Ok, I'm going to try this as I think I'm pretty good at DYMs and have made progress trying it before before another drunken adventure decimated my BR. Started yesterday with £50. Played 4 £5 ones at once and cashed in them all, once with a K10 suck-out vs A10 and another one I flopped quads vs FH in the first orbit for stacks and still only just scraped through. Good start though and will aim to play 40 of them today. I realise it sound like ludicrous BR management but I don't think it's that bad as they're fairly low variance when playing 4 at once I find. We'll see. Current BR :£68 and think I have about 890 points thus far. Posted by bandini
Hi Bandini, thanks for all your support and kind words in this thread. Really pleased you're going to give it a go and I wish you the very best of luck with it. £50 would be low for me but I wouldn't say rediculous, especially with a 4/4 start ;-). I hope today (a big day by the sounds of it) is going/went well and if there are any updates I will look forward to reading them.
Very surprised that you are doing a DYM challenege. I always assumed that you made an income from this with your profits/cash for points. Surely by doing these kind of challenges could harm your game and roll overall? Posted by scotty77
Hi Scotty. Yeah I did do for a while. Had loads of connections problems though which I couldn't sort. Lost a fair portion of my 'roll spent some on computer stuff and no joy at all :-(. I'm taking a step back from poker at the moment and will mainly focus on my tournament game. I withdrew the remainder of my 'roll for a holiday and stuff so now what you see on this thread is my 'roll. As soon as I did it though I wanted it back (at least a grand) :-( so that's part of my motivation for the challenge. Another part is that it fits in well with the blog coming out and others can join me in my quest to build a 'roll. Above all, though, I hope it's going to be fun.
As an aside, I forgot to mention on the challenge post, I still intend to play quite a few MTTs (DTD etc) but when I do, I will deposit exactly the sum of the buy-ins and withdraw exactly the returns.
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Hi again salad, sorry it's taken a while. Regarding bankroll management, my ideas are outlined in the blog, so I will need at least 20 buy-ins (£23) before moving up to the £1.15 DYMs. You are right I am not going to rush and I am very keen to succeed with the challenge, with that in mind I think 20-22 buy-ins is fine, but if anything a touch on the aggressive side anyway. You could be right that for the £0.60s 20 buy-ins won't be necessary but 10 would definitely be too low, personally I'd be playing scared money then. It's worth noting my first session resulted in a £2.75 (or 4.5 buy-in) loss! Bankroll management is all about your personal goals/circumstances/attitude to risk etc and obviously you're fine starting with 10 buy-ins. I wish you every success in your own challenge and I would look forward to reading some updates on here if you would post them. Regarding your other question, it's a very good question and I find it very tricky to answer. In fact I've re-written this part a few times now lol. What I think it basically comes down to is this. I don't think they vary according to levels, as such, no. But it can vary according to specific (fairly unusual to be honest) circumstances/fields (I mentioned some factors in the blog that might alter my thinking). As a result of this I think you might find that some adjustments occur more frequently in lower buy-in fields and some in higher ones. But they occur because of the circumstances/field rather than the actual stake, in my opinion. Posted by JohnConnor
Good answer, i have taken note of these values as obviously when it comes to the later stages of the DYM they are by far the most importent, and getting blinded out is extremly fustrating! You are right, i think i am being a tad optimistic with my roll, but we shall see!
I guess i will be bumping into you on quite a few tables... Good luck!
Not much to report from this session other than that I ran quite badly, AA failing to hold up 3 times :-(. The only hand I noted again concerned the 'co-operation play' (I promised this thread is not all about these, these are just what are standing out in the £0.60s so far):
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
JohnConnor
Small blind
200.00
200.00
2020.00
mrssherrif
Big blind
400.00
600.00
1805.00
Your hole cards
K
K
KINGCANUTE
All-in
1660.00
2260.00
0.00
xxx
Call
1660.00
3920.00
4255.00
JohnConnor
Call
1460.00
5380.00
560.00
mrssherrif
Fold
Flop
J
4
8
JohnConnor
Check
xxx
Check
Turn
5
JohnConnor
Check
xxx
All-in
4255.00
9635.00
0.00
JohnConnor
All-in
560.00
10195.00
0.00
xxx
Unmatched bet
3695.00
6500.00
3695.00
JohnConnor
Show
K
K
KINGCANUTE
Show
A
2
xxx
Show
A
6
River
8
JohnConnor
Win
Two Pairs, Kings and 8s
6500.00
6500.00
Awful play by xxx again and this was an easy call for me. For one, I've observed that players at this level don't understand the play. But the main reason, I started the hand with more chips than the first all-in (obviously) so the only way I don't cash here is if that players hand comes first out of the 3 hands out there (or tied first). (Thirdly I think I'm ahead of both anyway with my overpair). Even if the A had hit the river, xxx's 6 kicker would have played and knocked KINGCANUTE out in 4th as I had more chips than them before the hand started.
