Oh well , if Billy Bragg posted a poll , it must be accurate . Seriously , where does this nonsense poll originate from ? how many people contributed ? when was it taken ? cross referencing ? ...etc etc More remainer nonsense . And as an aside , using words that most people have never heard of like " obduracy " doesn't add to the validity of a post in the slightest .
On reflection , I think my post was unnecessarily abrupt and appreciate that it could be considered to be rude . So @Tikay10 you have my apologies if you viewed it in this way .
If you went back over your previous posts, we will end up with more half hearted apologies on here, than Brexit Party rally posts.
I know that's intended in humour Tony, but we declared a truce yesterday & so let's move on.
I'd love to move on , but it's relentless. Perhaps that truce could also apply to Haysie posting inflammatory /deliberately argumentative stuff on my thread as well . It's quite telling that whilst he was off my thread yesterday some interesting reasoned debating took place ...as soon as he makes an appearance , his intent is to turn it into a childish playground.
Hey @dobiesdraw ...we may not agree on many things but as one of the people who commented on your post to TK , I recognise and appreciated your reflection and post therefore to use TK’s vernacular, a truce seems an appropriate reset point....
However some of the inflammatory and deliberately argumentative posts-with respect to each each other at all times, and yes I’m guilty as charged at times- are what makes these posts interesting to read ! Healthy debate and disagreement are what makes forum debates worthwhile!
I’m sure TK/Sky monitor and comment appropriately when they perceive boundaries are crossed...
Fair comments , but the point remains ...without his input on my thread yesterday , it was almost civil .
I was watching Newsnight last night, and Iain Dale suggested as a last resort Theresa May might bring back the Withdrawal Bill, as a confidence vote, and thereby compel the ERG, and DUP, to vote for it, or collapse the Government and force a General Election.
The clock is ticking.
sssh ...we are talking about more important things ....everyones sick to death of brexit .
Oh well , if Billy Bragg posted a poll , it must be accurate . Seriously , where does this nonsense poll originate from ? how many people contributed ? when was it taken ? cross referencing ? ...etc etc More remainer nonsense . And as an aside , using words that most people have never heard of like " obduracy " doesn't add to the validity of a post in the slightest .
On reflection , I think my post was unnecessarily abrupt and appreciate that it could be considered to be rude . So @Tikay10 you have my apologies if you viewed it in this way .
If you went back over your previous posts, we will end up with more half hearted apologies on here, than Brexit Party rally posts.
I know that's intended in humour Tony, but we declared a truce yesterday & so let's move on.
I'd love to move on , but it's relentless. Perhaps that truce could also apply to Haysie posting inflammatory /deliberately argumentative stuff on my thread as well . It's quite telling that whilst he was off my thread yesterday some interesting reasoned debating took place ...as soon as he makes an appearance , his intent is to turn it into a childish playground.
Hey @dobiesdraw ...we may not agree on many things but as one of the people who commented on your post to TK , I recognise and appreciated your reflection and post therefore to use TK’s vernacular, a truce seems an appropriate reset point....
However some of the inflammatory and deliberately argumentative posts-with respect to each each other at all times, and yes I’m guilty as charged at times- are what makes these posts interesting to read ! Healthy debate and disagreement are what makes forum debates worthwhile!
I’m sure TK/Sky monitor and comment appropriately when they perceive boundaries are crossed...
Fair comments , but the point remains ...without his input on my thread yesterday , it was almost civil .
I posted on there 26 times yesterday.
26 times too much
I was just pointing out that what you said was clearly not true.
Oh well , if Billy Bragg posted a poll , it must be accurate . Seriously , where does this nonsense poll originate from ? how many people contributed ? when was it taken ? cross referencing ? ...etc etc More remainer nonsense . And as an aside , using words that most people have never heard of like " obduracy " doesn't add to the validity of a post in the slightest .
On reflection , I think my post was unnecessarily abrupt and appreciate that it could be considered to be rude . So @Tikay10 you have my apologies if you viewed it in this way .
If you went back over your previous posts, we will end up with more half hearted apologies on here, than Brexit Party rally posts.
I know that's intended in humour Tony, but we declared a truce yesterday & so let's move on.
I'd love to move on , but it's relentless. Perhaps that truce could also apply to Haysie posting inflammatory /deliberately argumentative stuff on my thread as well . It's quite telling that whilst he was off my thread yesterday some interesting reasoned debating took place ...as soon as he makes an appearance , his intent is to turn it into a childish playground.
Hey @dobiesdraw ...we may not agree on many things but as one of the people who commented on your post to TK , I recognise and appreciated your reflection and post therefore to use TK’s vernacular, a truce seems an appropriate reset point....
However some of the inflammatory and deliberately argumentative posts-with respect to each each other at all times, and yes I’m guilty as charged at times- are what makes these posts interesting to read ! Healthy debate and disagreement are what makes forum debates worthwhile!
I’m sure TK/Sky monitor and comment appropriately when they perceive boundaries are crossed...
Fair comments , but the point remains ...without his input on my thread yesterday , it was almost civil .
I posted on there 26 times yesterday.
26 times too much
I was just pointing out that what you said was clearly not true.
Is there any phrase or comment , that you don't take literally ? On the scale of things , through the afternoon , you stayed away ..prob had a village hall remainers meeting or something . During a relatively peaceful , Haysie free afternoon , fairly civilised conversation ensued .
I'm in stitches you would take the time to count the number of posts you made ...seriously made my day
Brexit: May reveals plan for Commons vote on key legislation after late-night talks with Corbyn
Theresa May has vowed to bring forward key Brexit legislation for a Commons vote in the first week of June in what could be her last move as prime minister. After a face-to-face meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, the prime minister said the cross-party talks with Labour to find a solution to the deadlock at Westminster will continue - despite both sides being downbeat about any resolution being found. It came as the cabinet set a summer deadline for the UK to finally leave the European Union, after an extended meeting on Tuesday lasting over two hours at Downing Street. Ministers agreed it was "imperative" to pass legislation ratifying Brexit before parliament rises for the summer break in July, and decided not to terminate the talks with Labour, which are now in their seventh week. Following discussions with the Labour leader, a Downing Street spokesman said: 'This evening the prime minister met the leader of the opposition in the House of Commons to make clear our determination to bring the talks to a conclusion and deliver on the referendum result to leave the EU."
"We will therefore be bringing forward the Withdrawal Agreement Bill in the week beginning the 3rd June," they added. The spokesman also described the ongoing talks, which entered their seventh week on Monday, as "useful and constructive", adding further discussions will take place on Wednesday "as we seek the stable majority in parliament that will ensure the safe passage of the withdrawal agreement bill and the UK's swift exit from the EU". Foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt also used a speech shortly after the cabinet meeting to warn that both the Conservative and Labour Party would be "crucified" by voters if they failed to respect the 2016 referendum result. Referring to the cross-party talks, he told the Wall Street Journal CEO Council conference in London: "There is potential because when you look at the fundamentals it is actually in both parties' interests to resolve Brexit.
"Because both of us will be crucified by our base if we went into a general election having promised that we would respect the referendum result, not having respected it. "And I think the lesson at the local elections is that the downside for Labour is as big as the downside for us. I don't think it's impossible that there could be a deal there." But their was little enthusiasm in Brussels regarding any developments in Westminster, as a spokesperson for the EU commission said leaders of the 27 member states are on a "Brexit break"They said the EU would only turn its attention to Brexit again "if there is something happening in London", as the UK's chief negotiator in the civil service, Olly Robbins, was expected to travel to the Belgian capital on Wednesday to discuss the future UK-EU relationship, post-Brexit.
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor and close ally of the Labour leader, earlier claimed there had been no "significant shift" from the government. "And, let's be absolutely straight, today hasn't helped," he said. On the prospect of a new Conservative leader tearing up any agreement that is reached, he added: "Our big problem now is, if we are going to march our troops in parliament to the top of the hill for a deal and then that's overturned within weeks, I think that would be a cataclysmic act of bad faith
Brexit vote Downing Street's announcement that the EU Withdrawal Agreement Bill is to be brought to the Commons next month is widely reported. "The Fourth Vote Awakens", the Huffpost UK website declares. The Sun says Theresa May will face a June D-Day. For the Times, it will be a moment of truth for the prime minister and her Brexit deal. The Telegraph says Mrs May has tried to delay her resignation for almost three months by telling ministers she can get a deal done if she's allowed to stay in Number 10 until the end of July. The announcement comes as a surprise to some. The Politico website says that with nothing yet agreed in the talks with Labour, and large factions in both main parties implacably opposed to the Brexit deal, it remains unclear how Mrs May hopes to win a Commons majority.
