I basically am left with no choice but to leave the site when this is implemented.... new company in charge ringing out every bit of profit they can at the expense of the players.
Lets stick this on 2+2 and see what the general concensus to this would be!!
in no way shape or form is this more profitable for anyone but sky.
Also anyone earning 8000+ points a month is NOT going to give the tiniest bit of interest in the freerolls lol
time to move my my entire volume to the sites where I get 33% as a VALUED customer
I basically am left with no choice but to leave the site when this is implemented.... new company in charge ringing out every bit of profit they can at the expense of the players. Lets stick this on 2+2 and see what the general concensus to this would be!! in no way shape or form is this more profitable for anyone but sky. Also anyone earning 8000+ points a month is NOT going to give the tiniest bit of interest in the freerolls lol time to move my my entire volume to the sites where I get 33% as a VALUED customer Posted by Itsover4u
No offence but......... Who cares what 2+2 trolls think
It is THIS community that matters! Look at the spread sheet, we ain't talking big numbers here. Sure a lot of people were leaving after 861....... But....... Site doing better than ever. Assume this will be the same, is an adjustment.
Fair play to sky for opening this up early and having amazing people like TK, Jp etc taking the time to respond to all questions, no matter how daft. When I put prices up, first thing little tommy knows about it is when he has made choice to stop and has no option other than too buy tea or carry on driving, hoping to find a cheaper one else where. Maybe needs a canine boost there and then, so no choice. Hey, plus side is though he gets more reward points as has spent more...... Oh sounds similar?? Well it should. Rewards are there to drive spend and loyalty. To suggest a mass boycott is funny, did lol at that one. See you at tables next month
I was under the impression that you get entered into a different freeroll based on how many points you earned and couldn't see why everyone was complaining so much, guess I'm completely wrong with that then and there's just 5 £1k freerolls 5 days a week that anyone can enter?
If the free-rolls depended on the points you earned then that would make some sense.
I was under the impression that you get entered into a different freeroll based on how many points you earned and couldn't see why everyone was complaining so much, guess I'm completely wrong with that then and there's just 5 £1k freerolls 5 days a week that anyone can enter? If the free-rolls depended on the points you earned then that would make some sense. Posted by F_Ivanovic
Yeh gerardirl it's on rake paid so to get 50 points means playing £55 of comps in 1 week, big ask for most micro stakes fun players. @DTM, I dunno, I aint got the numbers, but I'd imagine most cash regs fall between 10-20k points (we cant all be a machine like you) and that category is better off, even the 20k-29,999 people are barely touched at all. The people that are harmed are people that make 30k points like you. Sucks for you like but I reckon there must be what, 5 people, maybe 10 max on the whole site who earn 30k every month from cash? Most prio regs will be <30k and better off imo I aint got the numbers tho and I doubt JP is allowed to share them. Posted by Lambert180
Can get exact numbers after next months Apple bundle freerolls
In Response to Re: New Sky Poker Rewards : No offence but......... Who cares what 2+2 trolls think It is THIS community that matters! Look at the spread sheet, we ain't talking big numbers here. Sure a lot of people were leaving after 861....... But....... Site doing better than ever. Assume this will be the same, is an adjustment. Fair play to sky for opening this up early and having amazing people like TK, Jp etc taking the time to respond to all questions, no matter how daft. When I put prices up, first thing little tommy knows about it is when he has made choice to stop and has no option other than too buy tea or carry on driving, hoping to find a cheaper one else where. Maybe needs a canine boost there and then, so no choice. Hey, plus side is though he gets more reward points as has spent more...... Oh sounds similar?? Well it should. Rewards are there to drive spend and loyalty. To suggest a mass boycott is funny, did lol at that one. See you at tables next month Posted by Nuggy962
In Response to Re: New Sky Poker Rewards : No offence but......... Who cares what 2+2 trolls think It is THIS community that matters! Look at the spread sheet, we ain't talking big numbers here. Sure a lot of people were leaving after 861....... But....... Site doing better than ever. Assume this will be the same, is an adjustment. Fair play to sky for opening this up early and having amazing people like TK, Jp etc taking the time to respond to all questions, no matter how daft. When I put prices up, first thing little tommy knows about it is when he has made choice to stop and has no option other than too buy tea or carry on driving, hoping to find a cheaper one else where. Maybe needs a canine boost there and then, so no choice. Hey, plus side is though he gets more reward points as has spent more...... Oh sounds similar?? Well it should. Rewards are there to drive spend and loyalty. To suggest a mass boycott is funny, did lol at that one. See you at tables next month Posted by Nuggy962
If u read the comments you will find there not happy,and thats the cummunity speaking not 2+2.