Day stats: Played 22 £0.60s W12 L10 Bankroll: £13.97. Very disappointing start to the challenge but still confident, ran pretty poorly today but saw plenty to inspire confidence.
PS. I'm on holiday for a week now, will pick up the updates when I get back and also answer any questions/address any comments if any more are posted. Hope to see some of you progressing in your own challenges when I get back.
Long time no see jc. Hope all is well. Great blog (very long mind). like scotty77, i am surprised to see you doing this challenge, when you could be multi-tabling 22 n 33 dyms for very nice proffit ! Best of luck tho, hope to see you at the bigger stakes is the not so distant future.
Long time no see jc. Hope all is well. Great blog (very long mind). like scotty77, i am surprised to see you doing this challenge, when you could be multi-tabling 22 n 33 dyms for very nice proffit ! Best of luck tho, hope to see you at the bigger stakes is the not so distant future. Posted by 1267
Thanks 1267, hope all is well with you too. Great to see support from a player who I believe to be among the elite DYM players on the site and who I've played many games with. Best of luck to you too mate.
Excellent read JC. What kind of ROI can a good player expect from these (what do you get or what do you aim for if you don't mind me asking) If I played 100 £5.50 DYMs for an investment of £550 (obviously), I'd need to win 55 to break even, but how many would you expect to be winning per hundred? Posted by Lambert180
Hi lambert. As a die hard DYM'er myself, personally id say aiming to win 55-65 games is a very realistic target. You may/will have spells where you win less than 55 due to variance, but hopefully youll have just as many or more very good spells aswell, winning more than 65 percent. (hoping to win 80 odd percent is just unrealistic) The level ur playing obviously affects this alot. Personally playing 5.50 dyms i'd hope to be winning plus 65 percent as that would be my main proffit. Whereas when playing 33 and 55 £ DYMs winning only 55 percent can still be very proffitable if multi-tabling. I only multi-table 4 tables, and most months manage to accumulate over 12k points, giving me a tidy proffit thanks to the cash for points scheme . Hope this helps GL at the tables.
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Hi Bandini, thanks for all your support and kind words in this thread. Really pleased you're going to give it a go and I wish you the very best of luck with it. £50 would be low for me but I wouldn't say rediculous, especially with a 4/4 start ;-). I hope today (a big day by the sounds of it) is going/went well and if there are any updates I will look forward to reading them. Posted by JohnConnor
Cheers Matt.
This is going to be somewhat unorthodox. But entertaining at least one would hope.
One of my few non-hungover Sundays so grinded. Ran so bad it was unreal. Think I played 24. Two 4 losing sessions (I play 4 at a time until they finish so I know where I am). 1 3win/1lose, rest 2/2. Premiums were getting busted continuously, dominating hands were getting destroyed. I made a couple of mistakes but had almost zero luck and didn't think I played too bad. W9, L15. BR was £30ish. Played an £11 one because I thought luck had to turn. Nope. Off out to my local live game which was our 3 monthly one which we save a wee bit towards each week so biggish money involved for prizes (for us). Again it was head shaking in disbelief stuff. Hey-ho.
Home by 8 after re-buying and still being 4th out. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Arranged to meet my latest lady friend but loaded up a £10 turbo. Doubled up early but still didn't cash. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Met my lady friend and came home cheery. Deposited £100 and tested my luck again. A £50 and a £30 dym. Cashed in neither. Pretty annoyed tbh and only had £25ish left. Was only interested in £50dyms due to pure drunken arrogance but had already hit my deposit limit. Roullette! Strangely got paid a few times when I thought I'd missed. Must have forgot to re-set it or something, not sure, happened too fast. Anyhoo, spun it up to £60ish. £55dym! Cashed! BR £110ish. Reg'd for a £30 one and a £50 one but they were never filling. So £50 Russian Roullette! Cashed! Withdrew the £100 that I couldn't really afford to lose. BR about £55 and that will do all things considering. I'll grind them again starting tomorrow.
I think I might have breeched your BR advice a tad. But all's good. Tomorrow's another day. Further updates shall be forthcoming, I can't run that bad again in the £5 ones. Not possible.
The above is all true, but don't copy me kids. It ain't clever!
