My guess is you haven't and I also suppose that would be because it would be highly inconvenient and financially stressful. But surely if you still have a roof over your head and enough to eat to keep alive these sacrifices are nothing compared to what these people are fleeing
We cannot integrate that many successfully that's the point and nor should we integrate ALL of them as you say we should. As a vast amount of them are not fleeing for their own safety or persecution but are economic migrants looking for better living standards by reducing ours. Haysie sums it up perfectly and more eloquently than me I cannot for the life of me see why what he has said doesn't register with you.
What's wrong with a points based system like Australia has?
I don't blame the people trying it, i blame our system for allowing it
It is therefore impossible to argue that they are fleeing war, or persecution.
They are fleeing bad lives. If they were happy they would stay. They desperately need our help. They are not cattle.
Sorry but I think if you stopped all the free handouts, healthcare, accommodation et al you would see a considerable drop in the numbers of illegals arriving.
Hand out Britain, unless you're British and homeless that is in which case you can fk right off.
Just had a thought, if so many people are that concerned then each one should take 1 into their own houses. Rich celebrity mouthpieces like Lineker could take 2 or 3. Problem solved yeah.
Didn't think so. Like Ricky Gervais says, go and greet them as they land, insist on women and children first, that'll take all of 5 seconds, then direct the 95% of young males left on the beach to the houses that all the liberal humanitarians live in.
Sorry but I think if you stopped all the free handouts, healthcare, accommodation et al you would see a considerable drop in the numbers of illegals arriving.
Hand out Britain, unless you're British and homeless that is in which case you can fk right off.
What do you think Jesus would have done? I heard he was into free handouts.
Oh goody, New Testament relevance in a Satanic Society, my favourite debating subject, especially as the context, values, standards and opinions of 2,000 years ago are very different to todays can't say anything because somebody will get offended by something culture. But hey I'm 61 and don't give a rats furry ****, but as you asked.
I think he would have retold the parable about the man removing the log from his own eye before attempting to remove the speck of dust from his neighbours. Something that Central and Local Government fails spectacularly to do.
Christ was only too aware of charity beginning at home and putting ones own house in order before looking further afield. Something more that seems to have slipped the mind lately
Yes, he occasionally fed a few thousand. But they were rare events and those he provided for were there specifically to hear him, not just random outsiders rocking up for freebies and nothing else.
In fact todays woke Government and all the acolytes masquerading in their various guises are much akin to the Pharisee of his time, eager to denounce, cancel and destroy anybody who dares have an opinion contrary to their own. Christ basically ripped these guys a new one showing them up for the pious, petty bureaucrats they were. He'd have a field day with the entitled organisations attempting to change everything to suit their own ideologies and opinions.
Ask yourself this. What better life could these people not build for themselves in France. Why is it so important that they reach Britain.
It's simple. We are the soft touch, the easy way, the bleeding heart, the inept justice system. We are the ones with stupid c*** tattooed on our forehead. That's why.
Now that's not being racist, fascist, zenophobic or even patriotic, it's being truthful no matter how much the liberals want to deny it.
Always going to be a topic that divides opinions. And pretty much everyone seems to be cast as an unrealistic Liberal or a xenophobe. In part, this is because of the way it is portrayed in the media.
Let's start with some facts. Because that is the place to start. Always.
Total number of people who came to this country illegally by boat in 2023? 29,437. Total number of people who moved long-term to this country in 2023? 1,218,000.
So-the people arriving illegally by small boat represented just under 2.5% of people coming to this country. Yet about 97.5% of the Press coverage.
Now let's look at some more facts. From the Government website via the ONS.
Let's look at Figure 2. And compare the numbers from Dec 2019 to Dec 2023.
Has total asylum applications (legal as well as illegal) gone up? Yes. It has roughly doubled-from about 40,000 a year to 80,000 a year.
Now look at Study and Work applications (for non-EU nationals) over that 4 year period.
In 2019 there were just under 100,000 people coming here to work. And 125,000 coming here to study.
In 2023 those figures had risen to 420,000 and 380,000.
Now look at Table 1, showing where people are coming to this country from-and please be aware these are not the nationalities arriving by boat. The Top 7 have more people coming in to this country legally than people arriving by small boat. The Top 6 have an increase in people coming here in the last 4 years than the total arriving by small boat.
