This is what you said back on this thread a long time ago regarding the Brexit vote :
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
Fact : People have come on to this thread in the early days and tried to put an alternative view to yours and have been shot down in flames because you arrogantly don't think their views are valid . This is why it's been pretty much a one man show
Why on earth do you think I should care about what Bill Cash thinks about The Chancellor?
Are you a Bill Cash fan? Philip Hammond Fan? Happy with his budget?
No, No and unaffected
So do you now have a view on Brexit, or know how you would vote if there was another referendum.
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
Please excuse my non English ‘O Level’ skills but isn’t this a question and not a statement?
Well done on not typing lie btw
It was patently a statement , hence the lack of a question mark . Funny you say you are going through a " horrendous " time , but still have plenty of spare moments to concentrating on trying to point score ..priorities ?
So do you now have a view on Brexit, or know how you would vote if there was another referendum.
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
You need to calm down, I was merely asking you a question.
Perfectly calm here , and i would suggest in future if you are genuinely asking a question , put a question mark after it ! If it is a question , I never said I didn't have views on Brexit , just that it is way too complicated an issue with too many variables to express a view and substantiate it . For those reasons , I would decline a 2nd vote as well ( not that imo that will ever happen anyway ).
This is what you said back on this thread a long time ago regarding the Brexit vote :
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
I stand by both. Many people would agree that a referendum was the wrong way to decide this issue. Many people saw the decision to have a referendum was more to do with healing divisions in the Conservative Party rather than being based on the best interests of the country as a whole. David Cameron was Pro-Europe and was certain that the remain side would win. Winning the referendum would have enabled him to shut his Eurosceptic MPs up once and for all, and kill off UKIP. . So he called for it thinking he couldn't lose.
Lots of people see the result as a protest vote. Where many people that voted to leave did so because they felt unheard, and through what saw as inequalities. In short problems that weren't caused by our EU membership, and problems that will remain after we leave. Your own mate Goldon posted that he was glad we were leaving because someone he knew had lived in a dump for 40 years, and obviously thought that the EU were somehow to blame for this. The vote came after 8 years of austerity measures such as pay freezes, cuts to services etc, and people voted to leave in the hope that it would make them better off. When there was no logical reason to think that this might be true. In fact all evidence points to the fact that they will be worse off after we leave.
I think that once the referendum was called that we all had a responsibility to find out the pros and cons, and vote accordingly.
It has been described as the most momentous decision we have had to take since the Second World War.
It will affect our children, grandchildren, and generations to come.
It could still end up a massive disaster.
So please don't expect me to sympathetically listen to pathetic excuses for not voting.
A much better way of conducting this would have been for The Tory Party to have included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto the fact that we would leave the EU if they were elected. This would have enabled us to vote for them if we were in favour of this, and their other policies, and not if we weren't. This would have given them the mandate if they had won, to just get us out without all this nonsense.
Look at the mess, we might have another 3 or 4 years of this to come. We might have a Constitutional Crisis the week after next.
As it stands we leave in March next year, come what may.
Nobody even knows what will happen if they lose the vote in Parliament on 11th December.
The Tories might sack Theresa May, does the new leader start again?
The EU say its done, and wont reopen negotiations on The Withdrawal Agreement, or The Backstop?
We might have an election?
This would probably mean The Tories appointing a new leader?
What if Labour wins, whats the plan then?
What if we have a second referendum, more excuses for not voting?
If my grandkids ever ask me about the resultant damage at least I will be able to hold my head up and tell them I didn't vote for it.
Fact : People have come on to this thread in the early days and tried to put an alternative view to yours and have been shot down in flames because you arrogantly don't think their views are valid . This is why it's been pretty much a one man show
So do you now have a view on Brexit, or know how you would vote if there was another referendum.
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
You need to calm down, I was merely asking you a question.
Perfectly calm here , and i would suggest in future if you are genuinely asking a question , put a question mark after it ! If it is a question , I never said I didn't have views on Brexit , just that it is way too complicated an issue with too many variables to express a view and substantiate it . For those reasons , I would decline a 2nd vote as well ( not that imo that will ever happen anyway ).
