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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Labour’s slipperiness and lack of leadership on Brexit must have John Smith turning in his grave
    By refusing to back a second referendum, Jeremy Corbyn will gift votes in the European elections to the Lib Dems, the Greens and Change UK



    When will Labour smell the coffee? Ever since the party made it clear it wants elites, not the people, to decide the UK’s future in Europe, its support in opinion polls has declined. Labour now trails miserably behind Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party.
    Of course the party will get its share of MEPs, but from the point of view of Labour MEP candidates further down the list, it must be galling to see how their party leadership’s approach to Brexit is going to guarantee a good number of Lib Dem and Green MEPs when only a short while ago both parties were flat on their backs.



    Labour has insisted on putting up as main spokespeople on Europe shadow cabinet members like Richard Burgon or Barry Gardiner. They may have qualities in some areas of politics but not even their closest friends and admirers would give them much out of 10 when it comes to persuading voters on the question of Brexit.



    At its 2018 party conference rank and file delegates supported by key trade unions adopted a formal policy resolution stating: “Labour must support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.”

    This was not contingent on May’s unworkable Brexit deal, or some putative future Labour deal. To my mind, it was a clear instruction to start “campaigning for a public vote”.



    But the closest advisers to Corbyn, who share his 30-year long rejection of European Union norms and values – Corbyn has after all voted against every EU Treaty since entering the Commons in 1983 – as well as the key union, Unite, have spent the last eight months sidelining this commitment.



    As Jeremy Corbyn said last week at the formal launch of Labour’s European parliament election manifesto: “We accept Brexit. If we can’t get a sensible deal, along the lines of our alternative plan, or a general election, Labour backs the option of a public vote.”
    The party has put two major hurdles in the way of allowing the people to decide – Labour’s wishful thinking on having single market access without abiding by its rules, and a general election



    The same message was agreed by Labour’s ruling National Executive Council a few days before the local government elections on 3 May. The response was instantaneous. Labour voters switched to Lib Dem and Green candidates and as a consequence Labour lost councillors.
    To be sure, the headline figure was the big loss of 1,300 Tory council seats. But Labour also lost councillors, which is without precedent nine years into a Conservative government that since 2010 has imposed significant cuts in public services, tripled student fees and with Theresa May has the most unpopular prime minister in living memory.



    Now Labour MEP candidates are campaigning with their hands tied. They ask people to vote Labour to stop Farage – the same appeal as Lib Dems, Greens or Change UK. But asking people to support a negative – defeating Farage – is not enough. The biggest single demand emerging on Brexit is that the people should decide, not Westminster elites.



    This morning on the Today programme Tom Watson again climbed back onto the Corbyn side of the fence calling the Labour leader “a great man”. Watson said that while Labour wants a vote on May’s deal he couldn’t tell the presenter that Labour would trust the people as a matter of principle on staying in or leaving the EU – “not ruling it out, not ruling it in” – as Watson fell back on modern politics’ preferred equivocation.
    I knew and worked with the late John Smith on European issues and was the last MP he introduced into the Commons in 1994. Smith defied Harold Wilson and Labour’s anti-European leadership in the early 1970s to vote for British entry into Europe. This was about the same time Jeremy Corbyn was forming his political views, in line with Tony Benn’s hostility to Europe and the belief that socialism in one country, the UK, was the way forward.



    Smith must be turning in his grave at Labour’s slipperiness and lack of leadership on Europe. Voters will tell us on Thursday week if they are persuaded by Labour’s current line. Good Labour candidates who watch Lib Dem, Green even Change UK MEPs take their seats in the European parliament will rightly ask why Labour allowed this to happen.
    Denis MacShane was a Labour MP for 18 years and a former Europe minister. His book ‘Brexeternity: The Fate of Britain’ is due to be published this August




    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-european-elections-referendum-john-smith-a8911231.html
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,444

    Tikay10 said:


    I have a theory that you two actually love each other & plan to run away together to a romantic hideaway?

    Am I right?

    Busted ! ..But there is a reason for that ...at the bottom of the garden of our little hideaway , there is a loosely covered well . Just need to wait for a solar eclipse .

    signed , Kathy Bates :D

    fully expects to have to explain that one to anyone that doesn't watch films
    That must make @HAYSIE James Caan?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    edited May 2019
    So, in the event of Theresa May bringing back the Withdrawal Bill, as a confidence vote, and the ERG, and DUP bottle it because of the General Election threat, and support the Bill.

    Or even if it is not brought back as a confidence vote, but they still bottle it, to minimise the Farage threat.

    We would then be in the position, that we could leave the EU, before the MEPS take their seats. This stops Farage dead in his tracks, and make both Labour, and the Tories very happy.

    We then get a new Tory leader, and PM.

    We would be none the wiser on any future trading relationship, as those negotiations are in phase two, which has not yet started.

    If the new Tory leader goes along with Mays plan, we end up with what many have described as the worst of all worlds.

    If the new leader is someone like Boris, we could still end up with no deal.

    Alternatively if the Bill doesn't get through, we still get a new Tory leader. If May gambles on a confidence vote, the likelihood is we also get a Corbyn Government, and all that entails.