The LabourList website thinks that relying on either Conservative or Labour votes in the Commons is unlikely to produce a positive outcome for her. The Sun reports that the prime minister came under heavy pressure from her "frustrated" cabinet to bring the bill forward. The Politics Home website says she will hope the move will be enough to satisfy Tory MPs demanding that she sets out a timetable for her departure from Number 10. The Guardian says Mrs May hopes the bill will help to fend off calls for an imminent no-confidence vote from her backbenchers.
The Times leads with a warning by the leader of Britain's police chiefs to Theresa May that anti-terrorist operations would be hampered if she bows to pressure to create an official definition of Islamophobia. The paper says the adoption of the definition could in effect make it racist to criticise Islam or "Muslimness". In a letter to the Prime Minister seen by the Times, Martin Hewitt - chairman of the National Police Chiefs' Council - says the definition poses a threat to terror laws, stop-and-search at ports and the outlawing of terrorist groups.
Nigel Farage forced to admit claim about black people in Oldham was false But the Brexit Party leader immediately made another false claim about "Asian" people in the town
Nigel Farage has rowed back on a claim he made about black people in Oldham. But he immediately made another false claim about "Asian" people in the town, complaining that he was getting "caught up in terminology."
The Brexit Party leader was branded "dangerous" after falsely claiming there was a street in Oldham where one side was populated by black people and the other entirely by white people. No such street exists.
And today, Farage was forced into an embarrassing on-air climbdown over the claim. He told LBC's Nick Ferrari he had got the figure from late BBC journalist Charles Wheeler.
He said: "[Wheeler] said what a tragedy it was that, almost like Northern Ireland had been, where you have divided communities on religion, you have Asian areas and white areas in Oldham. "And I'm sorry to say..." Mr Ferrari interrupted, asking if he said "Asian areas or black areas?"
Farage said: "Well, we all get caught up in this terminology. What's allowed one day is not allowed the next day. "But they are Asian areas. They can call that black or whatever you need to call it. "But here's the point. Even today in 2019, you've got one ward in Oldham that is 97% white, and the next door ward, which is 66%..." This claim is also false. According to the most recent census data, there is one ward in Oldham - St Mary's - which is 66% "non white" - which includes all ethnicities other than white. However none of its neighbouring wards are 97% white.
Asked what he would to resolve the nonexistent situation, Farage said: "Part of that is about a responsible immigration policy. Having numbers coming in...and we've got a devil of a job to do with a job that already exists." He went on: "I do not want to live in a country where we have people divided and separated out."
The interview came almost five years to the day after Mr Farage said he would be "concerned" if a group of Romanian people moved in next door to him. In an interview with LBC Radio, he said: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be." In a statement after the interview he added: "Any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door."
Later in today's interview, he said he would never have a manifesto despite being attacked by one listener who complained his party - polling ahead of the Tories for next week's EU elections - has almost no policies. Other listeners accused him of "using immigration to whip up a frenzy" and told him: "You use the fears of ordinary people under the premise of a grand lie." Mr Farage snapped at another listener: "You clearly aren’t very good at listening, Carol."
The Brexit Party is shameless, secretive and insane - everything that's wrong with British politics Nigel wants to take back democracy, but does not offer to deliver it
Nigel Farage throws furious tantrum as BBC asks him about his views on NHS
The appeal of Nigel Farage is based upon the fact that he claims responsibility for Brexit. The price of him is that he has no intention of owning it. During the 2016 referendum, the official Vote Leave campaign noticed something termed 'The Farage Effect'. Every time he appeared in public, Leave dipped in the polls. He now claims to be leading a massive surge to Leave, even though Remain has been clearly ahead since 2017. What Nigel says, and what exists, does not tally. He's either a one-man Brexit machine, or a liability who does more to damage the cause than save it. But that suits Nigel just fine. He can play the messiah, and later wash his hands of whatever unfolds. It's surely a coincidence that the best way to slope off is on £78,000 a year for a bare minimum of 50 days in the office, with secret expenses and a gold-plated pension, and that's exactly the job he's trying to stay in.
It's much easier to get elected to the EU Parliament, which uses proportional representation in a place that's rarely televised or accurately reported, than it is to get into Westminster, where the country demands firmer democratic support and deeper scrutiny. It must be another coincidence that Nigel has managed the easy version 4 times, and failed the harder test on 7 occasions. And although the country is pinballing towards another general election, which will do more than anything else to decide how and if we Brexit at all, if Nigel gets his way he won't be expected to take part in it. Instead he plans to ensconce himself and his not-much-work ethic in the EU Parliament, where he'll not be asked to do anything much except flap his gums about the amazing success of the Brexit Party. And it IS amazing. Because the Brexit Party is everything he claims to be against.
Um, well, hang on, er…
He says he's a democrat, but its leader is unelected. He claims to be an anti-Establishment outsider, but believes a former City trader educated at a £40,000-a-year prep school can speak for the people. And he has decried, for decades, the opaque funding, hypocrisy and lies of mainstream politicians, when he relies on all of those things to keep his career afloat. Perhaps most of all he has benefited from a reputation as a plain speaker, while others have suffered from sounding too polished by comparison. Yet yesterday he blustered, flustered, avoided and evaded questions in what he called "the most ridiculous interview of my life". And remember, this is a man who's conducted interviews while dressed as a drunken Rupert the Bear.
Man of the people, my ****
The party he has now founded - after the last one he founded became so racist that Danny Baker wouldn't be racist enough to join it - has no plan for how to Brexit. Coming as it does after three years of chaos which has arisen precisely because there is no plan, it is a bold move to claim the Brexit Party would provide any answers. It's especially courageous considering that any MEPs it gains won't have anything to do with Brexit. It's the government's job to handle international treaties and trade deals. However much Nigel may ask to be included, it's an MEP's job to approve, amend or reject EU laws on things like toy safety, use of pesticides, and GM food labelling. Voting for Nigel to enforce Brexit is like voting for apples when you want to make a pear pie: fairly daft. Some say the Brexit Party will force us to leave without a deal. To those people, it should be pointed out that MEPs can't force the UK to do anything without Parliamentary approval, as the past 3 years have shown. And even if they could, they'd be restarting a war on the Northern Irish border on day one.
No war is better than a bad war, you tool
His party is shameless about the career politicians, low-skilled commentators and accumulated wingnuts who form its candidates. Communists, multi-millionaires, IRA sympathisers, bonkers cat ladies and those with Mogg DNA share a platform, and a complete lack of charm. It is secretive about its funding. Nigel has made claims about grass roots support and six-figure donations, but despite the fact the party is required to declare funds it will not do so before the EU elections. So far just one hedge funder has admitted donating, and there have been unsubstantiated claims about anonymous PayPal donations that could be made from, say, Russia. A party that is not open about who pays for it is corruption in utero. But the most damaging thing the Brexit Party does is demand to "take back democracy", while being as undemocratic as it is possible to be. It boasts thousands of "registered supporters", who each give £25 to the cause without earning a single right to vote on its policies, leadership or attend an annual conference.
HINT: He says "take" democracy, not "deliver"
And the democracy it wants is highly selective. English democracy, which overrides that of Northern Ireland where the vast majority of 1.8million UK citizens don't want a border, don't want to reunify with Ireland, and don't particularly want to Brexit. You may want to Brexit. You may believe, against all the evidence, that Nigel is a nice guy. But you have to be insane to vote for him. Members of the Conservative and Unionist Party who vote for him are voting to dissolve the union. Voters who want their democracy back will be removing it from others. Those who despise evasive, hypocritical, self-serving politicians in Westminster will be creating more of them in Strasbourg. Those who hate the EU will be voting to make it less accountable, less democratic, and less effective. And those who just want to get on with Brexit will find themselves further from it.
"It's ridiculous to ask me questions!"
Because Brexit requires a plan, not soundbites. If Nigel wins, soundbites is all you'll get. There's no manifesto because he's got nothing to write in it. The last thing he needs is a promise he'll have to keep. If he destroys the Tory party he was once a member of - or, to be fair, finishes off a bunch of old ladies who've been handbagging each other to death for years - you'll get a Corbyn government and a People's Vote and no Brexit at all. And, do you know, Nigel's not stupid. He knows all this. He's just not telling you where he's leading you. He's the Pied Piper of Fudgin' - come with me, don't count my expenses, don't ask me to work too hard, don't ask me to fix anything. At some point he'll almost certainly start talking about "the journey" like an X Factor contestant who accidentally scraped into the live shows.
You've never seen them in the same room, have you?
If the Brexit vote of 2016 was a protest, then so is a vote for the Brexit Party.