I am not going to check if I included a question mark, but after reading it you must have known it was a question. I was genuinely asking if as a result of reading some articles that you had formed an opinion. The second vote is gaining in popularity, and more MPs are seeing it as maybe the only way out of the mess. John McDonnell seemed to be more in favour in an interview yesterday.
Why on earth do you think I should care about what Bill Cash thinks about The Chancellor?
Are you a Bill Cash fan? Philip Hammond Fan? Happy with his budget?
No, No and unaffected
So do you now have a view on Brexit, or know how you would vote if there was another referendum.
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
Please excuse my non English ‘O Level’ skills but isn’t this a question and not a statement?
Well done on not typing lie btw
It was patently a statement , hence the lack of a question mark . Funny you say you are going through a " horrendous " time , but still have plenty of spare moments to concentrating on trying to point score ..priorities ?
This is what you said back on this thread a long time ago regarding the Brexit vote :
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
I stand by both. Many people would agree that a referendum was the wrong way to decide this issue. Many people saw the decision to have a referendum was more to do with healing divisions in the Conservative Party rather than being based on the best interests of the country as a whole. David Cameron was Pro-Europe and was certain that the remain side would win. Winning the referendum would have enabled him to shut his Eurosceptic MPs up once and for all, and kill off UKIP. . So he called for it thinking he couldn't lose.
Lots of people see the result as a protest vote. Where many people that voted to leave did so because they felt unheard, and through what saw as inequalities. In short problems that weren't caused by our EU membership, and problems that will remain after we leave. Your own mate Goldon posted that he was glad we were leaving because someone he knew had lived in a dump for 40 years, and obviously thought that the EU were somehow to blame for this. The vote came after 8 years of austerity measures such as pay freezes, cuts to services etc, and people voted to leave in the hope that it would make them better off. When there was no logical reason to think that this might be true. In fact all evidence points to the fact that they will be worse off after we leave.
I think that once the referendum was called that we all had a responsibility to find out the pros and cons, and vote accordingly.
It has been described as the most momentous decision we have had to take since the Second World War.
It will affect our children, grandchildren, and generations to come.
It could still end up a massive disaster.
So please don't expect me to sympathetically listen to pathetic excuses for not voting.
A much better way of conducting this would have been for The Tory Party to have included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto the fact that we would leave the EU if they were elected. This would have enabled us to vote for them if we were in favour of this, and their other policies, and not if we weren't. This would have given them the mandate if they had won, to just get us out without all this nonsense.
Look at the mess, we might have another 3 or 4 years of this to come. We might have a Constitutional Crisis the week after next.
As it stands we leave in March next year, come what may.
Nobody even knows what will happen if they lose the vote in Parliament on 11th December.
The Tories might sack Theresa May, does the new leader start again?
The EU say its done, and wont reopen negotiations on The Withdrawal Agreement, or The Backstop?
We might have an election?
This would probably mean The Tories appointing a new leader?
What if Labour wins, whats the plan then?
What if we have a second referendum, more excuses for not voting?
If my grandkids ever ask me about the resultant damage at least I will be able to hold my head up and tell them I didn't vote for it.
You can't stand by both of your statements , it's contradictory ! Completely laughable . As far as not having any sympathy with people exercising their democratic right to abstain from voting , for **** good reasons is bizarre . No one knew exactly what sort of deal was going to be brokered , it's akin to asking someone to form an opinion on the basis that several options are going to happen , but we can't guarantee which one .
Fact : People have come on to this thread in the early days and tried to put an alternative view to yours and have been shot down in flames because you arrogantly don't think their views are valid . This is why it's been pretty much a one man show
Any examples that don't include Goldon?
Plenty , just go back through all the posts , you have plenty of time on your hands !
This is what you said back on this thread a long time ago regarding the Brexit vote :
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
I stand by both. Many people would agree that a referendum was the wrong way to decide this issue. Many people saw the decision to have a referendum was more to do with healing divisions in the Conservative Party rather than being based on the best interests of the country as a whole. David Cameron was Pro-Europe and was certain that the remain side would win. Winning the referendum would have enabled him to shut his Eurosceptic MPs up once and for all, and kill off UKIP. . So he called for it thinking he couldn't lose.
