Coronavirus, like pretty much every single virus since the dawn of time, mutates. It does this because otherwise it quickly dies out.
At the same time, medical science develops. to combat this. So, for example, vaccines are developed. And then improved, and refined, in order to combat the ever-changing threat. So, for example, the booster is more effective against more recent variants, and newer vaccines are being developed that are better still
And anyone who thinks that is a bad thing?
Thick as mince.
Interesting. So all the other coronaviruses mutated,but most that were offered a flu jab in the past,had the one jab. In all the research ever done via the WHO,the strains that are known, all mutate. So have they ever bothered in the past to chase mutations,multiple times? As they’ve never bothered before,why now?
You do know that flu is still constantly mutating, right?
That every single year people have a different flu jab, based on up-to-date medical advise about the current prevalent flu strains? Because they bother. And have done so for about 80 years.
This leaves us with 2 main possibilities so far on this thread.
1. A. @chilling understands more about coronavirus than all current virologists/epidemiologists B. @chilling understands how the world has been combating viruses in the last 50-plus years better than medical science C. @chilling understands mortality rates and the associated maths better than Actuaries D. @chilling understands the best way forward, better than all mainstream experts in the field E. @chilling has a view that has no need to be altered in light of ongoing events over the last 2 years. He was right from the very first minute-all these so-called "experts" with their fancy qualifications, show weakness when they adjust any theory in light of additional info or mutations of a virus; or
2. @chilling has a misguided sense of his own ability
That might look like a mighty impressive post to some,but the clued up will see it as ‘ toys out of the pram’.
Not at all.
I am providing facts. From the acknowledgesd experts in all of the above fields.
You are ignoring the facts. And trying to say that your theories are more important than the experts facts.
People who say stuff like "toys" and "pram" do so when they know they can't challenge the facts before them. "Have they ever bothered to chase Mutations"?
That was even better than your theory that Governments were spending £Billions so they could find out more about people who have no money
Mince. Undercooked mince.
Define "clued up" for me.
You really want me to post the BS your experts have come out with? Anybody with any intelligence,as pointed out by that Scottish guy,could pull there stories apart. They are an embarrassment.
That was even better than your theory that Governments were spending £Billions so they could find out more about people who have no money
I’ve just realised that you really haven’t got a clue, judging by the above. They have already done trials with universal income. Your theory is it’s ok for healthy people to stay at home ,and get paid. You need to print money for that.
Who said after being rough for a couple of days,then appeared six months later to say,the pandemic has cost lots of lives,but climate change will cost more?
That was even better than your theory that Governments were spending £Billions so they could find out more about people who have no money
I’ve just realised that you really haven’t got a clue, judging by the above. They have already done trials with universal income. Your theory is it’s ok for healthy people to stay at home ,and get paid. You need to print money for that.
Who said after being rough for a couple of days,then appeared six months later to say,the pandemic has cost lots of lives,but climate change will cost more?
There you go again.
Spewing out random facts. To try and avoid answering specific queries.
I haven't got a clue? I'm not sure your argument is helped by the fact that, if I don't have a clue, then neither does the Chief Medical Officer, the Actuaries, all the relevant specialist medical staff etc. Because that is what I am basing my opinion on. Their theories. Not mine.
The only bit I partly agree with was the Universal Income bit. Though I think it goes back further in relation to Bank Accounts, Job Centre "plus" etc. But it was you who claimed that this pandemic was inspired by a supposed "need" to get info on people without the internet. Not me.
Bored now. I remember when this forum used to be about more than your theories on Covid. Shame really. I suspect that you will be the end of this forum.
That was even better than your theory that Governments were spending £Billions so they could find out more about people who have no money
I’ve just realised that you really haven’t got a clue, judging by the above. They have already done trials with universal income. Your theory is it’s ok for healthy people to stay at home ,and get paid. You need to print money for that.
Who said after being rough for a couple of days,then appeared six months later to say,the pandemic has cost lots of lives,but climate change will cost more?
