My issue was with relating the stats to population percentages.
As I said earlier, I wonder how relevant this is.
In many rural areas stop and searches will be few and far between, highly populated by white people, but included in the population totals.
I think it is highly relevant to look at relative population stats as well as absolute numbers. Especially if you combine that with "excess stops" the number of stops where no further action is taken (arrest or charge).
My point was that the overwhelmingly white rural areas which include many very old people will be included in the population figures that the percentages are taken from, despite the fact that they are unlikely to be stopped and searched ever.
This might encourage the police to make more petty arrests, like a small amount of drugs, drunk and disorderly etc. Just to justify the stop.
Rural areas like Dorset perhaps? Where the black population is very low yet the relative stop rate for black people is the highest in the country. Proportionately it is shocking but the overall absolute numbers are small in the context of the UK.
I would agree that Dorset stands out like a sore thumb. The point you make about Merseyside is surely valid elsewhere, where there may be a preponderance of black gangs.
If you were compiling daytime stop and search stats for any particular area, should you deduct those at work, on holiday, or sick, and therefore weren't available for a stop and search.
If you were compiling figures for night time stop and searches, should you deduct the very old, as they are unlikely to be out and about.
I would expect to see age based variations in the stats and for there to be a correlation between age and likelihood of being on the streets, carrying drugs and/or a weapon. A much stronger correlation than skin colour.
I assumed that the stats represented the total population divided into ethnicity, and the percentages that were stopped and searched.
Stopping and searching has always been a controversial issue, and likely to remain a battle that the police will never win.
What do Merseyside do differently?
I do accept that there is racism everywhere, including in the police force.
I am sure that some of the issues you have raised could be addressed by training/re-training, but this would be a long term project.
I think even good training would on its own only scratch the surface. It has to be a top down culture change. Cleveland and Staffordshire seemed to manage it and improved outcomes. A pilot study in London did the same, but for some reason these initiatives seem to fizzle out rather than learned from and rolled out effectively across the country.
I think seeing stop and search as a battle with the police losing is counterproductive. Some areas have proved it is much better achieved by working with the communities who feel unfairly targeted.
Many are in favour of community policing although it seems a thing of the past. Perhaps a casualty of the cuts.
In Merseyside I believe that the organised crime tends to be dominated by white gangs coupled with a relatively low black population for an urban environment.
It seems we actually agree on alot of things. My initial involvement in this thread came from the reactions of people (including you) who appeared to criticise the actions of the black people being stopped and searched more than those of the police officers stopping them.
I thought I had made it clear that I felt that the police had acted unprofessionally, and could have handled both situation better. However I still feel that the actions of both parties after being stopped contributed to the outcome. In the case of Bianca Williams, who will be seen as a role model by many youngsters, her actions could serve as a handbook of how not to behave when being followed, and stopped by the police.
I took a conscious decision to speak out more on such issues. Partly in remembrance of my elder son who was a committed humanitarian and partly in response to #blacklivesmatter and a commentary that it is no longer enough just to not be racist and that it is important to speak out about racism and condemn racist behaviour so that condemnation not acceptance becomes the norm and racist views get marginalised.
I can't prove racial profiling in the cases of Bianca Williams or Ryan Colaco any more than you can disprove it. Hopefully with full evidence of vehicle and bodycam footage before and during the stop an independent review will judge that.
Unfortunately this is Russell's teapot, it's up to you to prove the claim, not up to me to disprove it. As you say, it will be much clearer what's gone on when all available evidence comes to light.
Do you think if a white man in a suit had been driving the same car at the same time they would have been stopped?
Yes, I do. Remember one of the significant factors is them snaking around roads before rejoining the main road. They drove in a suspicious manner when the police were behind them.
In the Bianca Williams case it was a section 60 stop for weapons by a TSG patrolling the area looking for people to stop due to incidents of knife crime.
There was no prior intelligence related to that car or the driver linking them to organised crime. They were driving towards their own home. They were even stopped in their own street.