But it's a protest that will achieve nothing - no cleaner politics, no sleaze-free politicians, and no Brexit at all. It's a vote that says the EU doesn't matter, when the past 3 years have proven the opposite to all of us. Nigel wants to take back democracy, but he does not offer to deliver it. He wants to fight for Brexit, but is seeking election to a place where he will be beyond its reach, safe on a gravy train for another 5 years, another £390,000 in salary, and untold TV appearances. Twenty years after he was first elected, he is still refusing to accept responsibility for the consequences. If that appeals to you, it's not a politician you want; it's a doctor.
The referendum/confirmatory vote would provide a definitive solution and end it all.
The vote would be on the most popular deal, which would be decided by Parliament, remain, and no deal.
I would be flexible on whether no deal was on the ballot, as Parliament has already ruled it out.
There would be moans from some quarters if it wasn't on the ballot so lets say it would be.
So subsequent to the vote, its all over.
No wasted time, no huge costs.
Remain wins we carry on as normal.
No deal wins, we just leave, and prepare for the catastrophe.
The deal wins, we would move into a transition period while the details are finalised
You can suggest as many different types of deal as you want. None of them have a majority in Parliament, but the type of deal is irrelevant, it is a red herring, we cant talk about a deal until we pass the Withdrawal Bill, which currently isn't happening.
Less interested members of the public just appear to be saying to politicians, just get on with it. This is despite the importance of the outcome. I am sure that many of these people will just be glad to see the end, rather than participating in a Civil War, even if the end was a referendum/confirmatory vote.
The reason a Norway plus a customs union deal wouldnt get passed is because it involves freedom of movement, an annual contribution, and no independent trade policy.
To accept this would mean we should remain, as remaining means we have a say, but leaving with a Norway deal gives us no say, whilst accepting the rules. Norway plus a customs union, is all but remaining.
I could go on all day about this, but one last bit.
For those that go on about the will of the people. Everyone knows it was 52% against 48%.
The 48% knew exactly what they were voting for, but the leave voters didn't.
There are effectively 4 leave options which have some support in Parliament. There is no deal, Canada plus, Norway plus, and Theresa Mays deal.
Many leave voters are convinced that a leave vote only meant one particular option.
For example the ERG, and Nigel Farage, are now trying to convince the electorate that a leave vote only meant no deal. Despite the fact that this is not true.
Many of these people are adamant that a leave vote only meant their preferred solution.
Two of the options are for us to remain close to the EU on leaving, the other two options mean we would be further away.
So if we biased this in favour of the leave vote, lets just say there are only two options, otherwise we halve the figures, and make it look much worse from a leave perspective.
Two options, one remaining close to the EU, the other moving away.
The supporters of either of these two options will be fiercely against the other. A supporter of no deal hates Theresa Mays deal, and vice versa. A supporter of Canada, hates Norway, and vice versa.
So for the sake of argument lets say lets say half the 52% think that they voted for each solution. So 26% in favour of each. If we took the four solutions into account that would mean on 13% in favour of each one.
Nigel Farage is now saying that Brexit means no deal, despite all the evidence to the contrary during the referendum campaign.
A referendum/confirmatory vote actually ends it all.
How can you quote the will of the people when only 26% actually get what they believed they voted for.
We can only have one solution.
If we had a second referendum after leaving, on whether or not people feel they got what they voted for, around three quarters would say no. This figure would be as high as 87% if we took the four solutions into consideration.
. Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader said women with children were "worth less" than men in the financial sector. He claimed women with children were responsible for their own reduction in pay if they have children – because they take maternity leave and become less valuable to their businesses.
Nigel Farage has accused the BBC of not giving him enough coverage and everyone is pointing out the obvious
Nigel Farage had yet another memorable TV moment this morning when he threw a tantrum on The Andrew Marr Show after being asked about his most controversial views.
Trying to get some clarity on what Farage's Brexit Party actually stands for, Marr questioned him on some of his previous statements about his admiration for Putin, his desire to roll back gun controls in the UK, and banning people who are HIV positive from entering the country. In response, Farage went off on a bizarre rant about the BBC, saying: Here we are with one of the biggest changes in politics that's ever occurred and you're not even interested. What is wrong with the BBC? What is wrong with the BBC? He continued: I've been going round the country speaking at packed rallies every night and do you know who's not there? The BBC, and from this line of questioning now I can see why. You're just not interested, are you? You are just not interested. As Marr continued to ask him about his comments regarding people with HIV, Farage said: Many have pointed out the irony of Farage claiming the BBC is biased, given this was his second appearance on a major political show this week, after being a panellist on Question Time on Thursday.
This is laughable. He accuses the BBC of bias when he’s on there multiple times a week. He falls apart like a cheap suit when pressed on any other domestic or global policy question. The man is an absolute fraud. I pity those who can’t see through it
Nigel Farage goes into meltdown when asked about his climate change denial, admiration for Putin and desire to privatise the NHS. It is the duty of every journalist across the country to hold his backwards views and disgraceful record to account. #Marr
Nigel Farage just said "I never want to use the word manifesto again", "the Brexit party will never have a manifesto"... Yet he's having an absolute meltdown over his past being pulled up. If the party has no manifesto, then YOU are the manifesto!!#Marr
Farage: “Stop talking about the things I actually said in the past to get something impossible and stoke hatred. Talk about the different things I promise now to get something impossible and stoke hatred” #marr
Meanwhile, Farage has since claimed that 'we are not just fighting the political class, but the BBC too.'
Nigel Farage's BBC Andrew Marr interview - fact checked Did the Brexit Party leader call for the NHS to be replaced with insurance. And did he coin the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal"? Here are his claims, fact checked
Nigel Farage has branded the BBC "the enemy" after he was asked about his own past comments in a major interview. The Brexit Party leader hit out after being grilled by Andrew Marr on remarks he made when leading UKIP.
Mr Marr said he was trying to explore the Brexit Party's wider policies - since it hasn't made them clear and doesn't have an EU election manifesto, despite soaring up in the polls. But Mr Farage claimed it was the "most ridiculous interview in my life". The Brexiteer did answer some questions put to him - including whether he still believed immigrants with HIV should not be treated on the NHS, or whether he stood by the infamous 'Breaking Point' poster of 2016. (The answer's more or less 'yes' to both). But others he dodged around, or tried to move on from quickly, by attacking his interviewer's choice of questions.
So in the interests of transparency, we've compared what he said today to the original quotes he was being asked about. This way you can judge for yourself if he's right to be angry at old issues being dragged up - or they're something for which he should be held to account.
" think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare"
On replacing the NHS with insurance
What BBC asked: "Do you still want to replace the NHS with a private insurance basis?" What Farage claimed today: "I never did. I would like – I would like to take the burden off the NHS... If I was encouraged to opt out of the system to relieve the burden of the NHS I would do so gleefully." What Farage said: "I think we’re going to have to think about healthcare very, very differently. I think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Frankly, I would feel more comfortable that my money would return value if I was able to do that through the market place of an insurance company than just us trustingly giving £100bn a year to central government and expecting them to organise the healthcare service from cradle to grave for us." (September 2012)
“In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"
On a second Brexit referendum
What BBC asked: "You now say that a second referendum, or another referendum would be in your phrase, ‘the ultimate betrayal.’ How can it be the ultimate betrayal when you yourself have advocated it?" What Farage claimed today: "Oh dear, oh dear. Now look, I’ve said we have to prefer ourselves on the leave side mentally for the fact there could be another referendum. If there is we have to fight it and win it." What Farage said: “The Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonis’s will never ever give up. They will go on whinging and wining and moaning all the way through this process. So maybe, just maybe, I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum". (January 2018). “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way . If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." (May 2016) .
"I was the one that coined the phrase, ‘no deal is better than a bad deal'"
On inventing the phrase 'no deal is better than a bad deal'
What BBC asked: "Nigel Farage, in 2016 why did you not advocate no deal [ Brexit ]?" What Farage claimed today: "Oh no, no, no. In the referendum itself I was the one that coined the phrase, ‘no deal is better than a bad deal'... I was using [it] every day for the last two weeks of that campaign." What Farage said: It's true that Mr Farage told the Mirror in June 2016: "No deal but continuing under WTO rules would be better and cheaper for this country than where we currently are." But so far we haven't been able to find evidence that - as he claims - Nigel Farage coined the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal" and used it in the referendum campaign. The phrase has been uttered in 3,172 mainstream newspaper or website news articles since 1 January 2016. However, the first of those was on 25 July 2016 - a month after the referendum result. And it came from Richard Tice, the founder of the Leave Means Leave group (and now Brexit Party chairman), not Nigel Farage. Likewise we've searched our e-mails for any press releases or interview transcripts containing the term. The first we found was on 18 September 2016, again from Mr Tice and Leave Means Leave. We asked a spokesman for any evidence of Mr Farage using the phrase in the EU referendum campaign. We were pointed to an example in June 2016 when he said "no deal is better than the rotten deal that we have at the moment" - but of course that's comparing No Deal to EU membership, not to a future 'bad' Brexit deal.
