Why do these silly Brexiteers keep appearing on tv, and maintaining that everyone knew what they voted for in the referendum, and we don't need a second vote. When the evidence suggests that the deal we allegedly voted for, seems to change almost on a daily basis.
You could ask 10 politicians for their interpretation of what the Leave Vote was in favour of, they would all suggest different versions, and all of them would be claiming to be right.
I wonder what would have happened in the referendum if they had put an additional question on the ballot paper. Do you want the border to go on the island of Ireland, or in the Irish Sea?
If anyone comes on this forum whinging about non elected representatives, I am just going to laugh my head off. I am watching our elected representatives embarrassing themselves on a daily basis. Why do the interviewers let them off so lightly most of the time? I am a great fan of Andrew Neil. He wont stand for any nonsense, or bs, and is often seen battering politicians who haven't a clue regarding what they are meant to be talking about.
Labour MPs appear daily to tell us about their 6 tests that they intend to apply to any Brexit deal, prior to supporting it.
One of the tests is that we must have exactly the same benefits that we currently have. This, of course will be impossible. The EU have stated the obvious many times, which is that a non member country will not ever be able to get the same benefits as a member country, never, ever, ever. I think you would struggle to find a leave voter who really thought we might get the same benefits.
Why have 6 tests, the other 5 are pointless?
Yet they appear daily talking about their 6 stupid tests.
Theresa May continues negotiations based on her Chequers proposal. The EU don't like it, the ERG which has around 80 MPs in her own party and wont support it, now even the Remainers in her own party are against it. So the Labour Party cant support it because of the 6 tests, the Liberals wont support it, nor will the SNP. The DUP wont support the Backstop, because of the border.
So what is the point of these negotiations?
They are a complete waste of time and money.
We are now spending billions of pounds just in case there is no deal, as if there are not better things to be spending this money on.
That could be another bus advert, £billions on no deal preparations just in case.
It was predictable from day one that the EU would insist on a border to protect their Single Market.
The obvious position for this border would undoubtedly be between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
So I think that they have been quite flexible in allowing us to put this border in the Irish Sea.
They seem to care about stuff like the smuggling of goods, and people, that we don't seem to be bothered about.
On day one it was obvious that if we left the Customs Union, and Single Market we would have to have a border.
What was also obvious it that this border would have to be on the island of Ireland, or in the Irish Sea. Where else could it be?
The DUP wont have either, so where do they want it to go?
Theresa May has said from day one that she wont have either border or stay in the Customs Union or the Single Market. When she said this what was the plan?
Two and a half years of negotiations have changed absolutely nothing in this respect.
Why cant those involved accept that it is a choice between staying in the Customs Union, and Single Market, or having a border. It is one or the other.
If we get the hump and walk away there will be a border.
Maybe the referendum ballot paper should have insisted on Leave voters stating their Irish border preference? There could have been 3 choices. 1 Between Ireland and Northern Ireland, jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement. 2 In the Irish Sea, splitting up the UK. 3 Rethink and vote Remain.