There you go again.
Spewing out random facts. To try and avoid answering specific queries.
I haven't got a clue? I'm not sure your argument is helped by the fact that, if I don't have a clue, then neither does the Chief Medical Officer, the Actuaries, all the relevant specialist medical staff etc. Because that is what I am basing my opinion on. Their theories. Not mine.
The only bit I partly agree with was the Universal Income bit. Though I think it goes back further in relation to Bank Accounts, Job Centre "plus" etc. But it was you who claimed that this pandemic was inspired by a supposed "need" to get info on people without the internet. Not me.
Bored now. I remember when this forum used to be about more than your theories on Covid. Shame really. I suspect that you will be the end of this forum.
I just point out the BS. It’s so easy to do.
The Wuhan virus travels around the world,mainly through flights.That results in a pandemic. With two jabs you’re ok to fly,but you can transmit the virus when doubly jabbed,as they weren’t designed to stop transmission.
The only bit I partly agree with was the Universal Income bit. Though I think it goes back further in relation to Bank Accounts, Job Centre "plus" etc. But it was you who claimed that this pandemic was inspired by a supposed "need" to get info on people without the internet. Not me.
One more. A digital code is the end goal. Preferably on the body. Whichever way they manage to do that,that’s their goal. You become the ‘ internet of things’.
Sweden chipped 1000’s early on in 2020. Clue,they already had the chips. They were discussing it on CNN,where a presenter stated she would love one of those , under her skin. All financial information,health information etc.
If you think that’s a conspiracy,then tough,they’ve already tried.
Coronavirus, like pretty much every single virus since the dawn of time, mutates. It does this because otherwise it quickly dies out.
At the same time, medical science develops. to combat this. So, for example, vaccines are developed. And then improved, and refined, in order to combat the ever-changing threat. So, for example, the booster is more effective against more recent variants, and newer vaccines are being developed that are better still
And anyone who thinks that is a bad thing?
Thick as mince.
Interesting. So all the other coronaviruses mutated,but most that were offered a flu jab in the past,had the one jab. In all the research ever done via the WHO,the strains that are known, all mutate. So have they ever bothered in the past to chase mutations,multiple times? As they’ve never bothered before,why now?
You do know that flu is still constantly mutating, right?
That every single year people have a different flu jab, based on up-to-date medical advise about the current prevalent flu strains? Because they bother. And have done so for about 80 years.
This leaves us with 2 main possibilities so far on this thread.
1. A. @chilling understands more about coronavirus than all current virologists/epidemiologists B. @chilling understands how the world has been combating viruses in the last 50-plus years better than medical science C. @chilling understands mortality rates and the associated maths better than Actuaries D. @chilling understands the best way forward, better than all mainstream experts in the field E. @chilling has a view that has no need to be altered in light of ongoing events over the last 2 years. He was right from the very first minute-all these so-called "experts" with their fancy qualifications, show weakness when they adjust any theory in light of additional info or mutations of a virus; or
2. @chilling has a misguided sense of his own ability
This is a wonderfully nuanced essay about why someone may question vaccine mandates, why they are not prepared to be forced & the precedent it sets for our global & local society.
Get a cup of tea, have a read. We do better when we understand each other.
This is a wonderfully nuanced essay about why someone may question vaccine mandates, why they are not prepared to be forced & the precedent it sets for our global & local society.
Get a cup of tea, have a read. We do better when we understand each other.
However, it is important also to be aware of some facts behind this.
This gentleman has placed his faith in "The Great Barrington Declaration", and the subsequent writings of The Brownstone Institute. People should read those, and the criticisms of them.
This is a declaration and writings from people who are controversial. The majority of US practitioners think they are both extreme right-wingers, and dangerous. They deny both of these accusations, claiming (for example) that the authors may be Right Wing, but their followers come from all walks of life.