That's a bit of a stretch, they were asked to stop but then continued their journey until they reached their own street.
Even if it was fair and reasonable to stop the vehicle, why didn't the police follow their own guidelines in how they approached the couple and how they extracted them from the vehicle, handcuffed them and separated them from their baby.
I agree with you here, the police were heavy handed and likely didn't need to use handcuffs. Have said this a few times, post-stop they bungled it.
Blaming the driver and passenger here is senseless. If you are going about your daily business legally and get treated like that then you have a right to complain. Even the Police agree with that as they have apologised.
Complain about their treatment, sure. Complain about the fact they were asked to stop, no. I think it's rational to suggest that their actions aggravated the situation, without saying they deserved what they experienced.
P.S you never answered how I was trolling you and I am also wondering where my "bad faith" is?
I said 'starting to feel like' which is a little softer. All I meant was we seem to be going round in circles because you're misinterpreting my points - which can always be because I'm bad at articulating them - but it felt like I'd tried to be clear a few times yet you seemed to keep coming back almost like Cathy Newman 'so what you're saying is..'. Sorry if you took offence to "bad faith" - just means I got the sense that you weren't interested in trying to find consensus, just to bat away any attempt at trying to rationalise the assertion that this is all a problem of racism.
I'm glad you're speaking up in cases like this, I've also tried to stay out of such discussions in the past but I do feel these days more and more, various activists are pushing a narrative and labelling everything racist/sexist/homophobic to push their agenda. There's a responsibility to find racism where it exists and absolutely get it out of our society, but there's also a responsibility to establish where it doesn't exist but is claimed to exist. Especially when there's a Twitter mob all lined up to get you sacked.
We seem to be taking more turns here than Bianca Williams trying to avoid traffic lights to get to a lunch appointment on time.
I will try to summarise.
There is much I agree with you on @Phantom66. In particular that the police have a difficult job, that they haven't handled these cases well post-stop, and that they should be looking to build trust among the communities they serve.
But I also feel that the couple could have acted differently and got a different outcome, namely pulling over when asked, and politely and calmly complying. Shouting 'we haven't done anything' isn't how to behave in this situation.
I disagree there is evidence of racial profiling in the case of deciding to stop Williams and partner.
How do you prove that racial profiling did not take place when you stop a black person? Well, you could concentrate on the other contributing factors that led to the stop.
They clearly object to being stopped, she starts her Tweet with "They say the UK isn't racist". Throwing up racism claims like this onto the internet and all over the news, and saying you want to 'go down the legal route' because of it, further undermines the trust that we agree the police should be looking to build (as of course, does their handling of it post-stop).
There are no doubt problems here. Racist cops being one of them I'd need more evidence for. The evidence that race played a part here is simply that this is a black couple and the police force have had other problems with race.
What's going to happen if the independent investigation concludes this wasn't racism/racial profiling? No doubt there will be outcries that this proves that the system is corrupt. This is the real problem, that the systems that we have to rely on to get justice are undermined by a mob who have already made their minds up.
If it's found there was racial issues at play here, then the police involved should get what they deserve. But what they deserve right now is for people to look critically at the facts of the individual case.
On stop-and-search more generally, what would be an acceptable level of stops of innocent people to catch one criminal? Yes you want to minimise unnecessary stops to avoid people being put out, and to save police time etc. Perhaps stop-and-search is so ineffective and distressing to the innocent that it's not worth pursuing. I especially understand the angst of people who are stopped repeatedly - perhaps because they're still travelling in that same car, at that same time of night through that area which is their routine etc - if it ticked the boxes before it will tick the boxes now. How do you get round that? Hold data on past incorrect stops so they can look up the number plate and see they'd questioned them before and were happy? Which innocent people would be happy for this information to be stored 'on their record'? Maybe have more bobbies-on-the-beat so they actually get to know people (difficult in largely populated areas though).
Who'd want to be an officer trying to uphold the law under such scrutiny?