The reasons people choose to come here are complex. We vilify the desperate. While waving in the economic migrants. Many of which we need-not least because British people refuse to do a whole host of jobs that need doing.
There is a debate to be had. With genuine arguments to be had. On both sides.
Being obscured by our fixation with just 2.5% of the Migrants. The desperate ones. The ones willing to risk their lives to come here.
Total number of people who came here by boat 29,437 that equates to a small town. Over ten years (which isn't a long period of time) that equates to a big city 294,370 (Bigger than 90% of our already existing cities) so that mere 2.5% of people over a sustained period of time manifests into a big problem. Do we have the resources to build a new city with all the infrastructure (hospitals, schools, surgeries, etc...) needed to accommodate this mere 2.5% of people every ten years. We cant even cope with current levels without adding more. Why cant we employ a points based system where we list the skills needed and if you have them and can secure a job then you can get in. If you don't then its just tough. I would love to move to Australia but I cant and that's just tough and something I have to live with. I don't call them racist or xenophobes (Like some would like to brandish us). If we can sort out the Economic Migrants then we could maybe house MORE of the people whos lives depend on it.
The Migrants even took legal action against the government for being housed on a boat, that surely was better than the lives they were fleeing but yet it wasn't luxurious enough for them it wasn't the dream they were sold. Its a mess!! I stay in a small city in Scotland and the number of foreign people begging on our streets has increased massively (Usually its organised begging with the money being sent up a chain). And who can blame these people for the shoplifting, drug dealing they need to do to feed themselves or their families because they have no means of income otherwise. We now have a problem with Albanian gangs who have flooded the place with Hash. I know this as a lot of people who I work with buy it from them. This wasn't a thing 5 years ago now its exploding. Although its a very small percentage it is still highly damaging to our society.
Nothing to do with the media we can see it with our own eyes
Like a lot of sensible debate, I agree with some of what you say. And disagree with other bits. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong.
There are always going to be people that we need to provide asylum to. Our fair share. Not more. And not less. There are always stories about the shifty ones. But never the genuine.
30,000 people in a population of 68 million is not a lot. And not when compared to the 1.2 million who come in, or 600,000 who leave every year. It's not 2.5% of people (which would be a lot). Just 2.5% of immigrants.
We have no reliable records in relation to the 400,000 coming in on study visas every year. They used to believe only 20% stayed here long-term after their study. They now believe that rather more than that stay. Even 20% is 80,000 a year-rather more than 30,000. And 600,000+ more are currently coming in than leaving. To use your example, I think we can easily cope with an extra 300,000 people over 10 years. Just like I believe we cannot cope with an additional 6 million.
Why can't we impose a points-based system? We have 1. In all bar name. And the glaring hole is that we lack people to perform basic care functions in Care Homes and the like. British people won't do it. So we have no choice but to let tens of thousands in every year to do this job that we refuse to do ourselves. Same for other jobs, too. There were various jobs that Australians lacked, and UK people with those skills could get visas. But Australia spent time and money retraining its population, to reduce that need. Not happened here.
Where I agree with you is the hopeless logjam. 225,000 people not processed. Years of delay. Probably always going to have 25,000 not processed at any 1 time. But those extra 200,000 could be (say) 150,000 refused and deported, and 50,000 working and paying taxes. Instead of being in an expensive (for the taxpayer) limbo.
Albanian murderer wins right to stay in UK under ECHR.
An Albanian wanted for murder in his home country has won the right to remain in the UK under the European Convention on Human Rights.
Fatmir Bleta, 64, left Albania two months after allegedly shooting a man in the head with a Kalashnikov rifle, for which he was convicted and sentenced in his absence to 13 years in prison.
He came to Britain with his family and sought asylum by falsely claiming to be Kosovan, a deception for which he was jailed for 33 months and two weeks in 2018.
Bleta, who has four children, successfully fought off an extradition attempt by Albania to serve the sentence by claiming he would not be entitled to a re-trial and was not told of the proceedings in advance.
In a new judgement – revealed in documents seen by the Telegraph – Bleta has succeeded in resisting an attempt by the Home Office to deport him on the grounds that it would breach his Article 6 rights to a fair trial under the ECHR.
He also appealed under Article 8 of the convention that deportation would breach his right to a family life as it would be “unduly harsh” on his loved ones.
