Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
Not true.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Boris said his aim was to diverge. The EU have rules on dealing with third countries which we were happy to observe while we were members, but are objecting to subsequent to leaving.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Therefore any agreement will need to be continually updated. The NI customs checks are in place to protect the SM. If we are concerned about imports from Ireland we would have to introduce more checks. Although these checks would not apply to the whole of the UK. Brexit isnt even close to being done
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
I think you are overlooking the fact that no checks are required between Ireland and NI, is because NI was left in the SM/CU. How do you make that work after any divergence from the current rules. NI will have to observe UK internal market rules as well as SM rules that will differ in increasing numbers.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
Close to none because they are both in the SM/CU. Goods entering NI, are entering the SM. Although they do seem to be favouring a red/green lane system. The example they usually use is Sainsburys. They have no shops in Ireland. Therefore you could assume that their lorries are transporting goods destined for NI only. So a green lane with no checks would make sense.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy. Really?
Because the EU will not let them.
And they cant get them from the UK? They cant just drive over the border into NI, purchase anything they like?
Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
And we have lived with for 40 odd years?
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
I wonder why they wouldnt trust a word Boris said.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
UK isolated over Northern Ireland protocol as US-EU alliance rules out renegotiation
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
Not true.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Boris said his aim was to diverge. The EU have rules on dealing with third countries which we were happy to observe while we were members, but are objecting to subsequent to leaving.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Therefore any agreement will need to be continually updated. The NI customs checks are in place to protect the SM. If we are concerned about imports from Ireland we would have to introduce more checks. Although these checks would not apply to the whole of the UK. Brexit isnt even close to being done
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
I think you are overlooking the fact that no checks are required between Ireland and NI, is because NI was left in the SM/CU. How do you make that work after any divergence from the current rules. NI will have to observe UK internal market rules as well as SM rules that will differ in increasing numbers.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
Close to none because they are both in the SM/CU. Goods entering NI, are entering the SM. Although they do seem to be favouring a red/green lane system. The example they usually use is Sainsburys. They have no shops in Ireland. Therefore you could assume that their lorries are transporting goods destined for NI only. So a green lane with no checks would make sense.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy. Really?
Because the EU will not let them.
And they cant get them from the UK? They cant just drive over the border into NI, purchase anything they like?
Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
And we have lived with for 40 odd years?
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
I wonder why they wouldnt trust a word Boris said.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Now we know what leaving the EU cost us, let’s get Brexit undone
Only the British-or perhaps, more accurately, the English, could maintain the above stance. Confident that neither the British people, or indeed the EU, have any say in all of this.
Let's look at our real history with the EU.
1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way
2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined
3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote
4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything
5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for
6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU
Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.
Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.
Only the British-or perhaps, more accurately, the English, could maintain the above stance. Confident that neither the British people, or indeed the EU, have any say in all of this.
Let's look at our real history with the EU.
1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way
2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined
3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote
4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything
5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for
6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU
Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.
Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.
Only the British-or perhaps, more accurately, the English, could maintain the above stance. Confident that neither the British people, or indeed the EU, have any say in all of this.
Let's look at our real history with the EU.
1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way
2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined
3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote
4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything
5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for
6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU
Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.
Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.
Why on earth would the EU want us in?
Beats me.
It is realistic to hope that we may join some sort of free trade zone. It is realistic that a deal could be done whereby the UK has some form of membership of what used to be an EEC. But we are never likely to be in a European Union.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
Not true.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Boris said his aim was to diverge. The EU have rules on dealing with third countries which we were happy to observe while we were members, but are objecting to subsequent to leaving.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Therefore any agreement will need to be continually updated. The NI customs checks are in place to protect the SM. If we are concerned about imports from Ireland we would have to introduce more checks. Although these checks would not apply to the whole of the UK. Brexit isnt even close to being done
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
I think you are overlooking the fact that no checks are required between Ireland and NI, is because NI was left in the SM/CU. How do you make that work after any divergence from the current rules. NI will have to observe UK internal market rules as well as SM rules that will differ in increasing numbers.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
Close to none because they are both in the SM/CU. Goods entering NI, are entering the SM. Although they do seem to be favouring a red/green lane system. The example they usually use is Sainsburys. They have no shops in Ireland. Therefore you could assume that their lorries are transporting goods destined for NI only. So a green lane with no checks would make sense.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Really?
