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Check Your Energy Bills-Your Direct Debit is Decreasing

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  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 8,981
    edited September 2023
    Ta know now who not to choose as me fluffy puppy. grrrrrr
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Hi Catherine,
    Understanding EDF bills seem beyond me.
    I have looked at the latest summary this morning.
    I think I understand the calculations up to 2nd October.
    The October payment left me £22.24 in credit.
    This figure has changed from the previous summary, but I am not going to argue about for a minute.
    This is followed by a further 3 entries, all entitled reversed account charges.
    I am unclear of what this means but I assume they are credits.
    My problem is understanding why two of these entries have been credited to my account, but one has been debited.
    The first entry turned a £22.24 credit into a £32.76 debit.
    The following two turn the 32.76 debit into an £88.47 credit.
    It is very confusing.

    Kind Regards

    Tony Hayes
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    edited October 2023
    Hi Tony,

    Thank you for email and I hope you are well.

    Your account has just been updated with gas & electricity charges up to the meter readings received on 02.10.2023.

    The actual gas read was lower than the estimated reading on the previous bill.

    This has meant that the previous gas charges have had to be reversed to then calculate the correct gas charges. The meter reading on 06.09.2023 did correct the gas charges but didn't rebill the meter readings to even out the charges over the price change period. The entries show the incorrect charges being credited back and then the correct charges then being debited.

    This has now been updated on the latest bill and you accurate up to date balance is £88.47 in credit.

    Have a lovely weekend

    Catherine
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Hi Catherine,

    Thanks for your prompt reply.

    I think that I am just going to give up at this point.

    I have visited a number of forums over the last couple of weeks.

    There seems to be a lot of confusion over EDF bills.

    This does not surprise me.

    It seems that what you are saying is that,

    A reverse account charge can be a credit or a debit.

    The last 3 entries on my account are all reverse account charges.

    Two are credits, and one is a debit.

    All 3 refer to my gas supply.

    From 30th September until 4th October there are a total of 5 entries regarding my gas supply.

    This is made up of 3 debits, and 2 credits, over 5 days.

    I give up.





    Kind Regards

    Tony Hayes
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    4 Oct 2023 Reversed account charge £22.03
    Gas
    Balance £88.47 in credit

    4 Oct 2023 Reversed account charge £99.20
    Gas
    Balance £66.44 in credit

    4 Oct 2023 Reversed account charge £55.00
    Gas
    Balance £32.76 in debit

    2 Oct 2023
    You paid us £238.00 Direct debit
    Balance £22.24 in credit

    1 Oct 2023
    We debited your account £0.67
    For 5 kWh of Gas used between 1 Oct 2023 and 1 Oct 2023
    Balance £215.76 in debit

    1 Oct 2023
    We debited your account £3.48
    For 10 kWh of Electricity used between 1 Oct 2023 and 1 Oct 2023
    Balance £215.09 in debit

    30 Sep 2023
    We debited your account £58.09
    For 408 kWh of Gas used between 1 Jul 2023 and 30 Sep 2023
    Balance £211.61 in debit
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 168,715

    @HAYSIE

    I think you should write them a letter Tony.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66992865
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Tikay10 said:


    @HAYSIE

    I think you should write them a letter Tony.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66992865

    Or two.

    From 30th September until 4th October there are a total of 5 entries regarding my gas supply.

    This is made up of 3 debits, and 2 credits, over 5 days.

    I give up.
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,042
    the fact is they blatenty commit fraud break the law and will get away with it in the vast majority of cases and massively profit from it.

    I cant even get my energy supplier to give all the information they have on us under the data protection act they refuse to provide any assistance and say find it on their website to fill in form but its impossible to find on their website I would actually have to spend thousands on lawyers to take them to court to get my information which when I did they would likely surrender it before court and I stuck with the costs.

    surely when they over charge people we should be due a lot of compensation otherwise what reason what so ever is there for them niot to just delibrately rip people of its a complete free roll.
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,042
    Doubleme said:

    the fact is they blatenty commit fraud break the law and will get away with it in the vast majority of cases and massively profit from it.