    All this in the name of democracy. The Will Of The People.

    Another option is the confirmatory vote.

    This would mean that the electorate would decide if they wished to leave with the worst of all deals, no deal, or remaining.

    This looks much more like democracy to me.

    Did all leave voters want yet another General Election?

    Were all leave voters in favour of a Corbyn Government?

    Did all leave voters support the worst of all worlds type deal?

    Did all leave voters wish to exit the EU without knowing what sort of future trading relationship we might have?

    Did Tory leave voters forsee a Tory/Farage pact in the next General Election?

    What exactly was the will of the people?

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    madprof said:

    Tikay10 said:


    I have a theory that you two actually love each other & plan to run away together to a romantic hideaway?

    Am I right?

    Busted ! ..But there is a reason for that ...at the bottom of the garden of our little hideaway , there is a loosely covered well . Just need to wait for a solar eclipse .

    signed , Kathy Bates :D

    fully expects to have to explain that one to anyone that doesn't watch films
    That must make @HAYSIE James Caan?
    Happy with that.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    madprof said:

    Tikay10 said:


    I have a theory that you two actually love each other & plan to run away together to a romantic hideaway?

    Am I right?

    Busted ! ..But there is a reason for that ...at the bottom of the garden of our little hideaway , there is a loosely covered well . Just need to wait for a solar eclipse .

    signed , Kathy Bates :D

    fully expects to have to explain that one to anyone that doesn't watch films
    That must make @HAYSIE James Caan?
    Only if James Caan is an alternative spelling for David Strathairn
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Former minister quits Labour saying party has been ‘destroyed’ under Corbyn’s leadership
    Bridget Prentice accuses Labour leader of failing to stand up to antisemitic ‘bigots’ and of ‘complete ignorance’ on Brexit







    A former minister has quit Labour with a furious attack on Jeremy Corbyn, warning the party has been “destroyed” under his leadership.
    Bridget Prentice accused Mr Corbyn of failing to stand up to antisemitic “bigots and bullies” and of “complete ignorance” about the damage to come from Brexit.

    “In all the major issues of the day, you have called it wrong,” the former justice minister wrote, in her resignation letter to Labour’s general secretary.



    The walkout follows a similar protest and resignation by Tony Robinson, the actor, and the defections of eight Labour MPs to the new Independent Group, now known as Change UK.

    In her letter, Ms Prentice said Labour no longer had “the values, aspiration or vision that led me to join it”, 45 years ago.


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bridget-prentice-labour-corbyn-brexit-antisemitism-resignation-a8913456.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Brexit: Renewed hope for second referendum as Theresa May’s deputy discusses ‘research’ with opposition leaders
    Change UK and Liberal Democrats emboldened by talks





    Theresa May’s deputy has given fresh hope to second referendum campaigners by saying another vote was “perfectly practical”, according to two party leaders.
    Change UK leader Heidi Allen said David Lidington, the Cabinet Office minister, had “clearly done his research” on the mechanics of a Final Say vote when she attended talks alongside Liberal Democrats Sir Vince Cable and Jo Swinson.

    Sir Vince said Mr Lidington had asserted that holding another vote would be “perfectly practical” during the meeting.



    In the wake of the Tories’ poor local election showing, Ms Allen said she felt there was “more of an open door” among senior Tories towards another referendum.

    She told The Independent: “I set the meeting up with [David] Lidington, because I thought surely there must be a greater appetite to end this desperate madness, to get her deal through on the back of a people’s vote so we can move on.
    Read more




    How would a Final Say referendum happen?
    The mood in the talks was “very different” compared with previous meetings, Ms Allen said, adding: “I sense there might have been more of an open door there.”



    She said: “He was all over the detail of the legislation and how complex legislation would be, how many days of debate it might need, the timetable might look like, how it would fit around summer recess.
    “He volunteered a lot of information so he has clearly done his research.”




    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-latest-second-referendum-vince-cable-david-lidington-a8909401.html
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,444

    madprof said:

    Tikay10 said:


    I have a theory that you two actually love each other & plan to run away together to a romantic hideaway?

    Am I right?

    Busted ! ..But there is a reason for that ...at the bottom of the garden of our little hideaway , there is a loosely covered well . Just need to wait for a solar eclipse .

    signed , Kathy Bates :D

    fully expects to have to explain that one to anyone that doesn't watch films
    That must make @HAYSIE James Caan?
    Only if James Caan is an alternative spelling for David Strathairn
    Sorry..I thought Bates breaking Caan's legs in Misery was more appropriate.....(haven't seen t'other one)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701










    The Guardian leads with the news that probation services are being renationalised, saying the reforms were "disastrous", and "widely derided".
    The Daily Mirror calls them "hated". The Financial Times describes the the part-privatisation as "chaotic", but says several of the companies that will lose contracts have warned the system will become fragmented and more expensive.
    The Times says it is a further blow to the reputation of Chris Grayling, who made the changes when he was justice secretary.