Oh for the days when I had an £800 BR. Where did that go?! Oh yeah, I remember now.
hi i have a question, i read through your method and i kinda already use a method similar to that, i learned to play poker on the DYMs on other sites, when i came to sky i moved on to cash tables, but the varience is so high, and then i realised that whenever i lost at the cash tables i could just go play a DYM and win it all back only once out of 5 times did i attempt to do this and fail
anyways my question is this, when starting off with a small bankroll, i have built my BR up to £20 on the cash tables but then hit a blocker of ups and downs, do you think it would be more profitable if i started playing DYMs to build on the bank roll?or should i stick to cash tables?
lol bandini your a leg-end, have you been to an SPT yet if not why? what a character please post more of your randomness. Preferably be stricter with BRM but hey ho all fun and games
I think I might have breeched your BR advice a tad. Posted by bandini
Great line
the reason you have bankroll management is to prevent going bust with a bit of bad luck
Nice blog, agreed with all of it. I don't mind a DYM but as 1267 says, it's just not realistic to win 80% so it comes down to volume which is hard work when you have a day job and play for fun.
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Cheers Matt. This is going to be somewhat unorthodox. But entertaining at least one would hope. One of my few non-hungover Sundays so grinded. Ran so bad it was unreal. Think I played 24. Two 4 losing sessions (I play 4 at a time until they finish so I know where I am). 1 3win/1lose, rest 2/2. Premiums were getting busted continuously, dominating hands were getting destroyed. I made a couple of mistakes but had almost zero luck and didn't think I played too bad. W9, L15. BR was £30ish. Played an £11 one because I thought luck had to turn. Nope. Off out to my local live game which was our 3 monthly one which we save a wee bit towards each week so biggish money involved for prizes (for us). Again it was head shaking in disbelief stuff. Hey-ho. Home by 8 after re-buying and still being 4th out. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Arranged to meet my latest lady friend but loaded up a £10 turbo. Doubled up early but still didn't cash. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Met my lady friend and came home cheery. Deposited £100 and tested my luck again. A £50 and a £30 dym. Cashed in neither. Pretty annoyed tbh and only had £25ish left. Was only interested in £50dyms due to pure drunken arrogance but had already hit my deposit limit. Roullette! Strangely got paid a few times when I thought I'd missed. Must have forgot to re-set it or something, not sure, happened too fast. Anyhoo, spun it up to £60ish. £55dym! Cashed! BR £110ish. Reg'd for a £30 one and a £50 one but they were never filling. So £50 Russian Roullette! Cashed! Withdrew the £100 that I couldn't really afford to lose. BR about £55 and that will do all things considering. I'll grind them again starting tomorrow. I think I might have breeched your BR advice a tad. But all's good. Tomorrow's another day. Further updates shall be forthcoming, I can't run that bad again in the £5 ones. Not possible. The above is all true, but don't copy me kids.Itain't clever! Oh for the days when I had an £800 BR. Where did that go?! Oh yeah, I remember now. Posted by bandini
Nice comeback m8 ! All's well that ends well eh Was just gonna ask 1 thing if you don't mind. Do you get a buzz out of these roller coaster rides man ? Great read btw, good post. Gl with your game and lady friends ! Oh btw that red bit was one of the funniest things i've ever read man. I have a sneaking suspicion that your idea of "grinding " is a wee different to most peoples. Oh well ....
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : hahahahahaha Classic .. gimme 2 minutes with this guy XD.. Anyway sorry to bring him up again.. .Back to the thread ..... Great job JC, just showing a bit of support m8 (not that you need it;), its a lot of your time you giving here, so respect to you!! Gl to anyone who is giving this challenge a go, will be interesting... Posted by WHOAMI196
Are you including the monthly bonus in your challenge?
A couple weeks ago I had £30 in my account which is now £220 through almost exclusively playing DYMs and I was also planning to get to £1000 before withdrawing lol so does this count for this challenge? (I know it's just for fun)
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Are you including the monthly bonus in your challenge? A couple weeks ago I had £30 in my account which is now £220 through almost exclusively playing DYMs and I was also planning to get to £1000 before withdrawing lol so does this count for this challenge? (I know it's just for fun) Posted by Poker_Fail
Yes why not! this thread i think is mainly about the strategy and beating the game side of things, the challenge just makes it the more interesting, just make it a personal one!
im not taking part but i will be spectator for sure! tbh i have never really played em and naively thought there was no real money to be made there, but nowing its an ideal platform to learn esp with a small bankroll,.
im impressed m8 that you have made that much profit already! i think this is an ideal thread for you, updating your progress reg of the daily grind to get to 1000k it will be interesting to see, and im sure helpfull to other people who will chose this route as their bankroll builder. GL m8.
