It’s nice that the anti-vaccine brigade can both simultaneously spout its inefficacy and benefit from the fact that others have been vaccinated against a disease.
It’s nice that the anti-vaccine brigade can both simultaneously spout its inefficacy and benefit from the fact that others have been vaccinated against a disease.
The question was designed for a debate at a time where people will be making a big choice. It may or may not be as big a choice or last as long as BREXIT though
Do we think there will be a successful (for the population rather than for the pharma co that sells it) Covid 19 vaccine? There isn't one for SARS and MERS which have been around for years.
We've known about SARS for years, but it hasn't been around for years. There's not been any known cases since the 2003 outbreak.
Clearly if there's been no SARS cases, it makes no sense to produce vaccines for it. Even if there was a future outbreak, we already know that the virus can be eradicated fairly quickly and without many deaths simply by quarantining, since only people with symptoms are infectious.
As for MERS, it's infecting somewhere in the region of 200 people a year, mostly in Saudi Arabia, and killing around one third of those people. However, most studies estimate R0 < 1 for MERS. Untreated, it's not even causing exponential growth in the number of cases through human-to-human transmission.
Ultimately there would be very little demand for a vaccine for any infection that is infecting so few people. The reason there's no vaccine is most likely due to there being no financial incentive for a pharmaceutical company to develop one, rather than people being unable.
"There's no vaccine for these and they're also Coronaviruses" sounds like a reasonable argument to make. However, in the case of SARS and MERS, there has always been very little incentive to develop a vaccine, while there is (on current evidence) a massive incentive to develop a vaccine for COVID-19.
Therefore, using SARS and MERS to suggest there won't be a vaccine for COVID-19 is flawed. It certainly doesn't help that the media are churning out countless scaremongering articles and using this as one of their supporting arguments.
Will there be a COVID-19 vaccine? Yeah there probably will be eventually, because there's a ton of money in it for all the pharmaceutical companies.
"Collective Evolution", the known 9/11 conspiracy theorists and for-profit clickbait website and a 5 year old article with 2 comments on the Daily Mail. Colour me an anti-vaxxer
Always had an issue with the terms conspiracy theory/theorist et all. It has a habit of turning people off and shutting down any healthy debate.
Calling out extremely wacky and inaccurate claims as conspiracy theories is vital to ensuring a debate stays healthy
"Collective Evolution", the known 9/11 conspiracy theorists and for-profit clickbait website and a 5 year old article with 2 comments on the Daily Mail. Colour me an anti-vaxxer
Always had an issue with the terms conspiracy theory/theorist et all. It has a habit of turning people off and shutting down any healthy debate.
Calling out extremely wacky and inaccurate claims as conspiracy theories is vital to ensuring a debate stays healthy
You may have guessed already that I am pro-vaccination.
Many killer diseases have been eradicated and marginalised by vaccines.
Some of those diseases are unfortunately making comebacks thanks to drops in uptake in some areas.
Vaccines protect lives and their development, testing and implementation are under constant regulation and review.
They are the second most beneficial public health intervention (after clean water and sanitation).
On the specific issue of Covid-19, there is no guarantee that a vaccine will be proven effective and if so when it will be available or what the strategy will be for rolling it out.
You may have guessed already that I am pro-vaccination.
Many killer diseases have been eradicated and marginalised by vaccines.
Yes and hard to disagree with the above.
My belief in vaccinations for the past few years, from flu jab time, has been let the bodies immune system do what it's supposed to do. Work to protect itself.
If you are fit and healthy then you will get over the virus. Common sense when comes to distancing of course with the more vulnerable, the world will change quite a bit after the isolation is over.
If the vaccine is best for the more vulnerable then they should go for it if it helps them overall.
Would say, I do not like the idea of one vaccination fits all though - same with things like diet, weight, vitamin supplements etc. Can't roll out 20 different vaccines possibly.
Some will likely need the vaccination while others may not. Not many will have the full information at their fingertips so it's best guess stuff or listening to the experts. I still would like the choice and not be cow-towed into accepting the vaccine if it's not something I believe is best for my family or myself.
Effectiveness is another thing as well and has been brought up once or twice in the thread. Interesting stuff!
