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Highs Lows & Scoopio's

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    weecheez1weecheez1 Member Posts: 1,680
    edited August 2016
    Chris it's a pleasure playing with you and like you I play with my for fun first and if there's a profit great what I have found is watching videos and analysing hands that people post is really helpful my game now compared to where I started is unrecognisable and the more you do it the more you notice and it's like a light bulb moment when you start to do things automatically keep having fun and run golden
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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 160,970
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    Chris it's a pleasure playing with you and like you I play with my for fun first and if there's a profit great what I have found is watching videos and analysing hands that people post is really helpful my game now compared to where I started is unrecognisable and the more you do it the more you notice and it's like a light bulb moment when you start to do things automatically keep having fun and run golden
    Posted by weecheez1
    Have to add, your game has come on by leaps & bounds, Cheezy. As I know to my cost. How DO you always have it? ;). Rarely see you waste a chip.

    Hard to think of anyone who has improved as much as you so quickly. And the main thing is you enjoy the game, win or lose. That's is the big win for folks like you & me.
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    bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,702
    edited August 2016
    Hi Chris.

    Everyone makes mistakes, the first part to improving is being a player who recognises when they've made them.  If you know you've made a mistake then that's a good start!  It's a tough and relatively static player pool in the PLO8 DYMs so once you've got the fundamentals (which from seeing you play I'm sure you understand) you must start developing player-dependant strategies to survive or win chips when you can.

    Good luck.
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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    Chris it's a pleasure playing with you and like you I play with my for fun first and if there's a profit great what I have found is watching videos and analysing hands that people post is really helpful my game now compared to where I started is unrecognisable and the more you do it the more you notice and it's like a light bulb moment when you start to do things automatically keep having fun and run golden
    Posted by weecheez1



    so what videos do you watch, is ther much on youtube with plo8??
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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    Morning Chris. First up, I would not worry too much that your results have not been quite as good this week. In truth, your early results, when you were winning north of 70% of games played was near impossible to sustain. You are still winning almost 60% of your games, & even that may be a tad to high to sustain, but you have good basics, & I think you will settle around 57% or 58% imo, which is profitable. Your numbers have been hurt a bit by losing the only 2 £5.50 games, too. Don't worry about that, the £3 & £5 player pools are virtually the same players.   There's more to these games than just knowledge of how to play PLO8 though - being DYM savvy, & aware of what is going on around you as to stack sizes etc is equally important. You also need to look for "spots", in particular players who don't understand or grasp the different strategy required for a DYM compared to an MTT. The tactics are completely different. Also, look for players with big stacks who can't grasp the difference between a DYM & an MTT - these guys often open or look others up wide, as they seem to think more chips = bigger man sausage. You don't get a penny extra for ending a DYM with 10,000 chips, so think SURVIVAL not willy waving.    And when you get a big stack 4 handed, THINK about it. The game is locked, you don't need to mess about. Losing a DYM from that spot is a dreadful mistake & should never happen. Just play "savvy" poker.  You can learn by watching others, too - if you ever see helland or huuuuuume at the tables in PLO8 DYM's, try & watch them. Poetry in motion, they are effortlessly good & rarely waste a chip.   If you have any questions, or hand histories that you need help with, put them up & you'll get plenty of replies from the experienced players.   Good luck m8.       
    Posted by Tikay10

    Cheers tikay, will tyr to take that on boeard and wathc thee players youve mentioned, dont thhnk theres many games ive lost when ive had a big stack, going to look through some hand histories just now and post some stuff up.

    will be looking for the one i managed to claw back yesterday when i only had prob 1bb left :)

