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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937

























    The Times focuses on the long-awaited launch of Boris Johnson's Conservative Party leadership campaign - but says it is likely to be "overshadowed" by today's cross-party attempt to stop a no-deal Brexit.
    The Daily Telegraph points out Sir Oliver Letwin - an ally of Mr Johnson's rival, Michael Gove - is lending his support to the plans to block a no deal departure.
    The paper says it will bring back memories of the 2016 leadership race, when Mr Gove sabotaged Mr Johnson's hopes on the day he was due to launch his campaign.
    The Irish Times covers a report, commissioned by Northern Ireland's Department of Economy, which warns about the impact of a no-deal Brexit on trade on the island of Ireland.
    It concludes "just-in time delivery" models will become impossible for some businesses, and "prohibitive" costs will be imposed on others.
    Germany's Der Spiegel outlines four problems a no-deal would cause from the EU's perspective - chief among them being that "the trust would be gone."
    One analyst suggests that would mean no trade negotiations between the EU and UK for years - with a "devastating impact" on the British economy.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-48603885





  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    The Tory contest shows that the Brexiters’ dream is dying before their very eyes

    They once thought leaving the EU would work wonders. Now they don’t care what it achieves as long as it is done



    Tory leadership contenders. ‘Candidates are being judged not by any probability of success in taking the UK out of the EU, but by the ability to comfort fellow Tories that there is life for their party on the other side, once the deed is done’


    Brexit is the reason the Conservatives are choosing a new leader, yet the competition has become a race to change the subject. Candidates are being judged not by any probability of success in taking the UK out of the EU, but by the ability to comfort fellow Tories that there is life for their party on the other side, once the deed is done.
    How to get there is a side issue.
    Boris Johnson is the frontrunner because he is a master of misdirection – the conjuring technique for steering an audience’s eyes away from sleight of hand, deception passed off as magic. The whole “Boris” persona – carefully careless hair and linguistic prestidigitation – is a vaudevillian trick that Johnson plays on British politics, manipulating debate away from his lying incompetence, idleness, philandering self-obsession and intellectual vacuity.
    Johnson’s only credentials for the leadership are a charismatic energy that makes grassroots Tories feel good, and their belief that this power extends to other voters. It is a nebulous proposition (and an electorally questionable one) unrelated and ill-suited to the job of completing Brexit.
    But it is also a pitch that Johnson’s rivals struggle to defeat, since none of them has a more credible plan for getting Britain out of the European Union before the 31 October deadline. Their manifestos are all based on the same rhetorical pivot – a gymnastic manoeuvre that launches off from the current intractable situation and lands with a flourish in a place where Brexit has already been “delivered” to a grateful nation. There is a missing middle section in the routine that involves contact with other countries and parliament.


    This has been the most stubborn, parochial delusion in Tory thinking on Brexit: the belief that it is an internal party matter; that solutions can be cooked up on the backbenches and dictated to the EU. In that view, Theresa May’s failing was not her lack of fluency in the language of European interests but her refusal to explain British demands loudly enough at the concessions counter in Brussels.
    That misperception sabotaged diplomacy during the article 50 negotiations, and is now feeding complacency about a no-deal Brexit. The Tory contenders who claim to be relaxed about that scenario trade in two vast falsehoods. One is that willingness to rip up draft treaties and renege on financial commitments somehow makes a country more credible in international negotiations. The other is that going through with such a threat hastens the day when Britain can sign free-trade deals elsewhere.
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    In reality, the first calls that any prime minister would make within hours of a no-deal Brexit are not to Washington but to Brussels. The topic would not be chlorinated chicken imports but averting a crisis at Dover and patching together ad-hoc legal arrangements to sustain the inward flow of vital goods. The balance of power in that conversation would not be on the British side. That is why some continental politicians are sadly coming round to the idea that no deal might be the only way to jolt UK politics into a clearer-eyed appraisal of the country’s needs regarding European markets, and what that costs.