"Rich, free, catching your own fish, and with a seat at the World Trade Organisation!”
On a Norway style Brexit
What BBC asked: "When it comes to something like a closer relationship, as Norway has, you’re talking about betrayal. During the referendum you used to laud that, you used to present it as a wonderful opportunity." What Farage claimed today: "No, no no... I said Norway is doing better than we are. However, as I said on this programme, we can do much better than that. We could have gone for a free trade deal, we didn’t. We’re now three years on, we have to deliver the democratic will of the people of this country and the only way we can do that is by leaving on WTO terms." What Farage said: While he did say he would choose No Deal if it came to it, Farage also praised Norway in an EU referendum debate, saying sarcastically: “It would be ghastly if this country was like Norway. Can you imagine it? Rich, free, catching your own fish, and with a seat at the World Trade Organisation!” (May 2016)
"I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant"
On admiring Vladimir Putin
What BBC asked: "Do you still admire Vladimir Putin?"
What Farage claimed today: "No. I’ve never admired Vladimir Putin. I said I wouldn’t like to live in his country, this is absolute nonsense... [It was] 'Not as a human being'. So I don’t like him as a human being. What is your question? What is the relevance of this?" What Farage said: Asked which current world leader he most admired, he told GQ: "As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant. Not that I approve of him politically. How many journalists in jail now?" (March 2014).
On hearing foreign languages on a train
What BBC asked: "Do you still feel uncomfortable with foreign languages being spoken on trains?" What Farage claimed today: "You are just not interested, are you? Let’s talk about democracy, let’s talk about trust, let’s talk about competence in politics. This is ludicrous.' What Farage said: “We stopped at London Bridge, New Cross, Hither Green, it was not until we got past Grove Park that I could hear English being audibly spoken in the carriage. Does that make me feel slightly awkward? Yes it does." (February 2014)
"I think the ban on handguns is ludicrous"
On rolling back anti-gun laws in the UK
What BBC asked: "Do you still want to roll back gun controls and reintroduce handguns into this country?" What Farage claimed today: "This sums it up. D’you know, I’ve been going round the country speaking at packed rallies every night. And do you know who’s not there? The BBC. And from this line of questioning now I can see why. You’re just not interested, are you?" What Farage said: “I think the kneejerk legislation that Blair brought in that meant that the British Olympic pistol team have to go to France to even practise was just crackers... I think that we need a proper gun licensing system, which to a large extent I think we already have, and I think the ban on handguns is ludicrous." (January 2014)
Forget the polls. Even if the Brexit Party succeed at the European elections, it’ll have no impact on Brexit Even if Nigel Farage won every single vote, he could not guarantee frictionless trade, he could not prevent a post-Brexit recession, and he could not solve the Irish border riddle. Nor could any other politician
Nigel Farage, predictably enough, has shown his usual knack for grabbing the headlines. A professional politician and former City boy – you might say a member of the elite – Mr Farage is experienced and cunning enough to know exactly what to do when in a tight corner in a BBC interview: attack the BBC and play victim. It didn’t work with Andrew Marr, who retained his cool and pressed Mr Farage on some of his more eccentric pronouncements. It will make little difference to the Marmite-esque Farage. The nation has long since divided itself into those who love him and those who despise him. Mr Farage’s demand to have Brexit Party MEPs in on the negotiations in Brussels is the usual kind of ludicrous stunt.
Whatever Mr Farage says or does, in other words, won’t make much difference to the showing of his Brexit Party. But then, in fact, nor will his party’s probably respectable performance in the European elections make much difference to Brexit.
Credit where it’s due. It had not yet been 24 hours since Nigel Farage had been on the Sunday politics shows, warning of the “final betrayal” that was coming. And here he was, not even waiting for it not to come, but delivering it himself. The Brexit Party, the party Farage set up himself to contest the European elections he so desperately does not want to be contesting, was holding a press conference to announce it was betraying its own voters. Farage was introduced by the Brexit Party chairman, a man called Richard Tice, who is best known, though nevertheless unknown, for appearing at political events in a white open-topped bus with “Leave Means Leave” painted down the side. When it turned up at Tory party conference last year, he promised free non-EU booze to anyone who could spare five minutes to talk to him. Two people turned up, and one of them, I must reveal, was your humble sketch writer, there exclusively to take the **** out of the whole thing. It did not prove hard. Anyway, I digress. Tice had a message, and that message was that a vote for the Brexit Party in the European elections was a vote for “a WTO Brexit”, which is better known as a “no-deal Brexit” and best understood as a Place-Sanctions-On-Yourself Brexit.
Quite the volte face then. When Farage and co were going round the country three years ago, armed with slightly different lies, no one whispered a word about no-deal Brexit. Asked about it at the time, Farage’s view was that Angela Merkel simply wouldn’t allow it. She would be running for president again in 2017, and the German car makers would be so angry about it, “she would throw the election”. And yet, here we are, three years on, and, wouldn’t you know, Farage is betraying himself. Betraying everyone he talked round to his cause three years ago, betraying everything he’s ever said, just for the sake of standing in an election, which, just to be absolutely clear, he absolutely definitely doesn’t want to be standing in. Oh no. This was nevertheless, the less startling of the two big announcements. For we also learn that as well as a vote for the Brexit Party being a vote for “WTO Brexit”, it is also a vote for the Brexit Party’s MEPs to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. It is a vote to simultaneously sit down at the negotiating table and turn it over and walk away. And who would be doing the negotiating? “The highest quality candidates,” claimed Tice, which are currently not limited to Ann Widdecombe and former Loaded mag editor Martin Daubney, who not so long ago was proud to organise a “straight pride” march through London, fearlessly sticking it to gay pride, standing up for downtrodden straight men everywhere.
The betrayal Farage had been warning about still hasn’t come, by the way. That “betrayal” is a May/Corbyn deal on a temporary customs union, which we are led to believe is imminent but has not yet happened. If it does, Farage will have every right to be angry. He warned about this at the time, if you remember. He warned and no one listened. You’ll recall the “Breaking Point” poster, where he stood in front of a non-existent queue of lorries stretching no distance whatsoever up the M20, warning that the British people had had enough of frictionless trade with the European Union. That just-in-time supply chain had to be smashed up. It was never about free movement, ended under Theresa May’s deal. Never about payments to the EU, also ended. It was always, always, about the customs union. And if that’s not how you remember it, then maybe, just maybe, the betrayers aren’t who Farage says they are.
Chipper Nigel Farage grins and barely tries to sound plausible
It’s no deal or nothing for Nige, and his Brexit party is ready to negotiate the non-negotiable
You have to feel sorry for Nigel Farage. Time and again he has told us how much he despises the EU and how its MEPs are worthless parasites. Yet for the last 20 years he just hasn’t been able to drag himself away. He has been forced against his will to pocket more than £12,000 a month in salary and living allowances, not to mention a generous pension on top, just for making the occasional unhelpful appearance in Brussels. It’s an outrage. And to add insult to injury, now he’s being made to get himself elected to the European parliament yet again. This time as leader of his new Brexit party. For a man who clearly suffers so much in the service of his people, Nige was looking remarkably chipper at his latest press conference in London. Suntanned, relaxed and with the blissed-out look of someone whose grin has been stitched in place by a third-rate plastic surgeon operating out of the backstreets of LA, he is not so much a politician as a cable TV evangelist promising salvation in exchange for his followers selling their mothers and their souls.
First though, we were treated to a Robert Kilroy-Silk tribute act, the property developer and man of the people Richard Tice, whose wealth has played no part in establishing him as Farage’s go-to warmup act. “People want change in politics,” said Tice. Which seemed a rash claim given that Nige has been something of a broken record for decades now and was not offering anything very different from before.
No matter how often he tries to reinvent himself, Farage invariably reverts to his default settings. At heart he still has the air of the dodgy financial salesman who mis-sells you an insurance policy then later phones you up to say he is prepared to act on your behalf in reclaiming the money you are owed provided you agree to give him one-third of whatever he can get out of the insurance company. Not content with that, he will then try to get a third hit out of you by persuading you to reinvest the damages in yet another of his iffy schemes. Tice went on to outline the new modus operandi. After winning the EU elections, the Brexit party was going to insist that its MEPs be invited to take part in negotiating a no-deal Brexit. Even though the whole point of a no-deal Brexit was that there wasn’t anything to negotiate, the Brexit party’s MEPs were going to be on hand to oversee the negotiations that weren’t going to happen. Like Nige before them, they would be in Brussels to do absolutely nothing whatsoever. “We have the highest-quality candidates,” Tice insisted. “People who are far better qualified in negotiations than our current MPs and civil servants.” Because the reason the UK was in its current state of crisis was that no one had asked Annunziata Rees-Mogg, Claire Fox, Ann Widdecombe or Martin Daubney to be involved as its chief Brexit negotiators.