Brexit is about to collapse, and already Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg are running away from the consequences of their actions
Downing Street has announced that a draft agreement between UK and EU negotiators has been agreed. It would appear to contain within it much that is unsatisfactory to Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, and everybody else who has spent much of the last two and half years lying about the fantasies of Brexit. So down they came, to a hastily arranged news conference of sorts, to fire the starting gun on what already looks set to be the most shameful chapter of the Brexit story so far. Which is the people whose utterly shameless lies have landed the country in this unimaginable mess, seeking to put as much distance as possible between their actions and the inevitable consequences of them. There was Jacob Rees-Mogg, saying that this deal will make the UK “not a vassal state but a slave state”, when the words he was looking for were, “Sorry. This is my fault. Several weeks ago, Mr Rees-Mogg called the TV cameras to a committee room in the Commons, where he waved about an utterly risible document described as the “World Trade Deal”. In the morning he’d claimed that crashing out of the EU with no deal and trading with the rest of the world on WTO terms would be worth “£1.1trn” to the UK economy. By lunchtime, he’d said he had no idea if that claim could possibly be true Faced with a choice between reality and taking ownership of his own outrageous lies, it is no surprise the latter should find itself beyond the pale. Next there was Boris Johnson, to announce that, “This is just about as bad as it could possibly be.” And he’s right. There will be no bumper weekly payout for the NHS. There will be no bonanza of free trade deals, with America, with Australia, with New Zealand, India, China, Canada and everybody else, because most of those countries have already objected even to the terms on which Britain is seeking to rejoin the World Trade Organisation. There is just reality, a concept which, being the identical twin of the truth, Boris Johnson has never made even the faintest acquaintance. If he thinks this is a failure on Theresa May’s part, there was, of course, not even a moment’s pause to reflect on whether any of it could be his fault. Not even whether it is his more than two decades worth of lying about the European Union finally coming back to haunt him. Theresa May, perhaps, might have fared better in these negotiations had she not lost her majority at the last general election. Whether she might have done better in that contest if her most high profile minister at the time had not spent the last year as a walking advert for government by rolling embarrassment is a question there is barely time to consider.
For now Theresa May’s compromise is all we have. When it fails to survive contact with the liars and their lies, there should be no ambiguity whatsoever about who is to blame, however much ambiguity they try to insert.
'Small country' Britain is under an 'illusion' about Brexit, says ECB exec
Britain’s hopes of negotiating preferential international trade deals after Brexit are an “illusion”, the European Central Bank’s chief economist has warned.
Brexit deal could break up the UK: PM faces furious backlash over Brussels agreement
Theresa May’s Brexit deal could lead to the break-up of the UK, the Democratic Unionist Party has warned. The party’s chief whip, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, warned the deal would in the ‘long term’ leave Northern Ireland closely aligned with the EU and could increase support for Scottish independence, saying ‘this is not the right Brexit’. He also said that his party ‘doesn’t fear a general election’. His comments came amid a Brexiteer backlash that threatens to destabilise May.
The DUP want anything that keeps NI closer to Britain and further from Ireland. This is no doubt going to stir up them, but I really hope we manage to focus on what is best for the UK as a whole, and NI as a whole, rather than just the DUP.
Progress appears to be finally being made. If the Remainers don't like it, Rees-Mogg/Johnson don't like it, and the Labour party don't like it, then it probably is what we all need ie a compromise, rather than 1 faction winning.
The DUP want anything that keeps NI closer to Britain and further from Ireland. This is no doubt going to stir up them, but I really hope we manage to focus on what is best for the UK as a whole, and NI as a whole, rather than just the DUP.
Progress appears to be finally being made. If the Remainers don't like it, Rees-Mogg/Johnson don't like it, and the Labour party don't like it, then it probably is what we all need ie a compromise, rather than 1 faction winning.
I find the way in which our elected representative have acted has completely let us down. The referendum was clearly about whether or not we left the EU.
As it stands we are leaving in March next year. The conditions under which we leave, should be those that are the least damaging for our country.
Yet all those involved are pursuing their own interests rather than those of the country.
Theresa May has ignored any attempt to negotiate best outcome for the country, with a view to satisfying the different factions of her own party, and prioritised not losing her own job. The result was always going to be a giraffe deal, when it should have been a horse.
The Brexiteers see this deal as not leaving, but as of March next year we will have left and this cannot therefore be true.
The DUP don't like it because NI will be treated slightly differently from the rest of the UK. When the truth is they already are. They should go back to work, and do what they are being paid to do. Why doesn't someone ask them where they would like the border to go?
The Remainers aren't happy and are describing it as the worst of all worlds.
The Labour Partys response has been pathetic. We have 6 tests...………………………….
The one thing that all the little factions have in common is that they are keen to be critics, yet can provide no solutions.