    The overwhelming EU preference is to avoid a messy breakdown in cross-Channel relations, but hope of a late realism surge inside the Conservative party is dwindling. Tory members might not mind that the ministerial careers of Johnson or Dominic Raab were marked by self-defeating bombast and ostentatious ignorance, but those who met them in the international arena are less indulgent.
    While Brexit is still the driving force in British politics, it is no longer a living programme for government
    “Brexit is dead,” one EU diplomat told me recently. Surprised by the bluntness of this assertion, I countered that it was very much alive. The clarification came back: yes, obviously it could still happen, and on the worst possible terms, but viewed from the outside, intellectually, as a proposition based on the original 2016 arguments for leaving the EU, the debate is over. Not even the most nationalistic parties in other member states contemplate taking Euroscepticism to the lengths taken in Britain.


    It is true that the candidates to be our next prime minister are struggling to connect the imperative of getting out of the EU with any tangible benefits to follow. Even hardliners whose most cherished prize is a trade deal with the US looked awkward last week during Donald Trump’s visit, when the conversation turned to predatory private sector designs on the NHS. The economic case, once so confident, has shrivelled into a defensive ball: the pain can be minimised. In the very best-case scenario, there is a smooth transition, and the whole process feels benignly pointless, until the downsides become visible.
    Meanwhile, none of the tax cuts or spending pledges spewing out of the leadership contest would be forbidden under EU rules. Esther McVey, the most radical Eurosceptic in the race, would cut foreign aid and give cash to schools and the police. She doesn’t need permission from Brussels to do that and never did, although it might be trickier in a fiscal emergency caused by the no-deal rupture she is relaxed about pursuing. McVey, like Raab, is prepared to dissolve parliament if it stood in the way.
    That wild notion is symptomatic of the way Tory mania has mutated, from a belief that Brexit can work wonders, to a state of not really caring what it achieves as long as it is done. Then the search for alternative miracle cures to the nation’s ailments can begin. Deep down, the majority of Conservative MPs know that the whole enterprise is a warehouse full of snake oil. So there is a twisted logic in giving the sales job to Johnson, their most talented charlatan.



    While Brexit is still the driving force in British politics, it is no longer a living programme for government. The Tories are trapped between pressure to complete it at any cost – a force applied with wrecking relish by Nigel Farage – and some residual understanding that to do it on Farage’s terms would be a surrender to madness. It is the same old Ukip agenda that has harried the Tories for years. Half of the leadership candidates are following it like Norman Bates, bullied by his mother in Hitchcock’s Psycho. They say it is an irresistible force, but it is a kind of sinister, internal derangement. The Brexit they crave, one that unites party and nation without ruin or rancour, is already dead.
    That might not stop the next prime minister inflicting something called Brexit on the country, but it is getting harder. There is only so long that a government can parade a corpse and ask the public to admire it. Tories can dress it up in different costumes, stick a Boris-style wig on it, spray it with perfume, but the idea itself has started to putrefy. Its complexion has turned sallow.
    None of the candidates acknowledges it, but there is a peculiar, nasty smell emanating from their contest. It is the project that has defined their party and British government for the last three years, rotting under our noses.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/11/tory-contest-brexiters-leaving-eu
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    lucy4 said:

    HAYSIE said:

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    TheEdge949 Posts: 445Member
    May 30






    Asked if healthcare would be part of the deal, he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show: "I think probably the entire economy, in a trade deal all things that are traded will be on the table."

    Mr Johnson also said chlorinated chicken - which is permitted under American regulations but banned in the EU - was "completely safe".


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/donald-trump-nhs-trade-deal-woody-johnson-matt-hancock-a8940861.html

    Chlorinated chicken: ‘Dangerous’ practices at major US plant stoke fears of contaminated food in UK after Brexit
    Channel 4’s ‘Dispatches’ exposes danger of cross-contamination with deadly bacteria – because of poor standards outlawed by EU membership


    The undercover probe by Channel 4 laid bare the danger of cross-contamination with the deadly bacteria salmonella and campylobacter, because of poor standards outlawed by the EU.



    Nevertheless, the US has made clear it will demand the UK accept chemical-washed poultry in any trade deal – and Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, has suggested a ban will be impossible.


    * Piles of chicken left on conveyor belts for long periods of time, at the risk of cross contamination.

    * Boxes of chicken stacked on top of each other – which could also cause cross-contamination.
    * Workers touching raw chicken with bare hands – while one cleared drains with gloved hands, merely washing the gloves before going back to touching raw chicken.
    * Drains blocked with chicken – while pieces of and innards lay on the floor and water leaked from machinery.