    I cant even get my energy supplier to give all the information they have on us under the data protection act they refuse to provide any assistance and say find it on their website to fill in form but its impossible to find on their website I would actually have to spend thousands on lawyers to take them to court to get my information which when I did they would likely surrender it before court and I stuck with the costs.

    surely when they over charge people we should be due a lot of compensation otherwise what reason what so ever is there for them niot to just delibrately rip people of its a complete free roll.

    we are with ovo btw just on the off chance someone can find the data protection stuff on their website.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Doubleme said:

    Doubleme said:

    the fact is they blatenty commit fraud break the law and will get away with it in the vast majority of cases and massively profit from it.

    I cant even get my energy supplier to give all the information they have on us under the data protection act they refuse to provide any assistance and say find it on their website to fill in form but its impossible to find on their website I would actually have to spend thousands on lawyers to take them to court to get my information which when I did they would likely surrender it before court and I stuck with the costs.

    surely when they over charge people we should be due a lot of compensation otherwise what reason what so ever is there for them niot to just delibrately rip people of its a complete free roll.

    we are with ovo btw just on the off chance someone can find the data protection stuff on their website.
    TONY HETHERINGTON: Madness... the way Ovo works out its energy bills


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/tony-hetherington-madness-the-way-ovo-works-out-its-energy-bills/ar-AA1hR4Qa?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a1e0b032682d4741b46627fc8e456ab7&ei=32
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,042
    HAYSIE said:

    Doubleme said:

    Doubleme said:

    the fact is they blatenty commit fraud break the law and will get away with it in the vast majority of cases and massively profit from it.

    I cant even get my energy supplier to give all the information they have on us under the data protection act they refuse to provide any assistance and say find it on their website to fill in form but its impossible to find on their website I would actually have to spend thousands on lawyers to take them to court to get my information which when I did they would likely surrender it before court and I stuck with the costs.

    surely when they over charge people we should be due a lot of compensation otherwise what reason what so ever is there for them niot to just delibrately rip people of its a complete free roll.

    we are with ovo btw just on the off chance someone can find the data protection stuff on their website.
    TONY HETHERINGTON: Madness... the way Ovo works out its energy bills


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/tony-hetherington-madness-the-way-ovo-works-out-its-energy-bills/ar-AA1hR4Qa?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a1e0b032682d4741b46627fc8e456ab7&ei=32
    from what I read OVO have 5 million customers therefore if they rip off each customer for say £500 a year which is a very small nominal amount compared to the figures i keep reading about, that would be £2.5billion a year. when a customer fights it they usually will get nowhere unless they are willing to go to court and fight magic circle lawyers.
    (magic circle lawyers is a term I have heard people in business use for very expensive lawyers who can find any loophole in the law and pretty much allow they clients to get away with almost anything it does not mean they actually do witch craft in a circle)

    most people will not have the funds the time the balls or the know how to fight back. The few that do they can settle with but still run away with billions.

    is £100 really fair compensation for thousands in over charges? if so what possible incentive is there for them not to do this?

    in fact if that is the case and I was a shareholder in another energy company knowing ovo could profit like this could I not have a case to sue that other energy company for not been shisters like this arguing they are not acting in the shareholders interest?

    Its like if the law said If I was caught robbing property I would have to give everything stolen back but no jail time or sentence of any kind. So like every time I would try it would be a complete free roll? if I had no conscience what would be the logical reason not to do this then?

  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,658
    edited October 2023
    Just a quick note about "magic circle" lawyers.

    It is a term falling out of favour in legal circles, as it tended to be London-centric, and these days it is all about "global elite" firms.

    They are large firms. With massive turnover. But they go where the money is. Which is most certainly not Consumer Law. Wouldn't surprise me if, out of their thousands of employees, they have precisely 0 who are Consumer Law experts.