They are big on herd immunity and natural immunity. Part of this was endorsed at the start of the epidemic in the UK, and for a time by the Trump Administration. However, both at some time decided (rightly or wrongly) to proceed down different directions, and the experts advising Governments decided this was not the best way forward.
I found this quite interesting at 1 stage. As an example, I sought medical opinion about natural immunity when I got my booster. I was informed (rightly or wrongly) that the UK had never managed to fully assess this in relation to Alpha/Delta. However, they were confident that this immunity was far lower in relation to Omicron for previous variants, in exactly the same way that the first 2 jabs offered waning protection.
On a lighter note (at least for me) I asked why I was having Pfizer, when last 2 were AZ. Answer:- "I have been told to say that it is believed that a mixture of vaccines is better..."
To which I said-"Wasn't this decision made before Omicron?"
Reply-"I am repeating what I am told to say. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe it".
For me, the case is clear. Protect yourself via the vaccines. Assume that the UK experts are better at interpreting the best way forward than you (or me) for us. And look at the clear figures that back that up.
Will that remain the case for evermore? No. At some stage we are going to have to learn to live with it. Again, I will place my faith in UK virologists/epidemiologists and the Chief Medical Officers to decide when that time has arrived in the UK.
Can Dr Chilling or Dr Vespa explain these figures please?
I’ll give it a go, although I’m not on first names terms with each patient. I’m not aware of each patients health status before admission to hospital. Or why they are classed as unvaccinated. Rate of admission to critical care with COVID per 100,000 population in that age group per week.
18-29. 0.0005%. 30-39. 0016% 40-49. 0037% 50-59. 0.012% 60-69. 0.0409%( correction from another post) 70+. 0.0107%( big group)
Boosters should not be on there,first doses late November/December. Not bad for the first modern day pandemic.
Described as absolutely shocking figures in the press though.
Are you going to have a go at why 60-69 are higher than 70+? Pfizer did discover viagra,btw.
News NHS delivers over three million COVID boosters in first month 15 October 2021 Coronavirus More than three million top up COVID-19 jabs have been delivered in just four weeks, as the NHS vaccination rollout continues to protect those most at risk from coronavirus.
A total of 3.1 million top ups have been administered with two in five people aged 50 and over who are eligible already coming forward for their extra jab.
More than a third of health and care workers who are eligible have also had their booster vaccine.
England’s top GP and deputy lead for the NHS COVID-19 vaccine programme, Dr Nikki Kanani, is one of the three million people to have received her booster vaccine and urged others to get their top up protection ahead of winter.
The NHS kicked off the booster programme on September 16,
within two days of updated advice from the JCVI.
Millions of people have already been invited by text, email and letter encouraging them to book in online through the national booking service.
More than 82 million vaccinations have been delivered, and well over four in five adults have had both doses, since the NHS in England made history when Margaret Keenan received the first jab in December.
Dr Nikki Kanani, GP and Deputy Lead for the NHS COVID-19 Vaccination Programme, said: “We’ve already seen a fantastic response to the booster vaccination programme, with over three million doses already given, so if you are waiting to get that vital protection please come forward today.
“I’ve had my vaccine already in the local pharmacy and it was really straightforward, so when you get that important invite please come forward and protect yourself and your family this winter”.
Currently around 6.5 million people in England are eligible for a booster including health and care workers, those with underlying health conditions and people aged 50 and over.
People who are eligible will be invited for their booster shot at least six months on from their second dose, in line with independent expert advice – the number of people who are eligible changes daily as additional people reach six months since their second jab.
Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid said: “NHS staff and volunteers continue to do an amazing job delivering our phenomenal vaccine rollout, and it is excellent to see that three million people have already come forward for booster vaccines and third doses in England alone.
News NHS delivers over three million COVID boosters in first month 15 October 2021 Coronavirus More than three million top up COVID-19 jabs have been delivered in just four weeks, as the NHS vaccination rollout continues to protect those most at risk from coronavirus.
A total of 3.1 million top ups have been administered with two in five people aged 50 and over who are eligible already coming forward for their extra jab.