no seriously 1st of June im done & I 100% will guarentee I will be one of many. This makes AMAYA seem like the saints of poker. Imagine if your boss decided to take 60% - 100% of your comission away lol. the freerolls are laughable and they must not think very much of us advertising it as "new and improved" never mind your bottom line you want to make sure the bottom does not fall off all together!! every break even grinder has zero reason to stay on the site which in turn makes less money for the reg .... and leaves the recs to get obliterated CONGRATS Posted by Itsover4u
In Response to Re: New Sky Poker Rewards : Really? I very much doubt it. Posted by MattBates
Its probably not so much of an issue when you are on 100% rakeback + numerous other extras Matt... if you dont think numbers will drop I think you are wrong.
I cant think of one other poker site that NOW does not give its players a better deal than this, tell me why players apart from the ignorant would continue to play here.... industry leading software? .... record breaking guarentees? or non of the above.
I had zero problem adding sky to part of my volume and have enjoyed the last year or whatever but this is what is wrong with poker and why less and less players are being attracted to the game. If you want to get on the bandwagon good for you as you have a good deal but you ust surely see where 80% of the people on this thread are coming from?
Anyone who puts in decent volume gets 28 - 33% rakeback as standard.
What they have done is an insult and to insult our intelligence by telling us it will be better for the vast majority is just wrong and a bad sign of what the future holds.
Are you telling me this a positive step? Even Daniel Negranu wouldnt try to put a positive spin on this
In Response to Re: New Sky Poker Rewards : Its probably not so much of an issue when you are on 100% rakeback + numerous other extras Matt... if you dont think numbers will drop I think you are wrong. I cant think of one other poker site that NOW does not give its players a better deal than this, tell me why players apart from the ignorant would continue to play here.... industry leading software? .... record breaking guarentees? or non of the above. I had zero problem adding sky to part of my volume and have enjoyed the last year or whatever but this is what is wrong with poker and why less and less players are being attracted to the game. If you want to get on the bandwagon good for you as you have a good deal but you ust surely see where 80% of the people on this thread are coming from? Anyone who puts in decent volume gets 28 - 33% rakeback as standard. What they have done is an insult and to insult our intelligence by telling us it will be better for the vast majority is just wrong and a bad sign of what the future holds. Are you telling me this a positive step? Even Daniel Negranu wouldnt try to put a positive spin on this Posted by Itsover4u
For the bold part, to be honest I should know better than reading past this. Just having this bizarre 'let's state something I make up as fact and try and pick apart the argument against it when it comes so it makes me look more credible' garbage accusation in your post negates any validity in the whole lot. What possible knowledge or evidence do you have to base this on?
For the italic part, I can think of several. Amazingly there is not a rakeback comparison site out there yet, mainly because most sites run complicated and somewhat different models, also as soon as you throw in affiliates it's almost impossible to nail down what is what, especially for networks which can have differences skin to skin via affiliates. The next best I could find was a rather decent article written by J Tringer on February of this year. I can't link it as it has other site banners but you have enough information to find it. It compares the top three sites. For the two big ones you're looking at between 15% and 18%, unless you start grinding to SN levels where a bit better than 30% is available. But very very few people can hit those marks, certainly not recreational, semi pro or most pro tournament players. They have another site there which I believe is now part of a network, it has 25% with possibilities of 50% with affiliates. However more digging around the internet will find traffic isn't great to help you achieve those numbers.
I've had a quick scoot around the other sites and far too many articles and the numbers you are saying are just not wildly available or offered solely by the site unless you're getting in a time machine bound for ten years ago. You said decent volume? To hit those marks we are talking much more than decent, and even that is barely offered just by a poker site.
For the bold italic part, for me it's not as black and white as that. I partially agree with some of it, well mainly on one point of the changes which I will detail in my own post. But as I am here, there are positives. A friend who is unable to post on this forum has shown me a detailed breakdown of the real effects. The positive changes are this is a shot in the arm for the SnG recs who achieve a medium to high volume, it's much needed to help the player pool and imo overdue. While they are not quite on par with the cash regs hitting similar marks, the gap is closed somewhat and this is a very positive move. The main ones to take a hit are high (but not the highest) cash grinding regs. I am usually part of this group and I'm ok taking another on the chin here. Personally I don't play for RB and I don't think the drop is too steep.
