ingredients are required to have a chance of success; natural ability, many hours of hard work, the dedication to maintain a high volume through the festive season.
I'd say that the sports betting background is a good indicator of natural ability. Whether or not the other two requirements are in place will soon become apparent.
Thanks to all for your comments so far - even the negative posters. I still appreciate you taking the time to contribute.
Lambert nailed it really. Yes I accept that it's a big goal to set, probably even unrealistic. However in general I like to set myself goals that are a real stretch. Not impossible, but the goals require a lot of work, focus and dedication. Then I make myself as publicly accountable as possible (this thread, telling as many people as I can) in order to keep me on track when I'm tempted to get lazy.
At no point did I say 'I've cashed in 2 DYMs in a row so I'm a professional poker player'. It was just a comment that 2 losses into 2 wins is something I see as a positive. Could just be luck. But I'd rather see it as progress. Seeing progress keeps me fired up and motivated, so I try to make the most of every small win that I can.
Before I get on with today's update, first of all I want to say thanks to all the people on here who have gone out of their way to really take time out to help me with this challenge. I was half expecting to get flamed to death when I posted this, so it's nice to see a generally positive response.
Special thanks go to:
DoubleAAA: Spent a good 2 hours on Skype with this helpful chap this morning. Watched me play in a DYM and talked me through some leaks in my game. Also let me watch him play and destroy the competition. Inspiring. Admittedly it wasn't a totally selfless act on his part - in return I gave him the nuts and bolts of my trading routine. But still all round extremely useful stuff.
Jac35: Took the time to send a long PM last night with some helpful DYM stuff. Most useful was simply the advice to take notes on players, which I've been doing today. When hands get to showdown I've gotten value from going into the hand history and taking notes on what players open with, what they will call/raise with etc. Particularly the number of people who are willing to open limp UTG with utter garbage.
Lambert180: No specific one on one advice but he keeps on posting really helpful, in depth, value-add insights on my threads. I could tell straight away that this guy knows his stuff.
Sorry to anyone I've missed out here - all the help I've received so far is genuinely much appreciated.
Anyway, today's update:
Mixed day. Played 6 £5.50 DYMs, only cashed in 2. Didn't have the best luck in places (3Ks vs flush on river, 7 high straight vs 8 high straight etc). That said I don't know if I played those situations as well as I could. Yes I had made hands but on both occasions it was against opponents who were fairly passive then suddenly put in fairly chunky bets when their hands became made. On both times I thought 'he's got the flush here'/'he might have the higher straight here' but still allowed myself to either call an all-in bet or raise-all in myself.
Also I had 3K's by the flop. I was tempted to raise all in here, but wanted to squeeze as much value as possible out of the guy. I was aware there was a flush draw there but I thought the chances of him actually being on that draw and then hitting were unlikely. However calling him down then going all in by the river allowed him to catch up.
Interested to know what you think about my plays here. Currently I'm unsure of two things:
- You have a made hand by the flop. If you go all in he will very likely fold. You want to squeeze more chips out of him but you don't want him to catch up. What do you do?
- You have the 7 high straight by the river but you know he could have a 8+high straight and he's acting strong with a pot sized bet. Do you allow yourself to go all in or do you play super tight and let him have the pot if he goes all in first?
BR went down a bit so dropped to £3.30 and cashed. Thought I'd try a standard SnG so played a £0.55 one and won that.
Tomorrow I'll continue working the DYMs but also investigate standard SnGs a little more. I enjoy these games more than DYMs and it may well be that my ROI ends up being better. Not sure right now. What I do know is that sometimes playing DYMs is about as much fun as a chilli enema when you get around the bubble...they just will not end!
First off i'm going to say this target is going to be difficult purely due to volume. While you can get decent ish volume playing 3.30-5.50, 11+ the volume just isn't there even on bigger sites. The site with the biggest volume of DYM's closed them down due to widespread collusion.
£50 a day is certainly acheivable but you would have to put in a lot of volume at the 5-11 stakes that would require you probably playing atleast 8 hours a day with 9+ tables. Even then you would require a very solid winrate, 10%+ is really hard to acheive for even seasoned players these days.
That said if you want to start getting towards that goal you need to first master ICM, get some software and set it up for a DYM payout structure and master your push fold ranges. Once your really good with ICM (not the easiest task) your going to have to learn when to and when not to rely on ICM late game due to other gameplay factors. You need to definetly learn to play atleast 6 tables at a time, probably more to achieve your goal.