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Yes why not! this thread i think is mainly about the strategy and beating the game side of things, the challenge just makes it the more interesting, just make it a personal one! im not taking part but i will be spectator for sure! tbh i have never really played em and naively thought there was no real money to be made there, but nowing its an ideal platform to learn esp with a small bankroll,. im impressed m8 that you have made that much profit already! i think this is an ideal thread for you, updating your progress reg of the daily grind to get to 1000k it will be interesting to see, and im sure helpfull to other people who will chose this route as their bankroll builder. GL m8. Posted by WHOAMI196
Well thanks a lot
Do you think I should include or subtract the £30 bonus I will get at the start of October?
I have almost exclusively played £1.15 to £5.50 DYMs (and their Turbo form) since the 1st September, and will ONLY play DYMs until I reach my goal.
1st September: £30ish
19th September: £217.54 GL to all on their own venture
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Well thanks a lot Do you think I should include or subtract the £30 bonus I will get at the start of October? I have almost exclusively played £1.15 to £5.50 DYMs (and their Turbo form) since the 1st September, and will ONLY play DYMs until I reach my goal. 1st September: £30ish 19th September: £217.54 GL to all on their own venture Posted by Poker_Fail
Up to you m8 but i would include it, its the reward in return for points gained from playing ..and i think the cash for points is a crucial part of dym's with helping the profit margins...
In Response to Re: ABC of DYM's, by JOHNCONNOR : Up to you m8 but i would include it, its the reward in return for points gained from playing ..and i think the cash for points is a crucial part of dym's with helping the profit margins... Gl anyways m8, best of luck Posted by WHOAMI196
@ YG : No, I've never been to an SPT. I'm 300 miles before I'm even out of Scotland and it's just too much time and money for a poker tournament. Play the Highland Poker Tour and that will do me for now. I'm also a bit wary of making a drunken t1t of myself on tv :-) Maybe if they come back to Scotland.
@ B_M : I get a buzz out of the rolleroasters when I'm at the top. Not so much at the bottom :-)
Played 12 tonight, won 8. BR: £69. Points : 1270
That's some results Poker Fail! Did you go to IrishRover's school of luck? :-)
somebody off forum has challenged me to hit a certain target at these playing just 5.50 games by this time next month
played 8 i think tonight "won" 7
as he is well aware i find these very very boring and tedious so the challenge is whether i can do it night in night out
the "standard" is horrific
three examples from tonight
example one player a is down to 600 or so chips at 150-300 he folds down to 150 and then doubles up and then moans when his a10 is beaten by a nutter who pushed with 7 3. said nutter who pushed every hand from level 3 in despite player a not showing any indication of playing a hand.
example two players a and b both have a big chip lead after early coin toss against two other plays, they can basically pick me off they however decide to clash all in at level 3 with a9 against k10 whilst i watch on , beyond belief
example three standard play down to 4 handed i have fairly but not unbeatable chip lead, other three plays instant fold every hand for fifteen minutes or so allowing me to fold with them eventually two collide when they have 2 bb's each
Comments
As an aside, I forgot to mention on the challenge post, I still intend to play quite a few MTTs (DTD etc) but when I do, I will deposit exactly the sum of the buy-ins and withdraw exactly the returns.
Not much to report from this session other than that I ran quite badly, AA failing to hold up 3 times :-(. The only hand I noted again concerned the 'co-operation play' (I promised this thread is not all about these, these are just what are standing out in the £0.60s so far):
Day stats:
Played 22 £0.60s W12 L10
Bankroll: £13.97. Very disappointing start to the challenge but still confident, ran pretty poorly today but saw plenty to inspire confidence.
PS. I'm on holiday for a week now, will pick up the updates when I get back and also answer any questions/address any comments if any more are posted. Hope to see some of you progressing in your own challenges when I get back.
Run well everyone,
JC
Long time no see jc. Hope all is well.
Great blog (very long mind).
like scotty77, i am surprised to see you doing this challenge, when you could be multi-tabling 22 n 33 dyms for very nice proffit !
Best of luck tho, hope to see you at the bigger stakes is the not so distant future.
As a die hard DYM'er myself, personally id say aiming to win 55-65 games is a very realistic target. You may/will have spells where you win less than 55 due to variance, but hopefully youll have just as many or more very good spells aswell, winning more than 65 percent. (hoping to win 80 odd percent is just unrealistic)
The level ur playing obviously affects this alot. Personally playing 5.50 dyms i'd hope to be winning plus 65 percent as that would be my main proffit. Whereas when playing 33 and 55 £ DYMs winning only 55 percent can still be very proffitable if multi-tabling. I only multi-table 4 tables, and most months manage to accumulate over 12k points, giving me a tidy proffit thanks to the cash for points scheme .