The case comes after The Telegraph disclosed earlier this week that an Albanian criminal who sneaked back into Britain after being deported won the right to stay because deporting him would be “unduly harsh” on his family and breach the ECHR’s article 8.
It sparked fresh calls for the UK to quit or seek reform of the ECHR. Robert Jenrick, the former immigration minister and Tory leadership contender, said: “Yet again the ECHR has been used by activist judges to prioritise the rights of a criminal over the safety of the British public.
“It’s a disgrace. We will only be able to get the thousands of dangerous foreign criminals out of our country if we leave. Reform is a fantasy. It’s leave or remain – I’m firmly from leave.”
The Telegraph has also established that two of Bleta’s children have been convicted and jailed for drug offences. Son Dorian, 37, is serving an 18-year prison sentence for trafficking cocaine while daughter Sara, 28, a former actress, was jailed for four years for supplying class A and B drugs.
Like a lot of sensible debate, I agree with some of what you say. And disagree with other bits. Doesn't make me right. Or wrong.
There are always going to be people that we need to provide asylum to. Our fair share. Not more. And not less. There are always stories about the shifty ones. But never the genuine.
30,000 people in a population of 68 million is not a lot. And not when compared to the 1.2 million who come in, or 600,000 who leave every year. It's not 2.5% of people (which would be a lot). Just 2.5% of immigrants.
We have no reliable records in relation to the 400,000 coming in on study visas every year. They used to believe only 20% stayed here long-term after their study. They now believe that rather more than that stay. Even 20% is 80,000 a year-rather more than 30,000. And 600,000+ more are currently coming in than leaving. To use your example, I think we can easily cope with an extra 300,000 people over 10 years. Just like I believe we cannot cope with an additional 6 million.
Why can't we impose a points-based system? We have 1. In all bar name. And the glaring hole is that we lack people to perform basic care functions in Care Homes and the like. British people won't do it. So we have no choice but to let tens of thousands in every year to do this job that we refuse to do ourselves. Same for other jobs, too. There were various jobs that Australians lacked, and UK people with those skills could get visas. But Australia spent time and money retraining its population, to reduce that need. Not happened here.
Where I agree with you is the hopeless logjam. 225,000 people not processed. Years of delay. Probably always going to have 25,000 not processed at any 1 time. But those extra 200,000 could be (say) 150,000 refused and deported, and 50,000 working and paying taxes. Instead of being in an expensive (for the taxpayer) limbo.
I had a laptop accident yesterday.
I would agree with a lot of that. The Tories proved themselves incompetent when dealing with the problems surrounding illegal immigration. There are many ways that people can access the UK illegally. We have no means of keeping track of who is here, or where they are. Even when we catch up with illegals, we don't have a means of dealing with them.
I think that those arriving on boats wind people up so much is that they are so visible, and obvious. The numbers are reported in the press every day, and we seem incompetent in processing them. The cost is also widely publicised, and many people are able to easily think of more important ways of spending the money. Particularly in the current economic climate. Those that overstay visas, or just sneak are far less obvious, and less visible.
The Brexit vote was for many people about controlling our borders, and we are no further forward, 8 years later. In fact, the numbers arriving on small boats has increased dramatically.
I have always said we should accept our fair share, but I think it is foolish to suggest that we should accept all of them. It is also foolish to have to accept the number that the people smugglers send us, irrespective of what that number is.
Many of the job vacancies that we cant fill are for menial jobs. The Tories introduced a plan to solve this problem by setting a salary qualification. After some backlash they increased the salary qualification for a visa. This made it impossible to fill the vacancies that we have. Care workers don't get paid 30k per year. The whole thing is a complete shambles.
Try and look for how many people are currently here on Health and Care Worker Visas. If you can find it, you are a better man than me.
It's a 5-year Visa. My best guess is that there are about 250,000 people here on that Visa, plus Dependants (although that is now being curtailed). The vast majority being Care Workers.
I agree that the Majority of Care Workers do not earn £29k a year. The suspicion has always been that the Care Homes are charged £29k a year, and the "agency" they get these workers from charges a high percentage of that for handling the Visas, arranging the Workers etc
And that quite a few of those agencies are, er, people smugglers...
Comments
How many did you take?
What's wrong with a points based system like Australia has?
I don't blame the people trying it, i blame our system for allowing it
Hand out Britain, unless you're British and homeless that is in which case you can fk right off.