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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    Hi Chris. Everyone makes mistakes, the first part to improving is being a player who recognises when they've made them.  If you know you've made a mistake then that's a good start!  It's a tough and relatively static player pool in the PLO8 DYMs so once you've got the fundamentals (which from seeing you play I'm sure you understand) you must start developing player-dependant strategies to survive or win chips when you can. Good luck.
    Posted by bbMike

    thanks for the feedback mike, yeah defo noiticing some leaks i think, one of them was yesterday when i though i had the low with the A. and got beat with a better low without an A. 23456 to be precice, think i had 7 low. was little things like this gets me lost some times and that timer goes real quick when im trying to figure out what lows are beating mine.

    ill get there though.
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    5501355013 Member Posts: 336
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's---- : so what videos do you watch, is ther much on youtube with plo8??
    Posted by Chris_Mc
    Seen this one with Jason Somerville Chris?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wh9ayFpLhc

    Canny cool dude him.


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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    So,  100 games of plo8 complete, and happy with results as such but wouldve liked to kept a better win to loss ratio. Throwing some silly ones away throughout the 101 games and some silly calls, but hopefully learned alot through them and hope the next 100 games will better from this. main thing is though still enjoying it and looking forward to to continue playing this when i can. So going to post some hands below throughout tha last few day, some mistakes some scoops and prob more mistakes, the list may be long lol.



    this hand was a couple of days ago, and few hands i quckly i seemed to be getting involved with the same player, ide bet hed call or raise, it must have been about 3 or 4 hands similer run till i just went if it happens gain im calling or raining all in just to see. < (this is not a wise thing to do)  ill call him "this guy!"

    HAND 1

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    eddie2 Small blind   15.00 15.00 2122.50
    Chris_Mc Big blind   30.00 45.00 1780.00
      Your hole cards
    • 3
    • 6
    • K
    • 4
    		     
    tikay1 Fold     
    THIS GUY!                      Call   30.00 75.00 2107.50
    ajax31 Call   30.00 105.00 1865.00
    Pintpot Call   30.00 135.00 1890.00
    eddie2 Fold     
    Chris_Mc Check     
    Flop
       
    • K
    • 6
    • 8
    		     
    Chris_Mc Check     
     THIS GUY!                       Bet   135.00 270.00 1972.50
    ajax31 Fold     
    Pintpot Fold     
    Chris_Mc Call   135.00 405.00 1645.00
    Turn
       
    • 10
    		     
    Chris_Mc Check     
     THIS GUY!            Check     
    River
       
    • 7
    		     
    Chris_Mc Bet   202.50 607.50 1442.50
      THIS GUY!                     Raise   1012.50 1620.00 960.00
    Chris_Mc Fold     
      THIS GUY!                      Muck     
      THIS GUY!                      Win   810.00   1770.00
      THIS GUY!                     Return   810.00 0.00 2580.00



    and the thing not to do below.

    HAND 2

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    tikay1 Small blind   25.00 25.00 2045.00
     THIS GUY!                       Big blind   50.00 75.00 2740.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • 10
    • 6
    • 2
    		     
    ajax31 Fold     
    Pintpot Fold     
    eddie2 Fold     
    Chris_Mc Raise   175.00 250.00 1207.50
    tikay1 Fold     
     THIS GUY!                       Call   125.00 375.00 2615.00
    Flop
       
    • K
    • 10
    • 9
    		     
     THIS GUY!                      Check     
    Chris_Mc Check     
    Turn
       
    • 6
    		     
      THIS GUY!                     Bet   375.00 750.00 2240.00
    Chris_Mc Call   375.00 1125.00 832.50
    River
       
    • 9
    		     
      THIS GUY!                     Bet   1125.00 2250.00 1115.00
    Chris_Mc All-in   832.50 3082.50 0.00
      THIS GUY!                     Unmatched bet   292.50 2790.00 1407.50
      THIS GUY!                     Show
    • 8
    • 4
    • 3
    • 7
    		   
    Chris_Mc Show
    • A
    • 10
    • 6
    • 2
    		   
     THIS GUY!                      Win high Straight to the 10 2790.00   4197.50
      No qualifying low hand     


    but... The very next game got off to a flyer with little beauty!