The Withdrawal Agreement could have been negotiated in half an hour. Ten minutes to work out how much we owe them. Ten minutes to say that we intended to give EU citizens the same rights that they currently have, in return for similar being offered to Brits living in the EU. Another ten minutes to decide that we would prefer an Irish Sea border as far as a Backstop is concerned. Our elected representatives have taken almost 2 years on this so far.
If Theresa May had set out with the idea of getting the best deal, which did the least damage to the country, we wouldn't be where we are now.
Or maybe it is just not possible to get a Brexit that makes many people happy.
I don't see any winners in this.
Assuming we leave, it will be a decision that will come back and bite us.
EU says it ‘will retain all control’ under Theresa May’s Brexit deal, leaked note shows
Brussels will “retain all the controls” over swathes of British regulation under the Brexit deal struck by Theresa May, EU negotiators have told member states. A leaked diplomatic note from a meeting between Commission officials and ambassadors from the EU’s 27 countries reveals how Brussels views the “level playing field” rules signed up to by the prime minister
Brexit deal news: Theresa May to face Cabinet after draft divorce deal agreed with Brussels LIVE
Theresa May will today face her Cabinet to discuss a draft Brexit deal agreed by UK and EU negotiators. The announcement on Tuesday that a draft text had been agreed was met with open hostility from Tory Brexiteers and Mrs May's Democratic Unionist Party allies, and scepticism from Remain supporters. Now the full Cabinet is due to meet at 2pm for a crunch showdown to discuss the contents of the text
Don't be fooled — the biggest Brexit battle starts now
The world has been watching with bated breath over any semblance of a breakthrough on Brexit talks. And on Tuesday (13 November), the biggest development was made — an actual draft text was agreed upon between UK prime minister Theresa May and her counterparts in the European Union. With the fears of a no-deal Brexit growing increasingly likely — the worst scenario for the global economy, not just for the UK — everyone has been eager to see what kind of deal was possible. After all, the delicate conundrum over what to do with the Irish border, how to appease strident Brexiteers that want to stop the freedom of movement of people (the biggest reason for voting for leaving the bloc), while also making sure that Britain’s economy doesn’t fall off a cliff by killing off the capability of the meaty financial services sector, seemed almost impossible. And because negotiations have almost been farcical since Britain decided to leave the EU in June 2016, everyone has been desperate to see any kind of progress and therefore could be fooled in thinking the hardest part is over. The battle has only just begun.
Just been listening to Andrew Neil interviewing a Labour MP. Another elected representative? The reason why Brexiteers don't want to be members of The Customs Union, is because this would prevent us from doing our own trade deals with other countries, and because we would be Non EU members we would have to accept all the rules with no input, and not get access to the EU trade deals with other countries. The Labour MP, once he got past we have these 6 tests...……………………….., became a stuttering wreck, and claimed that the Labour Party aspired to be members of "A" rather than "The" Customs Union, which would miraculously give us all the benefits we have now, a say in any future rules, and allow us to do trade deals elsewhere.
If they got elected on the strength of this bs, it would prove to be very disappointing for those that had voted for them.
The fact that we have such professional, and well informed, elected representatives looking after our interests makes me feel really warm inside, and confident about our future.
'Back our PM or it will be like a civil war': Tensions rise as ministers thrash out Brexit deal
Responding to questions about a second referendum, Justice Minister Rory Stewart said: “If we try to move for one of the extreme options that either the hard Brexiteers are proposing or the kind of option that you seem to be suggesting, we would have something akin to a civil war for the next 20 years in this country.
One of the pundits, Christina Patterson, covering the following days papers on Sky News the other night made me think of you, and your bs. She was adamant that one of her friends that lives in Italy fully expects to die if we leave with no deal, as the treatment she is currently receiving for her breast cancer, will no longer be available.
The cabinet has backed a draft withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU, Theresa May has said. The prime minister was speaking after what she said was a "long, detailed and impassioned debate" in a five-hour cabinet meeting. She said it was a "decisive step" in the progress of Brexit, and would allow the agreement to be finalised.