This is an absolute joke. So this new scheme is affectively a 3% rake increase. New and improved is not how I'd refer to this mockery! Posted by dub1
You are exactly what is wrong with poker playing regs. You have set the rewards bonus as a base and promised salary/return. It's not. Bonus and RB schemes are always at the discretion of the poker room, and it is these me me me attitudes which kill games and turn sites off giving rewards/RB out. You take and you expect and are so sure this status quo is yours by right. It's not.
You have only looked at how these changes affect you. Not recreational players who are the very lifeblood of the game. Just you, because everything should be great for you without a care for the actual ecology of the site or the experience for anyone else.
If you want to play just for RB and a base return, get googling for affiliate sites and the sites they serve, and hope the deal doesn't collapse or the site you are locked into doesn't lose traffic or worse.
Sky to do list: 1) Make rewards system so complex no one understands 2) Dont do anything about ridiculous state of lobby 3) Annoy existing loyal players by offering new players a much better deal You couldnt make it up Posted by ajs4385
I agree with the above. Felt the need to highlight this before launching into my own as it cliffnotes the crux rather well.
So I've had a good think about these changes. In honesty I think it's a generally positive move with two major asterisks attached.
Let's start with the positives. A good friend of mine unable to post here (loves pocket jacks, Penguins and is always one year too young to go to Vegas) has detailed a thorough breakdown of the real changes players will see. Fairly consistent recreational players and low volume regs will see either negligible changes or a slight increase. The real incentive is to make it into Priority where there is across the board increases if you only just get in or can volume up to get into that first tier in there.
SnG players who get into Prio and above really see some benefits. They all get an increase and as it's been so long since this player pool has really had a positive change, since leaderboards and such were discontinued many moons ago. It's a shot in the arm for that player pool and will hopefully increase traffic again in those areas. Hopefully a monthly leaderboard promo or something similar will be introduced for the MTT players and we can move towards a bit more of an even spread.
The select few at the tip top end (of which I am yet to be a part of) of high level grinders will get a marked increase. For the percentage of the rake they contribute, it's hard to argue against this and the increase seems reasonable.
OK, my two big concerns/asterisks.
1) Those who would earn 500 points and less per week. They are pretty much the lifeblood of any poker site imo. I don't like such a high threshold before any cash return is available. I feel it's too high. Even a quid back is a nice gesture if you just play for fun, it's a nice feeling. I've seen elsewhere talk about the freerolls offered. Some think these will be an absolute boon to the recreational player, and I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking in truth but not without doubts. I think that element may in time bridge the gap and give Recs what they actually want, more recreational tournaments and a shot at a decent prize provided the freerolls are maintained at the least as they are.
Concerning the £2.20 token. This could complement the freeroll argument above. However I feel there are two draw backs here. They should be made cumulative to give the Rec even more incentive to keep their business with the site, because saving the tokens for the big shot is much more appealing. and secondly the choices to spend a single £2.20 are really limited. We keep being told (and I agree with this) that Bounty Hunters are really popular with Recs. There's is not from what I can see a £2.20 BHer. There are £2.30 ones. And please don't say they'll be fine to spring an extra ten pence, if the token is a free tournament then make it a free tourney. Knock the token up to applicable for any game where it is a £2 contribution to the prizepool, the rake has already been paid for with these.
I have concerns in this first area as detailed above but I see ways this could all work and I do have faith that SkyPoker are monitoring this situation and do have recreational players in mind.
However I do have a lack of faith in my second asterisk.
I'm going to be blunt as I have already been longwinded above. I agree affiliate and new player promos are necessary. I agree they do attract new players to the site. I also believe that the part of the playerpool hit negatively by the changes, cash regs who gain 20k-40k points a month, are the one section most likely to see and know about these affiliate sites and deals whereas the vast majority will not come across them. I do not trust that there is not a few Regs who will chance their arm at a cheating second account to take advantage of these new player deals.
And the blunt part, of course I cannot go into which individual cases, but I notice and I see. With these occasions of alledged multiaccounting, I do not have faith that SkyPoker can prevent a significant amount of these potential multiaccounts early enough or at all. And that is my major concern by having those carrots out there combined with these changes.
I've noticed on the affiliate site they say you can request a "retag" of your account in some cases to get the applicable bonuses.