    The other thing to mention is that (in England and Wales) claims where less than £10,000 are in dispute are heard by the Small Claims Division of the County Court. Where legal costs are not normally paid by the loser to the winner.

  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,042
    Essexphil said:

    Just a quick note about "magic circle" lawyers.

    It is a term falling out of favour in legal circles, as it tended to be London-centric, and these days it is all about "global elite" firms.

    They are large firms. With massive turnover. But they go where the money is. Which is most certainly not Consumer Law. Wouldn't surprise me if, out of their thousands of employees, they have precisely 0 who are Consumer Law experts.

    The other thing to mention is that (in England and Wales) claims where less than £10,000 are in dispute are heard by the Small Claims Division of the County Court. Where legal costs are not normally paid by the loser to the winner.

    thing is I dont know what is reasonable or not I mean the stress of the way they have behaved aggrevates my girlfriends disability and that keeps her off work for longer and etc can you claim amounts for stress and unreasonable behaviour?

    do i just go for the max eg £9999 or something knowing i will likely get less then that like they do in america or does that make me get laughed out of the claims court? without spending more money then the claim may be worth on legal fees for a claim which may not be valid (it should be but what I reckon is right is not necessarily agreed with the law and I do not know the law)

    because my thinking was get detailed notes on everything try and claim the max from the small claims court and then if I win maybe they give me a grand or two is that the way to do it?

    like in america people often sue for £100 billion knowing they likely may only get 2 million if successful etc.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,658
    Doubleme said:

    Essexphil said:

    Just a quick note about "magic circle" lawyers.

    It is a term falling out of favour in legal circles, as it tended to be London-centric, and these days it is all about "global elite" firms.

    They are large firms. With massive turnover. But they go where the money is. Which is most certainly not Consumer Law. Wouldn't surprise me if, out of their thousands of employees, they have precisely 0 who are Consumer Law experts.

    The other thing to mention is that (in England and Wales) claims where less than £10,000 are in dispute are heard by the Small Claims Division of the County Court. Where legal costs are not normally paid by the loser to the winner.

    thing is I dont know what is reasonable or not I mean the stress of the way they have behaved aggrevates my girlfriends disability and that keeps her off work for longer and etc can you claim amounts for stress and unreasonable behaviour?

    do i just go for the max eg £9999 or something knowing i will likely get less then that like they do in america or does that make me get laughed out of the claims court? without spending more money then the claim may be worth on legal fees for a claim which may not be valid (it should be but what I reckon is right is not necessarily agreed with the law and I do not know the law)

    because my thinking was get detailed notes on everything try and claim the max from the small claims court and then if I win maybe they give me a grand or two is that the way to do it?

    like in america people often sue for £100 billion knowing they likely may only get 2 million if successful etc.
    You can only claim for stress if you have a medical report from a medical expert providing evidence of both injury and the cause.

    As for the rest? I would recommend taking advice before going down that path. The only thing that I agree with is where you say "I do not know the Law". I very much fear your attempts at Law would be like my attempts at car mechanics.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    I may have to do a @Tikay10, and give up on trying to understand how these bills work.
    For the last couple of months I have been sending off meter readings at the beginning of each month.
    I sent them off this morning.
    They updated my account remarkably quickly.
    I was £88 in credit.
    I am now £17 in debit.
    This does not take in to account the £238 direct debit, which left my bank yesterday.
    So once they process the payment, I will be back in credit.
    A simple calculation shows that my total bill for October is £105.
    We have had the heating on a bit last month.

