Haha just realised who you are! I was playing some £5.5 tournament yesterday and saw that there was someone competent next to me so decided to treat it as practice for upping late stage aggression. Just went mental on you every hand! Think you adjusted well after a bit by limp/raising and open jamming
Hi guys, been breakeven in MTTs for the past few weeks. Only like 100 or so games but because I'm only really playing Sundays it feels like a long time! Managed to have a breakeven UKOPS too which is a much better result than my last UKOPS
Been playing more cash where I can, which has been going pretty well, and helping my postflop decisions in MTTs too.
One thing I'm struggling with though, and would appreciate any thoughts on, is this:
In MTTs my flop plan as preflop aggressor used to be to cbet an absolute tonne but avoiding certain dynamic textures etc, and a lot of the time that worked and I don't think people exploit you enough for doing it.
In cash, that plan is pretty terrible I think and so I've had to use much a much more balanced and protected style. Doing that when I come back to MTTs works pretty well against the good players but there are so many spots where in cash it's an obvious check back, but in MTTs you know a cbet is going to work so so often on certain flops or against certain fit or fold players.
No real Sunday sweats to report. Couple more weeks of Sunday-only MTTs and then should be able to increase my volume a tonne which will be fun and much less painful than current situ!!
Not really a downswing, but going to skip the 110 next week and if have another bad sesh next week will maybe cut the two 55s for a week or two. They're my favourite games and I love the structure but only playing on Sundays, over half of my buy-ins for the day (and therefore the week) go into three games which is pretty sick! Love Sundays on Sky, but just doing Sundays is quite expensive
Came 9th in the 33bh last night. Fun graph for you:
This is all my 33bh games since I started playing on Sky in January. 36% ROI seems reasonable... but... this includes 9 final two table finishes and a whopping ZERO final tables!! One day Maybe I just suck at pre-final table play! In other games I tend to go into this stage with a lot of chips and go after people and try punish people who are trying to fold onto the ft, but in these it never seems to be the case. Kind of casually stroll in with an average or below stack, lose a flip to a short stack for a bounty then lose another flip and gg. Who knows, relatively it's still a tiny sample size, but 9 top twelve finishes and no top 6 finishes does sound bad Will try to improve!
Hi guys, been breakeven in MTTs for the past few weeks. Only like 100 or so games but because I'm only really playing Sundays it feels like a long time! Managed to have a breakeven UKOPS too which is a much better result than my last UKOPS
Been playing more cash where I can, which has been going pretty well, and helping my postflop decisions in MTTs too.
One thing I'm struggling with though, and would appreciate any thoughts on, is this:
In MTTs my flop plan as preflop aggressor used to be to cbet an absolute tonne but avoiding certain dynamic textures etc, and a lot of the time that worked and I don't think people exploit you enough for doing it.
In cash, that plan is pretty terrible I think and so I've had to use much a much more balanced and protected style. Doing that when I come back to MTTs works pretty well against the good players but there are so many spots where in cash it's an obvious check back, but in MTTs you know a cbet is going to work so so often on certain flops or against certain fit or fold players.
So I'm a bit confused Any/all thoughts welcome!
Interesting post this.
I've been profitably playing cash games for years now but have only very recently started dipping my toes in the MTT waters. You are of course spot on when saying that a balanced and protected approach to flop cbetting in cash games is the way to go and, coming from that background, this has also been my approach in the MTT's I've played so far (still a far too small a sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions from though).
In a few of these tourneys I've found myself sharing a table with one of Sky's most renowned MTT mega crushers and so was paying particularly close attention to his game. Said crusher seemed to take the relentless cbetting with the entirety of his range approach (seemingly regardless of whether in a pot with a competent reg or big drooling fish), which really threw me somewhat - it runs counter to so much of what I've learnt over the years to be profitable in cash games. However, his results are undeniably stellar so I'm really rather discombobulated at this point. Cbetting at such a high frequency should in theory be so exploitable by any decent thinking opponent, whilst also being a great way to set money/chips on fire versus bad recs who can't fold bottom pair reagrdless of the action/flop before them. The reality may be somewhat different though.