Lots of people see the result as a protest vote. Where many people that voted to leave did so because they felt unheard, and through what saw as inequalities. In short problems that weren't caused by our EU membership, and problems that will remain after we leave. Your own mate Goldon posted that he was glad we were leaving because someone he knew had lived in a dump for 40 years, and obviously thought that the EU were somehow to blame for this. The vote came after 8 years of austerity measures such as pay freezes, cuts to services etc, and people voted to leave in the hope that it would make them better off. When there was no logical reason to think that this might be true. In fact all evidence points to the fact that they will be worse off after we leave.
I think that once the referendum was called that we all had a responsibility to find out the pros and cons, and vote accordingly.
It has been described as the most momentous decision we have had to take since the Second World War.
It will affect our children, grandchildren, and generations to come.
It could still end up a massive disaster.
So please don't expect me to sympathetically listen to pathetic excuses for not voting.
A much better way of conducting this would have been for The Tory Party to have included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto the fact that we would leave the EU if they were elected. This would have enabled us to vote for them if we were in favour of this, and their other policies, and not if we weren't. This would have given them the mandate if they had won, to just get us out without all this nonsense.
Look at the mess, we might have another 3 or 4 years of this to come. We might have a Constitutional Crisis the week after next.
As it stands we leave in March next year, come what may.
Nobody even knows what will happen if they lose the vote in Parliament on 11th December.
The Tories might sack Theresa May, does the new leader start again?
The EU say its done, and wont reopen negotiations on The Withdrawal Agreement, or The Backstop?
We might have an election?
This would probably mean The Tories appointing a new leader?
What if Labour wins, whats the plan then?
What if we have a second referendum, more excuses for not voting?
If my grandkids ever ask me about the resultant damage at least I will be able to hold my head up and tell them I didn't vote for it.
You can't stand by both of your statements , it's contradictory ! Completely laughable . As far as not having any sympathy with people exercising their democratic right to abstain from voting , for **** good reasons is bizarre . No one knew exactly what sort of deal was going to be brokered , it's akin to asking someone to form an opinion on the basis that several options are going to happen , but we can't guarantee which one .
I am not sure why you think it is contradictory.
I think that a referendum was the wrong way to deal with the issue. Once the powers that be decided that there would be one, I think everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Your explanation of democratic rights is peculiar. For instance I don't think black people in The USA, or the Suffragettes in this country ever thought they were fighting for the right to not vote.
You wont be aware, but the ballot papers in the referendum had two boxes, one being leave, the other being remain. You had to tick one or the other. That was it. You weren't asked to specify what sort of deal or anything else.
What has happened since has merely supported my view that it was an unsuitable issue for a referendum.
I am flabbergasted that you think that any democracy could work if nobody voted.
Fact : People have come on to this thread in the early days and tried to put an alternative view to yours and have been shot down in flames because you arrogantly don't think their views are valid . This is why it's been pretty much a one man show
Any examples that don't include Goldon?
Plenty , just go back through all the posts , you have plenty of time on your hands !
You made the statement I was just asking you to back it up.
Fact : People have come on to this thread in the early days and tried to put an alternative view to yours and have been shot down in flames because you arrogantly don't think their views are valid . This is why it's been pretty much a one man show
This is what you said back on this thread a long time ago regarding the Brexit vote :
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
I stand by both. Many people would agree that a referendum was the wrong way to decide this issue. Many people saw the decision to have a referendum was more to do with healing divisions in the Conservative Party rather than being based on the best interests of the country as a whole. David Cameron was Pro-Europe and was certain that the remain side would win. Winning the referendum would have enabled him to shut his Eurosceptic MPs up once and for all, and kill off UKIP. . So he called for it thinking he couldn't lose.
Lots of people see the result as a protest vote. Where many people that voted to leave did so because they felt unheard, and through what saw as inequalities. In short problems that weren't caused by our EU membership, and problems that will remain after we leave. Your own mate Goldon posted that he was glad we were leaving because someone he knew had lived in a dump for 40 years, and obviously thought that the EU were somehow to blame for this. The vote came after 8 years of austerity measures such as pay freezes, cuts to services etc, and people voted to leave in the hope that it would make them better off. When there was no logical reason to think that this might be true. In fact all evidence points to the fact that they will be worse off after we leave.