I'll try to be brief and in doing so I probably won't answer all of your points directly.
I can't prove racial profiling in the cases of Bianca Williams or Ryan Colaco any more than you can disprove it. Hopefully with full evidence of vehicle and bodycam footage before and during the stop an independent review will judge that.
Do you think if a white man in a suit had been driving the same car at the same time they would have been stopped?
In the Bianca Williams case it was a section 60 stop for weapons by a TSG patrolling the area looking for people to stop due to incidents of knife crime.
There was no prior intelligence related to that car or the driver linking them to organised crime. They were driving towards their own home. They were even stopped in their own street.
Even if it was fair and reasonable to stop the vehicle, why didn't the police follow their own guidelines in how they approached the couple and how they extracted them from the vehicle, handcuffed them and separated them from their baby.
Blaming the driver and passenger here is senseless. If you are going about your daily business legally and get treated like that then you have a right to complain. Even the Police agree with that as they have apologised.
P.S you never answered how I was trolling you and I am also wondering where my "bad faith" is?
That is I suppose one side of the story.
If the police had any suspicion of Bianca Williams and her partner, it could only have been increased by their subsequent actions. Their journey could only have looked like an attempt to escape from the police. They were only stopped in their own street, because they refused to stop previously. The police also claim that he sped off, and was at one point on the wrong side of the road. He could be clearly heard repeatedly shouting "What its for" at the police. When they could have both got out of the car, and asked the police what was going on in a reasonable manner.
I am sure that the police will follow people that they are initially suspicious of, but don't end up stopping. I am sure they get behind people and monitor their reaction. I have seen numerous examples on tv of the police getting behind a suspect, and the suspect makes a run for it. That is exactly what Bianca Williams and her partner appeared to do. Bianca Williams, and her partners actions were guaranteed a stop.
I have been stopped by the police numerous times, but chose never to scream and shout at them, or tried to be difficult, and experienced a much better outcome.
It will cause the police more harm if black youngsters feel they have to do a "Bianca Williams", when stopped by the police.
Hopefully we are all running out of new things to say and giving each other clarity on where we agree and disagree and why. Racism is a complex societal issue and warrants debate and I would rather discuss instances like this than whether it is ok to have a master bedroom for example. (Surely it is though, unless maybe you have a slave bedroom in your basement then that would definitely be wrong).
I prefer to see these stops from the point of view of the victims of the stops and the broader impact of unfair or badly handled stops, especially if they disproportionately affect a particular community, promote distrust and reduce the possibility of effective evidence based policing.
When I looked at the broader social media reaction to the Bianca and Ryan, the majority appeared to be ridiculing their reaction not criticising the Police. I think that is dangerous, akin to victim shaming and missing the real point especially as most people can see the police actions post-stop were wrong.
I never said that the stops were factually based on racial bias, I suggested they might be and with the lack of other firm evidence to the contrary I will keep an open mind on it rather than assuming the stop was reasonable because the Police say so.
Is there any evidence to suggest that Ryan was driving suspiciously leading him to be stopped?
I still think that had Bianca's car been driven by a white male in a suit, the TSG Van would not have turned left to mirror the car's right turn and pursued the vehicle in the first place.
There are 2 accounts of their driving after that point, either could be true. They made turns to avoid traffic, so what? London traffic can become log-jammed on busy routes and if you know the local area you can undoubtedly save time.
If you are an innocent person, going about your daily business, not carrying drugs, or weapons and not committing traffic offences why should you be worried about being stopped? I wouldn't be and I guess you wouldn't either, but we are not black. We don't have to be black to try and empathise with a sense of injustice over the number of times they have been stopped and the attitudes they are faced with when stopped.
Bianca denied that they sped off or drove on the wrong side of the road. When eventually asked to stop they turned one corner into their own road. I think if I was being flashed by the Police and I was one turn away from my own house I would turn a corner as well. Being outside your own house has the advantage of having any requested documentation handy and would be easy to explain.