Think about it a minute. What had been missing was a woman who couldn’t even negotiate the family nanny away from her brother, an apologist for IRA killings who holds others to far higher standards than she does herself, a Strictly Come Dancing contestant and a man whose chief contribution to public life had been to edit a lads’ mag. Who knew that the last three years could have been so different if only this quartet had been called into action. It’s a view, I suppose. Not that Farage seemed bothered. “This is about democracy,” he declared, without any sense of irony. Nothing Nige has ever done has been about democracy. It’s always been all about him. Ukip was his baby and the Brexit party is much the same. He runs the organisation like a totalitarian regime. What he says goes: everyone else is just a satellite orbiting his ego. Useful objects of desire to be used and discarded in the fulfilment of his narcissistic fantasies. Fantasies that change week by week, year by year. Before the referendum he was happy with a Norway-style Brexit. Now it’s no deal or nothing. Regardless of what the majority of the country may want. His is a democracy that tells the people what they are going to get and then sets about giving it to them. Nige rattled on undeterred. The Brexit party would contest a general election but it wouldn’t have any credible policies. But he wouldn’t seek to become an MP himself. Far too risky. Seven times bitten, eight times shy. Rather he was far better off showing his MEPs the Brussels ropes. How to fiddle expenses. That sort of thing. And just because he had previous form on antisemitism and Islamophobia didn’t make him a racist. After 30 minutes or so, Farage appeared to lose interest. Enough was enough. It had been a decent morning’s work. The more useless Westminster politicians appeared to be, the easier his job became. And right now it was something of a doddle. He didn’t need to sound even vaguely plausible. All he had to do was stand up and insist he would be different. As long as nobody started to look too closely, all would be well.
Comments
On the scale of things , through the afternoon , you stayed away ..prob had a village hall remainers meeting or something .
During a relatively peaceful , Haysie free afternoon , fairly civilised conversation ensued .
I'm in stitches you would take the time to count the number of posts you made ...seriously made my day
Theresa May has vowed to bring forward key Brexit legislation for a Commons vote in the first week of June in what could be her last move as prime minister.
After a face-to-face meeting with Jeremy Corbyn, the prime minister said the cross-party talks with Labour to find a solution to the deadlock at Westminster will continue - despite both sides being downbeat about any resolution being found.
It came as the cabinet set a summer deadline for the UK to finally leave the European Union, after an extended meeting on Tuesday lasting over two hours at Downing Street.
Ministers agreed it was "imperative" to pass legislation ratifying Brexit before parliament rises for the summer break in July, and decided not to terminate the talks with Labour, which are now in their seventh week.
Following discussions with the Labour leader, a Downing Street spokesman said: 'This evening the prime minister met the leader of the opposition in the House of Commons to make clear our determination to bring the talks to a conclusion and deliver on the referendum result to leave the EU."
"We will therefore be bringing forward the Withdrawal Agreement Bill in the week beginning the 3rd June," they added. The spokesman also described the ongoing talks, which entered their seventh week on Monday, as "useful and constructive", adding further discussions will take place on Wednesday "as we seek the stable majority in parliament that will ensure the safe passage of the withdrawal agreement bill and the UK's swift exit from the EU".
Foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt also used a speech shortly after the cabinet meeting to warn that both the Conservative and Labour Party would be "crucified" by voters if they failed to respect the 2016 referendum result.
Referring to the cross-party talks, he told the Wall Street Journal CEO Council conference in London: "There is potential because when you look at the fundamentals it is actually in both parties' interests to resolve Brexit.
"Because both of us will be crucified by our base if we went into a general election having promised that we would respect the referendum result, not having respected it.
"And I think the lesson at the local elections is that the downside for Labour is as big as the downside for us. I don't think it's impossible that there could be a deal there."
But their was little enthusiasm in Brussels regarding any developments in Westminster, as a spokesperson for the EU commission said leaders of the 27 member states are on a "Brexit break"They said the EU would only turn its attention to Brexit again "if there is something happening in London", as the UK's chief negotiator in the civil service, Olly Robbins, was expected to travel to the Belgian capital on Wednesday to discuss the future UK-EU relationship, post-Brexit.
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor and close ally of the Labour leader, earlier claimed there had been no "significant shift" from the government. "And, let's be absolutely straight, today hasn't helped," he said.
On the prospect of a new Conservative leader tearing up any agreement that is reached, he added: "Our big problem now is, if we are going to march our troops in parliament to the top of the hill for a deal and then that's overturned within weeks, I think that would be a cataclysmic act of bad faith
."https://uk.yahoo.com/news/brexit-may-reveals-plan-commons-191200799.html
Brexit vote
Downing Street's announcement that the EU Withdrawal Agreement Bill is to be brought to the Commons next month is widely reported.
"The Fourth Vote Awakens", the Huffpost UK website declares. The Sun says Theresa May will face a June D-Day.
For the Times, it will be a moment of truth for the prime minister and her Brexit deal.
The Telegraph says Mrs May has tried to delay her resignation for almost three months by telling ministers she can get a deal done if she's allowed to stay in Number 10 until the end of July.
The announcement comes as a surprise to some. The Politico website says that with nothing yet agreed in the talks with Labour, and large factions in both main parties implacably opposed to the Brexit deal, it remains unclear how Mrs May hopes to win a Commons majority.
The LabourList website thinks that relying on either Conservative or Labour votes in the Commons is unlikely to produce a positive outcome for her.
The Sun reports that the prime minister came under heavy pressure from her "frustrated" cabinet to bring the bill forward.
The Politics Home website says she will hope the move will be enough to satisfy Tory MPs demanding that she sets out a timetable for her departure from Number 10.
The Guardian says Mrs May hopes the bill will help to fend off calls for an imminent no-confidence vote from her backbenchers.
The Times leads with a warning by the leader of Britain's police chiefs to Theresa May that anti-terrorist operations would be hampered if she bows to pressure to create an official definition of Islamophobia.
The paper says the adoption of the definition could in effect make it racist to criticise Islam or "Muslimness".
In a letter to the Prime Minister seen by the Times, Martin Hewitt - chairman of the National Police Chiefs' Council - says the definition poses a threat to terror laws, stop-and-search at ports and the outlawing of terrorist groups.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48276150
But the Brexit Party leader immediately made another false claim about "Asian" people in the town
Nigel Farage has rowed back on a claim he made about black people in Oldham.
But he immediately made another false claim about "Asian" people in the town, complaining that he was getting "caught up in terminology."
The Brexit Party leader was branded "dangerous" after falsely claiming there was a street in Oldham where one side was populated by black people and the other entirely by white people.
No such street exists.
And today, Farage was forced into an embarrassing on-air climbdown over the claim.
He told LBC's Nick Ferrari he had got the figure from late BBC journalist Charles Wheeler.
He said: "[Wheeler] said what a tragedy it was that, almost like Northern Ireland had been, where you have divided communities on religion, you have Asian areas and white areas in Oldham.
"And I'm sorry to say..."
Mr Ferrari interrupted, asking if he said "Asian areas or black areas?"
Farage said: "Well, we all get caught up in this terminology. What's allowed one day is not allowed the next day.
"But they are Asian areas. They can call that black or whatever you need to call it.
"But here's the point. Even today in 2019, you've got one ward in Oldham that is 97% white, and the next door ward, which is 66%..."
This claim is also false.
According to the most recent census data, there is one ward in Oldham - St Mary's - which is 66% "non white" - which includes all ethnicities other than white.
However none of its neighbouring wards are 97% white.
Asked what he would to resolve the nonexistent situation, Farage said: "Part of that is about a responsible immigration policy. Having numbers coming in...and we've got a devil of a job to do with a job that already exists."
He went on: "I do not want to live in a country where we have people divided and separated out."
The interview came almost five years to the day after Mr Farage said he would be "concerned" if a group of Romanian people moved in next door to him.
In an interview with LBC Radio, he said: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."
In a statement after the interview he added: "Any normal and fair-minded person would have a perfect right to be concerned if a group of Romanian people suddenly moved in next door."
Later in today's interview, he said he would never have a manifesto despite being attacked by one listener who complained his party - polling ahead of the Tories for next week's EU elections - has almost no policies.
Other listeners accused him of "using immigration to whip up a frenzy" and told him: "You use the fears of ordinary people under the premise of a grand lie."
Mr Farage snapped at another listener: "You clearly aren’t very good at listening, Carol."