Sorry there's not much by way of a contribution here but, as a tourney newbie, I'm certainly sharing your confusion!
Getting some cash game experience will for sure help your MTT game, especially the early stages of an MTT when stacks are pretty deep.
Whilst in MTTs you want to be using smaller bet sizing's, in cash games you want to be using larger sizing's on most streets, most often 3/4 pot if not larger.
Hey Duesenberg, thanks for commenting. Been thinking a lot about this point recently. Could write an essay, but won't as thread is already too full of my long-winded drivel! Can pm you if you want.
Basically, the high freq cbet style you're talking about isn't the balanced unexploitable approach to take (in fact it's far from it) and in some super high roller it's going to get torn apart. But in the tournaments we're playing, taking a balanced approach is also going to burn money as it's not the highest ev line. Most people won't notice that cbet freq is too high. And those who do can find better safer spots than playing back at it (not saying they should). Also with icm and stack sizes it's going to be more effective than in cash games anyway for a number of reasons. Interesting stuff though!
Getting some cash game experience will for sure help your MTT game, especially the early stages of an MTT when stacks are pretty deep.
Whilst in MTTs you want to be using smaller bet sizing's, in cash games you want to be using larger sizing's on most streets, most often 3/4 pot if not larger.
Also this. Need to risk fewer chips to gain leverage in tournaments
Lol internet connection playing up and keep disconnecting - been able to play about 1 in 10 hands so far - watching myself fold auto-fold Aces several times over is fun
Obviously ended up being one of the more disastrous sessions I've had, which is a shame because I put in a tonne of work away from the tables this week. Not to worry - always next week!
Most of my tournaments were gone or decimated by the time I reconnected properly so I played the 10pm £22bh for the first time. Started off reasonably, accumulated a lot of chips mostly by making 7x pot river shoves with the nuts against players who can't fold top pair. Was chip leading for a fair while then some fishy player got moved to my left.
Don't want to offend anyone so I'll disguise his name cryptically and refer to him only as 'Batt Mates'. He started off by min3betting me when I opened utg. He said it was a misclick but clearly he's an inexperienced player who hasn't played many tournaments before.
In the meantime an absolutely ludicrous hand went down with another player (will post below), which left me with something like 3bb - can't remember for sure. Anyway, straight after this I went on insane run of getting dealt a premium hand every hand, and this Batt Mates fellow just kept paying me off every single hand - got like 17 double ups from him in a row! Not sure why he kept calling me with his A9o type hands - maybe he doesn't understand the rules. I mean I went ALL IN so I'm obviously going to have a really strong hand right. What a noob.
Sorry (ish) about the KK v AA hand. I did say it smelt like aces in chat box after your turn shove, but by that stage I was pot stuck and had to go with it. You will be pleased to know that lady variance leveled it up later after my QQ was done by rag any ace will do.
GL in your quest....I am sure you will conquer it.......eventually
Glad you have got a handle on that Batt Mates player. All luck, no skill. Him and his other two cronies......Chickenburgernchips & Beammeupscotty play with a different pack of cards to everyone else on here. There is at least a 5 min delay (some say lag, but others know the truth) when the RNG needs to sort out the river card for them. There was only a 2 1/2 min delay when it had to find my K in the hand above though....
Haha yeah as soon as you said that I was thinking, if he turns up with a set of Queens now that is a savage comment! No offence intended towards you in posting the hand, you obvs played it fine - not sure how to hide player names from hand histories on the new forum?
Ha I'd rather you had gone on to put my chips to good use at least!
Hey guys, not updated in a while as haven't played too much. But in the meantime I have been working an absolute tonne on my game where I can (Christmas is busiest time of the year for me work-wise) which hopefully will pay off over the next few weeks when I'll be able to play loads!