    This is the bit I cant understand.
    You would think that the bill for October would be higher than the Summer months.
    Yet the bill is £105, and I pay them £238 per month, every month.
    So why wasnt I more in credit?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    edited November 2023
    HAYSIE said:

    I may have to do a @Tikay10, and give up on trying to understand how these bills work.
    For the last couple of months I have been sending off meter readings at the beginning of each month.
    I sent them off this morning.
    They updated my account remarkably quickly.
    I was £88 in credit.
    I am now £17 in debit.
    This does not take in to account the £238 direct debit, which left my bank yesterday.
    So once they process the payment, I will be back in credit.
    A simple calculation shows that my total bill for October is £105.
    We have had the heating on a bit last month.

    This is the bit I cant understand.
    You would think that the bill for October would be higher than the Summer months.
    Yet the bill is £105, and I pay them £238 per month, every month.
    So why wasnt I more in credit?

    Hi Catherine,

    Dealing with EDF was easy when I took no interest in my account.

    Now that I have taken an interest, I am finding it extremely difficult.

    As I previously said, I couldnt possibly understand why there would be five adjustments in five days, although two of which have since disappeared.

    My account stood at £88 in credit.

    I sent meter readings off on 2nd November.

    While I was still logged in my account was adjusted.

    I was surprised at how quickly this occurred.

    I could only assume that this was as a result of the meter readings.

    This adjustment turned an £88 credit, into a £17 debit.

    As I have sent meter readings through on a monthly basis for the last few months, this led me to believe that my bill for the month was £105.

    If the meter readings didnt lead to the adjustment, what did?

    As my direct debit of 1st November hadnt been processed, this led me to assume that the payment of £238, would result in my account being approximately £221 in credit.

    Some time later I checked my account, and was surprised to find that there had been a further adjustment, and that it was only £160.99 in credit.

    So maybe you could explain the reason for the adjustment of 2nd November?

    While going through the summary again, I note that the reason for at least some of the "reverse account charges" are because you have charged me twice for the same periods.

    This does not inspire any confidence.


    I also cant help wondering that based on the actual bill for October, the fact that I pay £238 per month, every month, and that my consumption in October will exceed that of the Summer months, why my account is not further in credit.


    Kind Regards

    Tony Hayes
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Hi Tony,

    Yes, when a meter read is received the account can automatically rebill to it.

    The direct debit amount will adjust based on the reads and expected usage at the property.

    In respect of the direct debit balance of £160.99.

    Although we take the payment on the 1st, we apply for a payment 5 days early so the balance already included the November payment. This shows as it was a pending payment but is included any bills produced.

    The reverse charges are where we have rebilled accurately however we can't bill you to the same reads twice and this is just to shows the original charges have have been reversed.

    Hopefully this answers your queries but anything else please let me know.

    Thanks Carl
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    edited November 2023
    Hi Carl,

    Perhaps its my fault, and I am not explaining myself properly.

    My confusion started when you processed the government refunds three times.

    You sent the refunds to my bank, then deducted them from my account, before adding them to my bill.

    I found this confusing.

    You quickly followed this by making five adjustments to my bill in five days.

    Although two have since disappeared.

    I now realise that two of these adjustments were in respect of the fact that you had charged me twice for the period 3rd June until 30th June.

    This can be clearly seen in my payment history in respect of the gas bill, although one of the entries regarding the electricity bill appears to have disappeared since yesterday.

    You billed me £22.03 for gas, on 30th June, and again on 7th September, you did the same thing in respect of the electricity, but one of the entries has been deleted.

    If this is not the case, then maybe you could explain the reason for the reverse account charges?

    Adjustments that retrospectively disappear can only cause confusion, and create suspicion.

    You seem to have failed to grasp the point I was making about my meter readings.

    I sent the readings off on 2nd November.

    On the same day you adjusted my account.

    I assumed that this was in respect of the meter readings.

    What other reason would you have?

    So on the 2nd November my account was £17 in debit, whereas it was previously £88 in credit.

    At this point it was clear from the summary that my direct debit from 1st November had not been processed.

    This led me to believe that I would be £238 in credit, less the £17 debit, therefore around £221 in credit.

    However you made a further adjustment a few days later, after processing my direct debit, showing that I am only £160.99 in credit.