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-forced-admit-claim-15760051
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48265260
Nigel wants to take back democracy, but does not offer to deliver it
Nigel Farage throws furious tantrum as BBC asks him about his views on NHS
The appeal of Nigel Farage is based upon the fact that he claims responsibility for Brexit.
The price of him is that he has no intention of owning it.
During the 2016 referendum, the official Vote Leave campaign noticed something termed 'The Farage Effect'. Every time he appeared in public, Leave dipped in the polls. He now claims to be leading a massive surge to Leave, even though Remain has been clearly ahead since 2017.
What Nigel says, and what exists, does not tally. He's either a one-man Brexit machine, or a liability who does more to damage the cause than save it.
But that suits Nigel just fine. He can play the messiah, and later wash his hands of whatever unfolds.
It's surely a coincidence that the best way to slope off is on £78,000 a year for a bare minimum of 50 days in the office, with secret expenses and a gold-plated pension, and that's exactly the job he's trying to stay in.
It's much easier to get elected to the EU Parliament, which uses proportional representation in a place that's rarely televised or accurately reported, than it is to get into Westminster, where the country demands firmer democratic support and deeper scrutiny.
It must be another coincidence that Nigel has managed the easy version 4 times, and failed the harder test on 7 occasions.
And although the country is pinballing towards another general election, which will do more than anything else to decide how and if we Brexit at all, if Nigel gets his way he won't be expected to take part in it.
Instead he plans to ensconce himself and his not-much-work ethic in the EU Parliament, where he'll not be asked to do anything much except flap his gums about the amazing success of the Brexit Party.
And it IS amazing. Because the Brexit Party is everything he claims to be against.
Um, well, hang on, er…
He says he's a democrat, but its leader is unelected. He claims to be an anti-Establishment outsider, but believes a former City trader educated at a £40,000-a-year prep school can speak for the people.
And he has decried, for decades, the opaque funding, hypocrisy and lies of mainstream politicians, when he relies on all of those things to keep his career afloat.
Perhaps most of all he has benefited from a reputation as a plain speaker, while others have suffered from sounding too polished by comparison.
Yet yesterday he blustered, flustered, avoided and evaded questions in what he called "the most ridiculous interview of my life". And remember, this is a man who's conducted interviews while dressed as a drunken Rupert the Bear.
Man of the people, my ****
The party he has now founded - after the last one he founded became so racist that Danny Baker wouldn't be racist enough to join it - has no plan for how to Brexit.
Coming as it does after three years of chaos which has arisen precisely because there is no plan, it is a bold move to claim the Brexit Party would provide any answers.
It's especially courageous considering that any MEPs it gains won't have anything to do with Brexit. It's the government's job to handle international treaties and trade deals. However much Nigel may ask to be included, it's an MEP's job to approve, amend or reject EU laws on things like toy safety, use of pesticides, and GM food labelling. Voting for Nigel to enforce Brexit is like voting for apples when you want to make a pear pie: fairly daft.
Some say the Brexit Party will force us to leave without a deal. To those people, it should be pointed out that MEPs can't force the UK to do anything without Parliamentary approval, as the past 3 years have shown.
And even if they could, they'd be restarting a war on the Northern Irish border on day one.
No war is better than a bad war, you tool
His party is shameless about the career politicians, low-skilled commentators and accumulated wingnuts who form its candidates. Communists, multi-millionaires, IRA sympathisers, bonkers cat ladies and those with Mogg DNA share a platform, and a complete lack of charm.
It is secretive about its funding. Nigel has made claims about grass roots support and six-figure donations, but despite the fact the party is required to declare funds it will not do so before the EU elections. So far just one hedge funder has admitted donating, and there have been unsubstantiated claims about anonymous PayPal donations that could be made from, say, Russia. A party that is not open about who pays for it is corruption in utero.
But the most damaging thing the Brexit Party does is demand to "take back democracy", while being as undemocratic as it is possible to be.
It boasts thousands of "registered supporters", who each give £25 to the cause without earning a single right to vote on its policies, leadership or attend an annual conference.
HINT: He says "take" democracy, not "deliver"
And the democracy it wants is highly selective. English democracy, which overrides that of Northern Ireland where the vast majority of 1.8million UK citizens don't want a border, don't want to reunify with Ireland, and don't particularly want to Brexit.
You may want to Brexit. You may believe, against all the evidence, that Nigel is a nice guy. But you have to be insane to vote for him.
Members of the Conservative and Unionist Party who vote for him are voting to dissolve the union. Voters who want their democracy back will be removing it from others. Those who despise evasive, hypocritical, self-serving politicians in Westminster will be creating more of them in Strasbourg. Those who hate the EU will be voting to make it less accountable, less democratic, and less effective.
And those who just want to get on with Brexit will find themselves further from it.
"It's ridiculous to ask me questions!"
Because Brexit requires a plan, not soundbites. If Nigel wins, soundbites is all you'll get. There's no manifesto because he's got nothing to write in it. The last thing he needs is a promise he'll have to keep.
If he destroys the Tory party he was once a member of - or, to be fair, finishes off a bunch of old ladies who've been handbagging each other to death for years - you'll get a Corbyn government and a People's Vote and no Brexit at all.
And, do you know, Nigel's not stupid. He knows all this. He's just not telling you where he's leading you.
He's the Pied Piper of Fudgin' - come with me, don't count my expenses, don't ask me to work too hard, don't ask me to fix anything. At some point he'll almost certainly start talking about "the journey" like an X Factor contestant who accidentally scraped into the live shows.
You've never seen them in the same room, have you?
If the Brexit vote of 2016 was a protest, then so is a vote for the Brexit Party.
But it's a protest that will achieve nothing - no cleaner politics, no sleaze-free politicians, and no Brexit at all. It's a vote that says the EU doesn't matter, when the past 3 years have proven the opposite to all of us.
Nigel wants to take back democracy, but he does not offer to deliver it. He wants to fight for Brexit, but is seeking election to a place where he will be beyond its reach, safe on a gravy train for another 5 years, another £390,000 in salary, and untold TV appearances.
Twenty years after he was first elected, he is still refusing to accept responsibility for the consequences. If that appeals to you, it's not a politician you want; it's a doctor.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-party-shameless-secretive-insane-15635147
The referendum/confirmatory vote would provide a definitive solution and end it all.
The vote would be on the most popular deal, which would be decided by Parliament, remain, and no deal.
I would be flexible on whether no deal was on the ballot, as Parliament has already ruled it out.
There would be moans from some quarters if it wasn't on the ballot so lets say it would be.
So subsequent to the vote, its all over.
No wasted time, no huge costs.
Remain wins we carry on as normal.
No deal wins, we just leave, and prepare for the catastrophe.
The deal wins, we would move into a transition period while the details are finalised
You can suggest as many different types of deal as you want. None of them have a majority in Parliament, but the type of deal is irrelevant, it is a red herring, we cant talk about a deal until we pass the Withdrawal Bill, which currently isn't happening.
Less interested members of the public just appear to be saying to politicians, just get on with it. This is despite the importance of the outcome. I am sure that many of these people will just be glad to see the end, rather than participating in a Civil War, even if the end was a referendum/confirmatory vote.
The reason a Norway plus a customs union deal wouldnt get passed is because it involves freedom of movement, an annual contribution, and no independent trade policy.
To accept this would mean we should remain, as remaining means we have a say, but leaving with a Norway deal gives us no say, whilst accepting the rules. Norway plus a customs union, is all but remaining.
I could go on all day about this, but one last bit.
For those that go on about the will of the people. Everyone knows it was 52% against 48%.
The 48% knew exactly what they were voting for, but the leave voters didn't.
There are effectively 4 leave options which have some support in Parliament.
There is no deal, Canada plus, Norway plus, and Theresa Mays deal.
Many leave voters are convinced that a leave vote only meant one particular option.
For example the ERG, and Nigel Farage, are now trying to convince the electorate that a leave vote only meant no deal. Despite the fact that this is not true.
Many of these people are adamant that a leave vote only meant their preferred solution.
Two of the options are for us to remain close to the EU on leaving, the other two options mean we would be further away.
So if we biased this in favour of the leave vote, lets just say there are only two options, otherwise we halve the figures, and make it look much worse from a leave perspective.
Two options, one remaining close to the EU, the other moving away.
The supporters of either of these two options will be fiercely against the other. A supporter of no deal hates Theresa Mays deal, and vice versa. A supporter of Canada, hates Norway, and vice versa.
So for the sake of argument lets say lets say half the 52% think that they voted for each solution. So 26% in favour of each. If we took the four solutions into account that would mean on 13% in favour of each one.
Nigel Farage is now saying that Brexit means no deal, despite all the evidence to the contrary during the referendum campaign.
A referendum/confirmatory vote actually ends it all.
