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General Election

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    Enut said:

    Just imagine if they did bring back national service, within weeks there would be numerous complaints and probably suicides (there are suicides among those that want to join the armed forces, let alone those that are forced to).

    In my view national service would actually be good for 80% of those that went through it, the problem is the other 20%, it may well break them, they're a fragile lot nowadays.

    Apparently around 30,000 will serve for a year in the army for a year.
    The other 700,000 will volunteer to work for weekends for one year, in the NHS, police, etc.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    edited May 26
    Liz Truss-What Rishi Sunak Needs To Do To Win Election



    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/scrap-net-zero-targets-win-114031557.html
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,668
    edited May 26
    Enut said:

    Just imagine if they did bring back national service, within weeks there would be numerous complaints and probably suicides (there are suicides among those that want to join the armed forces, let alone those that are forced to).

    In my view national service would actually be good for 80% of those that went through it, the problem is the other 20%, it may well break them, they're a fragile lot nowadays.

    National Service was scrapped in 1960. Because it was considered bad value and out of date. In 1960.

    We are now being told by the generation that never did National Service because their parents did not want them to go through it, that it would be really good-even though they never experienced it. It's like people who bang on about you could leave your back door open in the 1960s without being burgled.

    The numbers have been worked out on the back of a cigarette packet. We have roughly 1 million 18 year olds. Suppose for a second that is 500,000 joining the Armed Forces for a year, and 500,000 spending 25 days on community projects a year. Does anyone seriously believe you can employ, meaningfully train, and pay these people for £2.5 Billion?

    Nit going to happen. That would mean forcing young men to work unpaid. Diverting armed forces personnel into being nannies to people who do not wish to be there. At enormous cost. Which is why it was scrapped. 64 years ago.

    The main reason our Armed Forces are under strength is that not enough people want to join. We actually pay private companies to try and recruit people. And they are not persuading people to join. Hands up who thinks forcing people to train Conscripts, as opposed to volunteers, is going to help?

    This Govt can promise all sorts. Safe in the knowledge they will never have to deliver. Because they are going to lose the Election.

    If this Govt really wanted to encourage people to join the forces, don't come out with this piffle.

    Sponsor CCFs (Combined Cadet Forces) in schools. Provide a small taste of what Forces Life can be like. For people interested in learning. Because the Armed Forces offer great opportunities. But only for some people. Many of whom have no opportunity to investigate further.

    Not slave labour. To try and get votes from people who believe in the "good old days"
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,668
    Here is what the National Army Museum has to say about why National Service ended:-

    "Why did National Service end?
    The large number of men absorbed into National Service had become a burden to the Army, tying up regular soldiers in training new recruits. National Service also drained workers from the economy, which resulted in opposition from the public, the government, industry and many high-ranking officers."

    Or, to quote someone at the time:-

    ‘So, in general, here’s the youth of the country, dissipating their energies in utterly non-productive wasted activity, while the country, badly needing their labour, moulders and stagnates.’
    Corporal Ian Colquhoun - 1956-58"
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    Essexphil said:

    Here is what the National Army Museum has to say about why National Service ended:-

    "Why did National Service end?
    The large number of men absorbed into National Service had become a burden to the Army, tying up regular soldiers in training new recruits. National Service also drained workers from the economy, which resulted in opposition from the public, the government, industry and many high-ranking officers."

    Or, to quote someone at the time:-

    ‘So, in general, here’s the youth of the country, dissipating their energies in utterly non-productive wasted activity, while the country, badly needing their labour, moulders and stagnates.’
    Corporal Ian Colquhoun - 1956-58"

    Nigel Farage is on Trevor Phillips.
    He will be dominating the headlines for at least the rest of the day.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,668
    edited May 26
    When I said "back of a cigarette packet" I thought they had at least some sort of clue.

    Look at the first 2 paragraphs of this:-

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo

    So. Suppose you are an 18-year-old. Or the parent of an 18-year-old. Which is it? Is it "mandatory" national service? Or is it 1 million 18-yr-olds allowed to apply for 30,000 unpaid placements?

    What about the other 970,000? A lot of 18 year-olds and 19-year olds work in pubs, hotels and the like. Suppose you own or run a pub. Or a hotel. Or any of the millions of jobs that involve weekend working.

    Who are you going to employ? An 18-year-old, who cannot work 1 weekend in 4? Or a 19-year-old? Who has no such restriction?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    edited May 26
    Essexphil said:

    When I said "back of a cigarette packet" I thought they had at least some sort of clue.

