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Effects Of Brexit.

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited May 2022
    Essexphil said:

    Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.

    It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.

    Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.

    Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.

    Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.

    The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.

    Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.

    It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.


    ‘Same nightmare week after week’: UK firms fed up with post-Brexit EU trade



    Even with the current deal, the OBR – the Treasury’s economics forecaster – expects Brexit to cost the economy 4% of GDP over 15 years, double the long-term impact of the scarring from the Covid pandemic.

    Trade figures suggest UK exporters are already feeling the pinch. According to the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis, which tracks trends in global trade, goods exports in March from advanced economies – including the UK, US, Japan and euro area – were 2% above the monthly average for 2018, after adjusting for inflation. In the UK, however, real exports were almost 22% down in the same month.

    Some sectors have suffered a more dramatic hit than others. Exports of clothing and footwear to the EU are both down by almost 60% compared with 2018. Meat exports have plunged by almost 25%, vegetables and fruit by 40%, while car exports are down by more than a quarter.

    https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/same-nightmare-week-week-uk-050020489.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.

    I dont suppose the average wage in Poland will ever match say Germany.
    I suppose that makes a minimum wage somewhat difficult.
    As you say, their workers will be more protected than those in the UK, assuming the Tories get their way.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Only the British-or perhaps, more accurately, the English, could maintain the above stance. Confident that neither the British people, or indeed the EU, have any say in all of this.

    Let's look at our real history with the EU.

    1. The EEC was formed in 1957. For many years France refused to countenance the UK joining, believing we would be both disruptive and insist on everyone doing things our way

    2. In 1973, the EU was enlarged. Other countries asked their people whether they should join-for example, the voters in Norway said no. We just joined

    3. In 1975 we held a vote as to whether to remain in. Large vote to remain-strange and divisive time to hold a vote

    4. 40 years of the UK arguing with the other Members about pretty much everything. You name it-the Euro, Maastricht, Lisbon, Schengen, Opt-Outs-we were against pretty much everything

    5. 2016-another public vote. Lots of anti-EU invective. Narrow vote to leave, coupled with our Government trashing everything the EU stands for

    6. People blithely assuming that we should rejoin the EU

    Only the UK could seriously maintain 6, after 1-5.

    Let's forget the plusses and minuses from the point of view of economic benefits/ignoring democracy for a minute.

    Why on earth would the EU want us in?

    Beats me.
    It is realistic to hope that we may join some sort of free trade zone.
    It is realistic that a deal could be done whereby the UK has some form of membership of what used to be an EEC.
    But we are never likely to be in a European Union.
    Wouldnt a free trade zone, or the membership of any sort of EU club, involve alignment with SM rules, rather than the planned divergence?

    Wherever we go from here, would seem to involve a border, and some customs checks.
    Where is the common ground when,
    The EU feels it is entitled to enforce at least some checks.
    Boris wants less checks.
    The DUP dont want any checks, or a border.


    The DUP seem to be of the opinion that the legislation proposed by Boris will rip up the protocol, and remove the border.
    He has made it clear that this is not the case.
    If they were all being honest, the sh1t would hit the fan much sooner.
    The below seems to suggest that there will be no change anytime soon, or that there is much common ground.


    Best of Nolan
    Sources tell Nolan British government will publish legislation about changing parts of the NI protocol – as early as 6th June

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0c98f5b
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    edited May 2022
    Essexphil said:

    Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.

    It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.

    Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.

    Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.

    Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.

    The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.

    Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.

    It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.

    Brexiteer MP moans about traffic jams in Dover... again


    Natalie Elphicke MP
    @NatalieElphicke
    This week I called for action to be taken on Dover’s roads.

    Dover is becoming almost as famous for its traffic jams as for its White Cliffs, as reported in the Dover Express.





    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/brexiteer-mp-moans-about-traffic-jams-in-dover-again/ar-AAXT8z5?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=234eb3d4506e47328507a42603c43670
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.

    It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.

    Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.

    Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.

    Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.

    The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.

    Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.

    It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.

    Legal challenge over Edwin Poots’ decision to halt Irish Sea border checks is put on hold after new point is raised


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/legal-challenge-over-edwin-poots-decision-to-halt-irish-sea-border-checks-is-put-on-hold-after-new-point-is-raised/ar-AAXSH8o?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=16c329b3af0b40bb95cd04669d792ac3
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Your love of the EU blinds you to the other side of the coin.

    It may well be the case that 2 sovereign states will diverge in methods of production. Those are choices that sovereign states are free to make-provided, of course, that you are not ruled from a super-state.

    Ireland will, as new diktats emerge from Brussels, gradually diverge from the 2016 status quo. As will we. But no-one ever mentions that.

    Border checks for goods from Ireland to Northern Ireland? 0. Because we believe in and trust the Good Friday Agreement. And have always sought to treat Ireland more favourably than any other trading nation.

    Northern Ireland to Ireland? Officially close to 0, but only because GB is forced to carry out checks on goods "exported" to Northern Ireland, in case those goods might end up in Ireland.