The UK economy could face a long-run hit of up to 8 per cent of GDP in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the International Monetary Fund has warned. That’s the equivalent of around £6,000 per British household.
Comments
When the evidence suggests that the deal we allegedly voted for, seems to change almost on a daily basis.
You could ask 10 politicians for their interpretation of what the Leave Vote was in favour of, they would all suggest different versions, and all of them would be claiming to be right.
Do you want the border to go on the island of Ireland, or in the Irish Sea?
I am watching our elected representatives embarrassing themselves on a daily basis. Why do the interviewers let them off so lightly most of the time?
I am a great fan of Andrew Neil. He wont stand for any nonsense, or bs, and is often seen battering politicians who haven't a clue regarding what they are meant to be talking about.
Labour MPs appear daily to tell us about their 6 tests that they intend to apply to any Brexit deal, prior to supporting it.
One of the tests is that we must have exactly the same benefits that we currently have. This, of course will be impossible. The EU have stated the obvious many times, which is that a non member country will not ever be able to get the same benefits as a member country, never, ever, ever.
I think you would struggle to find a leave voter who really thought we might get the same benefits.
Why have 6 tests, the other 5 are pointless?
Yet they appear daily talking about their 6 stupid tests.
Theresa May continues negotiations based on her Chequers proposal. The EU don't like it, the ERG which has around 80 MPs in her own party and wont support it, now even the Remainers in her own party are against it. So the Labour Party cant support it because of the 6 tests, the Liberals wont support it, nor will the SNP. The DUP wont support the Backstop, because of the border.
So what is the point of these negotiations?
They are a complete waste of time and money.
We are now spending billions of pounds just in case there is no deal, as if there are not better things to be spending this money on.
That could be another bus advert, £billions on no deal preparations just in case.
The obvious position for this border would undoubtedly be between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
So I think that they have been quite flexible in allowing us to put this border in the Irish Sea.
They seem to care about stuff like the smuggling of goods, and people, that we don't seem to be bothered about.
On day one it was obvious that if we left the Customs Union, and Single Market we would have to have a border.
What was also obvious it that this border would have to be on the island of Ireland, or in the Irish Sea. Where else could it be?
The DUP wont have either, so where do they want it to go?
Theresa May has said from day one that she wont have either border or stay in the Customs Union or the Single Market. When she said this what was the plan?
Two and a half years of negotiations have changed absolutely nothing in this respect.
Why cant those involved accept that it is a choice between staying in the Customs Union, and Single Market, or having a border. It is one or the other.
If we get the hump and walk away there will be a border.
It is absolute nonsense.
1 Between Ireland and Northern Ireland, jeopardising the Good Friday Agreement.
2 In the Irish Sea, splitting up the UK.
3 Rethink and vote Remain.
Downing Street has announced that a draft agreement between UK and EU negotiators has been agreed. It would appear to contain within it much that is unsatisfactory to Jacob Rees-Mogg, Boris Johnson, and everybody else who has spent much of the last two and half years lying about the fantasies of Brexit.
So down they came, to a hastily arranged news conference of sorts, to fire the starting gun on what already looks set to be the most shameful chapter of the Brexit story so far. Which is the people whose utterly shameless lies have landed the country in this unimaginable mess, seeking to put as much distance as possible between their actions and the inevitable consequences of them.
There was Jacob Rees-Mogg, saying that this deal will make the UK “not a vassal state but a slave state”, when the words he was looking for were, “Sorry. This is my fault.
Several weeks ago, Mr Rees-Mogg called the TV cameras to a committee room in the Commons, where he waved about an utterly risible document described as the “World Trade Deal”. In the morning he’d claimed that crashing out of the EU with no deal and trading with the rest of the world on WTO terms would be worth “£1.1trn” to the UK economy. By lunchtime, he’d said he had no idea if that claim could possibly be true
Faced with a choice between reality and taking ownership of his own outrageous lies, it is no surprise the latter should find itself beyond the pale.
Next there was Boris Johnson, to announce that, “This is just about as bad as it could possibly be.”