    HAND 3

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    scank300 Small blind   10.00 10.00 1990.00
    noviceplay Big blind   20.00 30.00 1980.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • 2
    • 4
    • A
    		     
    Chris_Mc Raise   70.00 100.00 1930.00
    tazl2024 Fold     
    sjb10000 Call   70.00 170.00 1930.00
    tikay1 Fold     
    scank300 Fold     
    noviceplay Call   50.00 220.00 1930.00
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 7
    • 9
    		     
    noviceplay Bet   20.00 240.00 1910.00
    Chris_Mc Raise   150.00 390.00 1780.00
    sjb10000 Call   150.00 540.00 1780.00
    noviceplay Call   130.00 670.00 1780.00
    Turn
       
    • 10
    		     
    noviceplay Check     
    Chris_Mc Bet   335.00 1005.00 1445.00
    sjb10000 Call   335.00 1340.00 1445.00
    noviceplay Call   335.00 1675.00 1445.00
    River
       
    • 5
    		     
    noviceplay Check     
    Chris_Mc Bet   837.50 2512.50 607.50
    sjb10000 All-in   1445.00 3957.50 0.00
    noviceplay Fold     
    Chris_Mc All-in   607.50 4565.00 0.00
    Chris_Mc Show
    • A
    • 2
    • 4
    • A
    		   
    sjb10000 Show
    • 2
    • A
    • 9
    • Q
    		   
    Chris_Mc Win high Flush to the Ace 2282.50   2282.50
    Chris_Mc Win low 7-low 2282.50   4565.00

    After starting a couple of games yesterday the wife and the little ones came in.. so that mena no peacefull poker time, but continue to play but with minium concenstration, i acatuall made 2 terrable calls in 3 games that kncked me out and was on my way for a 3rd exit nearly blinded out,  one of them was re-raing all in with str8 not clicking that 3rd club had dropped and of course ran into nut flush. Before i knew it 3rd game in my stack was at about 800 will have to look in a minute and folded till i had no choice, but the hand i was foldiong where just terrible so opted to fold (A) either it goes in with worse when i have no choice (b) it goes when i have no choice but the hand is not bad com,pared to what i had. OPTION (b) worked out AND WENT ON TO CASH!

    HAND 4 (mistake against flush)

    Hand History #1065660190 (19:46 06/08/2016)

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    sjb10000 Small blind   75.00 75.00 977.50
    Chris_Mc Big blind   150.00 225.00 1375.00
      Your hole cards
    • Q
    • Q
    • 8
    • 10
    		     
    Enut Fold     
    tikay1 Fold     
    VespaPX Fold     
    C_horse Raise   300.00 525.00 1610.00
    sjb10000 Fold     
    Chris_Mc Call   150.00 675.00 1225.00
    Flop
       
    • J
    • 9
    • 10
    		     
    Chris_Mc Bet   337.50 1012.50 887.50
    C_horse Call   337.50 1350.00 1272.50
    Turn
       
    • Q
    		     
    Chris_Mc Check     
    C_horse Check     
    River
       
    • 8
    		     
    Chris_Mc Check     
    C_horse Bet   675.00 2025.00 597.50
    Chris_Mc All-in   887.50 2912.50 0.00
    C_horse Call   212.50 3125.00 385.00
    Chris_Mc Show
    • Q
    • Q
    • 8
    • 10
    		   
    C_horse Show
    • Q
    • 7
    • A
    • 4
    		   
    C_horse Win high Flush to the Ace 3125.00   3510.00
      No qualifying low hand     


    so this was the start of my comeback which was nice, i  know i reaslly shouldt let mysel get that low low.. folded hands where