You also have a duty to stop somewhere safe. Bianca spoke about single lane roads, I assume as they were in London that wasn't quiet country lanes but roads lined with parked cars on both sides. In such roads you may need to travel a distance to find a safe place to stop.
I can agree that it was possible that the Ryan and Bianca stops were justified.
Can you agree that is was possible that they were not and based on racial bias?
Hopefully we are all running out of new things to say and giving each other clarity on where we agree and disagree and why. Racism is a complex societal issue and warrants debate and I would rather discuss instances like this than whether it is ok to have a master bedroom for example. (Surely it is though, unless maybe you have a slave bedroom in your basement then that would definitely be wrong).
Strong start There's been a lot of conversation recently about historic slavery, the monuments "celebrating" it, and the privileges passed down to the present day, but not a lot of chat about current working conditions in Leicestershire sweat shops, or indeed about the culture of 'live-in servants' in India. We can park all that for another day!
I prefer to see these stops from the point of view of the victims of the stops and the broader impact of unfair or badly handled stops, especially if they disproportionately affect a particular community, promote distrust and reduce the possibility of effective evidence based policing.
That's fine. It's possible to view from both sides of course. The victims here though definitely have a responsibility to tell the truth or at least consider objectively what's just happened to them (not saying they haven't - but one argument could be that they are baiting the police knowing they are innocent). If they are dishonest in their claims it only serves to promote further distrust and reduce the possibility of effective evidence based policing. It doesn't help anyone to shout about another case where an innocent person has been asked to stop, the next innocent person asked to stop may be further aggrieved and the police have more placating and bargaining to do when asking simple questions.
When I looked at the broader social media reaction to the Bianca and Ryan, the majority appeared to be ridiculing their reaction not criticising the Police. I think that is dangerous, akin to victim shaming and missing the real point especially as most people can see the police actions post-stop were wrong.
The mainstream media certainly seemed to side with the victims here. When reporting on the apology issued the BBC said the police "stopped short" of apologising for the stop. They could have framed this differently. The apology was for the treatment, not for the fact they asked innocent people to stop for a chat. The social media I see (filtered by various algorithms of course!) seems split with people who are adamant this is racism and people who are victim-blaming/shaming and accusing the couple of their own biases and attitude issues.
I never said that the stops were factually based on racial bias, I suggested they might be and with the lack of other firm evidence to the contrary I will keep an open mind on it rather than assuming the stop was reasonable because the Police say so.
Is there any evidence to suggest that Ryan was driving suspiciously leading him to be stopped?
I still think that had Bianca's car been driven by a white male in a suit, the TSG Van would not have turned left to mirror the car's right turn and pursued the vehicle in the first place.
There are 2 accounts of their driving after that point, either could be true. They made turns to avoid traffic, so what? London traffic can become log-jammed on busy routes and if you know the local area you can undoubtedly save time.
Leaving a main road and making some turns before rejoining that road is not illegal, it's just a fact that it contributes to suspicions that make the stop request more likely. As for the rest, nothing new to say and hopefully the full details will be released.
If you are an innocent person, going about your daily business, not carrying drugs, or weapons and not committing traffic offences why should you be worried about being stopped? I wouldn't be and I guess you wouldn't either, but we are not black. We don't have to be black to try and empathise with a sense of injustice over the number of times they have been stopped and the attitudes they are faced with when stopped.
I don't think innocent black people should be worried either, having watched '13th' I can see why they would be worried being stopped in America. That's why reporting of these incidents needs to be handled carefully. Misreporting can easily make more innocent people worry about future stops, which may cause them to not comply, film it and post it and exacerbate it further. Police are going to stop innocent people. It's in everyone's interests for this to be handled quickly quietly and politely. But I can also see that repeat stops would wear you down as I stated in the previous post.
I can agree that it was possible that the Ryan and Bianca stops were justified.
Can you agree that is was possible that they were not and based on racial bias?