More than a third of health and care workers who are eligible have also had their booster vaccine.
England’s top GP and deputy lead for the NHS COVID-19 vaccine programme, Dr Nikki Kanani, is one of the three million people to have received her booster vaccine and urged others to get their top up protection ahead of winter.
The NHS kicked off the booster programme on September 16, within two days of updated advice from the JCVI.
Millions of people have already been invited by text, email and letter encouraging them to book in online through the national booking service.
More than 82 million vaccinations have been delivered, and well over four in five adults have had both doses, since the NHS in England made history when Margaret Keenan received the first jab in December.
Dr Nikki Kanani, GP and Deputy Lead for the NHS COVID-19 Vaccination Programme, said: “We’ve already seen a fantastic response to the booster vaccination programme, with over three million doses already given, so if you are waiting to get that vital protection please come forward today.
“I’ve had my vaccine already in the local pharmacy and it was really straightforward, so when you get that important invite please come forward and protect yourself and your family this winter”.
Currently around 6.5 million people in England are eligible for a booster including health and care workers, those with underlying health conditions and people aged 50 and over.
People who are eligible will be invited for their booster shot at least six months on from their second dose, in line with independent expert advice – the number of people who are eligible changes daily as additional people reach six months since their second jab.
Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid said: “NHS staff and volunteers continue to do an amazing job delivering our phenomenal vaccine rollout, and it is excellent to see that three million people have already come forward for booster vaccines and third doses in England alone.
Not quite May though,is it. All the others are from May. Then add on a possibly two weeks for it to become effective,and if it becomes effective for an individual. Others can back the jabs, their choice,I see flaws all over the place though. The top two question marks relate to discrepancies with the truth. Somebody is being economical with the truth, so best find out,it might be regarded as important,for the consumer. There’s rather a lot of NHS staff off with your COVID ,apparently. I don’t think that was the same last flu season. Looks like self inflicted chaos to me.
For folks that like analysing hands,it’s rather odd they think that chart represents anything of importance. I think it’s had the same treatment as a swab sample. 50X.
The above is not about the booster,but the time gap is supposed to be the same. The questions marks go against what two others have said in Parliament. Going back to that chart. That time period covered demos where hundreds of thousands attended,plus those parks that were packed,and other well attended events,non socially distanced.Dont say they were jabbed, not many youngsters were. Pfizers jabs for youngsters trial is supposed to end in 2025.Really? It appears that there’s no fall out from mass events. That doesn’t fit the narrative. Wasn’t the old Delta around at that time? The same delta that the media were all over in India,for about three days.
Where’s the media when it comes to other countries around the world? The UK is looking a bit like a flag ship for something. More popcorn for the Chill. @MISTY4ME
Anti-vax father, 45, who ignored wife's pleas to get vaccine dies of Covid after three weeks in hospital
Gligor Kedioski, who lived in Liverpool with his wife Bolyana and their five-year-old daughter (all pictured in main image), died of Covid-19 aged 45 on January 2 after being admitted to hospital in December. Friends and family are not sure how he contracted the virus, but Gligor had not been vaccinated, despite his wife Bilyana's attempts to persuade him. Now, they are battling to repatriate Gligor's body to his native country of Macedonia, in line with his wishes. Born in Prilep, Gligor (inset, with his wife and daughter) worked in a factory and as a delivery driver during the pandemic. Paying tribute to the father-of-one, his friends described him a generous man who was full of life and always talking about life's next adventure.
Comments
I wonder what the newly printed money is for?
That was even better than your theory that Governments were spending £Billions so they could find out more about people who have no money
I’ve just realised that you really haven’t got a clue, judging by the above.
They have already done trials with universal income.
Your theory is it’s ok for healthy people to stay at home ,and get paid.
You need to print money for that.
Who said after being rough for a couple of days,then appeared six months later to say,the pandemic has cost lots of lives,but climate change will cost more?
Spewing out random facts. To try and avoid answering specific queries.