    * Flooded and broken floors where “bacteria could breed”, an EU meat safety expert warned.
    * A worker having three fingers amputated, after being asked to operate a machine they had not been trained to use.



    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-us-uk-food-poultry-practices-brexit-eu-regulation-a8942331.html

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAMpJ9Yr56Y

    Brexit: The Hidden Danger of Chlorinated Chicken. With Stephen Fry



    I think the point you are missing is that lower standards are allowed in the USA.

    Chlorine washing is meant to counteract these lower standards.

    The fact that a UK factory is breaching EU standards is criminal, but is not an argument.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    American food standards like chlorine washed chicken, and hormone fed beef, are unacceptable to the EU, as are chickens that are processed illegally in the UK.


    Good to see the EU always keeping to their strict standards...
    This was an EU conspiracy?
    I didn't say it was an EU conspiracy,my point is you've highlighted 'chlorinated chicken' as a threat to a post brexit UK. When in fact,as I've already mentioned,we are in as much danger from our own dubious standards currently being used in this country and beyond by our EU partners.Perhaps we should first get our own house in order before preaching to others.
    I worry about you sometimes.

    The horsemeat scandal was perpetrated by criminals that were breaking the law.
    You cant just blame the EU for every crime committed in Europe.
    The difference is that the USA have much lower standards regarding food.
    The reason they chlorine wash chicken is because it is processed to a much lower standard, than that which is acceptable to the EU.
    Hormone fed beef is not appetising for me.
    Any trade deal with the USA, will involve us accepting these lower standards, and Americans firms getting involved with the NHS.

    So leaving the EU, and doing a trade deal with the USA means we accept lower standards, and limit our trade with the EU.


    There's no need to worry about me,thank you.
    You can't blame brexit for every problem/difficult situation that happens in the country.
    My original point was that you're concerning yourself with America's food hygiene standard,when it's been proven time and time again that our own standards fall way short what's deemed acceptable. Have a read up about '2 Sisters Food Group' to see how just one of many British companies continued to flout EU laws and supply chicken to the public which could've done with a good 'chlorine wash'.
    These are the facts.

    The EU have passed legislation to protect consumers.
    Every country has this legislation.

    Each individual member country is responsible, for enforcing its laws.
    Agreed

    There is not an EU police force.
    Not yet.

    I am not blaming Brexit for every problem that we have, only the problems that Brexit will cause.
    In your opinion.

    You cant blame the EU for UK companies flouting the law.
    Plus EU countries flouting the law.

    The EU set fairly high standards when it comes to food. American standards are much lower in comparison.
    They may set high standards but where's the proof that American standards are much lower?

    Future trade will the EU will involve our alignment with their standards. The day we start importing inferior standard food from the USA, this trade will stop. That is a fact.
    Where is the proof that American food is so much inferior?

    These are not facts but your own anti-brexit opinions.

    Britain faces food poisoning outbreaks and a repeat of the horsemeat scandal after local councils reduce standards checks because of budget cuts
    Collapse in standards checks could mean more food poisoning outbreaks
    Report revealed only 37% of standard checks were carried out in 2017-2018
    The checks are designed to ensure that the food is what it claims it is





    Britain faces a repeat of the horsemeat scandal and more fatal food poisoning outbreaks following a collapse in the number of standards checks, it is claimed.
    A report published by the National Audit Office today reveals that only 37 per cent of standards checks – designed to ensure food is what it says it is – were carried out in 2017-18.
    At the same time, some councils are failing to carry out legally required hygiene checks. This is putting people at risk from bugs such as listeria, which was blamed for the recent deaths of three people who ate contaminated sandwiches served at two hospitals in the North West.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7130859/Britain-faces-food-poisoning-outbreaks-repeat-horsemeat-scandal.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Brexit: No-deal border checks 'will be needed'



    The Republic of Ireland would have to build border inspection posts if it wanted to continue importing food from Northern Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit, a report has concluded.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48602075
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Brexit: Leo Varadkar warns of Brexit deal 'miscalculation'