And he’s right. There will be no bumper weekly payout for the NHS. There will be no bonanza of free trade deals, with America, with Australia, with New Zealand, India, China, Canada and everybody else, because most of those countries have already objected even to the terms on which Britain is seeking to rejoin the World Trade Organisation.
There is just reality, a concept which, being the identical twin of the truth, Boris Johnson has never made even the faintest acquaintance.
If he thinks this is a failure on Theresa May’s part, there was, of course, not even a moment’s pause to reflect on whether any of it could be his fault. Not even whether it is his more than two decades worth of lying about the European Union finally coming back to haunt him. Theresa May, perhaps, might have fared better in these negotiations had she not lost her majority at the last general election. Whether she might have done better in that contest if her most high profile minister at the time had not spent the last year as a walking advert for government by rolling embarrassment is a question there is barely time to consider.
For now Theresa May’s compromise is all we have. When it fails to survive contact with the liars and their lies, there should be no ambiguity whatsoever about who is to blame, however much ambiguity they try to insert.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-is-about-to-collapse-and-already-boris-johnson-and-jacob-rees-mogg-are-running-away-from-the-consequences-of-their-actions/ar-BBPFw7k?ocid=spartandhp
Britain’s hopes of negotiating preferential international trade deals after Brexit are an “illusion”, the European Central Bank’s chief economist has warned.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/small-country-britain-illusion-brexit-says-ecb-exec-120839881.html
Theresa May’s Brexit deal could lead to the break-up of the UK, the Democratic Unionist Party has warned.
The party’s chief whip, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson, warned the deal would in the ‘long term’ leave Northern Ireland closely aligned with the EU and could increase support for Scottish independence, saying ‘this is not the right Brexit’. He also said that his party ‘doesn’t fear a general election’.
His comments came amid a Brexiteer backlash that threatens to destabilise May.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/days-numbered-pm-faces-furious-backlash-brexit-deal-eu-084712571.html?guccounter=1
This is no doubt going to stir up them, but I really hope we manage to focus on what is best for the UK as a whole, and NI as a whole, rather than just the DUP.
Progress appears to be finally being made. If the Remainers don't like it, Rees-Mogg/Johnson don't like it, and the Labour party don't like it, then it probably is what we all need ie a compromise, rather than 1 faction winning.
The referendum was clearly about whether or not we left the EU.
As it stands we are leaving in March next year. The conditions under which we leave, should be those that are the least damaging for our country.
Yet all those involved are pursuing their own interests rather than those of the country.
Theresa May has ignored any attempt to negotiate best outcome for the country, with a view to satisfying the different factions of her own party, and prioritised not losing her own job. The result was always going to be a giraffe deal, when it should have been a horse.
The Brexiteers see this deal as not leaving, but as of March next year we will have left and this cannot therefore be true.
The DUP don't like it because NI will be treated slightly differently from the rest of the UK. When the truth is they already are. They should go back to work, and do what they are being paid to do. Why doesn't someone ask them where they would like the border to go?
The Remainers aren't happy and are describing it as the worst of all worlds.
The Labour Partys response has been pathetic. We have 6 tests...………………………….
The one thing that all the little factions have in common is that they are keen to be critics, yet can provide no solutions.
The Withdrawal Agreement could have been negotiated in half an hour. Ten minutes to work out how much we owe them. Ten minutes to say that we intended to give EU citizens the same rights that they currently have, in return for similar being offered to Brits living in the EU. Another ten minutes to decide that we would prefer an Irish Sea border as far as a Backstop is concerned. Our elected representatives have taken almost 2 years on this so far.
If Theresa May had set out with the idea of getting the best deal, which did the least damage to the country, we wouldn't be where we are now.
Or maybe it is just not possible to get a Brexit that makes many people happy.
I don't see any winners in this.
Assuming we leave, it will be a decision that will come back and bite us.
Tony Blair is to hit out at Jeremy Corbyn's "abject refusal" to lead the UK "out of the Brexit nightmare".