I haven't got a clue? I'm not sure your argument is helped by the fact that, if I don't have a clue, then neither does the Chief Medical Officer, the Actuaries, all the relevant specialist medical staff etc. Because that is what I am basing my opinion on. Their theories. Not mine.
The only bit I partly agree with was the Universal Income bit. Though I think it goes back further in relation to Bank Accounts, Job Centre "plus" etc. But it was you who claimed that this pandemic was inspired by a supposed "need" to get info on people without the internet. Not me.
Bored now. I remember when this forum used to be about more than your theories on Covid. Shame really. I suspect that you will be the end of this forum.
The Wuhan virus travels around the world,mainly through flights.That results in a pandemic.
With two jabs you’re ok to fly,but you can transmit the virus when doubly jabbed,as they weren’t designed to stop transmission.
You don’t feel the need to question anything?
I don’t think I’ll bother with you.
The only bit I partly agree with was the Universal Income bit. Though I think it goes back further in relation to Bank Accounts, Job Centre "plus" etc. But it was you who claimed that this pandemic was inspired by a supposed "need" to get info on people without the internet. Not me.
One more.
A digital code is the end goal. Preferably on the body.
Whichever way they manage to do that,that’s their goal.
You become the ‘ internet of things’.
Sweden chipped 1000’s early on in 2020. Clue,they already had the chips.
They were discussing it on CNN,where a presenter stated she would love one of those , under her skin. All financial information,health information etc.
If you think that’s a conspiracy,then tough,they’ve already tried.
Get a cup of tea, have a read. We do better when we understand each other.
https://www.coryzue.com/writing/coming-clean/
However, it is important also to be aware of some facts behind this.
This gentleman has placed his faith in "The Great Barrington Declaration", and the subsequent writings of The Brownstone Institute. People should read those, and the criticisms of them.
This is a declaration and writings from people who are controversial. The majority of US practitioners think they are both extreme right-wingers, and dangerous. They deny both of these accusations, claiming (for example) that the authors may be Right Wing, but their followers come from all walks of life.
They are big on herd immunity and natural immunity. Part of this was endorsed at the start of the epidemic in the UK, and for a time by the Trump Administration. However, both at some time decided (rightly or wrongly) to proceed down different directions, and the experts advising Governments decided this was not the best way forward.
I found this quite interesting at 1 stage. As an example, I sought medical opinion about natural immunity when I got my booster. I was informed (rightly or wrongly) that the UK had never managed to fully assess this in relation to Alpha/Delta. However, they were confident that this immunity was far lower in relation to Omicron for previous variants, in exactly the same way that the first 2 jabs offered waning protection.
On a lighter note (at least for me) I asked why I was having Pfizer, when last 2 were AZ. Answer:-
"I have been told to say that it is believed that a mixture of vaccines is better..."
To which I said-"Wasn't this decision made before Omicron?"
Reply-"I am repeating what I am told to say. It doesn't necessarily mean I believe it".
For me, the case is clear. Protect yourself via the vaccines. Assume that the UK experts are better at interpreting the best way forward than you (or me) for us. And look at the clear figures that back that up.
Will that remain the case for evermore? No. At some stage we are going to have to learn to live with it. Again, I will place my faith in UK virologists/epidemiologists and the Chief Medical Officers to decide when that time has arrived in the UK.
I’m not aware of each patients health status before admission to hospital.
Or why they are classed as unvaccinated.
Rate of admission to critical care with COVID per 100,000 population in that age group per week.
18-29. 0.0005%.
30-39. 0016%
40-49. 0037%
50-59. 0.012%
60-69. 0.0409%( correction from another post)
70+. 0.0107%( big group)
Boosters should not be on there,first doses late November/December.
Not bad for the first modern day pandemic.
Described as absolutely shocking figures in the press though.
Are you going to have a go at why 60-69 are higher than 70+?
Pfizer did discover viagra,btw.