    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Chris_Mc Small blind   100.00 100.00 292.50
    tikay1 Big blind   200.00 300.00 6675.00
      Your hole cards
    • 6
    • 3
    • J
    • K
    		     
    gerardirl Fold     
    weecheez1 Fold     
    Chris_Mc All-in   292.50 592.50 0.00
    tikay1 Call   192.50 785.00 6482.50
    Chris_Mc Show
    • 6
    • 3
    • J
    • K
    		   
    tikay1 Show
    • 7
    • Q
    • 3
    • 10
    		   
    Flop
       
    • 4
    • 5
    • 4
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 2
    		     
    River
       
    • 3
    		     
    Chris_Mc Win high Straight to the 6 392.50   392.50
    Chris_Mc Win low 6-low 392.50   785.00

    Well thats enough hands for now will hopefully still learn from some daft mistakes, there is a couple of hands i want to post but cant find them oner was in a game with hendrik where i made a great call and scooped but a voice in my head is telkling me it wasnt a great call because i normally find myself losing these calls to sets or F/hs ill see if i can dig it out.

    table stands as

    PLO8 DYMWONLOSTPLAYED
    0.602 2
    1.15112
    2.25729
    3.30444084
    5.50224
    TOTAL5645101

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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's---- : Seen this one with Jason Somerville Chris? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wh9ayFpLhc Canny cool dude him.
    Posted by 55013

    No havent seen hime before, but will watch it just now as i play.

    cheers
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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    well plo8 coming along nicely, not maged to spew all my roll but seems to be sitting around the same mark, not really increasing, but mainly still gettin plenty of games out it :) so all good.
    Been playing most nights and seem to be holding my own and getting a better grasp of it,. although there was this game a couple of nights ago where there where 4 left and one of those we will just check all around as the 4th was all in apart from 25.7 chips. i runner runner nut flush no low on board and it goes... 27.5 chips checks and this guy who plays quite alot of plo8 and posts quite alot on the forum and trying to learn new tricks... i wont name any names lol anyway get to me and i decide to min bet whcih was 600 trying to get the 27.5 chips in but no luck there he folds........... i didnt really see to much wrong with this... but a question mark apeared in the chat box whcih i feel was typed in such a furious manner lol. as if a finger nearly broke hitting that key on the board. anyway a few hands later it over, another fun game (only fun coz i cashed) with 4 remaining last night seemed to go on for quite a bit where the likely 4th place finsher made a good comeback and managed ro cash.

    Also now not that big news for the regs of site..  oh.... wait...just flopped quad 7's here 2secs....................................................................................................................... ok anyway so im on my first leaderbopard ever on sky poker on track to win £3 quid  on league 2 although steadily dropping down nightly lol but hopefully get there. also tokens are adding up a little and once they get to £11 ill try one of those plo8 dyms at that level.

    oiff the table not much happning, new job role has been a little stressfull as i feel im hitting a brick wall and not achieving what i want to be, but took a turn today and things finally starting to look up so fingers crossed as id love to succeed in the new role and dont like failing at things.  got next Monday off and cant wait as its the 1st born by the name of Chloe house of McCaffery has her very first day of school, not gonna lie mega excited lol.

    anyway back to the table hopefully hit more quads!!!!!!!


    PLO8 DYMWONLOSTPLAYED0.602 21.151122.2592113.305142935.50345TOTAL6649115


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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    Good morning all ! happy saturday and may the poker gods have mercy on you! In a good mood got a bit of long lie and didnt get up till 10!! long lie to me mabye not others, but joining the army str8 from school then into traing after anything after 06.00 counts as a lie in!

    Little one, well the bigger of the two little ones, stayed at er' grannies last night so i finallly got a chance to watch batman v superman, whiuch unlile most reviews ive read or heard, i really enjoyed it. bacbk to watching Neil deGrasse Tysonn tofay though, if u haven seen  my previous post on him about a spacetime oddessy i rteccomend u give it watch!