(We may be able to get your existing poker account retagged to us for a rakeback/VIP program (depending on which network the room is on). Please fill in the form below and click submit- http://www.raketherake.com/support/retag-requests). Is this true? Has anybody tried it? Surely a better less risky option than having to cheat the system.
So I've had a good think about these changes. In honesty I think it's a generally positive move with two major asterisks attached. Let's start with the positives. A good friend of mine unable to post here (loves pocket jacks, Penguins and is always one year too young to go to Vegas) has detailed a thorough breakdown of the real changes players will see. Fairly consistent recreational players and low volume regs will see either negligible changes or a slight increase. The real incentive is to make it into Priority where there is across the board increases if you only just get in or can volume up to get into that first tier in there. Posted by TommyD
I agree with the general tenet of Tommy's thoughts. The one part that I do disagree with is highlighted above.
In one of my previous posts, I mentioned that it is usual to use the midpoint of any new tiers to establish the average effect of these sorts of changes-the table to which Tommy refers is a classic example of this. In the midrange (2000-8000 points) some of the figures given are at the very best point for supporters of the new rakeback in the sense that they are the start of new tiers. To demonstrate:-
1,996 points (499 per week) New £8.80 tokens, old £19.96 (NB-the 3000 points is wrong on the original graph) 7,996 points (1999 per week) New £119.94, old £160
These figures show the high point, and as such would be unfair to use as a comparison, just as the graph was-that is why midpoints tend to give a fairer indication.
There is a significant disadvantage to the volume MTTers on this site-I agree "the real incentive is to make Priority" but, as Matt mentioned earlier, that is not realistic on MTTs alone.
As a sky regular for over 3 years playing one or two tournaments probably 5 nights a week I currently average 250-300 points a month.
I love sky, any cash bonus I receive is exactly that a bonus.
I don't play free roles but will look at the new scheme and take a view.
The vast majority of rec players like myself will not stop playing, if a couple of pound is that that important to someone should they be gambling at all.
No one likes change, Sky as a company are not going to introduce a scheme that negatively impacts on the majority of it's members.
I think that it has been stated that any changes will be reviewed.
Let the new system run for a couple of months, then lets all give input positive and negative.
My Dad told me when I was 3 that life's not fair, it still isn't.
Throwing your toys out of the pram is not the answer.
Comments
For the italic part, I can think of several. Amazingly there is not a rakeback comparison site out there yet, mainly because most sites run complicated and somewhat different models, also as soon as you throw in affiliates it's almost impossible to nail down what is what, especially for networks which can have differences skin to skin via affiliates. The next best I could find was a rather decent article written by J Tringer on February of this year. I can't link it as it has other site banners but you have enough information to find it. It compares the top three sites. For the two big ones you're looking at between 15% and 18%, unless you start grinding to SN levels where a bit better than 30% is available. But very very few people can hit those marks, certainly not recreational, semi pro or most pro tournament players. They have another site there which I believe is now part of a network, it has 25% with possibilities of 50% with affiliates. However more digging around the internet will find traffic isn't great to help you achieve those numbers.
I've had a quick scoot around the other sites and far too many articles and the numbers you are saying are just not wildly available or offered solely by the site unless you're getting in a time machine bound for ten years ago. You said decent volume? To hit those marks we are talking much more than decent, and even that is barely offered just by a poker site.
For the bold italic part, for me it's not as black and white as that. I partially agree with some of it, well mainly on one point of the changes which I will detail in my own post. But as I am here, there are positives. A friend who is unable to post on this forum has shown me a detailed breakdown of the real effects. The positive changes are this is a shot in the arm for the SnG recs who achieve a medium to high volume, it's much needed to help the player pool and imo overdue. While they are not quite on par with the cash regs hitting similar marks, the gap is closed somewhat and this is a very positive move. The main ones to take a hit are high (but not the highest) cash grinding regs. I am usually part of this group and I'm ok taking another on the chin here. Personally I don't play for RB and I don't think the drop is too steep.
You have only looked at how these changes affect you. Not recreational players who are the very lifeblood of the game. Just you, because everything should be great for you without a care for the actual ecology of the site or the experience for anyone else.
If you want to play just for RB and a base return, get googling for affiliate sites and the sites they serve, and hope the deal doesn't collapse or the site you are locked into doesn't lose traffic or worse.
Best of luck in your future endeavours.