How can you quote the will of the people when only 26% actually get what they believed they voted for.
We can only have one solution.
If we had a second referendum after leaving, on whether or not people feel they got what they voted for, around three quarters would say no. This figure would be as high as 87% if we took the four solutions into consideration.
The will of the people?
I don't think so.
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ukips-top-10-most-memorable-quotes-nigel-farage-godfrey-bloom-david-silvester-more-1433098
Nigel Farage had yet another memorable TV moment this morning when he threw a tantrum on The Andrew Marr Show after being asked about his most controversial views.
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#Marr asks the Brexit Party Leader Nigel Farage if he’s changed his views on the NHS, climate change, gun control and Vladimir Putin
#Brexit http://bbc.in/2vUc0JQ
Trying to get some clarity on what Farage's Brexit Party actually stands for, Marr questioned him on some of his previous statements about his admiration for Putin, his desire to roll back gun controls in the UK, and banning people who are HIV positive from entering the country.
In response, Farage went off on a bizarre rant about the BBC, saying:
Here we are with one of the biggest changes in politics that's ever occurred and you're not even interested.
What is wrong with the BBC? What is wrong with the BBC?
He continued:
I've been going round the country speaking at packed rallies every night and do you know who's not there?
The BBC, and from this line of questioning now I can see why. You're just not interested, are you? You are just not interested.
As Marr continued to ask him about his comments regarding people with HIV, Farage said:
Many have pointed out the irony of Farage claiming the BBC is biased, given this was his second appearance on a major political show this week, after being a panellist on Question Time on Thursday.
This is laughable. He accuses the BBC of bias when he’s on there multiple times a week. He falls apart like a cheap suit when pressed on any other domestic or global policy question. The man is an absolute fraud. I pity those who can’t see through it
ohn McDonnell MP
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@johnmcdonnellMP
Farage car crash interview exposes the frightening prospect for our community if Farage got anywhere near power.
David Lammy
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@DavidLammy
Nigel Farage goes into meltdown when asked about his climate change denial, admiration for Putin and desire to privatise the NHS. It is the duty of every journalist across the country to hold his backwards views and disgraceful record to account. #Marr
Femi
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@Femi_Sorry
Nigel Farage just said "I never want to use the word manifesto again", "the Brexit party will never have a manifesto"...
Yet he's having an absolute meltdown over his past being pulled up. If the party has no manifesto, then YOU are the manifesto!!#Marr
Emma Kennedy
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@EmmaKennedy
I’ve always said, when @nigel_farage is properly held to account, he crumbles.
He’s absolutely useless when he’s questioned. #Marr
David Schneider
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@davidschneider
Farage: “Stop talking about the things I actually said in the past to get something impossible and stoke hatred. Talk about the different things I promise now to get something impossible and stoke hatred” #marr
Meanwhile, Farage has since claimed that 'we are not just fighting the political class, but the BBC too.'
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/nigel-farage-has-accused-the-bbc-of-not-giving-him-enough-coverage-and-everyone-is-pointing-out-the-obvious/ar-AABfZuV?ocid=spartandhp
Did the Brexit Party leader call for the NHS to be replaced with insurance. And did he coin the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal"? Here are his claims, fact checked
Nigel Farage has branded the BBC "the enemy" after he was asked about his own past comments in a major interview.
The Brexit Party leader hit out after being grilled by Andrew Marr on remarks he made when leading UKIP.
Mr Marr said he was trying to explore the Brexit Party's wider policies - since it hasn't made them clear and doesn't have an EU election manifesto, despite soaring up in the polls.
But Mr Farage claimed it was the "most ridiculous interview in my life".
The Brexiteer did answer some questions put to him - including whether he still believed immigrants with HIV should not be treated on the NHS, or whether he stood by the infamous 'Breaking Point' poster of 2016. (The answer's more or less 'yes' to both).
But others he dodged around, or tried to move on from quickly, by attacking his interviewer's choice of questions.
So in the interests of transparency, we've compared what he said today to the original quotes he was being asked about.
This way you can judge for yourself if he's right to be angry at old issues being dragged up - or they're something for which he should be held to account.
" think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare"
On replacing the NHS with insurance
What BBC asked: "Do you still want to replace the NHS with a private insurance basis?"
What Farage claimed today: "I never did. I would like – I would like to take the burden off the NHS... If I was encouraged to opt out of the system to relieve the burden of the NHS I would do so gleefully."
What Farage said: "I think we’re going to have to think about healthcare very, very differently. I think we are going to have to move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Frankly, I would feel more comfortable that my money would return value if I was able to do that through the market place of an insurance company than just us trustingly giving £100bn a year to central government and expecting them to organise the healthcare service from cradle to grave for us." (September 2012)
“In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way"
On a second Brexit referendum
What BBC asked: "You now say that a second referendum, or another referendum would be in your phrase, ‘the ultimate betrayal.’ How can it be the ultimate betrayal when you yourself have advocated it?"
What Farage claimed today: "Oh dear, oh dear. Now look, I’ve said we have to prefer ourselves on the leave side mentally for the fact there could be another referendum. If there is we have to fight it and win it."
What Farage said: “The Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonis’s will never ever give up. They will go on whinging and wining and moaning all the way through this process. So maybe, just maybe, I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum". (January 2018). “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way . If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." (May 2016) .
"I was the one that coined the phrase, ‘no deal is better than a bad deal'"
On inventing the phrase 'no deal is better than a bad deal'
What BBC asked: "Nigel Farage, in 2016 why did you not advocate no deal [ Brexit ]?"
What Farage claimed today: "Oh no, no, no. In the referendum itself I was the one that coined the phrase, ‘no deal is better than a bad deal'... I was using [it] every day for the last two weeks of that campaign."
What Farage said: It's true that Mr Farage told the Mirror in June 2016: "No deal but continuing under WTO rules would be better and cheaper for this country than where we currently are."
But so far we haven't been able to find evidence that - as he claims - Nigel Farage coined the phrase "no deal is better than a bad deal" and used it in the referendum campaign. The phrase has been uttered in 3,172 mainstream newspaper or website news articles since 1 January 2016. However, the first of those was on 25 July 2016 - a month after the referendum result. And it came from Richard Tice, the founder of the Leave Means Leave group (and now Brexit Party chairman), not Nigel Farage.
Likewise we've searched our e-mails for any press releases or interview transcripts containing the term. The first we found was on 18 September 2016, again from Mr Tice and Leave Means Leave.
We asked a spokesman for any evidence of Mr Farage using the phrase in the EU referendum campaign. We were pointed to an example in June 2016 when he said "no deal is better than the rotten deal that we have at the moment" - but of course that's comparing No Deal to EU membership, not to a future 'bad' Brexit deal.
"Rich, free, catching your own fish, and with a seat at the World Trade Organisation!”
On a Norway style Brexit
What BBC asked: "When it comes to something like a closer relationship, as Norway has, you’re talking about betrayal. During the referendum you used to laud that, you used to present it as a wonderful opportunity."
What Farage claimed today: "No, no no... I said Norway is doing better than we are. However, as I said on this programme, we can do much better than that. We could have gone for a free trade deal, we didn’t. We’re now three years on, we have to deliver the democratic will of the people of this country and the only way we can do that is by leaving on WTO terms."
What Farage said: While he did say he would choose No Deal if it came to it, Farage also praised Norway in an EU referendum debate, saying sarcastically: “It would be ghastly if this country was like Norway. Can you imagine it? Rich, free, catching your own fish, and with a seat at the World Trade Organisation!” (May 2016)
"I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant"
On admiring Vladimir Putin
What BBC asked: "Do you still admire Vladimir Putin?"
What Farage claimed today: "No. I’ve never admired Vladimir Putin. I said I wouldn’t like to live in his country, this is absolute nonsense... [It was] 'Not as a human being'. So I don’t like him as a human being. What is your question? What is the relevance of this?"
What Farage said: Asked which current world leader he most admired, he told GQ: "As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin. The way he played the whole Syria thing. Brilliant. Not that I approve of him politically. How many journalists in jail now?" (March 2014).
On hearing foreign languages on a train
What BBC asked: "Do you still feel uncomfortable with foreign languages being spoken on trains?"
What Farage claimed today: "You are just not interested, are you? Let’s talk about democracy, let’s talk about trust, let’s talk about competence in politics. This is ludicrous.'
What Farage said: “We stopped at London Bridge, New Cross, Hither Green, it was not until we got past Grove Park that I could hear English being audibly spoken in the carriage. Does that make me feel slightly awkward? Yes it does." (February 2014)
"I think the ban on handguns is ludicrous"
On rolling back anti-gun laws in the UK
What BBC asked: "Do you still want to roll back gun controls and reintroduce handguns into this country?"