    Currently having a coffee and watching the other litle lady just flap around on her mat watching tv, know i have to go tthrough all what ive went through allready lol tbf .. most them will be good times apart from the terrible two's. the otrger starts school on monday excited abouit that managed to book Monday off although i forgot i made an appaointment with someone in the mornoing, so im now kinda off lol, commitment right there. working on your holiday... its either commitment or stupidity i havent decided yet.

    well time to get some plo8 on the go, starting with a 60p game its pretty full, not much happning on 3.30's or 5.50's just now.

    current stats at

    PLO8 DYMWONLOSTPLAYED
    0.602 2
    1.15112
    2.259211
    3.305449102
    5.50448
    TOTAL7056126




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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    So today been quite a good day, won 10 out of 12 which is always nice and increased my roll a little, nothing huge but enough for me to keep onm going at the plo8.  Just finished my last game where i got it in with AAxx against akxx with churchy, flop comes Q 10 X and im intantly just saying no Jack and its sealed on the river, really cant complain though ive been on the other side of that flip[ numerous time in the last 138 games, feel im playing quite well and daft decisions are still there but definatly minimal compared to what they where.

    couple of scoops.....
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance ajmilton Small blind   200.00 200.00 3609.37 Chris_Mc Big blind   400.00 600.00 1785.63   Your hole cards A 3 2 A       tikay1 Fold      POMPEY2007 Fold      ajmilton Raise   600.00 1200.00 3009.37 Chris_Mc All-in   1785.63 2985.63 0.00 ajmilton Raise   2771.26 5756.89 238.11 ajmilton Unmatched bet   1385.63 4371.26 1623.74 ajmilton Show 5 K 5 K     Chris_Mc Show A 3 2 A    Flop     J 8 A       Turn     7       River     8       Chris_Mc Win high Full House, Aces and 8s 2185.64   2185.64 Chris_Mc Win low 8-low 2185.62   4371.26


    another..

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance ajmilton Small blind   100.00 100.00 4679.37 Chris_Mc Big blind   200.00 300.00 2485.63   Your hole cards 5 4 3 K       churchy18 Fold      tikay1 Fold      POMPEY2007 Fold      ajmilton Call   100.00 400.00 4579.37 Chris_Mc Check     Flop     4 Q 2       ajmilton Check      Chris_Mc Check     Turn     A       ajmilton Check      Chris_Mc Bet   200.00 600.00 2285.63 ajmilton Call   200.00 800.00 4379.37 River     3       ajmilton Check      Chris_Mc Bet   600.00 1400.00 1685.63 ajmilton Call   600.00 2000.00 3779.37 Chris_Mc Show 5 4 3 K     ajmilton Muck 3 K 9 A     Chris_Mc Win high Straight to the 5 1000.00   2685.63 Chris_Mc Win low 5-low 1000.00   3685.63
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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    mabye get on later for a couple more, but going to take a little break for now


    so been a productive day table sits at


    PLO8 DYMWONLOSTPLAYED 
    0.603 3 
    1.15112 
    2.2510212 
    3.306251113 
    5.5044
    8
    		 
    TOTAL8058138 

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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    So started the day with a 60p dym and had to hold myself cool in the chatbox,
    went down to 4 reasonbly quick and a 4th player away from the start looking not to show throughout, couple of players going.
    fairly standard play from thjat point you would think....... but not the case.

    lets look...

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    PACU1 Small blind   75.00 75.00 5608.75
    bigbob57 Big blind   150.00 225.00 3217.50
      Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 5
    • 6
    • K
    		     
    Chris_Mc Fold     
    tazl2024 Fold     
    PACU1 Call   75.00 300.00 5533.75
    bigbob57 Check     
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • 4
    • 5
    		     
    PACU1 Bet   300.00 600.00 5233.75
    bigbob57 Raise   1200.00 1800.00 2017.50
    PACU1 Call   900.00 2700.00 4333.75
    Turn
       
    • K
    		     
    PACU1 Bet   150.00 2850.00 4183.75
    bigbob57 All-in   2017.50 4867.50 0.00
    PACU1 Call   1867.50 6735.00 2316.25
    PACU1 Show
    • 7
    • 8
    • 3
    • 10
    		   
    bigbob57 Show
    • 2
    • J
    • A
    • Q
    		   
    River
       
    • 7
    		     
    PACU1 Win high Straight to the 8 3367.50   5683.75
    bigbob57 Win low 6-low 3367.50   3367.50

    and again....