Been in a downswing for maybe the past month, but since working on my game and just how I approach things I have started to see some improvement. Played a sesh last weekend and shipped the new £5.5r bounty hunter thing which was nice. Last night gf went to bed early so played a small sesh and managed to ship the Mini so hopefully this is the light at the end of the downswing tunnel!
As well as all the usual range building and exploitative vs balanced work I've been doing, one of the main things that has helped is not trying to overcomplicate things. As an example, if you know a player is sticky and is never folding his Ace highs on the river, past me would say 'population under-bluffs this river, he's too far down in his range to call to x sizing against my range, balanced approach would be to bet this river at x frequency so let's go!!!!!' (and then losing). Recently I've just been less stubborn and let them have it - has saved me a lot of chips and frustration!
So been messing around with filters on Sharkscope and come up with a couple of funny graphs:
First one is turbo rebuys this year
And this is all my 110s this year...
First graph is silly and I get one of those shark symbols on sharkscope next to it lol. Completely unsustainable and probably down to rungood.
Second graph... well... sample size is ridiculously small so wouldn't really take much from it but it's still kind of scary to see! It does include all the spots I've moaned about in this thread like bubbling with the nuts on the turn for chip lead pot etc, but even so... kind of eye opening.
One thing I will say is 6 months ago I was not working on my game one bit, and if I had just sun run 110s and won a tonne of money that would not have motivated me to put the work in. Looking back at how I played 6 months ago (or even one month ago AND still got a long way to go) a lot of the plays I would call 'standard' I've come to see were actually losing plays.
As I say, long way to go and a lot of improvements to make/leaks to plug, but looking forward to 2018 - maybe one day will get that 4 figure score!
Hey guys, not updated in a while as haven't played too much. But in the meantime I have been working an absolute tonne on my game where I can (Christmas is busiest time of the year for me work-wise) which hopefully will pay off over the next few weeks when I'll be able to play loads!
Been in a downswing for maybe the past month, but since working on my game and just how I approach things I have started to see some improvement. Played a sesh last weekend and shipped the new £5.5r bounty hunter thing which was nice. Last night gf went to bed early so played a small sesh and managed to ship the Mini so hopefully this is the light at the end of the downswing tunnel!
As well as all the usual range building and exploitative vs balanced work I've been doing, one of the main things that has helped is not trying to overcomplicate things. As an example, if you know a player is sticky and is never folding his Ace highs on the river, past me would say 'population under-bluffs this river, he's too far down in his range to call to x sizing against my range, balanced approach would be to bet this river at x frequency so let's go!!!!!' (and then losing). Recently I've just been less stubborn and let them have it - has saved me a lot of chips and frustration!
Super excited for upcoming UKOPS
Will post a couple of lol graphs below...
Hi Angmar,
Have been a silent follower of this thread for a while. Pleased to see that your hard work away from the tables seems to be paying off.
With regard to the highlighted sentence, where is the best place to find the best information. Is it something that is easily accessible for free, or do you pay for a training site?
All the best and keep up the good work. I'm sure your 4 figure score is just around the corner.
Hey guys, not updated in a while as haven't played too much. But in the meantime I have been working an absolute tonne on my game where I can (Christmas is busiest time of the year for me work-wise) which hopefully will pay off over the next few weeks when I'll be able to play loads!
Been in a downswing for maybe the past month, but since working on my game and just how I approach things I have started to see some improvement. Played a sesh last weekend and shipped the new £5.5r bounty hunter thing which was nice. Last night gf went to bed early so played a small sesh and managed to ship the Mini so hopefully this is the light at the end of the downswing tunnel!
As well as all the usual range building and exploitative vs balanced work I've been doing, one of the main things that has helped is not trying to overcomplicate things. As an example, if you know a player is sticky and is never folding his Ace highs on the river, past me would say 'population under-bluffs this river, he's too far down in his range to call to x sizing against my range, balanced approach would be to bet this river at x frequency so let's go!!!!!' (and then losing). Recently I've just been less stubborn and let them have it - has saved me a lot of chips and frustration!
