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Israeli ministers threaten to resign over cease-fire proposal

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    EnutEnut Member Posts: 3,339

    stokefc said:
    Great read that, and quite insightful.

    I have never sought to defend religion and have often stated that it is sometimes used by vile people to commit and then try and justify heinous acts.

    There is much I despise about my own Religion, from pervert priests and the abuses of unmarried mothers, through to the sickening riches of the Roman Catholic Church and the vast wealth of The C of E.

    Then there are those who cherry pick pieces of text and twist it to fit a narrative, usually to benefit themselves or to justify some outlandish claim.


    I suppose it's a sign of just how disenfranchised many have become that the new multi denominational Churches are growing whilst the mainstream are losing worshipers.

    For my part I'm far more likely to get into a spat with another Christian than I am an atheist or agnostic. I don't have a problem with them at all, in fact 2 of my 3 kids are atheist and the other whilst believing, questions and challenges everything.
    Good post. The highlighted part summarised the very worst of religion in my opinion and I know people who have suffered abuse at the hands of clergy. Inexcusable. How the various religions have in the past and continue nowadays to protect the perpetrators sickens me. I remember once watching a documentary about the abuse carried out by a priest and a spokesman for the church said of a pervert priest (who they they moved from diocese to diocese when the abuse came to light) 'he does more good than harm'! No, no he doesn't, especially if you are an 8 year old choirboy and for the church not to recognise that is criminal.

    Let's look at homelessness and the poor and I know you personally do some good stuff helping those in need, well done for that. But the major religions in the UK are wealthy enough and own enough property that they could probably end homelessness overnight. Yet they chose not to.

    I have absolutely no problem with people having religion, whatever floats their boat. I certainly wouldn't condemn them in the same way that they sometimes condemn non believers, but the people at the top of the religious tree? They're certainly not there to do as much good as they could.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
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    mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,535
    Palastinian Ambassador to the UK speaking on the BBC.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/tjO_MNh-L1E?si=cxEfuXAOYX1p1elM
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,368
    mumsie said:

    Palastinian Ambassador to the UK speaking on the BBC.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/tjO_MNh-L1E?si=cxEfuXAOYX1p1elM

    He makes a perfectly valid point.

    There have been many atrocities committed by both sides. Ant the recent one by Hamas has been 1 of the very worst.

    But the reporting is not balanced. We just have a "good guy, bad guy" mentality. As he rightly says, when has any Israeli, or any Jewish religious leader, been asked to condemn acts carried out by Israel?

    We report on Hamas as a "terrorist" organisation. And, IMHO, it is an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism, of which recent events have been particularly appalling.

    But they are not just a terrorist organisation. They are the democratically elected Government of Gaza. Democracy is not restricted to Governments I like.

    Meanwhile, the rhetoric goes on. Senseless killing on 1 side is portrayed as evil and barbaric. And on the other side a necessary act to protect borders. Whereas, to my mind, it is just not that simple.
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    mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,535
    edited October 2023
    Yes Phil,

    This springs to mind, a casual execution from 7 years ago.
    NSFW


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Bl9zAM5A4



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    Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 163,247

    Yikes, that's horrific.
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    green_beergreen_beer Member Posts: 1,846
    @mumsie stuff like that shouldnt be on youtube imo, no safe for work, not safe for kidz.....
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    mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,535

    @mumsie stuff like that shouldnt be on youtube imo, no safe for work, not safe for kidz.....

    I wish I hadn't seen it.
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    rabdenirorabdeniro Member Posts: 4,276
    It's amazin how polarizing this is, right wing is fanatical for the jews, left wing is fanatical for the arabs, am nae history buff but the British government has a lot to answer for on this.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    Essexphil said:

    mumsie said:

    Palastinian Ambassador to the UK speaking on the BBC.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/tjO_MNh-L1E?si=cxEfuXAOYX1p1elM

    He makes a perfectly valid point.

    There have been many atrocities committed by both sides. Ant the recent one by Hamas has been 1 of the very worst.

    But the reporting is not balanced. We just have a "good guy, bad guy" mentality. As he rightly says, when has any Israeli, or any Jewish religious leader, been asked to condemn acts carried out by Israel?

    We report on Hamas as a "terrorist" organisation. And, IMHO, it is an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism, of which recent events have been particularly appalling.

    But they are not just a terrorist organisation. They are the democratically elected Government of Gaza. Democracy is not restricted to Governments I like.