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    PACU1 Small blind   75.00 75.00 5608.75
    bigbob57 Big blind   150.00 225.00 3217.50
      Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 5
    • 6
    • K
    		     
    Chris_Mc Fold     
    tazl2024 Fold     
    PACU1 Call   75.00 300.00 5533.75
    bigbob57 Check     
    Flop
       
    • 6
    • 4
    • 5
    		     
    PACU1 Bet   300.00 600.00 5233.75
    bigbob57 Raise   1200.00 1800.00 2017.50
    PACU1 Call   900.00 2700.00 4333.75
    Turn
       
    • K
    		     
    PACU1 Bet   150.00 2850.00 4183.75
    bigbob57 All-in   2017.50 4867.50 0.00
    PACU1 Call   1867.50 6735.00 2316.25
    PACU1 Show
    • 7
    • 8
    • 3
    • 10
    		   
    bigbob57 Show
    • 2
    • J
    • A
    • Q
    		   
    River
       
    • 7
    		     
    PACU1 Win high Straight to the 8 3367.50   5683.75
    bigbob57 Win low 6-low 3367.50   3367.50


    imo not going through al of them... but they had stacks yoyoing of 6000, to 2000 back up and just going with it, i was hoping one to scoop and get over and done with,

    i did have to type.. is this a dym we are playing... just incase but there was no reply.

    weird game.


    anyway of to see if theres any games going.







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    Chris_McChris_Mc Member Posts: 1,340
    edited August 2016
    Good morning all!

    stuff in genral,

    So been a a good week but not with poker, not really been playing as much this week.
    the liitle ones 1st week of school went well and she seems to be enjoying it.  Also joined a bowling club this week so we will see how that goes. i do intend to be club champ in the first season :)

    Went out to watch the Celtic game on wednesday, just one more leg to go with 3 goal lead going into that. Its great to see them playing good again. Brendan seems to have made a massive impact hopefully it stays that way. Scott b rown looking like a new player, forrest seems to have hin confedence back but final ball still not the best, plus hopefully roberts back for next week as well.

    poker stuff and weird DYM

    ON the poker fron i ahve only managed a few games think most of them has went well, although br not growing much because im place some small bets on the football, none have came in yet :(

    one game just kep goin the other night, i have only seen 2 DYM's get to 500/100 normally with 4 players left, well playing with Tikay, mmchips, pompeynic and alexis 74 we went 5 handed at 500/1000 tghyen 4 handed at 600/1200 and dont know how.. we managewd a some orbits at 800/1600, Now how do u approach a plo8 DYM at this level.  I honestly didnt know what to do, do i shove here do i not do i try and keep 60 chips and hope someone busts first.....HOW DO U APPROACH THIS !!!!!!! LOL.   Lucky for me i managed to cash but very very very enjoyable game... small hand below

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance mmmchips Small blind   800.00 800.00 1020.00 tikay1 Big blind   1600.00 2400.00 6140.00   Your hole cards 8 6 A 5       pompeynic Fold      Chris_Mc All-in   1660.00 4060.00 0.00 mmmchips Fold      tikay1 Call   60.00 4120.00 6080.00 tikay1 Show J A 5 Q     Chris_Mc Show 8 6 A 5    Flop     4 8 6       Turn     9       River     A       Chris_Mc Win high Two Pairs, Aces and 8s 2060.00   2060.00 tikay1 Win low 8-low 1030.00   7110.00 Chris_Mc Win low 8-low 1030.00   3090.00
     





    TABLE FOR NOW.....