    The Irish people are not allowed to choose what goods they choose to buy.

    Because the EU will not let them. Because that is the way Protectionism works in the EU. It does not seek proportionality as part of a move towards free trade. It seeks to impose its standards on others. Whether they like it or not. And whether their member states like it or not.

    It is about time the US Government stopped wishing they were Irish Republicans, and listened to both sides of a debate.

    Let’s rejoin EU single market to ease cost of living crisis, says Tobias Ellwood


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/britain-rejoin-eu-single-market-155322276.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.

    Jet2 boss blames airport **** on Brexit 'taking millions out of the job market'


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/jet2-boss-blames-airport-****-on-brexit-taking-millions-out-of-the-job-market/ar-AAY2DHI?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4b54d846960243f48df2f3896b4a2829
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.

    That is an alternative point of view.
    I think we have always found it difficult to fill the jobs that people consider menial.
    This was obviously why there were so many Eastern Europeans employed in the care sector, farming, and hospitality.
    There used to be a feeling that Brits would prefer to claim benefits, rather than do a menial job, or anything that involved hard graft, although I have no facts to back this argument up.
    I bumped into my distraught Brother-in-Law the other day, he had planned a day of interviewing to find a cleaner.
    Of the 8 interviews he had booked only 1 turned up.
    The job involved 5 hours per day, Monday to Friday, at £9.87 per hour.
    This had everything to do with the above, rather than Brexit.

    I think Job Centres insist on people applying for a reasonable number of jobs in order to qualify for their benefits.
    Although they cant force them to be clean, tidy, and smartly dressed when they turn up for an interview, or appear keen to get the job.

    I appreciate your point about pay and conditions, although airlines might say that it is a very competitive business.
    The costs of any improvement in pay will be borne by the consumer.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,780
    edited June 2022
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.

    That is an alternative point of view.
    I think we have always found it difficult to fill the jobs that people consider menial.
    This was obviously why there were so many Eastern Europeans employed in the care sector, farming, and hospitality.
    There used to be a feeling that Brits would prefer to claim benefits, rather than do a menial job, or anything that involved hard graft, although I have no facts to back this argument up.
    I bumped into my distraught Brother-in-Law the other day, he had planned a day of interviewing to find a cleaner.
    Of the 8 interviews he had booked only 1 turned up.
    The job involved 5 hours per day, Monday to Friday, at £9.87 per hour.
    This had everything to do with the above, rather than Brexit.

    I think Job Centres insist on people applying for a reasonable number of jobs in order to qualify for their benefits.
    Although they cant force them to be clean, tidy, and smartly dressed when they turn up for an interview, or appear keen to get the job.

    I appreciate your point about pay and conditions, although airlines might say that it is a very competitive business.
    The costs of any improvement in pay will be borne by the consumer.
    "Alternative"? Think it is the only sensible way to look at this.
    Jet2 operate mainly out of Northern/Scottish airports-surely if Gatwick/Heathrow manage this better, then there is something seriously wrong with the recruitment strategy at Jet2.

    It is just lazy, incompetent Managers blaming anything and everything rather than themselves. Jet2 Holidays are being badly let down by Jet2 Airlines. The CEO of Jet2 should face up to that.

    Fail to see why your brother-in-law is "distraught". Presumably, he has 1 vacancy-and 1 applicant. Who, presumably, was the best available person for the job ;)

    That said, it is ridiculous the way our Benefits system works. It concentrates far too much on punishment, rather than filling jobs. The solution is simple-stop wasting massive resources on trying to punish the lazy, and concentrate on filling jobs.

    Just give benefits to the "lazy", and stop spending £Billions on trying to force them to get in everyone else's way (employers and employees) when it comes to filling jobs. Why waste employers' time with no-shows and the deliberately obstructive? Then people like your brother-in-law would get 3 people who want a job, rather than 1 who does and 7 who do not.

    PS-the real reason for the shortage is this. It takes 3 months to CRB check staff. In 3 months they will need less, not more, staff-as Summer will be over. So they are just ripping us off (and their staff) to increase profit.
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 9,061
    That would we do.......... without " Gloom & Doom "
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.

    That is an alternative point of view.
    I think we have always found it difficult to fill the jobs that people consider menial.
    This was obviously why there were so many Eastern Europeans employed in the care sector, farming, and hospitality.
    There used to be a feeling that Brits would prefer to claim benefits, rather than do a menial job, or anything that involved hard graft, although I have no facts to back this argument up.
    I bumped into my distraught Brother-in-Law the other day, he had planned a day of interviewing to find a cleaner.
    Of the 8 interviews he had booked only 1 turned up.
    The job involved 5 hours per day, Monday to Friday, at £9.87 per hour.
    This had everything to do with the above, rather than Brexit.

    I think Job Centres insist on people applying for a reasonable number of jobs in order to qualify for their benefits.
    Although they cant force them to be clean, tidy, and smartly dressed when they turn up for an interview, or appear keen to get the job.