Absolutely can agree that this is possible. Possible, but for me given what we know for now, not probable. I guess when we all agree on the facts but have a different intuition about the probability of the effect of bias on the decision, we know the conversation has run its course.
I'm still quite optimistic that the UK isn't full of racists, and all systems aren't designed to keep wealth and power for the straight white guys. I don't like the assertion (not your assertion to be clear, but what appears to be a widespread narrative about privilege), and I think misrepresenting certain situations to perpetuate the narrative is divisive and dangerous and needs to be examined and called out.
Happy to leave the legitimacy of the Bianca Williams stop behind us as a point of discussion.
We can only comment on the individual cases that come to our attention.
Still waiting for any evidence that Ryan Caloco was driving suspiciously.
The guy in Ely was openly stopped for being black, smart piece of policing or not I am glad he was polite and conversed with the driver rather than quoting a section order and dragging him out of the car.
Videos of heavy handed Police action on innocent black people do not help the Police do their job. I think it is down to the Police to change their methods and communicate better with the public and you can't blame the victims of bad stops for going public.
In depth reviews call out racism and racial bias and the stats appear to back that up. It is a problem and it needs to be addressed.
The last thing we need is another review, the answers appear to be there in previous reviews and in successful force wide initiatives in Cleveland and Staffordshire and pilot studies in the Met.
At a Government level having starved the Police of funds for 10 years. maybe they should provide some extra funds to roll-out the successful methods and send out a message that they are listening to the concerns of the minority communities.
Police and Crime Commissioners are elected positions so at least we have a chance to look and see what they stand for.
The police leave themselves wide open to criticism on times.
They could surely have dealt with this in a far better manner.
Although the guy was a bit of a Drama Queen, and seemed to exploit the situation.
Modern technology is probably responsible for reducing the number of these incidents.
It must be virtually impossible to get away with anything when you consider that we have body cams, dash cams, mobile phone cameras, CCTV, bus cams, security cams etc etc.
It makes you wonder why the worst of these incidents, like the death of George Floyd, can actually happen.
UK athlete shares video of police FORCIBLY removing her from car
The imagery and the words expressed at the end of your post Phanthom66 are not pleasant and have no place in the modern world. This is bad and yes racist.
We need to 'tread softly' now and rightly. We also may need to be careful about blanket banning things too.
I do have a concern, and it's a slight concern, that a load of these stories are making the headlines and the front page of websites like the BBC.
Still have not forgiven the BBC for certain things and not a lover of the channel either.
He then filmed as one told him to 'get off the f*****g bus,' adding, 'If you're pulling the race card you might as well be a black c*** then.'
Moment white bus passenger accuses black man of 'pulling the race card'... then goes on to hurl tirade of racist abuse at him after row on top deck Video shows two men screaming at teenager on bus in Lewisham, south London Alleged victim films as two white men are seen telling him to get off the bus 17-year-old asks if 'there is a racial issue' as the argument spills onto the street
Shocking footage has captured the moment two men round on a black teenager on a bus before threatening to 'knock him out.' Trey Robinson videoed two men as they told him to get off a bus in Lewisham, south London after a confrontation on the top deck yesterday. The 17-year-old sixth form student claims the pair were 'staring' at him before he asked them 'if there was a racial issue.'
He then filmed as one told him to 'get off the f*****g bus,' adding, 'If you're pulling the race card you might as well be a black c*** then.'
Moment white bus passenger accuses black man of 'pulling the race card'... then goes on to hurl tirade of racist abuse at him after row on top deck Video shows two men screaming at teenager on bus in Lewisham, south London Alleged victim films as two white men are seen telling him to get off the bus 17-year-old asks if 'there is a racial issue' as the argument spills onto the street
Shocking footage has captured the moment two men round on a black teenager on a bus before threatening to 'knock him out.' Trey Robinson videoed two men as they told him to get off a bus in Lewisham, south London after a confrontation on the top deck yesterday. The 17-year-old sixth form student claims the pair were 'staring' at him before he asked them 'if there was a racial issue.'