"Collective Evolution", the known 9/11 conspiracy theorists and for-profit clickbait website and a 5 year old article with 2 comments on the Daily Mail. Colour me an anti-vaxxer
Always had an issue with the terms conspiracy theory/theorist et all. It has a habit of turning people off and shutting down any healthy debate.
Calling out extremely wacky and inaccurate claims as conspiracy theories is vital to ensuring a debate stays healthy
"Collective Evolution", the known 9/11 conspiracy theorists and for-profit clickbait website and a 5 year old article with 2 comments on the Daily Mail. Colour me an anti-vaxxer
Always had an issue with the terms conspiracy theory/theorist et all. It has a habit of turning people off and shutting down any healthy debate.
Calling out extremely wacky and inaccurate claims as conspiracy theories is vital to ensuring a debate stays healthy
Who runs/owns/edits and how are things funded on snopes?
Could be a good starting point.
The only facts these days, in these times, are that there are no "facts"
There are no facts, apart from the facts that are facts
The only facts are the facts themselves
What are the facts?
Facts not theories. You learn facts.
The fact of the matter is facts are facts. Does that cover it?
I'm confusing myself now
Don’t tell the media that. 90% of their air time would have been a total waste of time. Facts are only facts when they are factually proven. Stats etc are on the move all the time. It’s difficult to nail one down.🔍
I did get that radio garden app. Zoomed into a station from New York State. There was a so called expert saying diabetes suffers need to check their keytone levels constantly, even when they feel just slightly under the weather. Obese folks,( the worlds full of them) are difficult to treat as they need to be turned over,which when they are on their fronts, puts their vital organs under a great amount of stress. The idea being to tap the back to try and release some of the infection, then get the patient to cough it up. Quite a difficult task with a tube in their throats. I’m not anti vaccinations, I just think finding medicines and the correct treatment will come first on this virus. That’s why I’m not fussed if they actually find one. Regarding being obese,so many are just that. It’s ironic how some of those in that category are likely out clapping the NHS. When what they really want is to over indulge with Greggs produce, and get back to the pub and neck all night, when it’s ok to do so. They should take this opportunity to sort themselves out.
"Collective Evolution", the known 9/11 conspiracy theorists and for-profit clickbait website and a 5 year old article with 2 comments on the Daily Mail. Colour me an anti-vaxxer
Always had an issue with the terms conspiracy theory/theorist et all. It has a habit of turning people off and shutting down any healthy debate.
Calling out extremely wacky and inaccurate claims as conspiracy theories is vital to ensuring a debate stays healthy
Who runs/owns/edits and how are things funded on snopes?
Could be a good starting point.
The only facts these days, in these times, are that there are no "facts"
There are no facts, apart from the facts that are facts
The only facts are the facts themselves
What are the facts?
Facts not theories. You learn facts.
The fact of the matter is facts are facts. Does that cover it?
I'm confusing myself now
Don’t tell the media that. 90% of their air time would have been a total waste of time. Facts are only facts when they are factually proven. Stats etc are on the move all the time. It’s difficult to nail one down.🔍
I did get that radio garden app. Zoomed into a station from New York State. There was a so called expert saying diabetes suffers need to check their keytone levels constantly, even when they feel just slightly under the weather. Obese folks,( the worlds full of them) are difficult to treat as they need to be turned over,which when they are on their fronts, puts their vital organs under a great amount of stress. The idea being to tap the back to try and release some of the infection, then get the patient to cough it up. Quite a difficult task with a tube in their throats. I’m not anti vaccinations, I just think finding medicines and the correct treatment will come first on this virus. That’s why I’m not fussed if they actually find one. Regarding being obese,so many are just that. It’s ironic how some of those in that category are likely out clapping the NHS. When what they really want is to over indulge with Greggs produce, and get back to the pub and neck all night, when it’s ok to do so. They should take this opportunity to sort themselves out.
So fat people shouldn't show their appreciation of the NHS?
Obese people can indulge in anything they like,and they generally do. Nobody becomes obese overnight. The reference is to the fact that an obese patient requires more staff ( resources ) to treat in severe cases. Try turning over a 20+stone dead weight in a bed whilst the patient is hooked up on various medical devices. And doing it a numerous amount of times. Of course , you can be obese at a far lighter weight than at 20+stone.
@chilling. Mate whilst I respect your right to an opinion and also your right to express it. As far as the obese showing our appreciation of the N.H.S. goes you're talking bollox.