    I appreciate your point about pay and conditions, although airlines might say that it is a very competitive business.
    The costs of any improvement in pay will be borne by the consumer.
    "Alternative"? Think it is the only sensible way to look at this.
    Jet2 operate mainly out of Northern/Scottish airports-surely if Gatwick/Heathrow manage this better, then there is something seriously wrong with the recruitment strategy at Jet2.

    It is just lazy, incompetent Managers blaming anything and everything rather than themselves. Jet2 Holidays are being badly let down by Jet2 Airlines. The CEO of Jet2 should face up to that.

    Fail to see why your brother-in-law is "distraught". Presumably, he has 1 vacancy-and 1 applicant. Who, presumably, was the best available person for the job ;)

    That said, it is ridiculous the way our Benefits system works. It concentrates far too much on punishment, rather than filling jobs. The solution is simple-stop wasting massive resources on trying to punish the lazy, and concentrate on filling jobs.

    Just give benefits to the "lazy", and stop spending £Billions on trying to force them to get in everyone else's way (employers and employees) when it comes to filling jobs. Why waste employers' time with no-shows and the deliberately obstructive? Then people like your brother-in-law would get 3 people who want a job, rather than 1 who does and 7 who do not.

    PS-the real reason for the shortage is this. It takes 3 months to CRB check staff. In 3 months they will need less, not more, staff-as Summer will be over. So they are just ripping us off (and their staff) to increase profit.
    Just to be clear.
    He had 8 interviews booked.
    7 no shows.
    1 turned up that didnt want the job.
    I think that lots of people apply for jobs they dont want, just to satisfy the job centre.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.

    Unionists are viewed with barely concealed contempt

    The enigma of Elizabeth II
    How Prince Harry and Meghan Markle celebrated Lilibet's first birthday

    Recent psychological research suggests that when a citizen has to vote in a referendum eg, Brexit or a future border poll on the future of Northern Ireland that emotional feeling is more important than rational economic arguments.



    Personal feelings and political attitudes are formed by echoes of the group’s collective unconscious, childhood stories, music and memes of behaviour passed down through generations.

    Ulster unionism faces existential uncertainty. The recent scenes at the Stormont assembly are disturbing because of the intemperate, sneering viciousness of the language used by MLAs.

    Little consideration is given to the plight of unionists who are friendless internationally and viewed with barely concealed contempt by the powerful, atavistic Irish/American interest group (pictured Congressman Richard Neal at Stormont last month), the forked-tongued diplomacy of Dublin politicians who seduced EU apparatchiks in Brussels and closer to home a British prime minister, Boris Johnson, who sneers at ‘Orange Johnnies’ and edges Northern Ireland out of the UK.

    I’m sure that classicist Johnson has heard of Publius Syrus who said circa 2000 years ago: ‘Trust, like the soul, never returns once it is gone’

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/unionists-are-viewed-with-barely-concealed-contempt/ar-AAY4mda?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d14a6de910624e028b6611da4de0e484
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.

    Irish passport holders sail through as Brits left fuming in huge queues in Spain



    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/webcontent/irish-passport-holders-sail-through-as-brits-left-fuming-in-huge-queues-in-spain/wc-F27FD9A752513DB0E6ECCA9ABB07CC36?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d14a6de910624e028b6611da4de0e484
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    Just checking.

    So-Jet 2 Boss says Jet2 Airlines was caught unawares, because it did not realise how many people had booked holidays through, er, Jet2 Holidays.

    And its all Brexit's fault. Because their pay & conditions are deeply unattractive to British workers. And, 6 years ago, they needed to start planning how to manage without cheap East European labour. But couldn't be bothered.

    Rather than increasing pay or improving conditions (or applying market forces, like everyone else), Jet2 insist we should be compromising on safety at our airports. By admitting foreign workers on Visas without criminal records checks. While blaming both Brexit and the British people-apparently, it is our fault British people don't want to work for Jet2.

    As opposed to theirs. I really hate it when incompetent CEOs blame everyone else for their failure to run their business properly.

    Minister was warned staff crisis would lead to ‘inevitable’ travel chaos, says aviation union


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/minister-was-warned-staff-crisis-would-lead-to-inevitable-travel-chaos-says-aviation-union/ar-AAY5dvK?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ca93c7763c834091b308e17b00218df0
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.



    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    One little nugget from today's YouGov - every region now considers Brexit to have been a mistake.



    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/webcontent/every-region-now-considers-brexit-to-have-been-a-mistake/wc-7AE8E9EC362EEAC26B25546B59B174F9?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ca93c7763c834091b308e17b00218df0
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,862
    Essexphil said:

    In news that will shock nobody, the Tories want to reduce workers' rights, and reduce health and safety. So their rich mates can earn even more.

    The EU has very strange rules about workers' rights. All sorts of rules about workers hours. None about pay.

    'Utter nonsense' - Asda boss slams proposed Government change to stores


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/utter-nonsense-asda-boss-slams-proposed-government-change-to-stores/ar-AAY5MgR?bk=1&ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f20f896a364b4f80b8a5993b81d88c7f
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