Because the EU will not let them.
And they cant get them from the UK? They cant just drive over the border into NI, purchase anything they like?
Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not. And we have lived with for 40 odd years?
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
I wonder why they wouldnt trust a word Boris said.
For months, and months we have had both Boris, and Liz Truss threatening Article 16, and the ripping up of the protocol. This has had 2 effects. Firstly it has wound up the EU. Secondly it has placated the DUP. However the situation has changed in recent weeks. Firstly, the DUP have become fed up with the threats that Boris, and Liz Truss have made over the last 9 months or so, and want to see some action. Secondly, Jeffrey Donaldson is now clearly saying that the DUP will not be happy until the protocol is ripped up and the border removed. Thirdly, Boris, and Liz Truss have now stopped the Article 16 threats, are now talking about the negotiation of a reduced number of customs checks, and have always stopped short of a threat to remove the border.
One of the American guys said that collapsing Stormont should be the end of a negotiation, not the beginning.
I have maintained throughout the Brexit is the problem, rather than the protocol. Leaving the EU meant a border between us and them. Should have been a land border in Ireland. GFA made this impossible. The only other place was the Irish Sea. Boris put one there. This could only work if NI remained in the SM/CU. What would the point of it be, otherwise. That leaves NI in a sort of no-mans land. They are subject to EU, and UK regulations. This would be quite easy immediately after leaving, while we were aligned with the EU, but was bound to become more difficult as time went on, as we diverge. Stormont get a vote on the protocol in 2024. What could the alternative possibly be?
The alternative is for the EU to allow Northern Ireland and Ireland to freely trade with one another, and for Northern Ireland to be able to freely trade with the UK.
Of course that would necessarily involve compromise on both sides. There would need to be sensible restrictions in relation to when Ireland could export UK-based goods to the rest of the EU. And the UK would need to mark certain goods appropriately to facilitate that. And then NI would not need to be in the Single Market. Because, however much Sinn Fein and the US choose to ignore the facts, the Single Market seriously inhibits trade between NI and the rest of the UK
But that is what the GFA essentially is. Allowing NI to freely trade with both the rest of the UK and Ireland.
PS-don't get too hung up on placating the DUP. They will never be happy...
The alternative is for the EU to allow Northern Ireland and Ireland to freely trade with one another, and for Northern Ireland to be able to freely trade with the UK.
But we could have done a deal that would have allowed this to happen. The backstop for instance. You have to wonder how the UK government can maintain that the protocol gives NI the best of both worlds. Yet the backstop was no good when it gave the whole of the UK, the same best of both worlds.
Of course that would necessarily involve compromise on both sides. There would need to be sensible restrictions in relation to when Ireland could export UK-based goods to the rest of the EU. And the UK would need to mark certain goods appropriately to facilitate that. And then NI would not need to be in the Single Market. Because, however much Sinn Fein and the US choose to ignore the facts, the Single Market seriously inhibits trade between NI and the rest of the UK
When we chose to leave, were we under the impression that we would continue to be treated as members? Were we not aware of the rules that applied to the EU trade with third countries? A land border in Ireland was impossible. How could you avoid the land border, with no customs checks in NI, and at the same time protect the SM. If it inhibits trade it is strange that the NI economy has outperformed the rest of the UK. All the compromise that you are suggesting seems to be on the side of the EU. NI makes no financial contribution to the EU for their SM/CU access. You seem to be arguing for having our cake and eating it.
But that is what the GFA essentially is. Allowing NI to freely trade with both the rest of the UK and Ireland.
How does NI comply with both sets of rules.
PS-don't get too hung up on placating the DUP. They will never be happy...
I dont think the DUP have any chance of being happy any time soon.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
A very good question, and many valid points.
Boris Johnson and I agreed on Northern Ireland. What happened to that good faith?