Hope this helps
GL at the tables.
This is going to be somewhat unorthodox. But entertaining at least one would hope.
One of my few non-hungover Sundays so grinded. Ran so bad it was unreal. Think I played 24. Two 4 losing sessions (I play 4 at a time until they finish so I know where I am). 1 3win/1lose, rest 2/2. Premiums were getting busted continuously, dominating hands were getting destroyed. I made a couple of mistakes but had almost zero luck and didn't think I played too bad. W9, L15. BR was £30ish. Played an £11 one because I thought luck had to turn. Nope. Off out to my local live game which was our 3 monthly one which we save a wee bit towards each week so biggish money involved for prizes (for us). Again it was head shaking in disbelief stuff. Hey-ho.
Home by 8 after re-buying and still being 4th out. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Arranged to meet my latest lady friend but loaded up a £10 turbo. Doubled up early but still didn't cash. Sigh, sigh, sigh. Met my lady friend and came home cheery. Deposited £100 and tested my luck again. A £50 and a £30 dym. Cashed in neither. Pretty annoyed tbh and only had £25ish left. Was only interested in £50dyms due to pure drunken arrogance but had already hit my deposit limit. Roullette! Strangely got paid a few times when I thought I'd missed. Must have forgot to re-set it or something, not sure, happened too fast. Anyhoo, spun it up to £60ish. £55dym! Cashed! BR £110ish. Reg'd for a £30 one and a £50 one but they were never filling. So £50 Russian Roullette! Cashed! Withdrew the £100 that I couldn't really afford to lose. BR about £55 and that will do all things considering. I'll grind them again starting tomorrow.
I think I might have breeched your BR advice a tad. But all's good. Tomorrow's another day. Further updates shall be forthcoming, I can't run that bad again in the £5 ones. Not possible.
The above is all true, but don't copy me kids. It ain't clever!
Oh for the days when I had an £800 BR. Where did that go?! Oh yeah, I remember now.
only once out of 5 times did i attempt to do this and fail
anyways my question is this, when starting off with a small bankroll, i have built my BR up to £20 on the cash tables but then hit a blocker of ups and downs, do you think it would be more profitable if i started playing DYMs to build on the bank roll?or should i stick to cash tables?
Great line
the reason you have bankroll management is to prevent going bust with a bit of bad luck
Nice blog, agreed with all of it. I don't mind a DYM but as 1267 says, it's just not realistic to win 80% so it comes down to volume which is hard work when you have a day job and play for fun.
Was just gonna ask 1 thing if you don't mind. Do you get a buzz out of these roller coaster rides man ?
Great read btw, good post. Gl with your game and lady friends !
Oh btw that red bit was one of the funniest things i've ever read man. I have a sneaking suspicion that your idea of "grinding " is a wee different to most peoples. Oh well ....
vive la différence !
A couple weeks ago I had £30 in my account which is now £220 through almost exclusively playing DYMs and I was also planning to get to £1000 before withdrawing lol so does this count for this challenge? (I know it's just for fun)
Do you think I should include or subtract the £30 bonus I will get at the start of October?
I have almost exclusively played £1.15 to £5.50 DYMs (and their Turbo form) since the 1st September, and will ONLY play DYMs until I reach my goal.
1st September: £30ish
19th September: £217.54 GL to all on their own venture
Finished for the night, Won 20 of 22
3of 3 @30p
5of 7 @£1.15
7of 7 @£2.25
4of 4 @£3.30
1of 1 @£5.50
Not bad results for 1st update : )
Current Bankroll: £224.49
@ B_M : I get a buzz out of the rolleroasters when I'm at the top. Not so much at the bottom :-)
Played 12 tonight, won 8. BR: £69. Points : 1270
That's some results Poker Fail! Did you go to IrishRover's school of luck? :-)
played 8 i think tonight "won" 7
as he is well aware i find these very very boring and tedious so the challenge is whether i can do it night in night out
the "standard" is horrific
three examples from tonight
example one player a is down to 600 or so chips at 150-300 he folds down to 150 and then doubles up and then moans when his a10 is beaten by a nutter who pushed with 7 3. said nutter who pushed every hand from level 3 in despite player a not showing any indication of playing a hand.
example two players a and b both have a big chip lead after early coin toss against two other plays, they can basically pick me off they however decide to clash all in at level 3 with a9 against k10 whilst i watch on , beyond belief
example three standard play down to 4 handed i have fairly but not unbeatable chip lead, other three plays instant fold every hand for fifteen minutes or so allowing me to fold with them eventually two collide when they have 2 bb's each
amazing scenes