    It is a "terrible political miscalculation" for UK politicians to believe they can get a better Brexit deal, the Irish PM has said.
    The Brexit deadline was pushed back to October after MPs rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's withdrawal agreement three times.
    Taoiseach Leo Varadkar was also critical of how the British government has approached the Brexit negotiations.
    He said that many thought Ireland would "fall into line" and leave the EU too.
    "We didn't and we are not," said Mr Varadkar, speaking in the Dáil (Irish parliament) on Tuesday.
    "And some thought that when push came to shove that Ireland would be abandoned, that EU unity would break, and they were wrong about that."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48602072
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Brexit: Leaked cabinet note admits UK not ready for no-deal exit on October 31, blowing hole in Boris Johnson leadership pledge



    It will take “six to eight months” to build up supplies of medicines for a no-deal Brexit, a leaked cabinet note says – undermining Boris Johnson’s threat to crash out of the EU on 31 October.
    The warning says the pharmaceutical industry needs that period of help from the government “to ensure adequate arrangements are in place to build stockpiles of medicines”.
    It also says that it would take “at least 4-5 months” to make traders ready for the new border checks that might be required, including incentives to register for fresh schemes.
    Read more: Johnson dodges question on cocaine use (The Independent)
    The note was revealed by The Financial Times as Mr Johnson – the overwhelming favourite to succeed Theresa May – launched his campaign on a pledge to leave the EU on 31 October “deal or no deal”.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-leaked-cabinet-note-admits-uk-not-ready-for-no-deal-exit-on-october-31-blowing-hole-in-boris-johnson-leadership-pledge/ar-AACLH7A?ocid=spartanntp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    edited June 2019
    TheEdge949 said:

    » show previous quotes
    If you bump into your mate at Wetherspoons, maybe you could ask him why our car manufacturers are suddenly closing their factories, laying off staff, manufacturing new models elsewhere, relocating to Europe, or setting up in Singapore.
    The predictable answer will be nothing to do with Brexit.
    Or maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    MPs defeat motion seeking to block no-deal Brexit



    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/keir-starmer-urges-mps-back-143335583.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    HAYSIE said:

    I clearly remember Boris Johnsons post Brexit speech, where he pointed to the fact that a deal would be no problem, as the Germans would wish to continue to sell us their BMWs, the Italians their Prosecco, etc.

    So whats happened since?

    He now seems to feel it necessary to threaten non payment of our bill, to force them into a better deal.

    How could he think that this threat may make the EU more amenable?

    How could a better deal help solve the Irish border problem?

    The problem causing the current logjam, is the backstop, rather than any future trading relationship.

    This problem belongs to our side.

    We put in place the Good Friday Agreement, we value The Union, and wont separate NI.

    Threatening to welsh on our bill solves nothing, least of all the Irish border problem.

    The EU will just take us to court for the money.

    Any threats are unlikely to help negotiations, and will have the opposite effect.


    Nothing to do with Brexit?


    The Ford factory in Bridgend closing, and the loss of thousands more jobs, has nothing to do with Brexit.

    Although Fords have previously voiced concerns over post Brexit trading.

    The Bridgend plant manufactures engines.

    These engines are exported to other plants in Europe, and some of the finished cars are imported into the UK.

    So under WTO rules they would be forced to pay a tariff on the engine export, and a further tariff on the finished car import.

    Why would any manufacturer choose to do this, if it could be avoided?

    Would any manufacturer choose to increase their costs?

    How many more factories need to close, or relocate, even though it is nothing to do with Brexit, before leave voters admit that they have made a huge mistake?

    These are good jobs that are being lost rather than zero hour contract jobs.

    Many more jobs are being lost in the supply chains.

    Many communities will be adversely affected.

    Nothing to do with Brexit my ar5e.