    PLO8 DYMWONLOSTPLAYED
    0.604 4
    1.15112
    2.2510313
    3.306553116
    5.506510
    TOTAL8662148

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    Phantom66Phantom66 Member Posts: 5,542
    edited August 2016
    On the 1600bb hand. It is very close but I think it's a fold. 

    It's probably counter intuitive as you have a suited ace some connected cards and low hand possibilities.

    But...

    You have 0 fold equity.

    Shove and sb should insta fold and BB has to call and you are only 54% against a random hand.

    Fold and sb and bb will probably be all in and if not you are out of the blinds next hand too.

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    Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,478
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's---- whats the approach to an 800/1600 blind level:
    On the 1600bb hand. It is very close but I think it's a fold.  It's probably counter intuitive as you have a suited ace some connected cards and low hand possibilities. But... You have 0 fold equity. Shove and sb should insta fold and  BB has to call and you are only 54% against a random hand. Fold and sb and bb will probably be all in and if not you are out of the blinds next hand too.
    Posted by Phantom66
    I'm pretty sure I'm folding in sb here with or without button shove 

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    Phantom66Phantom66 Member Posts: 5,542
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's---- whats the approach to an 800/1600 blind level:
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's---- whats the approach to an 800/1600 blind level : I'm pretty sure I'm folding in sb here with or without button shove 
    Posted by Jac35
    Agreed should have counted the chips properly. Unless they wake up with an absolute monster.

    Still a fold from button though imo.

    Trick is try and not be in the last hand of a dym. Unless you are short and have to shove or you can call with a good hand and with ideally limited risk to tourney if you lose.

    800/1600 though not much room to manoeuvre. Nice to get the point where in button and utg with chips left and then hope for an all-in.

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    EvilPinguEvilPingu Member Posts: 3,462
    edited August 2016
    Re: 800/1600 hand.

    Worked out the stacks at the start of the hand, and Pompey only has 780 chips. If you shove, you're probably ahead vs any 4 that Tikay has to call off with, but it's gonna be far better to not take that situation and ladder.

    If you fold, it's reasonable to assume Tikay gets a walk, which is the most likely outcome in the hand (If mmmchips shoves, it's almost certainly a mistake anyway, and that's good for us). Pompey will be in the BB next hand for less than Tikay's SB, so you cash whenever Tikay scoops because you and mmmchips should fold close to everything, if not absolutely everything, in that situation with BB all in. I would not be at all surprised if folding any 4 is optimal for both of you.

    Whenever he wins half of the pot or less, he's going to be all in from the SB on your BB the hand after, so when Tikay doesn't scoop, you cash if you scoop, assuming both opponents in the hand choose to fold. Tikay would be justified in limping some ultra strong stuff from UTG here I suspect, but mmmchips should (if he's playing correctly) fold any 4, and the most likely outcome is you flip vs all in SB.

    If the SB survives that a second time, we can still fold the SB (even if he scoops) and have Pompey flipping against Tikay again before we have to stick our last few hundred chips in in the BB again. Essentially, folding gives us plenty of opportunities for one of our opponents to get scooped against (At least 2, often more) before we have to put our tournament life at risk, whereas by shoving, we put our own tournament life at risk for very little gain. 

    Yes, we'll win more chips than we lose, but that's irrelevant because we'll also lose more money than we win, because the chips we lose are worth so much more money than the chips we win. Our tournament life is way, way more valuable than the few hundred chips we may or may not win in this type of game.

    Also, given how in PLO8, equities are so much closer, we're almost always better off folding way more than you'd expect. If you compare with an identical spot but in NLHE, if we get Aces, we are no less than 77% regardless of our opponent's holding (Excluding AA). Therefore, in NLHE, we can shove AA/KK/Possibly QQ here and it's absolutely fine, because the huge equity advantage we have vs our opponent's any 2 cards outweights the equity we need in the hand in order to put our tournament life at risk in a DYM.