What Farage claimed today: "This sums it up. D’you know, I’ve been going round the country speaking at packed rallies every night. And do you know who’s not there? The BBC. And from this line of questioning now I can see why. You’re just not interested, are you?"
What Farage said: “I think the kneejerk legislation that Blair brought in that meant that the British Olympic pistol team have to go to France to even practise was just crackers... I think that we need a proper gun licensing system, which to a large extent I think we already have, and I think the ban on handguns is ludicrous." (January 2014)
Even if Nigel Farage won every single vote, he could not guarantee frictionless trade, he could not prevent a post-Brexit recession, and he could not solve the Irish border riddle. Nor could any other politician
Nigel Farage, predictably enough, has shown his usual knack for grabbing the headlines. A professional politician and former City boy – you might say a member of the elite – Mr Farage is experienced and cunning enough to know exactly what to do when in a tight corner in a BBC interview: attack the BBC and play victim. It didn’t work with Andrew Marr, who retained his cool and pressed Mr Farage on some of his more eccentric pronouncements.
It will make little difference to the Marmite-esque Farage. The nation has long since divided itself into those who love him and those who despise him. Mr Farage’s demand to have Brexit Party MEPs in on the negotiations in Brussels is the usual kind of ludicrous stunt.
Whatever Mr Farage says or does, in other words, won’t make much difference to the showing of his Brexit Party. But then, in fact, nor will his party’s probably respectable performance in the European elections make much difference to Brexit.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/brexit-party-european-elections-poll-latest-nigel-farage-lib-dems-a8910516.html
Credit where it’s due. It had not yet been 24 hours since Nigel Farage had been on the Sunday politics shows, warning of the “final betrayal” that was coming. And here he was, not even waiting for it not to come, but delivering it himself.
The Brexit Party, the party Farage set up himself to contest the European elections he so desperately does not want to be contesting, was holding a press conference to announce it was betraying its own voters.
Farage was introduced by the Brexit Party chairman, a man called Richard Tice, who is best known, though nevertheless unknown, for appearing at political events in a white open-topped bus with “Leave Means Leave” painted down the side.
When it turned up at Tory party conference last year, he promised free non-EU booze to anyone who could spare five minutes to talk to him.
Two people turned up, and one of them, I must reveal, was your humble sketch writer, there exclusively to take the **** out of the whole thing. It did not prove hard.
Anyway, I digress. Tice had a message, and that message was that a vote for the Brexit Party in the European elections was a vote for “a WTO Brexit”, which is better known as a “no-deal Brexit” and best understood as a Place-Sanctions-On-Yourself Brexit.
Quite the volte face then. When Farage and co were going round the country three years ago, armed with slightly different lies, no one whispered a word about no-deal Brexit. Asked about it at the time, Farage’s view was that Angela Merkel simply wouldn’t allow it. She would be running for president again in 2017, and the German car makers would be so angry about it, “she would throw the election”.
And yet, here we are, three years on, and, wouldn’t you know, Farage is betraying himself. Betraying everyone he talked round to his cause three years ago, betraying everything he’s ever said, just for the sake of standing in an election, which, just to be absolutely clear, he absolutely definitely doesn’t want to be standing in. Oh no.
This was nevertheless, the less startling of the two big announcements. For we also learn that as well as a vote for the Brexit Party being a vote for “WTO Brexit”, it is also a vote for the Brexit Party’s MEPs to be involved in the Brexit negotiations. It is a vote to simultaneously sit down at the negotiating table and turn it over and walk away.
And who would be doing the negotiating? “The highest quality candidates,” claimed Tice, which are currently not limited to Ann Widdecombe and former Loaded mag editor Martin Daubney, who not so long ago was proud to organise a “straight pride” march through London, fearlessly sticking it to gay pride, standing up for downtrodden straight men everywhere.
The betrayal Farage had been warning about still hasn’t come, by the way. That “betrayal” is a May/Corbyn deal on a temporary customs union, which we are led to believe is imminent but has not yet happened.
If it does, Farage will have every right to be angry. He warned about this at the time, if you remember. He warned and no one listened. You’ll recall the “Breaking Point” poster, where he stood in front of a non-existent queue of lorries stretching no distance whatsoever up the M20, warning that the British people had had enough of frictionless trade with the European Union.
That just-in-time supply chain had to be smashed up. It was never about free movement, ended under Theresa May’s deal. Never about payments to the EU, also ended. It was always, always, about the customs union.
And if that’s not how you remember it, then maybe, just maybe, the betrayers aren’t who Farage says they are.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nigel-farage-betraying-own-voters-154814141.html
Chipper Nigel Farage grins and barely tries to sound plausible
It’s no deal or nothing for Nige, and his Brexit party is ready to negotiate the non-negotiable
You have to feel sorry for Nigel Farage. Time and again he has told us how much he despises the EU and how its MEPs are worthless parasites. Yet for the last 20 years he just hasn’t been able to drag himself away. He has been forced against his will to pocket more than £12,000 a month in salary and living allowances, not to mention a generous pension on top, just for making the occasional unhelpful appearance in Brussels. It’s an outrage. And to add insult to injury, now he’s being made to get himself elected to the European parliament yet again. This time as leader of his new Brexit party.
For a man who clearly suffers so much in the service of his people, Nige was looking remarkably chipper at his latest press conference in London. Suntanned, relaxed and with the blissed-out look of someone whose grin has been stitched in place by a third-rate plastic surgeon operating out of the backstreets of LA, he is not so much a politician as a cable TV evangelist promising salvation in exchange for his followers selling their mothers and their souls.
First though, we were treated to a Robert Kilroy-Silk tribute act, the property developer and man of the people Richard Tice, whose wealth has played no part in establishing him as Farage’s go-to warmup act. “People want change in politics,” said Tice. Which seemed a rash claim given that Nige has been something of a broken record for decades now and was not offering anything very different from before.
No matter how often he tries to reinvent himself, Farage invariably reverts to his default settings. At heart he still has the air of the dodgy financial salesman who mis-sells you an insurance policy then later phones you up to say he is prepared to act on your behalf in reclaiming the money you are owed provided you agree to give him one-third of whatever he can get out of the insurance company. Not content with that, he will then try to get a third hit out of you by persuading you to reinvest the damages in yet another of his iffy schemes.
Tice went on to outline the new modus operandi. After winning the EU elections, the Brexit party was going to insist that its MEPs be invited to take part in negotiating a no-deal Brexit. Even though the whole point of a no-deal Brexit was that there wasn’t anything to negotiate, the Brexit party’s MEPs were going to be on hand to oversee the negotiations that weren’t going to happen. Like Nige before them, they would be in Brussels to do absolutely nothing whatsoever.
“We have the highest-quality candidates,” Tice insisted. “People who are far better qualified in negotiations than our current MPs and civil servants.” Because the reason the UK was in its current state of crisis was that no one had asked Annunziata Rees-Mogg, Claire Fox, Ann Widdecombe or Martin Daubney to be involved as its chief Brexit negotiators.
Think about it a minute. What had been missing was a woman who couldn’t even negotiate the family nanny away from her brother, an apologist for IRA killings who holds others to far higher standards than she does herself, a Strictly Come Dancing contestant and a man whose chief contribution to public life had been to edit a lads’ mag. Who knew that the last three years could have been so different if only this quartet had been called into action. It’s a view, I suppose.
Not that Farage seemed bothered. “This is about democracy,” he declared, without any sense of irony. Nothing Nige has ever done has been about democracy. It’s always been all about him. Ukip was his baby and the Brexit party is much the same. He runs the organisation like a totalitarian regime.
What he says goes: everyone else is just a satellite orbiting his ego. Useful objects of desire to be used and discarded in the fulfilment of his narcissistic fantasies. Fantasies that change week by week, year by year. Before the referendum he was happy with a Norway-style Brexit. Now it’s no deal or nothing. Regardless of what the majority of the country may want. His is a democracy that tells the people what they are going to get and then sets about giving it to them.
Nige rattled on undeterred. The Brexit party would contest a general election but it wouldn’t have any credible policies. But he wouldn’t seek to become an MP himself. Far too risky. Seven times bitten, eight times shy. Rather he was far better off showing his MEPs the Brussels ropes. How to fiddle expenses. That sort of thing. And just because he had previous form on antisemitism and Islamophobia didn’t make him a racist.
After 30 minutes or so, Farage appeared to lose interest. Enough was enough. It had been a decent morning’s work. The more useless Westminster politicians appeared to be, the easier his job became. And right now it was something of a doddle. He didn’t need to sound even vaguely plausible. All he had to do was stand up and insist he would be different. As long as nobody started to look too closely, all would be well.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/07/chipper-nigel-farage-grins-and-barely-tries-to-sound-plausible