I think DYM's are a good place to start and learn solid tight agressive play and late game push/fold situations. However if your serious about making a living from poker DYM's probably isn't the best area long term. I'd reccomend spending a month playing and grind out 500+ games and then move to MTT's, turbo SNG's or cash where you can find good volume at the higher levels to make a living.
Good luck with this been trying to do something similar myself but with no success so far but i will get there but its going to take longer than i hoped. The rake in the DYMS is high and eats into your profits. Watch out if you play in the afternoons ive found some really good players on then who do make money consitantly playing £5 and £11 DYMs.
Ive also read your blog fasinating reading would love to get into this im trying to get my head round the Jargon. It may be odvious to most of you but when you say close out the trade what does this actually mean?
Cgoldie - thanks for your advice. The plan was to nail £5.50 tables then move up. If I can't do the volume on higher tables then this challenge will likely fail, as I wanted to get up to playing higher stakes tables rather than grinding 10000 tables at once and making 1p on each one. So based on that I may need to look at revising this challenge a little. The goal is to make £50 a day from poker, so any suggestions about where else to look? SnGs are possibly the best option right now. I'm not remotely consistent with MTTs yet, so that's out of the question.
Spinky - thanks for the kind words about my blog. I'm glad people seem to like it and take value from it. Simply put, when you close out a trade, there is a button you can click in the software to close out which gives you a guaranteed profit or loss regardless of the result of the race, based on the current odds. Exactly the same as the stock market - you buy shares in a company. The share price then goes up or down and you can close out your trade at any time for a profit or loss based on the current price.
Today's Action
Bit disappointed with myself today. After getting up at 7 or earlier the previous 2 days to play poker all day, today I slept in until midday and got up super groggy, despite drinking zero alcohol last night and going to bed before midnight.
Welcome to the world of having no job. 2 early mornings is equivalent to one hangover now. Very poor form, and probably 90% of this forum that work 12 hours a day in offices all over the country are raging as they read this right now.
However I did play in a few DYMs today. So far it seems that regardless of the level I play (highest so far being £5.50) I cash in 50% of games. That wouldn't be too bad given my experience level if it wasn't for the evil rake that as a result has destroyed my bankroll. Will have to deposit more cash tomorrow and wash, rinse, repeat.
A mate of mine went out in Southport last night and ended up at the Genting casino. Apparently on Saturday nights they run cash games. He didn't know what the limit was, but thought it was either 50/1 or 1/2 nl.
He watched the game for a while and noticed a bunch of drunk people going all in with absolutely nothing on a regular basis. He also said the casino was packed with attractive girls too...in other words my 2 favourite things. Drunk fools throwing money in my direction (potentially) and rather nice ladies - all in one room.
I never believed such a place could exist except in my dreams, until today.
So next Saturday I'll be driving down there, buying in with 100 quid and seeing how I get on. The plan is to play tight and lie in wait for that monster hand to double up. Do that 2 or 3 times and you have a very profitable evening. Sounds much easier than trying to make money in the cash games online where everyone knows what they are doing. That said I'll still be playing here all day, every day as well.
Plus on the two times I've played live, I've really enjoyed it. That said, I did find it tricky first time without a computer telling me what's going on. Once I folded in the BB when I could have checked because I allowed my attention to drift away from the action. I was fuming with myself for about an hour after that.
Things I need to improve
When I'm watching hands being analysed on skypoker, 9 times out of 10 I can see what's going on, and I see the mistakes that people make and what they should have done. However in a game where you have the super fast time bar zooming down at breakneck speed, I don't always assess everything as well as I should.
My sloppiest error is missing when potential straights appear on the turn/river. Then my set/two pair gets outdrawn and I didn't see it coming. Instead of thinking 'why is this guy betting so big', I tend to assume they probably have top pair and I'll be fine.
I think this is because postflop, you often have several people in the pot and you have time to look and assess. Turn/river, you are usually heads up, and as soon as the card appears the time bar is ticking down and you're forced to make a decision. So I decide quickly and later on I realise 'hang on...they could have a straight!'
This is something I need to cut out of my game, because it's costing me money.
One thing I would say about the above issue you noticed in your game...
You should always be thinking ahead, like if you cbet on QJ3 then straight away before you even bet you should be thinking to yourself 'which cards do I want to see on the turn/which cards do I really not wanna see on the turn', that way you've got WAY more time than just the 10 seconds and then when the K or T comes you'll know it's a potential danger cos you were already thinking about it.