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Westminster ‘pushing disingenuous claim that protocol incompatible with GFA’
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Westminster ‘pushing disingenuous claim that protocol incompatible with GFA’
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
2 sides of the coin again. You ignore the fact that (much like the DUP) Ireland speaks from a biased perspective. And take on 1 side of an important debate. While ignoring the other. 2 points:-
1. The Protocol does damage the GFA. The founding principle of the GFA is that there should be equivalent freedoms in relation to Ireland/the UK for the people of NI. The Protocol, as it stands, allows for totally free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland. But not the other way, where the debate centres on how many obstacles there should be. As opposed to the 0 going the other way.
So-for example-when inevitable divergence (over time, rather than UK provocation) occurs between the EU and UK, will Ireland commit to similar rules to preserve the integrity of the UK market? Or does a commitment only work in 1 direction?
2. You highlight arguments pointing 1 way. And ignore the reverse. How about:-
"an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland."
What can that mean-other than demanding a United Ireland?
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Westminster ‘pushing disingenuous claim that protocol incompatible with GFA’
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
2 sides of the coin again. You ignore the fact that (much like the DUP) Ireland speaks from a biased perspective. And take on 1 side of an important debate. While ignoring the other. 2 points:-
Simon Coveney has always seemed to be in favour of a negotiated settlement. The DUP are in the minority on this issue, and will only be happy with an impossible solution. The British Government seem happy to break International Law. Even breaking International Law will not make the DUP happy. Doing so will alienate the EU, but not provide a solution.
1. The Protocol does damage the GFA. The founding principle of the GFA is that there should be equivalent freedoms in relation to Ireland/the UK for the people of NI.
The UK Government designed, and agreed the protocol.
The Protocol, as it stands, allows for totally free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
As designed, and agreed by the UK Government.
But not the other way, where the debate centres on how many obstacles there should be. As opposed to the 0 going the other way.
You seem to consistently wish to ignore the facts. The protocol allows for NI to remain in the SM/CU. Therefore SM rules apply on the island of Ireland. How does NI implement SM rules, and UK rules? Which rules should take priority, where there is a conflict? The EU let NI remain in the SM/CU in respect of the GFA. Despite this, where SM and UK rules are at odds, it would appear that our side would prefer it if we could say b0ll0cks to the SM rules. When would it ever be possible for NI to comply with both sets of rules? Hence the customs checks. You seem to be ignoring lots of stuff that justify customs checks, like garlic smuggling, mobile phone vat fraud, foot and mouth, horse meat scandals, etc, etc.
So-for example-when inevitable divergence (over time, rather than UK provocation) occurs between the EU and UK, will Ireland commit to similar rules to preserve the integrity of the UK market? Or does a commitment only work in 1 direction?
Isnt the point that all these difficulties stem from Brexit. We left, but cant seem to bear the consequences. Didnt Boris lose the integrity of the UK market when he put a border in the Irish Sea? Under the Boris arrangements it is impossible to preserve both markets, but he surely knew this.
2. You highlight arguments pointing 1 way. And ignore the reverse. How about:-
Boris made the arrangements.
"an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland."
What can that mean-other than demanding a United Ireland?
That would seem to be the way things are headed, at some point. Although if that is where we end up, I dont suppose we will have much say in the number of customs checks carried out in Ireland. Wasnt the protocol really the first step, to this end? The border, and effectively leaving NI in the EU?
It seems to me that you are ignoring the following. We chose to put the border in the Irish Sea. We chose to leave NI in the SM/CU. We chose to leave the EU. We want to dictate to the EU what customs checks are allowed to be carried out on their side of the border. The DUP are conflating the issue of identity with trade. Both Boris and the DUP wouldnt wear the backstop. The backstop would have solved all the problems with the protocol.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Westminster ‘pushing disingenuous claim that protocol incompatible with GFA’
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
2 sides of the coin again. You ignore the fact that (much like the DUP) Ireland speaks from a biased perspective. And take on 1 side of an important debate. While ignoring the other. 2 points:-
Simon Coveney has always seemed to be in favour of a negotiated settlement. The DUP are in the minority on this issue, and will only be happy with an impossible solution. The British Government seem happy to break International Law. Even breaking International Law will not make the DUP happy. Doing so will alienate the EU, but not provide a solution.
1. The Protocol does damage the GFA. The founding principle of the GFA is that there should be equivalent freedoms in relation to Ireland/the UK for the people of NI.
The UK Government designed, and agreed the protocol.