I'm obese and my showing support isn't hypocritical or unwarranted. Maybe next you want to stop smokers from showing support, then maybe those with mental illness.
There are many different ways we as people put extra burden on the health service. It should not preclude us from being able to appreciate and support them.
Oh and think on this, I can always diet, you I fear will always talk bollox.
@chilling. Mate whilst I respect your right to an opinion and also your right to express it. As far as the obese showing our appreciation of the N.H.S. goes you're talking bollox.
I'm obese and my showing support isn't hypocritical or unwarranted. Maybe next you want to stop smokers from showing support, then maybe those with mental illness.
There are many different ways we as people put extra burden on the health service. It should not preclude us from being able to appreciate and support them.
Oh and think on this, I can always diet, you I fear will always talk bollox.
@chilling. Mate whilst I respect your right to an opinion and also your right to express it. As far as the obese showing our appreciation of the N.H.S. goes you're talking bollox.
I'm obese and my showing support isn't hypocritical or unwarranted. Maybe next you want to stop smokers from showing support, then maybe those with mental illness.
There are many different ways we as people put extra burden on the health service. It should not preclude us from being able to appreciate and support them.
Oh and think on this, I can always diet, you I fear will always talk bollox.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and as you are aware , I don’t hesitate on giving mine. I never stated that obese folks can’t applaud the NHS, of course they can. Whether somebody smokes, drinks too much, or takes drugs etc, is often no that obvious to the eye. Somebody that is obese is very easy to determine. Being obese nearly always leads to multiple problems that end up at the front door of the NHS. Instead of folks moaning about funding in the NHS, it would be better for folks to look after themselves and not burden the NHS with something that is self inflicted. There should be a system in place to stop folks from getting obese. For instance, being made to see their GP once a year. Then solutions after that, which I won’t go into at this time. If somebody wants to be a burden on the NHS , they can, it’s a free country. That’s not a good way forward to lead to a better NHS though. My link was with the difficulty in treating obese patients in hospital, who have covid. If you think it’s ok for everybody to have the right to being obese, then that’s probably held by the rest of the nation too, but it’s not mine. If folks gloss over all the needless self inflicted conditions that the NHS has to deal with, you might find it would run a **** of a lot smoother.
I would expect somebody who regards themselves as obese to defend themselves. But I think you’re missing the point with the applauding.
Adolf ..... don't mention the war, wasn't such a bad bloke. !
The first Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded in 1901 to Adolf von Behring, of Germany. Adolf Behring, was a physiologist who received the 1901 Nobel Prize in Medicine, the first one awarded, for his discovery of a diphtheria antitoxin. He was widely known as a "saviour of children," as diphtheria used to be a major cause of child death. The 2020 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine has not been awarded yet. It will be announced on Monday 5 October, at the earliest. Could it be for COVID-19 vaccine?. !
Answers
There are no answers right now and the old adage time will tell seems fitting.
Clearly if there's been no SARS cases, it makes no sense to produce vaccines for it. Even if there was a future outbreak, we already know that the virus can be eradicated fairly quickly and without many deaths simply by quarantining, since only people with symptoms are infectious.
As for MERS, it's infecting somewhere in the region of 200 people a year, mostly in Saudi Arabia, and killing around one third of those people. However, most studies estimate R0 < 1 for MERS. Untreated, it's not even causing exponential growth in the number of cases through human-to-human transmission.
Ultimately there would be very little demand for a vaccine for any infection that is infecting so few people. The reason there's no vaccine is most likely due to there being no financial incentive for a pharmaceutical company to develop one, rather than people being unable.
"There's no vaccine for these and they're also Coronaviruses" sounds like a reasonable argument to make. However, in the case of SARS and MERS, there has always been very little incentive to develop a vaccine, while there is (on current evidence) a massive incentive to develop a vaccine for COVID-19.
Therefore, using SARS and MERS to suggest there won't be a vaccine for COVID-19 is flawed. It certainly doesn't help that the media are churning out countless scaremongering articles and using this as one of their supporting arguments.
Will there be a COVID-19 vaccine? Yeah there probably will be eventually, because there's a ton of money in it for all the pharmaceutical companies.
What are the facts?
You learn facts.
Many killer diseases have been eradicated and marginalised by vaccines.
Some of those diseases are unfortunately making comebacks thanks to drops in uptake in some areas.