    Meanwhile, the rhetoric goes on. Senseless killing on 1 side is portrayed as evil and barbaric. And on the other side a necessary act to protect borders. Whereas, to my mind, it is just not that simple.
    Two wrongs.
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,458
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    mumsie said:

    Palastinian Ambassador to the UK speaking on the BBC.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/tjO_MNh-L1E?si=cxEfuXAOYX1p1elM

    He makes a perfectly valid point.

    There have been many atrocities committed by both sides. Ant the recent one by Hamas has been 1 of the very worst.

    But the reporting is not balanced. We just have a "good guy, bad guy" mentality. As he rightly says, when has any Israeli, or any Jewish religious leader, been asked to condemn acts carried out by Israel?

    We report on Hamas as a "terrorist" organisation. And, IMHO, it is an organisation that has committed acts of terrorism, of which recent events have been particularly appalling.

    But they are not just a terrorist organisation. They are the democratically elected Government of Gaza. Democracy is not restricted to Governments I like.

    Meanwhile, the rhetoric goes on. Senseless killing on 1 side is portrayed as evil and barbaric. And on the other side a necessary act to protect borders. Whereas, to my mind, it is just not that simple.
    Two wrongs.
    No two wrongs don't make a right, but you can't call one side Jewish Settlers and the other side Palestinian Terrorists.

    How about Jewish Occupiers and Palestinian Freedom Fighters or Jewish Oppressors Palestinian Subjugates.

    Hmm, that doesn't quite set the right level of Hatred from the West does it.

    What happened was abhorrent barbarity, that is undeniable, inexcusable and indefensible.

    It's just a shame that the slaughter of thousands of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli Military in the same manner, over decades, seems somewhat un-newsworthy.



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    DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 1,822
    my grandfather fled Palestine in the world war two era because they were on the side of the ****. He was Jewish. the Mufti of Jerusalem heard of it?

    they were on the side of the **** in world war two after world war two they went for the Jews in Israel almost straight away. They have consistently attacked and have stated they will not stop even if they take all of Israel they will only stop when every single jew in the world is dead.

    the history of the place goes back Millenia and has constantly changed hands throughout history.

    after the end of world war two many jews had nowhere to go and they could not exactly go and intergrade back into Germany.

    they ended up in a land by people who had been on the side of the **** who had and have sworn never to stop until every jew in the world is dead.

    during the 1967 war Israel took a lot of land they did not start the war if Ukraine managed to win back all its territory and start taking parts of Russia would you condemn that? I would be inclined to say Russia should not be allowed to invade another country and have its territory guaranteed whatever the result. Otherwise for Putin/Russia its a free roll.

    significant parts of the land that Israel took during the 1967 war is military strategically very significant. You seem to think Israel should give up this land to people who have vowed to never stop until every jew in the world is dead and have kept that word so far since world war two when that would give these guys a significant strategic benefit against them?

    @TheEdge949 do you believe in the state of Israel?

    see I do and I do not, I think the state of Israel should never have been formed that the territory should have become international land and all religions have access to it but that is probably to idealistic.

    However the state was formed and now the people that live there either have to defend the land, lie down and die or make plans for mass immigration to other countries that may not take them. based on what we saw in Afghanistan I wouldnt want to be in the later groups trying to get out.
    so what is your thoughts do you think the jews should just lay down and die and accept this fate?

    My post appears very pro Israel, I am not blind to the fact that Israel have done many unacceptable things but I feel so far this thread has been very one sided and anti Israel and people should remember there is more to this story then just "jews bad Mkay"
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,458
    It is difficult to answer that question.

    As a Christian my faith is founded in Israel, that is Israel the people not Israel the State.

    If you are asking me whether I believe in Israel as a Jewish homeland that's a different thing.

    If you look at the maps of the Holy land from Old Testament days, Israel is shown in some but not in others and that's part of the problem because the parameters have shifted many many times over The Millenia as the population fled captivity, exile, subjugation and occupation over and over again.

    If you want a reasoned geo political argument then I'm afraid you have asked the wrong person but the land was gained via a military power grab and has been kept using martial law.

    Oh and as for this thread being one sided, I suggest you look at it as a balance to the hysterical Muslim bad, Islam bad invective that the Western Press are whipping up.

    It's not about "Jews bad Mkay"

    Oy Vey or Oy Vavoy (depending on whether you want my exasperation in Yiddish or Hebrew)



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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited October 2023
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited October 2023
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,364
    edited October 2023
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