The Protocol, as it stands, allows for totally free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
As designed, and agreed by the UK Government.
But not the other way, where the debate centres on how many obstacles there should be. As opposed to the 0 going the other way.
You seem to consistently wish to ignore the facts. The protocol allows for NI to remain in the SM/CU. Therefore SM rules apply on the island of Ireland. How does NI implement SM rules, and UK rules? Which rules should take priority, where there is a conflict? The EU let NI remain in the SM/CU in respect of the GFA. Despite this, where SM and UK rules are at odds, it would appear that our side would prefer it if we could say b0ll0cks to the SM rules. When would it ever be possible for NI to comply with both sets of rules? Hence the customs checks. You seem to be ignoring lots of stuff that justify customs checks, like garlic smuggling, mobile phone vat fraud, foot and mouth, horse meat scandals, etc, etc.
So-for example-when inevitable divergence (over time, rather than UK provocation) occurs between the EU and UK, will Ireland commit to similar rules to preserve the integrity of the UK market? Or does a commitment only work in 1 direction?
Isnt the point that all these difficulties stem from Brexit. We left, but cant seem to bear the consequences. Didnt Boris lose the integrity of the UK market when he put a border in the Irish Sea? Under the Boris arrangements it is impossible to preserve both markets, but he surely knew this.
2. You highlight arguments pointing 1 way. And ignore the reverse. How about:-
Boris made the arrangements.
"an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland."
What can that mean-other than demanding a United Ireland?
That would seem to be the way things are headed, at some point. Although if that is where we end up, I dont suppose we will have much say in the number of customs checks carried out in Ireland. Wasnt the protocol really the first step, to this end? The border, and effectively leaving NI in the EU?
It seems to me that you are ignoring the following. We chose to put the border in the Irish Sea. We chose to leave NI in the SM/CU. We chose to leave the EU. We want to dictate to the EU what customs checks are allowed to be carried out on their side of the border. The DUP are conflating the issue of identity with trade. Both Boris and the DUP wouldnt wear the backstop. The backstop would have solved all the problems with the protocol.
So-just checking.
You would have no problem with anyone who objects to any autonomy for Wales. Not to refer to your country as Wales. To deliberately refer to your country as "west of England." And refuse to use either Wales or Cymru.
Because that is exactly what people who use the term "north of Ireland" are doing. It is only used by Nationalist people who deny the legitimacy of Northern Ireland.
I would find that extremely offensive. Apparently, you do not.
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Westminster ‘pushing disingenuous claim that protocol incompatible with GFA’
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
2 sides of the coin again. You ignore the fact that (much like the DUP) Ireland speaks from a biased perspective. And take on 1 side of an important debate. While ignoring the other. 2 points:-
Simon Coveney has always seemed to be in favour of a negotiated settlement. The DUP are in the minority on this issue, and will only be happy with an impossible solution. The British Government seem happy to break International Law. Even breaking International Law will not make the DUP happy. Doing so will alienate the EU, but not provide a solution.
1. The Protocol does damage the GFA. The founding principle of the GFA is that there should be equivalent freedoms in relation to Ireland/the UK for the people of NI.
The UK Government designed, and agreed the protocol.
The Protocol, as it stands, allows for totally free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland.
As designed, and agreed by the UK Government.
But not the other way, where the debate centres on how many obstacles there should be. As opposed to the 0 going the other way.
You seem to consistently wish to ignore the facts. The protocol allows for NI to remain in the SM/CU. Therefore SM rules apply on the island of Ireland. How does NI implement SM rules, and UK rules? Which rules should take priority, where there is a conflict? The EU let NI remain in the SM/CU in respect of the GFA. Despite this, where SM and UK rules are at odds, it would appear that our side would prefer it if we could say b0ll0cks to the SM rules. When would it ever be possible for NI to comply with both sets of rules? Hence the customs checks. You seem to be ignoring lots of stuff that justify customs checks, like garlic smuggling, mobile phone vat fraud, foot and mouth, horse meat scandals, etc, etc.
So-for example-when inevitable divergence (over time, rather than UK provocation) occurs between the EU and UK, will Ireland commit to similar rules to preserve the integrity of the UK market? Or does a commitment only work in 1 direction?