Seems like you understnd the risks and have picked a good time to give it a go
I,m another one who,s intrigued by the sports betting. I,ve had dabbles at this myself and subscribed to betangel for a while. Maybe i wasn,t committed enough but it just looked to complicated.
I,d be interested to hear how you find this challenge compared with the horse trading. How much do you need to know about horses in the first place and can you transfer these skills to other sports betting such as football, golf cricket etc or even specials like reality shows
I did getmy bets restricted on one site as i was betting with them and laying off on the exchanges when the prices were right. They said i was hedging although i didn,t even know what that meant at the time
GL with the poker in the meantime
Paul
EDIT : Will be interesting to see how you get on in the casino . In my limited experience of playing cash games in casinos they are so much softer than the online games at the same level, especially on friday and saturday nights when you get the pub and club goers coming in for a gamble. I,d go myself more often but we don,t have a casino on our doorstep and have to travel nearly 30 miles to Blackpool where they have 3.
Ps - any businessmen out there? Preston needs a casino
Hi Seems like you understnd the risks and have picked a good time to give it a go I,m another one who,s intrigued by the sports betting. I,ve had dabbles at this myself and subscribed to betangel for a while. Maybe i wasn,t committed enough but it just looked to complicated. I,d be interested to hear how you find this challenge compared with the horse trading. How much do you need to know about horses in the first place and can you transfer these skills to other sports betting such as football, golf cricket etc or even specials like reality shows I did getmy bets restricted on one site as i was betting with them and laying off on the exchanges when the prices were right. They said i was hedging although i didn,t even know what that meant at the time GL with the poker in the meantime Paul EDIT : Will be interesting to see how you get on in the casino . In my limited experience of playing cash games in casinos they are so much softer than the online games at the same level, especially on friday and saturday nights when you get the pub and club goers coming in for a gamble. I,d go myself more often but we don,t have a casino on our doorstep and have to travel nearly 30 miles to Blackpool where they have 3. Ps - any businessmen out there? Preston needs a casino Posted by MP33
You don't need to know anything about horses or racing in general to trade. I know pretty much nothing even now. You're just analysing how the markets move and acting accordingly. You're not interested in form, whether a horse will win or lose, just whether the odds on a particular horse will go up or down right now. Then you bet accordingly, the price moves in the right direction, you close out the trade and profit is guaranteed regardless of what happens in the race.
It's not really comparable with normal sports betting. I bet on cricket tests because I understand how to find value at points in a test match. For example there has been extraordinary value on Australia in this Ashes series at points when they have been pretty much nailed on to win.
Back in February (I think), SA were playing Pakistan at home. They had already won the first two tests and were playing in the 3rd and final test at Centurian, a venue where they typically crush sub continental teams inside 3 days. Yet before the first ball was bowled you could back SA at 1.5 which I thought was insane...so I backed them with £5k...and they crushed Pakistan inside 3 days. To me, that was just an opportunity for free money.
You don't see value like that in football (certainly not in the EPL).
Trading wise you have to distinguish between pre-off and in-play trading. Pre-off has many factors that can affect it, whereas in-play odds only change by what happens in the game itself. Obviously in cricket you also have the weather forecast to consider.
Anyway...back to poker, which is what this journal was meant to be about ....
Lambert, cheers for that. I know I can certainly improve my thinking early on in terms of 'what cards could he have?' How did you get on in the Primo last night btw? You seemed to be doing ok last time I looked.
Comments
Very brave, goodluck...
I can go in at 5am if I want to be finished early mid summer, I can go in at 11am if I want a lie in or if I want to go to the gym early. But the best of luck and run good to all who have the skill to make a living from poker. Check my Sharkscope I've gone from a huge £23 profit to around a £10 loss on this site in 2 days.
I'm still going to go to Vegas twice a year and live UK casinos like DTD with my fella monthly though in the hope of binking millions.
You played 2 DYM's and lost them both, you then played 2 more and cashed them both and you think that's progress? You lost money over the 4 games. You do realise this?
You played 4 games of poker, lost money and decided it would be a good idea to do it for a living?
If you were a horse, the odds on you achieving this would be about 100,000/1
But have fun and dream the dream... that's poker for the majority of us
I'd say that the sports betting background is a good indicator of natural ability. Whether or not the other two requirements are in place will soon become apparent.
Good luck PokerNoon!