    Major UK firm to slash 'thousands of jobs' in Brexit move overseas





    A major UK manufacturing firm is expected to announce thousands of job losses as it moves jobs abroad because of Brexit.
    A representative of Britain’s manufacturing trade body Make UK said one large firm would soon confirm a huge wave of redundancies.
    Seamus Nevin, chief economist at Make UK, said it would spark “several thousand job losses,” but said a non-disclosure agreement prevented him revealing the name of the company or further details on its plans.
    He made the claim as part of stark message to MPs on parliament’s Brexit committee, where he was giving evidence on the impact of a no-deal Brexit on Wednesday morning.
    He warned many major firms no longer regarded the UK as a stable place to operate, and were increasingly tempted to move jobs elsewhere.

    https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/major-uk-firm-to-slash-thousands-of-jobs-in-brexit-move-overseas-102949823.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    edited June 2019































    There is extensive coverage of the launch of Boris Johnson's campaign to be the next Conservative leader.
    The Daily Telegraph columnist Allison Pearson says he presented himself as "Prime Minister in Waiting Boris" - delivering a "rallying" speech which was "masterly at times".
    She notes there was "no more faux-hapless ruffling of that haystack mop, which, like it's owner, was trimmed and tamed".
    The Daily Mirror is less impressed - describing him as an "egomanic" and "the lying threat to Britain".
    "Who's a snorty boy then?" asks its headline, as the paper says he "ducked" questions about whether he had, in the past, taken cocaine.
    The Times reports on claims that Mr Johnson has privately told senior Brexiteers he will leave open the option of suspending parliament to force through a no-deal.
    The paper says a source from a rival campaign claims he made the comments to the European Research Group of Tory backbenchers.
    Mr Johnson's spokesman tells the paper he is "instinctively averse" to the option.










  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    No-deal Brexit will be 'commercial suicide', manufacturers tell MPs



    A no-deal Brexit will be “commercial suicide” with tens of thousands of jobs already lost in the UK because of the political uncertainty, manufacturing representatives have said.
    As Boris Johnson broke cover to launch his Conservative party leadership campaign, in which he repeated his pledge to leave the EU by 31 October, industry representatives were telling MPs that crashing out of the bloc was “economic vandalism”.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/no-deal-brexit-will-be-commercial-suicide-manufacturers-tell-mps/ar-AACM8zk?ocid=spartanntp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Brexit: What would happen if UK decided not to pay the £39bn divorce bill to the EU?
    Boris Johnson's gambit could backfire


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-divorce-bill-uk-not-pay-what-happens-tory-leadership-contest-w-a8952581.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Tory spending plans will strip billions from poorest areas after Brexit and give cash to richest regions, study finds
    Wales, the southwest and northeast of England will be biggest losers, it calculates – with funds diverted to wealthy London and the southeast




    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-brexit-funding-regions-tory-leadership-contest-structural-funds-a8952186.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Boris Johnson Brexit plan difficult or impossible, says Philip Hammond
    Chancellor casts doubt on viability of Tory leadership favourite’s promises



    Philip Hammond said many of the Tory leadership candidates may be pledging things they could not deliver.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/12/boris-johnson-brexit-plan-ifficult-or-impossible-hammond

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Brexit betrayal: Rees-Mogg suggests Boris could abandon Brexit promises - ‘it’s a big if’
    BREXITEER Boris Johnson’s Brexit promises have been questioned in an indictment of his Tory Leadership credentials on ITV’s Peston.


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1139801/Brexit-news-tory-leadership-boris-johnson-latest-update-rees-mogg-brexit-party-leave-eu
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Grieve pledges to bring down British Government to stop no deal Brexit – 'Won't hesitate'
    DOMINIC GRIEVE has admitted he would be willing to quit the Conservative Party and to "bring down the Government," to avoid a no deal Brexit.




    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1139648/Brexit-news-Grieve-no-deal-UK-EU-withdrawal-Parliament-vote-Labour-latest

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Esther McVey’s wild past: The shocking photos of PM hopeful she won’t want you to see
    ESTHER MCVEY is one of the final 10 Tory candidates in the race to become the next Prime Minister. Old photos of Esther from the early 2000s show a different side to the Brexiteer she probably wouldn’t want you to see.


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1139570/esther-mcvey-photos-tory-leadership-next-UK-prime-minister
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
    Boris Johnson could be ‘shortest lived Prime Minister in history’ suggests ITV’s Peston
    BORIS JOHNSON could be the shortest lasting Prime Minister in UK history according to a shock suggestion from ITV political editor Robert Peston.




    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1139814/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-Prime-Minister-ITV-Robert-Peston-EU-exit-general-election
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,937
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