In Response to Re: Is There Money To Be Had? : Unless you are somehow a mind reader or something then there is no way to prove your claim, so not sure why you are stating that as a fact? (I've already given the factors that support my view in the post previous, so no need to post them again - if you want to point out which of these factors isn't true that's fine, but please support your view with actual facts not speculation). Posted by swanstu
I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make? People play poker for a multitude of reasons. I'm guessing the 2 biggest reasons are enjoyment factor and to make money. Now the people who play poker profitably over a decent sample are the minority; there are way more losers than winners.
So using that as a benchmark we can make solid assumptions that many people play poker primarily as a source of entertainment. I personally know many people on here, other sites and real life who don't care for the money but just wanna enjoy themselves, win or lose.
Numerous people have pointed this out to you, amongst them some wise old heads with years of experience in the industry. Perhaps take what they say on board instead of thinking you know best all the time. You do this in every thread and end up looking silly.
I think it was Marky gave a good example. His Dad plays and has a few beers while he plays. I think there are lots who do the same. Ideally people would like to win but they just enjoy the game while having a few beers or watching tv or chatting in chat box. If these players were determined to win they wouldnt do these things and they would spend time trying to improve. However they are fine enjoying what they do and how they do it and it gives them enjoyment for their £.
I know swanstu is struggling to understand this concept but it really is very simple; there will be plenty of players who sit down to play poker and their primary reason for doing so is to enjoy themselves.
Think we may be discussing at cross purposes - my point is that it's never solely for fun, and that at the heart of it all players want to become winning players, not that there is no element of fun - of course!
If I played poker to make money I'd give up tomorrow.
I could make more money (or in reality lose less) by playing lower stakes games. However I enjoy the challenge of playing the "better" players on the site in the higher stake games and feel like I learn more from doing so.
Think we may be discussing at cross purposes - my point is that it's never solely for fun, and that at the heart of it all players want to become winning players, not that there is no element of fun - of course! Posted by swanstu
And this is where you're wrong. I know you don't want to believe it but some players won't give any thought to the monetary side of the game.
I accept the point that some players may have entertainment as a key motivation, and that even pro winning players may also enjoy the game. Fun can be part of poker, of course.
What I wouldn't accept is that any real money players have absolutely no interest in the money and/or becoming a winning player. I just don't buy it, why would they get interested in such a money oriented activity if that's true. The game is based around money (real play at least), as well as any other aspects. Like horse racing.
Think we may be discussing at cross purposes - my point is that it's never solely for fun, and that at the heart of it all players want to become winning players, not that there is no element of fun - of course! Posted by swanstu
Players may employ losing strategies like limping as they want to see a lot of pots. They may know its not the optimal way to play but they get more enjoyment by playing pots than by folding.
I accept the point that some players may have entertainment as a key motivation, and that even pro winning players may also enjoy the game. Fun can be part of poker, of course. What I wouldn't accept is that any real money players have absolutely no interest in the money and/or becoming a winning player. I just don't buy it, why would they get interested in such a money oriented activity if that's true. The game is based around money (real play at least), as well as any other aspects. Like horse racing. Posted by swanstu
I play poker for enjoyment pure and simple swanstu.
For example I much prefer to play with fellow poker enthusiasts and have a chat in the chat box - both of which are -EV if I am looking to make money. (To make money table selection and not chatting are generally a good idea).
I play poker for enjoyment pure and simple swanstu. For example I much prefer to play with fellow poker enthusiasts and have a chat in the chat box - both of which are -EV if I am looking to make money. (To make money table selection and not chatting are generally a good idea). Posted by Phantom66
Aren't you a winning player? Strange example if that's true, lol
In Response to Re: Is There Money To Be Had? : They enjoy a money related activity yes. Simplified back Posted by swanstu
You have first hand examples in the thread of people who primarily play for fun. There are many many more people of a similar nature. For some, the money aspect isn't of any relevance. You only need to look at some people's scopes to see they have no interest in being a winning player. Some people just wanna play a few games of poker and enjoy themselves. Read those words back, slowly if it helps, then read them again. Maybe a third time if it helps to sink in. There we go.
In Response to Re: Is There Money To Be Had? : Players may employ losing strategies like limping as they want to see a lot of pots. They may know its not the optimal way to play but they get more enjoyment by playing pots than by folding. Posted by MattBates
I even know some players who gets more enjoyment from folding.
Being a losing player doesn't mean you have no financial interest in the game - just that you are a bad failing player. Players get addicted etc, so not following from being a losing player.
Anyway, this debate seems somewhat OT and gone much wider than when I made it as an issue initially - The point was initially raised in relation to the fact that many players may have thoughts about playing for more serious income - you've tried to prove that some players have utterly no interest in the money, we don't agree, but even if you were right for 'some' players, there'd still be a key issue that many players are interested in making money (winning or losing) and therefore this relates back to the OP for that reason.
Just trying to note why we got into this part of the discussion, lol. Whether your view is right that some players only play for fun, or not, there's still an important psychological point about how playing (seeing money etc) affects your view of the game (and how you fit it in life) for many many players.
In Response to Re: Is There Money To Be Had? : Aren't you a winning player? Strange example if that's true, lol Posted by swanstu
I think it is a perfectly good example.
For the sake of this discussion let's assume that my sharkscope stats are correct.
I have made £444 so I am a "winning player" and I have played 4020 games.
I also play on average 4 games per day that I play.
Making 44p per day playing poker should tell you that making money is not a huge motivation for me.
Sometimes I have set myself bankroll related challenges, they might help me focus better on my game but I find I enjoy my play alot less if trying to win £X in £Y weeks or achieve a ROI of Z%.
My favourite game is 6max NL but they just don't run enough, if I wanted to make more money I would play elsewhere, instead I have tried to adapt and enjoyed learning new formats.
If I wanted to try and bink a life changing sum of money I would play elsewhere.
I enjoy playing here, we have the forum where we can connect with fellow poker enthusiasts. A good example was the banter when the PLO8 DYMs were running consistently (pre-Tikay's health scare).
To further illustrate my example, I could look in a lobby and see a £3.30 PLO8 DYM with 5 seats taken containing say Tikay, Markycash, geradirl, eon1961, Macacgirl1.
If I was playing for money I would swerve that table as I know it is -EV, however I would insta reg for it as I would get a real test of poker ability and more importantly plenty of good natured banter in the chat box.
Comments
I could make more money (or in reality lose less) by playing lower stakes games. However I enjoy the challenge of playing the "better" players on the site in the higher stake games and feel like I learn more from doing so.