Didn't think so. Like Ricky Gervais says, go and greet them as they land, insist on women and children first, that'll take all of 5 seconds, then direct the 95% of young males left on the beach to the houses that all the liberal humanitarians live in.
I think he would have retold the parable about the man removing the log from his own eye before attempting to remove the speck of dust from his neighbours. Something that Central and Local Government fails spectacularly to do.
Christ was only too aware of charity beginning at home and putting ones own house in order before looking further afield. Something more that seems to have slipped the mind lately
Yes, he occasionally fed a few thousand. But they were rare events and those he provided for were there specifically to hear him, not just random outsiders rocking up for freebies and nothing else.
In fact todays woke Government and all the acolytes masquerading in their various guises are much akin to the Pharisee of his time, eager to denounce, cancel and destroy anybody who dares have an opinion contrary to their own. Christ basically ripped these guys a new one showing them up for the pious, petty bureaucrats they were. He'd have a field day with the entitled organisations attempting to change everything to suit their own ideologies and opinions.
Ask yourself this. What better life could these people not build for themselves in France.
Why is it so important that they reach Britain.
It's simple. We are the soft touch, the easy way, the bleeding heart, the inept justice system. We are the ones with stupid c*** tattooed on our forehead. That's why.
Now that's not being racist, fascist, zenophobic or even patriotic, it's being truthful no matter how much the liberals want to deny it.
Let's start with some facts. Because that is the place to start. Always.
Total number of people who came to this country illegally by boat in 2023? 29,437.
Total number of people who moved long-term to this country in 2023? 1,218,000.
So-the people arriving illegally by small boat represented just under 2.5% of people coming to this country. Yet about 97.5% of the Press coverage.
Now let's look at some more facts. From the Government website via the ONS.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023
Let's look at Figure 2. And compare the numbers from Dec 2019 to Dec 2023.
Has total asylum applications (legal as well as illegal) gone up? Yes. It has roughly doubled-from about 40,000 a year to 80,000 a year.
Now look at Study and Work applications (for non-EU nationals) over that 4 year period.
In 2019 there were just under 100,000 people coming here to work. And 125,000 coming here to study.
In 2023 those figures had risen to 420,000 and 380,000.
Now look at Table 1, showing where people are coming to this country from-and please be aware these are not the nationalities arriving by boat. The Top 7 have more people coming in to this country legally than people arriving by small boat. The Top 6 have an increase in people coming here in the last 4 years than the total arriving by small boat.
The reasons people choose to come here are complex. We vilify the desperate. While waving in the economic migrants. Many of which we need-not least because British people refuse to do a whole host of jobs that need doing.
There is a debate to be had. With genuine arguments to be had. On both sides.
Being obscured by our fixation with just 2.5% of the Migrants. The desperate ones. The ones willing to risk their lives to come here.
Shame on us.
Why cant we employ a points based system where we list the skills needed and if you have them and can secure a job then you can get in. If you don't then its just tough.
I would love to move to Australia but I cant and that's just tough and something I have to live with. I don't call them racist or xenophobes (Like some would like to brandish us). If we can sort out the Economic Migrants then we could maybe house MORE of the people whos lives depend on it.
I stay in a small city in Scotland and the number of foreign people begging on our streets has increased massively (Usually its organised begging with the money being sent up a chain). And who can blame these people for the shoplifting, drug dealing they need to do to feed themselves or their families because they have no means of income otherwise. We now have a problem with Albanian gangs who have flooded the place with
Hash. I know this as a lot of people who I work with buy it from them. This wasn't a thing 5 years ago now its exploding. Although its a very small percentage it is still highly damaging to our society.
Nothing to do with the media we can see it with our own eyes
There are always going to be people that we need to provide asylum to. Our fair share. Not more. And not less. There are always stories about the shifty ones. But never the genuine.
30,000 people in a population of 68 million is not a lot. And not when compared to the 1.2 million who come in, or 600,000 who leave every year. It's not 2.5% of people (which would be a lot). Just 2.5% of immigrants.
We have no reliable records in relation to the 400,000 coming in on study visas every year. They used to believe only 20% stayed here long-term after their study. They now believe that rather more than that stay. Even 20% is 80,000 a year-rather more than 30,000. And 600,000+ more are currently coming in than leaving. To use your example, I think we can easily cope with an extra 300,000 people over 10 years. Just like I believe we cannot cope with an additional 6 million.