I think that once the referendum was called that we all had a responsibility to find out the pros and cons, and vote accordingly.
It has been described as the most momentous decision we have had to take since the Second World War.
It will affect our children, grandchildren, and generations to come.
It could still end up a massive disaster.
So please don't expect me to sympathetically listen to pathetic excuses for not voting.
A much better way of conducting this would have been for The Tory Party to have included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto the fact that we would leave the EU if they were elected. This would have enabled us to vote for them if we were in favour of this, and their other policies, and not if we weren't. This would have given them the mandate if they had won, to just get us out without all this nonsense.
Look at the mess, we might have another 3 or 4 years of this to come. We might have a Constitutional Crisis the week after next.
As it stands we leave in March next year, come what may.
Nobody even knows what will happen if they lose the vote in Parliament on 11th December.
The Tories might sack Theresa May, does the new leader start again?
The EU say its done, and wont reopen negotiations on The Withdrawal Agreement, or The Backstop?
We might have an election?
This would probably mean The Tories appointing a new leader?
What if Labour wins, whats the plan then?
What if we have a second referendum, more excuses for not voting?
If my grandkids ever ask me about the resultant damage at least I will be able to hold my head up and tell them I didn't vote for it.
You can't stand by both of your statements , it's contradictory ! Completely laughable . As far as not having any sympathy with people exercising their democratic right to abstain from voting , for **** good reasons is bizarre . No one knew exactly what sort of deal was going to be brokered , it's akin to asking someone to form an opinion on the basis that several options are going to happen , but we can't guarantee which one .
I am not sure why you think it is contradictory.
I think that a referendum was the wrong way to deal with the issue. Once the powers that be decided that there would be one, I think everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Your explanation of democratic rights is peculiar. For instance I don't think black people in The USA, or the Suffragettes in this country ever thought they were fighting for the right to not vote.
You wont be aware, but the ballot papers in the referendum had two boxes, one being leave, the other being remain. You had to tick one or the other. That was it. You weren't asked to specify what sort of deal or anything else.
What has happened since has merely supported my view that it was an unsuitable issue for a referendum.
I am flabbergasted that you think that any democracy could work if nobody voted.
I didn't give an explanation of democratic rights , I merely stated that it is a democratic right to choose not to vote . 72 % of the U.K. also followed suit .
Semantics regarding the fact that you weren't asked to specify which deal you got ..people were invited to vote , not knowing exactly what was going to be on the table , thats the cold hard truth of the matter .
As for the other part , once again , you are trying your level best to put words in my mouth ( seems to be your m.o. ) and failing .
If the vote had been in favour of no deal , you wouldn't even be saying the referendum shouldn't have been offered .
Comments
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
" That's exactly why it shouldn't have been left to the general public."
This is what you directed at me earlier : " The responsible thing to do in the referendum, would have been to have bothered to find out the pros and cons, and voted. Maybe we are leaving because people like you couldn't be bothered to find out any information and didn't vote."
I would suggest that you are slightly contradicting yourself. Perhaps you would like to clarify , are you happy for people to have had the vote regardless of spin , misinformation and lies from BOTH sides or do you back up the highlighted comment of yours at the top ?
Please excuse my non English ‘O Level’ skills but isn’t this a question and not a statement?
Well done on not typing lie btw
Well done on not typing lie btw
It was patently a statement , hence the lack of a question mark . Funny you say you are going through a " horrendous " time , but still have plenty of spare moments to concentrating on trying to point score ..priorities ?
So do you now have a view on Brexit, or know how you would vote if there was another referendum.
Never said that , stop misrepresenting what I have clearly typed !
You need to calm down, I was merely asking you a question.
You need to calm down, I was merely asking you a question.
Perfectly calm here , and i would suggest in future if you are genuinely asking a question , put a question mark after it ! If it is a question , I never said I didn't have views on Brexit , just that it is way too complicated an issue with too many variables to express a view and substantiate it . For those reasons , I would decline a 2nd vote as well ( not that imo that will ever happen anyway ).
I stand by both.