Being up very early on a Saturday morning and feeling somewhat fresh I will reply based on what I seen from my side and watching this video once.
Could hardly make out what was said and we only have 56 secs of video to view.
Generally speaking or typing we need to watch our Ps and Qs a little more than before and should not be quick to use the terms racist, white privilege/race card and the like.
On the media and BLM. These two outlets are escalating things and it's time for cool heads. The media can not be trusted IMHO and the BLM movement is gaining big support, hope it stays as peaceful as possible. Protesting is good if it stays civil. We don't need it rammed down our throats though.
The worry is if the Movement and the Media keep pushing as hard as they have done then it will get a bit of backlash and people will be sick of it. That's not a good thing.
This thread is becoming a joke now and is not generating a healthy discussion at all. Posting newspaper articles and quotes on the subject is getting a little worn. All for discussion and even a debate, this thread does not seem to be generating enough to spend more time on it.
People more sensible that I will avoid this thread and quite rightly to.
Comments
I'm glad you're speaking up in cases like this, I've also tried to stay out of such discussions in the past but I do feel these days more and more, various activists are pushing a narrative and labelling everything racist/sexist/homophobic to push their agenda. There's a responsibility to find racism where it exists and absolutely get it out of our society, but there's also a responsibility to establish where it doesn't exist but is claimed to exist. Especially when there's a Twitter mob all lined up to get you sacked.
If the police had any suspicion of Bianca Williams and her partner, it could only have been increased by their subsequent actions.
Their journey could only have looked like an attempt to escape from the police.
They were only stopped in their own street, because they refused to stop previously.
The police also claim that he sped off, and was at one point on the wrong side of the road.
He could be clearly heard repeatedly shouting "What its for" at the police. When they could have both got out of the car, and asked the police what was going on in a reasonable manner.
I am sure that the police will follow people that they are initially suspicious of, but don't end up stopping.
I am sure they get behind people and monitor their reaction.
I have seen numerous examples on tv of the police getting behind a suspect, and the suspect makes a run for it.
That is exactly what Bianca Williams and her partner appeared to do.
Bianca Williams, and her partners actions were guaranteed a stop.
I have been stopped by the police numerous times, but chose never to scream and shout at them, or tried to be difficult, and experienced a much better outcome.
It will cause the police more harm if black youngsters feel they have to do a "Bianca Williams", when stopped by the police.
I prefer to see these stops from the point of view of the victims of the stops and the broader impact of unfair or badly handled stops, especially if they disproportionately affect a particular community, promote distrust and reduce the possibility of effective evidence based policing.
When I looked at the broader social media reaction to the Bianca and Ryan, the majority appeared to be ridiculing their reaction not criticising the Police. I think that is dangerous, akin to victim shaming and missing the real point especially as most people can see the police actions post-stop were wrong.
I never said that the stops were factually based on racial bias, I suggested they might be and with the lack of other firm evidence to the contrary I will keep an open mind on it rather than assuming the stop was reasonable because the Police say so.
Is there any evidence to suggest that Ryan was driving suspiciously leading him to be stopped?
I still think that had Bianca's car been driven by a white male in a suit, the TSG Van would not have turned left to mirror the car's right turn and pursued the vehicle in the first place.
There are 2 accounts of their driving after that point, either could be true. They made turns to avoid traffic, so what? London traffic can become log-jammed on busy routes and if you know the local area you can undoubtedly save time.
If you are an innocent person, going about your daily business, not carrying drugs, or weapons and not committing traffic offences why should you be worried about being stopped? I wouldn't be and I guess you wouldn't either, but we are not black. We don't have to be black to try and empathise with a sense of injustice over the number of times they have been stopped and the attitudes they are faced with when stopped.
Bianca denied that they sped off or drove on the wrong side of the road. When eventually asked to stop they turned one corner into their own road. I think if I was being flashed by the Police and I was one turn away from my own house I would turn a corner as well. Being outside your own house has the advantage of having any requested documentation handy and would be easy to explain.