Isnt the point that all these difficulties stem from Brexit. We left, but cant seem to bear the consequences. Didnt Boris lose the integrity of the UK market when he put a border in the Irish Sea? Under the Boris arrangements it is impossible to preserve both markets, but he surely knew this.
2. You highlight arguments pointing 1 way. And ignore the reverse. How about:-
Boris made the arrangements.
"an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland."
What can that mean-other than demanding a United Ireland?
That would seem to be the way things are headed, at some point. Although if that is where we end up, I dont suppose we will have much say in the number of customs checks carried out in Ireland. Wasnt the protocol really the first step, to this end? The border, and effectively leaving NI in the EU?
It seems to me that you are ignoring the following. We chose to put the border in the Irish Sea. We chose to leave NI in the SM/CU. We chose to leave the EU. We want to dictate to the EU what customs checks are allowed to be carried out on their side of the border. The DUP are conflating the issue of identity with trade. Both Boris and the DUP wouldnt wear the backstop. The backstop would have solved all the problems with the protocol.
So-just checking.
You would have no problem with anyone who objects to any autonomy for Wales. Not to refer to your country as Wales. To deliberately refer to your country as "west of England." And refuse to use either Wales or Cymru.
Because that is exactly what people who use the term "north of Ireland" are doing. It is only used by Nationalist people who deny the legitimacy of Northern Ireland.
I would find that extremely offensive. Apparently, you do not.
I am surprised you have said this. It seems like a Boris distraction. You seem to think I have views on NI, that are incorrect. As a UK citizen, I would be sorry if Ni left the UK. I dont think that Wales is at all relevant to any Brexit argument.
You cant get away from the following. NI voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. There is now a border that separates NI from the rest of the UK. NI remains in the SM/CU, unlike the rest of the UK. I have not contributed, or had any influence on the article below. Unlike Boris, I am not responsible for any of the above. Like Boris you seem to be going off at a tangent.
63% of people in Northern Ireland think a united Ireland is now more likely because of Brexit
The proportion who think the Northern Ireland Protocol is "on balance a good thing" has more than doubled to 33% (15% in 2020), while 33% think it a "mixed bag" and 21% think it "on balance a bad thing".
Only the British-or perhaps, more accurately, the English, could maintain the above stance. Confident that neither the British people, or indeed the EU, have any say in all of this.
Let's look at our real history with the EU.
1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way
2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined
3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote
4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything
5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for
6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU
Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.
Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.
Why on earth would the EU want us in?
NI parties describe ‘very useful’ meetings with US delegation
Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
Jaguar Land Rover threatens to shift electric car production to Europe
Comments
It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.
Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.
Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.
Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.
The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.
Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.
It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/uk-isolated-over-northern-ireland-160222858.html
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8b1thw
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/now-we-know-what-leaving-the-eu-cost-us-let-s-get-brexit-undone/ar-AAXDW3I?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=529f6aea15f74e879699b803f080e31a
Let's look at our real history with the EU.
1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way
2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined
3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote
4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything
5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for
6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU
Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.
Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.
Why on earth would the EU want us in?
It is realistic that a deal could be done whereby the UK has some form of membership of what used to be an EEC.
But we are never likely to be in a European Union.
Of course that would necessarily involve compromise on both sides. There would need to be sensible restrictions in relation to when Ireland could export UK-based goods to the rest of the EU. And the UK would need to mark certain goods appropriately to facilitate that. And then NI would not need to be in the Single Market. Because, however much Sinn Fein and the US choose to ignore the facts, the Single Market seriously inhibits trade between NI and the rest of the UK
But that is what the GFA essentially is. Allowing NI to freely trade with both the rest of the UK and Ireland.
PS-don't get too hung up on placating the DUP. They will never be happy...
Boris Johnson and I agreed on Northern Ireland. What happened to that good faith?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-and-i-agreed-on-northern-ireland-what-happened-to-that-good-faith/ar-AAXEift?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=0906fc1c0e08451da11c9ee79260cab7
Ireland’s foreign affairs minister has accused the British Government of pushing a “disingenuous” and “dangerous” claim that the Northern Ireland Protocol is incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement
“Unilateral action is contrary to the wishes of the majority of people and businesses in Northern Ireland.”