Let's start with the positives. A good friend of mine unable to post here (loves pocket jacks, Penguins and is always one year too young to go to Vegas) has detailed a thorough breakdown of the real changes players will see. Fairly consistent recreational players and low volume regs will see either negligible changes or a slight increase. The real incentive is to make it into Priority where there is across the board increases if you only just get in or can volume up to get into that first tier in there.
SnG players who get into Prio and above really see some benefits. They all get an increase and as it's been so long since this player pool has really had a positive change, since leaderboards and such were discontinued many moons ago. It's a shot in the arm for that player pool and will hopefully increase traffic again in those areas. Hopefully a monthly leaderboard promo or something similar will be introduced for the MTT players and we can move towards a bit more of an even spread.
The select few at the tip top end (of which I am yet to be a part of) of high level grinders will get a marked increase. For the percentage of the rake they contribute, it's hard to argue against this and the increase seems reasonable.
OK, my two big concerns/asterisks.
1) Those who would earn 500 points and less per week. They are pretty much the lifeblood of any poker site imo. I don't like such a high threshold before any cash return is available. I feel it's too high. Even a quid back is a nice gesture if you just play for fun, it's a nice feeling. I've seen elsewhere talk about the freerolls offered. Some think these will be an absolute boon to the recreational player, and I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking in truth but not without doubts. I think that element may in time bridge the gap and give Recs what they actually want, more recreational tournaments and a shot at a decent prize provided the freerolls are maintained at the least as they are.
Concerning the £2.20 token. This could complement the freeroll argument above. However I feel there are two draw backs here. They should be made cumulative to give the Rec even more incentive to keep their business with the site, because saving the tokens for the big shot is much more appealing. and secondly the choices to spend a single £2.20 are really limited. We keep being told (and I agree with this) that Bounty Hunters are really popular with Recs. There's is not from what I can see a £2.20 BHer. There are £2.30 ones. And please don't say they'll be fine to spring an extra ten pence, if the token is a free tournament then make it a free tourney. Knock the token up to applicable for any game where it is a £2 contribution to the prizepool, the rake has already been paid for with these.
I have concerns in this first area as detailed above but I see ways this could all work and I do have faith that SkyPoker are monitoring this situation and do have recreational players in mind.
However I do have a lack of faith in my second asterisk.
I'm going to be blunt as I have already been longwinded above. I agree affiliate and new player promos are necessary. I agree they do attract new players to the site. I also believe that the part of the playerpool hit negatively by the changes, cash regs who gain 20k-40k points a month, are the one section most likely to see and know about these affiliate sites and deals whereas the vast majority will not come across them. I do not trust that there is not a few Regs who will chance their arm at a cheating second account to take advantage of these new player deals.
And the blunt part, of course I cannot go into which individual cases, but I notice and I see. With these occasions of alledged multiaccounting, I do not have faith that SkyPoker can prevent a significant amount of these potential multiaccounts early enough or at all. And that is my major concern by having those carrots out there combined with these changes.
Thank you for reading.
In one of my previous posts, I mentioned that it is usual to use the midpoint of any new tiers to establish the average effect of these sorts of changes-the table to which Tommy refers is a classic example of this. In the midrange (2000-8000 points) some of the figures given are at the very best point for supporters of the new rakeback in the sense that they are the start of new tiers. To demonstrate:-
1,996 points (499 per week) New £8.80 tokens, old £19.96
(NB-the 3000 points is wrong on the original graph)
7,996 points (1999 per week) New £119.94, old £160
These figures show the high point, and as such would be unfair to use as a comparison, just as the graph was-that is why midpoints tend to give a fairer indication.
There is a significant disadvantage to the volume MTTers on this site-I agree "the real incentive is to make Priority" but, as Matt mentioned earlier, that is not realistic on MTTs alone.
As a sky regular for over 3 years playing one or two tournaments probably 5 nights a week
I currently average 250-300 points a month.
I love sky, any cash bonus I receive is exactly that a bonus.
I don't play free roles but will look at the new scheme and take a view.
The vast majority of rec players like myself will not stop playing, if a couple of pound is
that that important to someone should they be gambling at all.
No one likes change, Sky as a company are not going to introduce a scheme that negatively
impacts on the majority of it's members.
I think that it has been stated that any changes will be reviewed.
Let the new system run for a couple of months, then lets all give input positive and negative.
My Dad told me when I was 3 that life's not fair, it still isn't.
Throwing your toys out of the pram is not the answer.
Win some money and life may seem a little fairer.
Daggers.