    Many of the papers seize on a new study which has found that Britons are world leaders - at drinking.
    The Daily Telegraph says a global survey found that Britons reported getting drunk an average of 51 times over the year, or almost once a week.
    The Sun says Americans, Canadians and Australians were close behind, but that the most sober nation is Chile, where people reported getting drunk 16 times a year.
    The i newspaper says researchers now think it may be time to introduce guidelines on "how to get drunk safely". The founder of the survey says people are told that drinking too much is bad, but that the guidance fails to accept the pleasure of intoxication

    May urged to quit
    The Daily Telegraph says the Conservatives will topple Theresa May within a month, if she does not set out a timetable for her departure today.
    Her former chief of staff, Nick Timothy, writes for the paper that she must "accept that the game is up". He urges her to do her duty and stand aside, in order to avoid a "national humiliation" and save the Conservative Party.
    The Sun predicts the Tories' "last roll of the Brexit dice" will fail, and warns that politics will become even more unstable.
    Sketches of Wednesday's Prime Minister's Questions focus on the strangely calm mood. The ConservativeHome website says the atmosphere was like "a classroom where the pupils have completed, with huge gaps, the test, but are being allowed a bit more time, in case they suddenly and implausibly remember the answers".
    The Guardian says the Commons was half empty: "Theresa May's removal has already been factored in and it's as though she has already been disappeared."

    There is a broad welcome for the government's move yesterday to protect former soldiers from repeated legal claims, but there are calls to go further.
    The Sun says the prime minister appears to have "capitulated" to Sinn Fein by not including Northern Ireland in the proposed measures.
    It urges her successor - whoever that might be - to "defend those who risked their lives defending us".
    The Daily Mail says soldiers are not above the law, but it condemns that prospect of a "tragic parade of veterans being dragged through the courts".
    The Guardian wonders if the government is sending the right signal - it warns against "fostering a moral ambivalance about Britain's human rights obligations".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48289983
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Theresa May SHOCK: Loyalists threaten to oust backbenchers if they try to overthrow PM
    THERESA MAY loyalists have threatened to get rid of backbenchers who are trying to oust the Prime Minister.







    One senior Tory MP who wants Mrs May to stay told The Sun: "If the executive goes ahead with a rule change now, it will be the height of irresponsibility at this time of national crisis as well as destabilise the leadership forever more.

    “So we will call a confidence vote in them, which all colleagues are within their full rights to do.”
    Mrs May is expected to refuse Sir Graham’s timetable request, according to The Sun.
    One Brexiteer on the 1922 Committee said Mrs May is likely to escape challenges to her leadership due to her bringing the bill to Parliament.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1127776/brexit-news-latest-theresa-may-resignation-no-deal-leave-eu-elections-2019
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Call their bluff!’ MP says ERG MPs have ‘TRASHED reputation’ of Tory Party
    BREXITEER Daniel Kawczynski has launched a stinging attack on the European Research Group, chaired by Jacob Rees-Mogg - accusing them of “trashing the reputation” of the Conservative Party.




    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1126279/Brexit-news-Theresa-May-Conservative-Party-EU-exit-Brexit-Party-1922-committee
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    Nigel Farage's Brexit Party lets 'Vladimir Putin' sign up as a supporter
    The Brexit Party's website could open the door to 'fake members' donating millions


    Vlad the Imposter: We tried signing up as a supporter under Vladimir Putin's name. Here's how he might look as a supporter


    Nigel Farage has been accused of allowing “fake members” to join his Brexit Party – as the Mirror signed up as Vladimir Putin.
    The revelation shows how the party could be opening the door to millions in donations from foreign sources.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farages-brexit-party-lets-16063819

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
    The dark side of Nigel Farage's populist pitch
    The Brexit Party leader shows his contempt for voters by refusing to give straight answers to straight questions



    Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage did not like being held to account for his past views


    A few years ago any politician who repeatedly lied, was a serial adulterer and who refused to reveal his or her financial backers would have been hounded from public office.

    It is a sign of how standards have changed that what was deemed unacceptable is now not just tolerated but regarded as the path to success.

    With populists the normal rules do not apply.

    Those who have the haziest relationship with the truth are hailed as straight talkers.

    Dry, workmanlike politicians are smeared as the establishment while chancers such as Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage, who could not come from more establishment backgrounds, are praised for being “genuine” characters.


    Nigel Farage was evasive and confrontational on the Andrew Marr show

    When asked if he still wanted to privatise the NHS, was still a climate change denier and still admired Vladimir Putin he was evasive and then confrontational.

    The anti-establishment politician who supposedly tells it like it is was more slippery than an eel in a tub of cooking oil.

    Instead of giving a direct answer he attacked the BBC for being the “enemy.”

    When Marr then questioned him about his party’s manifesto, Farage said he did not have a manifesto because he associated such documents with lies.

    No doubt millions of people will vote for the Brexit Party on May 23.

    But they may want to ask themselves if a Labour, Lib Dem or Conservative acted so shamelessly, avoided giving straight answers and twisted the truth so repeatedly , would they be deserving of their vote?


    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/dark-side-nigel-farages-populist-15611110




  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,701
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