    Look at the first 2 paragraphs of this:-

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo

    So. Suppose you are an 18-year-old. Or the parent of an 18-year-old. Which is it? Is it "mandatory" national service? Or is it 1 million 18-yr-olds allowed to apply for 30,000 unpaid placements?

    What about the other 970,000? A lot of 18 year-olds and 19-year olds work in pubs, hotels and the like. Suppose you own or run a pub. Or a hotel. Or any of the millions of jobs that involve weekend working.

    Who are you going to employ? An 18-year-old, who cannot work 1 weekend in 4? Or a 19-year-old? Who has no such restriction?

    That is a little embarassing, even for the back of a f ag packet.
  • green_beergreen_beer Member Posts: 1,936
    edited May 26
    its our education system that needs revamped to cater for everyone, not just the folk who are good at memorising facts.

    national service, its like they have run out of ideas and want to relive the past.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,668

    its our education system that needs revamped to cater for everyone, not just the folk who are good at memorising facts.

    national service, its like they have run out of ideas and want to relive the past.

    Exactly this.

    I'm not saying learning about History or Chemistry, even Latin doesn't have its place.

    But why is learning about Careers, practical Maths for everyday living, and recognising people who are good at doing stuff rather than just remembering it not just as worthy of a place?
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,668
    Essexphil said:

    its our education system that needs revamped to cater for everyone, not just the folk who are good at memorising facts.

    national service, its like they have run out of ideas and want to relive the past.

    Exactly this.

    I'm not saying learning about History or Chemistry, even Latin doesn't have its place.

    But why is learning about Careers, practical Maths for everyday living, and recognising people who are good at doing stuff rather than just remembering it not just as worthy of a place?
    Appreciate this is a bit off topic. But just a thought:-

    Knowing stuff other people do not, or remembering stuff, was really important in the days when not everyone owned the Encyclopedia Britannica.

    Everyone can use the Internet.

    Mind you, precious few lessons on how to use the internet. And precious few exams where you can access it...
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    Nigel Farage condemned for 'race baiting' after claim Muslims are 'hostile to British values'


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/nigel-farage-condemned-race-baiting-092830730.html
  • lucy4lucy4 Member Posts: 7,840
    Nigel Farage challenged on claims of Muslims being against British values.

    The Reform politician says there are young people "up and down the country in inner cities" who "in many cases are totally against our values".

    https://news.sky.com/video/nigel-farage-challenged-on-claims-of-muslims-being-against-british-values-13143315
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,065
    lucy4 said:

    Nigel Farage challenged on claims of Muslims being against British values.

    The Reform politician says there are young people "up and down the country in inner cities" who "in many cases are totally against our values".

    https://news.sky.com/video/nigel-farage-challenged-on-claims-of-muslims-being-against-british-values-13143315

    well i dont have positive things to say about Islam but then the same could be said for all religions. I think the main issue though isn't necessarily Islam but when you have mass immigration legal or otherwise from countries that have radically different values to our own, it seems fundementally absurd to assume they will come over here and have our values.

    not a fan of Nigel but sorry am I missing something here?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    Refusal to mention EU makes this election most dishonest in modern times, warns Heseltine


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/refusal-mention-eu-makes-election-100037313.html
  • goldongoldon Member Posts: 8,996
    The Surrey MPs not standing in General Election 2024 as fifth of Conservatives not fighting for seats.

    You don't have to be elected by the public to be in the next Government...
  • tai-gartai-gar Member Posts: 2,679
    HAYSIE said:

    Refusal to mention EU makes this election most dishonest in modern times, warns Heseltine


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/refusal-mention-eu-makes-election-100037313.html


    Makes much more sense to listen to a Statesman like him giving an honest opinion than a Terwat like Farage spouting nothing but bu11 5hit IMHO.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,564
    tai-gar said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Refusal to mention EU makes this election most dishonest in modern times, warns Heseltine


    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/refusal-mention-eu-makes-election-100037313.html


    Makes much more sense to listen to a Statesman like him giving an honest opinion than a Terwat like Farage spouting nothing but bu11 5hit IMHO.
    For sure.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 168,852
  • DoublemeDoubleme Member Posts: 2,065
    come who doesnt see this as exactly what it is a political trick to get votes which would result in 100s of millions of pounds been poured in to get absolutely nothing in return before it is cancelled and then spun to be a cost saving move. Meanwhile all that money been shipped to their rich mates through consulation fees and the likes.

    that money will be gained by taking from the poorest and most vulnerable in soceity whilst villifying them and calling them parasites.

    I truly hate this tory government and am terrified of them winning this election. If they can keep getting away with this I rule nothing out.
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