Super excited for upcoming UKOPS
Will post a couple of lol graphs below...
Hi Angmar,
Have been a silent follower of this thread for a while. Pleased to see that your hard work away from the tables seems to be paying off.
With regard to the highlighted sentence, where is the best place to find the best information. Is it something that is easily accessible for free, or do you pay for a training site?
All the best and keep up the good work. I'm sure your 4 figure score is just around the corner.
Ryan
Hi mate,
So I like to use a good old excel spreadsheet but the links StayOrGo posted for you would be a far less painful method
Always happy to talk about strategy/hands, though there are many many better players than me here!
Yeah, I have found the Push/Fold charts particularly useful. It's not something I'd really looked into before (bad I know) and it certainly helps with knowing when to shove/call at the latter stages of a tournament.
Comments
Been playing more cash where I can, which has been going pretty well, and helping my postflop decisions in MTTs too.
One thing I'm struggling with though, and would appreciate any thoughts on, is this:
In MTTs my flop plan as preflop aggressor used to be to cbet an absolute tonne but avoiding certain dynamic textures etc, and a lot of the time that worked and I don't think people exploit you enough for doing it.
In cash, that plan is pretty terrible I think and so I've had to use much a much more balanced and protected style. Doing that when I come back to MTTs works pretty well against the good players but there are so many spots where in cash it's an obvious check back, but in MTTs you know a cbet is going to work so so often on certain flops or against certain fit or fold players.
So I'm a bit confused
No real Sunday sweats to report. Couple more weeks of Sunday-only MTTs and then should be able to increase my volume a tonne which will be fun and much less painful than current situ!!
Not really a downswing, but going to skip the 110 next week and if have another bad sesh next week will maybe cut the two 55s for a week or two. They're my favourite games and I love the structure but only playing on Sundays, over half of my buy-ins for the day (and therefore the week) go into three games which is pretty sick! Love Sundays on Sky, but just doing Sundays is quite expensive
Came 9th in the 33bh last night. Fun graph for you:
This is all my 33bh games since I started playing on Sky in January. 36% ROI seems reasonable... but... this includes 9 final two table finishes and a whopping ZERO final tables!! One day
I've been profitably playing cash games for years now but have only very recently started dipping my toes in the MTT waters. You are of course spot on when saying that a balanced and protected approach to flop cbetting in cash games is the way to go and, coming from that background, this has also been my approach in the MTT's I've played so far (still a far too small a sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions from though).
In a few of these tourneys I've found myself sharing a table with one of Sky's most renowned MTT mega crushers and so was paying particularly close attention to his game. Said crusher seemed to take the relentless cbetting with the entirety of his range approach (seemingly regardless of whether in a pot with a competent reg or big drooling fish), which really threw me somewhat - it runs counter to so much of what I've learnt over the years to be profitable in cash games. However, his results are undeniably stellar so I'm really rather discombobulated at this point. Cbetting at such a high frequency should in theory be so exploitable by any decent thinking opponent, whilst also being a great way to set money/chips on fire versus bad recs who can't fold bottom pair reagrdless of the action/flop before them. The reality may be somewhat different though.
Sorry there's not much by way of a contribution here but, as a tourney newbie, I'm certainly sharing your confusion!
Whilst in MTTs you want to be using smaller bet sizing's, in cash games you want to be using larger sizing's on most streets, most often 3/4 pot if not larger.
Basically, the high freq cbet style you're talking about isn't the balanced unexploitable approach to take (in fact it's far from it) and in some super high roller it's going to get torn apart. But in the tournaments we're playing, taking a balanced approach is also going to burn money as it's not the highest ev line. Most people won't notice that cbet freq is too high. And those who do can find better safer spots than playing back at it (not saying they should). Also with icm and stack sizes it's going to be more effective than in cash games anyway for a number of reasons. Interesting stuff though!
Right! Can actually only get better from here!!