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/tony-blair-it-is-gut-wrenching-that-labour-is-not-calling-for-second-brexit-vote/ar-BBPGIfs?ocid=spartandhp
Brussels will “retain all the controls” over swathes of British regulation under the Brexit deal struck by Theresa May, EU negotiators have told member states.
A leaked diplomatic note from a meeting between Commission officials and ambassadors from the EU’s 27 countries reveals how Brussels views the “level playing field” rules signed up to by the prime minister
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/eu-says-it-‘will-retain-all-control’-under-theresa-may’s-brexit-deal-leaked-note-shows/ar-BBPH1cm?ocid=spartandhp
Theresa May will today face her Cabinet to discuss a draft Brexit deal agreed by UK and EU negotiators.
The announcement on Tuesday that a draft text had been agreed was met with open hostility from Tory Brexiteers and Mrs May's Democratic Unionist Party allies, and scepticism from Remain supporters.
Now the full Cabinet is due to meet at 2pm for a crunch showdown to discuss the contents of the text
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-deal-news-theresa-may-to-face-cabinet-after-draft-divorce-deal-agreed-with-brussels-live/ar-BBPGRok?ocid=spartandhp
The world has been watching with bated breath over any semblance of a breakthrough on Brexit talks. And on Tuesday (13 November), the biggest development was made — an actual draft text was agreed upon between UK prime minister Theresa May and her counterparts in the European Union.
With the fears of a no-deal Brexit growing increasingly likely — the worst scenario for the global economy, not just for the UK — everyone has been eager to see what kind of deal was possible. After all, the delicate conundrum over what to do with the Irish border, how to appease strident Brexiteers that want to stop the freedom of movement of people (the biggest reason for voting for leaving the bloc), while also making sure that Britain’s economy doesn’t fall off a cliff by killing off the capability of the meaty financial services sector, seemed almost impossible.
And because negotiations have almost been farcical since Britain decided to leave the EU in June 2016, everyone has been desperate to see any kind of progress and therefore could be fooled in thinking the hardest part is over. The battle has only just begun.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/dont-fooled-biggest-brexit-battle-starts-now-082451192.html
Another elected representative?
The reason why Brexiteers don't want to be members of The Customs Union, is because this would prevent us from doing our own trade deals with other countries, and because we would be Non EU members we would have to accept all the rules with no input, and not get access to the EU trade deals with other countries.
The Labour MP, once he got past we have these 6 tests...……………………….., became a stuttering wreck, and claimed that the Labour Party aspired to be members of "A" rather than "The" Customs Union, which would miraculously give us all the benefits we have now, a say in any future rules, and allow us to do trade deals elsewhere.
If they got elected on the strength of this bs, it would prove to be very disappointing for those that had voted for them.
The fact that we have such professional, and well informed, elected representatives looking after our interests makes me feel really warm inside, and confident about our future.
Responding to questions about a second referendum, Justice Minister Rory Stewart said: “If we try to move for one of the extreme options that either the hard Brexiteers are proposing or the kind of option that you seem to be suggesting, we would have something akin to a civil war for the next 20 years in this country.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/days-numbered-pm-faces-furious-backlash-brexit-deal-eu-084712571.html?guccounter=1
https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
She was adamant that one of her friends that lives in Italy fully expects to die if we leave with no deal, as the treatment she is currently receiving for her breast cancer, will no longer be available.
Brexit: Cabinet backs draft agreement
The cabinet has backed a draft withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU, Theresa May has said.
The prime minister was speaking after what she said was a "long, detailed and impassioned debate" in a five-hour cabinet meeting.
She said it was a "decisive step" in the progress of Brexit, and would allow the agreement to be finalised.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46215930
The UK economy could face a long-run hit of up to 8 per cent of GDP in the event of a no-deal Brexit, the International Monetary Fund has warned.
That’s the equivalent of around £6,000 per British household.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/imf-says-no-deal-brexit-155300243.html