Many people would agree that a referendum was the wrong way to decide this issue. Many people saw the decision to have a referendum was more to do with healing divisions in the Conservative Party rather than being based on the best interests of the country as a whole. David Cameron was Pro-Europe and was certain that the remain side would win. Winning the referendum would have enabled him to shut his Eurosceptic MPs up once and for all, and kill off UKIP.
.
So he called for it thinking he couldn't lose.
Lots of people see the result as a protest vote. Where many people that voted to leave did so because they felt unheard, and through what saw as inequalities. In short problems that weren't caused by our EU membership, and problems that will remain after we leave. Your own mate Goldon posted that he was glad we were leaving because someone he knew had lived in a dump for 40 years, and obviously thought that the EU were somehow to blame for this.
The vote came after 8 years of austerity measures such as pay freezes, cuts to services etc, and people voted to leave in the hope that it would make them better off. When there was no logical reason to think that this might be true. In fact all evidence points to the fact that they will be worse off after we leave.
I think that once the referendum was called that we all had a responsibility to find out the pros and cons, and vote accordingly.
It has been described as the most momentous decision we have had to take since the Second World War.
It will affect our children, grandchildren, and generations to come.
It could still end up a massive disaster.
So please don't expect me to sympathetically listen to pathetic excuses for not voting.
A much better way of conducting this would have been for The Tory Party to have included in their 2015 General Election Manifesto the fact that we would leave the EU if they were elected. This would have enabled us to vote for them if we were in favour of this, and their other policies, and not if we weren't. This would have given them the mandate if they had won, to just get us out without all this nonsense.
Look at the mess, we might have another 3 or 4 years of this to come. We might have a Constitutional Crisis the week after next.
As it stands we leave in March next year, come what may.
Nobody even knows what will happen if they lose the vote in Parliament on 11th December.
The Tories might sack Theresa May, does the new leader start again?
The EU say its done, and wont reopen negotiations on The Withdrawal Agreement, or The Backstop?
We might have an election?
This would probably mean The Tories appointing a new leader?
What if Labour wins, whats the plan then?
What if we have a second referendum, more excuses for not voting?
If my grandkids ever ask me about the resultant damage at least I will be able to hold my head up and tell them I didn't vote for it.
Perfectly calm here , and i would suggest in future if you are genuinely asking a question , put a question mark after it ! If it is a question , I never said I didn't have views on Brexit , just that it is way too complicated an issue with too many variables to express a view and substantiate it . For those reasons , I would decline a 2nd vote as well ( not that imo that will ever happen anyway ).
I am not going to check if I included a question mark, but after reading it you must have known it was a question.
I was genuinely asking if as a result of reading some articles that you had formed an opinion.
The second vote is gaining in popularity, and more MPs are seeing it as maybe the only way out of the mess.
John McDonnell seemed to be more in favour in an interview yesterday.
Why have continual rows over punctuation?
As far as not having any sympathy with people exercising their democratic right to abstain from voting , for **** good reasons is bizarre . No one knew exactly what sort of deal was going to be brokered , it's akin to asking someone to form an opinion on the basis that several options are going to happen , but we can't guarantee which one .
Are you really saying that you couldn't tell that the above was a question because it didn't have a question mark?
Are you really saying that you couldn't tell that the above was a question because it didn't have a question mark?
I think that a referendum was the wrong way to deal with the issue. Once the powers that be decided that there would be one, I think everyone had a responsibility to vote.
Your explanation of democratic rights is peculiar. For instance I don't think black people in The USA, or the Suffragettes in this country ever thought they were fighting for the right to not vote.
You wont be aware, but the ballot papers in the referendum had two boxes, one being leave, the other being remain. You had to tick one or the other. That was it. You weren't asked to specify what sort of deal or anything else.
What has happened since has merely supported my view that it was an unsuitable issue for a referendum.
I am flabbergasted that you think that any democracy could work if nobody voted.
Semantics regarding the fact that you weren't asked to specify which deal you got ..people were invited to vote , not knowing exactly what was going to be on the table , thats the cold hard truth of the matter .
As for the other part , once again , you are trying your level best to put words in my mouth ( seems to be your m.o. ) and failing .
If the vote had been in favour of no deal , you wouldn't even be saying the referendum shouldn't have been offered .