    Why would you adjust my account on 2nd November, unless it was in respect of the meter readings?

    If this was the case, then please explain the discrepancy?






    Payment history

    1
    Nov
    2023
    We debited your account £59.74

    For 717 kWh of Gas used between 2 Oct 2023 and 1 Nov 2023

    Balance £160.99 in credit
    1
    Nov
    2023
    We debited your account £105.74

    For 324 kWh of Electricity used between 2 Oct 2023 and 1 Nov 2023

    Balance £220.73 in credit
    1
    Nov
    2023
    You paid us £238.00

    Direct debit
    Balance £326.47 in credit
    4
    Oct
    2023
    Reversed account charge £22.03

    Gas
    Balance £88.47 in credit
    4
    Oct
    2023
    Reversed account charge £99.20

    Gas
    Balance £66.44 in credit
    4
    Oct
    2023
    Reversed account charge £55.00


    Gas
    Balance £32.76 in debit
    2
    Oct
    2023
    You paid us £238.00

    Direct debit
    Balance £22.24 in credit
    1
    Oct
    2023
    We debited your account £0.67

    For 5 kWh of Gas used between 1 Oct 2023 and 1 Oct 2023

    Balance £215.76 in debit
    1
    Oct
    2023
    We debited your account £3.48

    For 10 kWh of Electricity used between 1 Oct 2023 and 1 Oct 2023

    Balance £215.09 in debit
    30
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £58.09

    For 408 kWh of Gas used between 1 Jul 2023 and 30 Sep 2023

    Balance £211.61 in debit
    30
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £87.36

    For 246 kWh of Electricity used between 7 Sep 2023 and 30 Sep 2023

    Balance £153.52 in debit
    7
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £22.03

    For 132 kWh of Gas used between 3 Jun 2023 and 30 Jun 2023


    Balance £66.16 in debit
    6
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £55.00

    For -728 kWh of Gas used between 4 Sep 2023 and 6 Sep 2023

    Balance £44.13 in debit
    6
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £65.10

    For 210 kWh of Electricity used between 4 Sep 2023 and 6 Sep 2023

    Balance £99.13 in debit
    3
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £177.89

    For 472 kWh of Electricity used between 1 Jul 2023 and 3 Sep 2023

    Balance £34.03 in debit
    3
    Sep
    2023
    We debited your account £99.20

    For 1047 kWh of Gas used between 1 Jul 2023 and 3 Sep 2023

    Balance £143.86 in credit
    1
    Sep
    2023
    You paid us £238.00

    Direct debit
    Balance £243.06 in credit
    27
    Jul
    2023
    You paid us £238.00

    Cash
    Balance £5.06 in credit
    30
    Jun
    2023
    We debited your account £111.91

    For 291 kWh of Electricity used between 3 Jun 2023 and 30 Jun 2023

    Balance £232.94 in debit
    30
    Jun
    2023
    We debited your account £22.03

    For 132 kWh of Gas used between 3 Jun 2023 and 30 Jun 2023


    Balance £121.03 in debit
    28
    Jun
    2023
    You paid us £238.00

    Cash
    Balance £99.00 in debit
    1
    Jun
    2023
    Balance Transfer £337.00 debit

    Balance transfer
    Balance £337.00 in debit

    Kind Regards

    Tony Hayes
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    edited April 4
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,517
    Tikay10 said:


    @HAYSIE

    I think you should write them a letter Tony.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66992865

    I logged into EDF on Monday to send my meter readings off.
    While I was there I noticed they had introduced a new tariff.
    It was called 1YrApr25.
    I was a bit sceptical, as I only signed up for the last one in January.
    They headlined it as their cheapest tariff.
    So I switched.
    They didnt charge me for getting out of the other one.
    I got an email off them today, saying that they have reduced my direct debit by £73 per month from May.
    I knew the prices were being reduced, but I wasnt expecting that much.
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