It came amid a powersharing impasse at Stormont created by the DUP’s refusal to agree to form a new devolved executive after the recent Assembly election, until the so-called Irish Sea border is removed.
“What I want to put on the record here that this Government, through my office and through others, are already working with the European Commission to try to ensure that we respond to legitimate concerns in Northern Ireland, particularly on this issue of making a significant differentiation between goods that we know are staying in Northern Ireland, being purchased and consumed there, from goods that are at risk of travelling on into the EU single market.
“We can, in my view, make a very significant step forward in meeting the demands of many in the unionist community who want to see unnecessary checks gone on goods that are staying within the United Kingdom. But again, without a partner it’s hard to find a way forward.”
“The mechanisms for dealing with any issues arising from the protocol is the joint committee, as we have said time and time again,” Ms Conway-Walsh said.
“Other issues can be dealt with in the same way. The truth is that the protocol is being used and abused by the DUP, ably abetted by the British Government, in an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/westminster-pushing-disingenuous-claim-that-protocol-incompatible-with-gfa/ar-AAXIqVH?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7d1da2443144414587291b37a8e3e543
1. The Protocol does damage the GFA. The founding principle of the GFA is that there should be equivalent freedoms in relation to Ireland/the UK for the people of NI. The Protocol, as it stands, allows for totally free trade between Ireland and Northern Ireland. But not the other way, where the debate centres on how many obstacles there should be. As opposed to the 0 going the other way.
So-for example-when inevitable divergence (over time, rather than UK provocation) occurs between the EU and UK, will Ireland commit to similar rules to preserve the integrity of the UK market? Or does a commitment only work in 1 direction?
2. You highlight arguments pointing 1 way. And ignore the reverse. How about:-
"an attempt to hold back the tide of equity and change within the north of Ireland."
What can that mean-other than demanding a United Ireland?
Although if that is where we end up, I dont suppose we will have much say in the number of customs checks carried out in Ireland.
Wasnt the protocol really the first step, to this end?
The border, and effectively leaving NI in the EU?
It seems to me that you are ignoring the following.
We chose to put the border in the Irish Sea.
We chose to leave NI in the SM/CU.
We chose to leave the EU.
We want to dictate to the EU what customs checks are allowed to be carried out on their side of the border.
The DUP are conflating the issue of identity with trade.
Both Boris and the DUP wouldnt wear the backstop.
The backstop would have solved all the problems with the protocol.
You would have no problem with anyone who objects to any autonomy for Wales. Not to refer to your country as Wales. To deliberately refer to your country as "west of England." And refuse to use either Wales or Cymru.
Because that is exactly what people who use the term "north of Ireland" are doing. It is only used by Nationalist people who deny the legitimacy of Northern Ireland.
I would find that extremely offensive. Apparently, you do not.
It seems like a Boris distraction.
You seem to think I have views on NI, that are incorrect.
As a UK citizen, I would be sorry if Ni left the UK.
I dont think that Wales is at all relevant to any Brexit argument.
You cant get away from the following.
NI voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU.
There is now a border that separates NI from the rest of the UK.
NI remains in the SM/CU, unlike the rest of the UK.
I have not contributed, or had any influence on the article below.
Unlike Boris, I am not responsible for any of the above.
Like Boris you seem to be going off at a tangent.
63% of people in Northern Ireland think a united Ireland is now more likely because of Brexit
The proportion who think the Northern Ireland Protocol is "on balance a good thing" has more than doubled to 33% (15% in 2020), while 33% think it a "mixed bag" and 21% think it "on balance a bad thing".
https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2022-05-26/two-thirds-of-ni-think-brexit-has-made-a-united-ireland-more-likely
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/ni-parties-describe-very-useful-meetings-with-us-delegation/ar-AAXLszs?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=edf9f62cec3941f5a567dbff9b8b152b
Rejoiner alliance threat: Boris warned Brexit could be REVERSED if PM does not act on plot
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/rejoiner-alliance-threat-boris-warned-brexit-could-be-reversed-if-pm-does-not-act-on-plot/ar-AAXJ5aR?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=edf9f62cec3941f5a567dbff9b8b152b
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/jaguar-land-rover-threatens-shift-190854456.html