Vaccines protect lives and their development, testing and implementation are under constant regulation and review.
They are the second most beneficial public health intervention (after clean water and sanitation).
On the specific issue of Covid-19, there is no guarantee that a vaccine will be proven effective and if so when it will be available or what the strategy will be for rolling it out.
Yes and hard to disagree with the above.
My belief in vaccinations for the past few years, from flu jab time, has been let the bodies immune system do what it's supposed to do. Work to protect itself.
If you are fit and healthy then you will get over the virus. Common sense when comes to distancing of course with the more vulnerable, the world will change quite a bit after the isolation is over.
If the vaccine is best for the more vulnerable then they should go for it if it helps them overall.
Would say, I do not like the idea of one vaccination fits all though - same with things like diet, weight, vitamin supplements etc. Can't roll out 20 different vaccines possibly.
Some will likely need the vaccination while others may not. Not many will have the full information at their fingertips so it's best guess stuff or listening to the experts. I still would like the choice and not be cow-towed into accepting the vaccine if it's not something I believe is best for my family or myself.
Effectiveness is another thing as well and has been brought up once or twice in the thread. Interesting stuff!
I'm confusing myself now
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52717161
Facts are only facts when they are factually proven.
Stats etc are on the move all the time.
It’s difficult to nail one down.🔍
I did get that radio garden app. Zoomed into a station from New York State.
There was a so called expert saying diabetes suffers need to check their keytone levels constantly, even when they feel just slightly under the weather.
Obese folks,( the worlds full of them) are difficult to treat as they need to be turned over,which when they are on their fronts, puts their vital organs under a great amount of stress.
The idea being to tap the back to try and release some of the infection, then get the patient to cough it up. Quite a difficult task with a tube in their throats.
I’m not anti vaccinations, I just think finding medicines and the correct treatment will come first on this virus.
That’s why I’m not fussed if they actually find one.
Regarding being obese,so many are just that.
It’s ironic how some of those in that category are likely out clapping the NHS.
When what they really want is to over indulge with Greggs produce, and get back to the pub and neck all night, when it’s ok to do so.
They should take this opportunity to sort themselves out.
The reference is to the fact that an obese patient requires more staff ( resources ) to treat in severe cases.
Try turning over a 20+stone dead weight in a bed whilst the patient is hooked up on various medical devices. And doing it a numerous amount of times.
Of course , you can be obese at a far lighter weight than at 20+stone.
As far as the obese showing our appreciation of the N.H.S. goes you're talking bollox.
I'm obese and my showing support isn't hypocritical or unwarranted. Maybe next you want to stop smokers from showing support, then maybe those with mental illness.
There are many different ways we as people put extra burden on the health service. It should not preclude us from being able to appreciate and support them.
Oh and think on this, I can always diet, you I fear will always talk bollox.
We can't
I never stated that obese folks can’t applaud the NHS, of course they can.
Whether somebody smokes, drinks too much, or takes drugs etc, is often no that obvious to the eye. Somebody that is obese is very easy to determine.
Being obese nearly always leads to multiple problems that end up at the front door of the NHS.
Instead of folks moaning about funding in the NHS, it would be better for folks to look after themselves and not burden the NHS with something that is self inflicted.
There should be a system in place to stop folks from getting obese.
For instance, being made to see their GP once a year. Then solutions after that, which I won’t go into at this time.
If somebody wants to be a burden on the NHS , they can, it’s a free country.
That’s not a good way forward to lead to a better NHS though.
My link was with the difficulty in treating obese patients in hospital, who have covid.
If you think it’s ok for everybody to have the right to being obese, then that’s probably held by the rest of the nation too, but it’s not mine.
If folks gloss over all the needless self inflicted conditions that the NHS has to deal with, you might find it would run a **** of a lot smoother.
I would expect somebody who regards themselves as obese to defend themselves.
But I think you’re missing the point with the applauding.
The first Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine was awarded in 1901 to Adolf von Behring, of Germany.
Adolf Behring, was a physiologist who received the 1901 Nobel Prize in Medicine, the first one awarded, for his discovery of a diphtheria antitoxin. He was widely known as a "saviour of children," as diphtheria used to be a major cause of child death.
The 2020 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine has not been awarded yet. It will be announced on Monday 5 October, at the earliest. Could it be for COVID-19 vaccine?. !