    In PLO8, even premiums (AA23ds, A234ds etc) are never going to have that kind of advantage over an opponent with 4 random cards. Idk how much equity Ac 6c 5c 8d has vs Tikay's any 4 that he has to call with, but if it's anything more than 55%, I'll be shocked. We're going to be haemorrhaging money shoving this particular hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're haemorrhaging money with any 4 cards by doing anything besides folding.

    Cliffs: It's a trivial fold because of ICM in DYMs, combined with how equities in PLO8 are much closer than in other Poker variants. The value of our stack isn't linear in the same way that it would be at a cash table. Scooping, while useful, doesn't make an enormous difference to us, whereas getting scooped against is a disaster. Similarly, getting quartered is far worse for us than winning 3/4s is beneficial to us.
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    GlenelgGlenelg Member Posts: 6,554
    edited August 2016
    In Response to Re: ----Highs Lows & Scoopio's----:
    Re: 800/1600 hand. Worked out the stacks at the start of the hand, and Pompey only has 780 chips. If you shove, you're probably ahead vs any 4 that Tikay has to call off with, but it's gonna be far better to not take that situation and ladder. If you fold, it's reasonable to assume Tikay gets a walk, which is the most likely outcome in the hand (If mmmchips shoves, it's almost certainly a mistake anyway, and that's good for us). Pompey will be in the BB next hand for less than Tikay's SB, so you cash whenever Tikay scoops because you and mmmchips should fold close to everything, if not absolutely everything, in that situation with BB all in. I would not be at all surprised if folding any 4 is optimal for both of you. Whenever he wins half of the pot or less, he's going to be all in from the SB on your BB the hand after, so when Tikay doesn't scoop, you cash if you scoop, assuming both opponents in the hand choose to fold. Tikay would be justified in limping some ultra strong stuff from UTG here I suspect, but mmmchips should (if he's playing correctly) fold any 4, and the most likely outcome is you flip vs all in SB. If the SB survives that a second time, we can still fold the SB (even if he scoops) and have Pompey flipping against Tikay again before we have to stick our last few hundred chips in in the BB again. Essentially, folding gives us plenty of opportunities for one of our opponents to get scooped against (At least 2, often more) before we have to put our tournament life at risk, whereas by shoving, we put our own tournament life at risk for very little gain.  Yes, we'll win more chips than we lose, but that's irrelevant because we'll also lose more money than we win, because the chips we lose are worth so much more money than the chips we win. Our tournament life is way, way more valuable than the few hundred chips we may or may not win in this type of game. Also, given how in PLO8, equities are so much closer, we're almost always better off folding way more than you'd expect. If you compare with an identical spot but in NLHE, if we get Aces, we are no less than 77% regardless of our opponent's holding (Excluding AA). Therefore, in NLHE, we can shove AA/KK/Possibly QQ here and it's absolutely fine, because the huge equity advantage we have vs our opponent's any 2 cards outweights the equity we need in the hand in order to put our tournament life at risk in a DYM. In PLO8, even premiums (AA23ds, A234ds etc) are never going to have that kind of advantage over an opponent with 4 random cards. Idk how much equity Ac 6c 5c 8d has vs Tikay's any 4 that he has to call with, but if it's anything more than 55%, I'll be shocked. We're going to be haemorrhaging money shoving this particular hand, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're haemorrhaging money with any 4 cards by doing anything besides folding. Cliffs: It's a trivial fold because of ICM in DYMs, combined with how equities in PLO8 are much closer than in other Poker variants. The value of our stack isn't linear in the same way that it would be at a cash table. Scooping, while useful, doesn't make an enormous difference to us, whereas getting scooped against is a disaster. Similarly, getting quartered is far worse for us than winning 3/4s is beneficial to us.
    Posted by EvilPingu

    ^^^^^^^ THIS is why we missed you! 

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