You also have a duty to stop somewhere safe. Bianca spoke about single lane roads, I assume as they were in London that wasn't quiet country lanes but roads lined with parked cars on both sides. In such roads you may need to travel a distance to find a safe place to stop.
I can agree that it was possible that the Ryan and Bianca stops were justified.
Can you agree that is was possible that they were not and based on racial bias?
I'm still quite optimistic that the UK isn't full of racists, and all systems aren't designed to keep wealth and power for the straight white guys. I don't like the assertion (not your assertion to be clear, but what appears to be a widespread narrative about privilege), and I think misrepresenting certain situations to perpetuate the narrative is divisive and dangerous and needs to be examined and called out.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53307555
Happy to leave the legitimacy of the Bianca Williams stop behind us as a point of discussion.
We can only comment on the individual cases that come to our attention.
Still waiting for any evidence that Ryan Caloco was driving suspiciously.
The guy in Ely was openly stopped for being black, smart piece of policing or not I am glad he was polite and conversed with the driver rather than quoting a section order and dragging him out of the car.
Videos of heavy handed Police action on innocent black people do not help the Police do their job. I think it is down to the Police to change their methods and communicate better with the public and you can't blame the victims of bad stops for going public.
In depth reviews call out racism and racial bias and the stats appear to back that up. It is a problem and it needs to be addressed.
The last thing we need is another review, the answers appear to be there in previous reviews and in successful force wide initiatives in Cleveland and Staffordshire and pilot studies in the Met.
At a Government level having starved the Police of funds for 10 years. maybe they should provide some extra funds to roll-out the successful methods and send out a message that they are listening to the concerns of the minority communities.
Police and Crime Commissioners are elected positions so at least we have a chance to look and see what they stand for.
Not read the story on this one.
We never actually see what is texted in most of these articles to form our own opinion on what is racist or not?
Good Aunty Beeb to tell the public what to think.....
Maybe time to have a look at what I pay a TV license for.
Zaha tweeted the message he was sent.
Would have been totally inappropriatefor the beeb to reproduce it.
E.g KKK imagery - black c**t - c**n
We need to 'tread softly' now and rightly. We also may need to be careful about blanket banning things too.
I do have a concern, and it's a slight concern, that a load of these stories are making the headlines and the front page of websites like the BBC.
Still have not forgiven the BBC for certain things and not a lover of the channel either.
Moment white bus passenger accuses black man of 'pulling the race card'... then goes on to hurl tirade of racist abuse at him after row on top deck
Video shows two men screaming at teenager on bus in Lewisham, south London
Alleged victim films as two white men are seen telling him to get off the bus
17-year-old asks if 'there is a racial issue' as the argument spills onto the street
Shocking footage has captured the moment two men round on a black teenager on a bus before threatening to 'knock him out.'
Trey Robinson videoed two men as they told him to get off a bus in Lewisham, south London after a confrontation on the top deck yesterday.
The 17-year-old sixth form student claims the pair were 'staring' at him before he asked them 'if there was a racial issue.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8529687/Pair-force-black-teenager-bus-row-board.html
Being up very early on a Saturday morning and feeling somewhat fresh I will reply based on what I seen from my side and watching this video once.
Could hardly make out what was said and we only have 56 secs of video to view.
Generally speaking or typing
On the media and BLM. These two outlets are escalating things and it's time for cool heads. The media can not be trusted IMHO and the BLM movement is gaining big support, hope it stays as peaceful as possible. Protesting is good if it stays civil. We don't need it rammed down our throats though.
The worry is if the Movement and the Media keep pushing as hard as they have done then it will get a bit of backlash and people will be sick of it. That's not a good thing.
This thread is becoming a joke now and is not generating a healthy discussion at all. Posting newspaper articles and quotes on the subject is getting a little worn. All for discussion and even a debate, this thread does not seem to be generating enough to spend more time on it.
People more sensible that I will avoid this thread and quite rightly to.