This is from the NHS website........
https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/10/nhs-delivers-over-three-million-covid-boosters-in-first-month/
News
NHS delivers over three million COVID boosters in first month
15 October 2021
Coronavirus
More than three million top up COVID-19 jabs have been delivered in just four weeks, as the NHS vaccination rollout continues to protect those most at risk from coronavirus.
A total of 3.1 million top ups have been administered with two in five people aged 50 and over who are eligible already coming forward for their extra jab.
More than a third of health and care workers who are eligible have also had their booster vaccine.
England’s top GP and deputy lead for the NHS COVID-19 vaccine programme, Dr Nikki Kanani, is one of the three million people to have received her booster vaccine and urged others to get their top up protection ahead of winter.
The NHS kicked off the booster programme on September 16,
within two days of updated advice from the JCVI.Millions of people have already been invited by text, email and letter encouraging them to book in online through the national booking service.
More than 82 million vaccinations have been delivered, and well over four in five adults have had both doses, since the NHS in England made history when Margaret Keenan received the first jab in December.
Dr Nikki Kanani, GP and Deputy Lead for the NHS COVID-19 Vaccination Programme, said: “We’ve already seen a fantastic response to the booster vaccination programme, with over three million doses already given, so if you are waiting to get that vital protection please come forward today.
“I’ve had my vaccine already in the local pharmacy and it was really straightforward, so when you get that important invite please come forward and protect yourself and your family this winter”.
Currently around 6.5 million people in England are eligible for a booster including health and care workers, those with underlying health conditions and people aged 50 and over.
People who are eligible will be invited for their booster shot at least six months on from their second dose, in line with independent expert advice – the number of people who are eligible changes daily as additional people reach six months since their second jab.
Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid said: “NHS staff and volunteers continue to do an amazing job delivering our phenomenal vaccine rollout, and it is excellent to see that three million people have already come forward for booster vaccines and third doses in England alone.
Others can back the jabs, their choice,I see flaws all over the place though.
The top two question marks relate to discrepancies with the truth. Somebody is being economical with the truth, so best find out,it might be regarded as important,for the consumer.
There’s rather a lot of NHS staff off with your COVID ,apparently. I don’t think that was the same last flu season. Looks like self inflicted chaos to me.
For folks that like analysing hands,it’s rather odd they think that chart represents anything of importance.
I think it’s had the same treatment as a swab sample. 50X.
The questions marks go against what two others have said in Parliament.
Going back to that chart. That time period covered demos where hundreds of thousands attended,plus those parks that were packed,and other well attended events,non socially distanced.Dont say they were jabbed, not many youngsters were. Pfizers jabs for youngsters trial is supposed to end in 2025.Really?
It appears that there’s no fall out from mass events. That doesn’t fit the narrative.
Wasn’t the old Delta around at that time?
The same delta that the media were all over in India,for about three days.
Where’s the media when it comes to other countries around the world?
The UK is looking a bit like a flag ship for something.
More popcorn for the Chill.
@MISTY4ME
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/intensive-care-doctor-says-every-222015815.html
Gligor Kedioski, who lived in Liverpool with his wife Bolyana and their five-year-old daughter (all pictured in main image), died of Covid-19 aged 45 on January 2 after being admitted to hospital in December. Friends and family are not sure how he contracted the virus, but Gligor had not been vaccinated, despite his wife Bilyana's attempts to persuade him. Now, they are battling to repatriate Gligor's body to his native country of Macedonia, in line with his wishes. Born in Prilep, Gligor (inset, with his wife and daughter) worked in a factory and as a delivery driver during the pandemic. Paying tribute to the father-of-one, his friends described him a generous man who was full of life and always talking about life's next adventure.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10393329/Father-45-ignored-wifes-pleas-vaccine-dies-Covid-three-weeks-hospital.html
https://gettr.com/post/pnrepaffa9
https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Health-and-Social-Care/NHS-Hospital-Activity/nhs-activity-and-capacity-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/nhsbeds-by-date-localhealthboard