Most of my tournaments were gone or decimated by the time I reconnected properly so I played the 10pm £22bh for the first time. Started off reasonably, accumulated a lot of chips mostly by making 7x pot river shoves with the nuts against players who can't fold top pair. Was chip leading for a fair while then some fishy player got moved to my left.
Don't want to offend anyone so I'll disguise his name cryptically and refer to him only as 'Batt Mates'. He started off by min3betting me when I opened utg. He said it was a misclick but clearly he's an inexperienced player who hasn't played many tournaments before.
In the meantime an absolutely ludicrous hand went down with another player (will post below), which left me with something like 3bb - can't remember for sure. Anyway, straight after this I went on insane run of getting dealt a premium hand every hand, and this Batt Mates fellow just kept paying me off every single hand - got like 17 double ups from him in a row! Not sure why he kept calling me with his A9o type hands - maybe he doesn't understand the rules. I mean I went ALL IN so I'm obviously going to have a really strong hand right. What a noob.
@MattBates
Ha, good write up Ang, well done.
Good to see Batt Mates exposed at last.
GL in your quest....I am sure you will conquer it.......eventually
Glad you have got a handle on that Batt Mates player. All luck, no skill. Him and his other two cronies......Chickenburgernchips & Beammeupscotty play with a different pack of cards to everyone else on here. There is at least a 5 min delay (some say lag, but others know the truth) when the RNG needs to sort out the river card for them. There was only a 2 1/2 min delay when it had to find my K in the hand above though....
Ha I'd rather you had gone on to put my chips to good use at least!
Been in a downswing for maybe the past month, but since working on my game and just how I approach things I have started to see some improvement. Played a sesh last weekend and shipped the new £5.5r bounty hunter thing which was nice. Last night gf went to bed early so played a small sesh and managed to ship the Mini so hopefully this is the light at the end of the downswing tunnel!
As well as all the usual range building and exploitative vs balanced work I've been doing, one of the main things that has helped is not trying to overcomplicate things. As an example, if you know a player is sticky and is never folding his Ace highs on the river, past me would say 'population under-bluffs this river, he's too far down in his range to call to x sizing against my range, balanced approach would be to bet this river at x frequency so let's go!!!!!' (and then losing). Recently I've just been less stubborn and let them have it - has saved me a lot of chips and frustration!
Super excited for upcoming UKOPS
Will post a couple of lol graphs below...
First one is turbo rebuys this year
And this is all my 110s this year...
First graph is silly and I get one of those shark symbols on sharkscope next to it lol. Completely unsustainable and probably down to rungood.
Second graph... well... sample size is ridiculously small so wouldn't really take much from it but it's still kind of scary to see! It does include all the spots I've moaned about in this thread like bubbling with the nuts on the turn for chip lead pot etc, but even so... kind of eye opening.
One thing I will say is 6 months ago I was not working on my game one bit, and if I had just sun run 110s and won a tonne of money that would not have motivated me to put the work in. Looking back at how I played 6 months ago (or even one month ago AND still got a long way to go) a lot of the plays I would call 'standard' I've come to see were actually losing plays.
As I say, long way to go and a lot of improvements to make/leaks to plug, but looking forward to 2018 - maybe one day will get that 4 figure score!
Have been a silent follower of this thread for a while. Pleased to see that your hard work away from the tables seems to be paying off.
With regard to the highlighted sentence, where is the best place to find the best information. Is it something that is easily accessible for free, or do you pay for a training site?
All the best and keep up the good work. I'm sure your 4 figure score is just around the corner.
Ryan
So I like to use a good old excel spreadsheet but the links StayOrGo posted for you would be a far less painful method
Always happy to talk about strategy/hands, though there are many many better players than me here!
Good to see your hard work paying off, @Angmar2626
I'd not worry too much about that ugly £110 graph, sample size makes it meaningless really.
I'm sure your hard work will be rewarded soon.
"....(Christmas is busiest time of the year for me work-wise)...."
Without giving away anything too personal if you don't wish to, what line of work are you in? You're not a Reindeer are you?