Why can't we impose a points-based system? We have 1. In all bar name. And the glaring hole is that we lack people to perform basic care functions in Care Homes and the like. British people won't do it. So we have no choice but to let tens of thousands in every year to do this job that we refuse to do ourselves. Same for other jobs, too. There were various jobs that Australians lacked, and UK people with those skills could get visas. But Australia spent time and money retraining its population, to reduce that need. Not happened here.
Where I agree with you is the hopeless logjam. 225,000 people not processed. Years of delay. Probably always going to have 25,000 not processed at any 1 time. But those extra 200,000 could be (say) 150,000 refused and deported, and 50,000 working and paying taxes. Instead of being in an expensive (for the taxpayer) limbo.
An Albanian wanted for murder in his home country has won the right to remain in the UK under the European Convention on Human Rights.
Fatmir Bleta, 64, left Albania two months after allegedly shooting a man in the head with a Kalashnikov rifle, for which he was convicted and sentenced in his absence to 13 years in prison.
He came to Britain with his family and sought asylum by falsely claiming to be Kosovan, a deception for which he was jailed for 33 months and two weeks in 2018.
Bleta, who has four children, successfully fought off an extradition attempt by Albania to serve the sentence by claiming he would not be entitled to a re-trial and was not told of the proceedings in advance.
In a new judgement – revealed in documents seen by the Telegraph – Bleta has succeeded in resisting an attempt by the Home Office to deport him on the grounds that it would breach his Article 6 rights to a fair trial under the ECHR.
He also appealed under Article 8 of the convention that deportation would breach his right to a family life as it would be “unduly harsh” on his loved ones.
The case comes after The Telegraph disclosed earlier this week that an Albanian criminal who sneaked back into Britain after being deported won the right to stay because deporting him would be “unduly harsh” on his family and breach the ECHR’s article 8.
It sparked fresh calls for the UK to quit or seek reform of the ECHR. Robert Jenrick, the former immigration minister and Tory leadership contender, said: “Yet again the ECHR has been used by activist judges to prioritise the rights of a criminal over the safety of the British public.
“It’s a disgrace. We will only be able to get the thousands of dangerous foreign criminals out of our country if we leave. Reform is a fantasy. It’s leave or remain – I’m firmly from leave.”
The Telegraph has also established that two of Bleta’s children have been convicted and jailed for drug offences. Son Dorian, 37, is serving an 18-year prison sentence for trafficking cocaine while daughter Sara, 28, a former actress, was jailed for four years for supplying class A and B drugs.
I would agree with a lot of that.
The Tories proved themselves incompetent when dealing with the problems surrounding illegal immigration.
There are many ways that people can access the UK illegally.
We have no means of keeping track of who is here, or where they are.
Even when we catch up with illegals, we don't have a means of dealing with them.
I think that those arriving on boats wind people up so much is that they are so visible, and obvious.
The numbers are reported in the press every day, and we seem incompetent in processing them.
The cost is also widely publicised, and many people are able to easily think of more important ways of spending the money.
Particularly in the current economic climate.
Those that overstay visas, or just sneak are far less obvious, and less visible.
The Brexit vote was for many people about controlling our borders, and we are no further forward, 8 years later.
In fact, the numbers arriving on small boats has increased dramatically.
I have always said we should accept our fair share, but I think it is foolish to suggest that we should accept all of them.
It is also foolish to have to accept the number that the people smugglers send us, irrespective of what that number is.
Many of the job vacancies that we cant fill are for menial jobs.
The Tories introduced a plan to solve this problem by setting a salary qualification.
After some backlash they increased the salary qualification for a visa.
This made it impossible to fill the vacancies that we have.
Care workers don't get paid 30k per year.
The whole thing is a complete shambles.
It's a 5-year Visa. My best guess is that there are about 250,000 people here on that Visa, plus Dependants (although that is now being curtailed). The vast majority being Care Workers.
I agree that the Majority of Care Workers do not earn £29k a year. The suspicion has always been that the Care Homes are charged £29k a year, and the "agency" they get these workers from charges a high percentage of that for handling the Visas, arranging the Workers etc
And that quite a few of those agencies are, er, people smugglers...