People don't like to fold top pair, IDCU isn't gonna be making hero folds in a £2 tournament.
Hi Dohhhhhhh
Ty for taking the time to talk over the hand. Your thinking when it comes to analysing hands is so logical. I seem to look at pushing them off hands suggesting to them 'he's got it!' but why would i not want them in the pot? i hear you say. I hate being sucked out on after spending 2 1/2 hours on a single table and need to accept that it can happen but the probability is low. I need to adopt a different attitude to the pots i'm involved with. Have you come across a good article highlighting tis facet of the game D?
How long have you been playing D? How did you go about from the start playing various games then narrow them down to games you enjoy. Did you put a certain amount of money aside and say "i'll play a set of 10 Hup and see how i get on, whether i enjoy them" etc. I've found myself stuck playing the same types of game. I've stopped playing cash. Studied HUP for a month then played the HUP shuffle and came 2nd. You'd think that would spare me on but i only played one other before going back to the old routine of Low level mtt's max £5, DYM's, max £5.50 and DTD. I did some omaha research but left it without playing. I wonder if its because i'm NOT a gambler really. I don't bet and on't like to lose money through a lack of skill/experience. This may seem a bit sulky and introspective but i just wondered how you went about evolving your poker to play through enjoyment and some level of success. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts D as i think that you have a good slant on things as well as not taking life too seriously. I've had some tragedy in my life as most people and do see poker as something to learn and enjoy. If i stop enjoying it then i think i'd stop playing it. However, if i start losing consistently(i'm slightly winning after 16 months) then i may stop as i don't like to waste money. Unfortunately, the phrase "speculate to accumulate" doesn't quite ring true with me. I've always been a saver then felt i deserved whatever i saved for. Is there a similarity here to how you started at all?
Your thinking when it comes to analysing hands is so logical. I seem to look at pushing them off hands suggesting to them 'he's got it!' but why would i not want them in the pot? i hear you say. Posted by profman15
Yo Prof. Quite alot to go at in your post, so I'll break it up.
This is prob the easiest/least depressing bit for me to answer. lol.
I think alot of the ideas newbies get in their head about how to play are down to stuff they see on television, either by watching the old poker night live coverage, or the poker million/premier league programmes in the early days, right through to the stuff you hear on 865.
Phrases like "find out where you are" "put the decision on him" "ask a question" "find a better spot" "flipping at best" "no need to gamble" "raise for information" "see a cheap flop" etc....
These are all kinda old school ideas, that aren't exactly wrong neccesserily, they're just aplied wrongly by players who are trying to improve.
They're great for total newbies. But when you're trying to move up to the next level, ie, u know the rules, the basics about betting and position and hand values on different boards etc.....you need to start thinking differently about hands.
You need to start thinking about your opponents ranges on different boards, and how to play most effectively against the ranges you've assigned.
There's no point in "putting the opponent to the test" if he's always going to pass.
In your hand against IDCU, you "put him to a test" that even he could pass.
If you look deeper into the hand, you haven't tested him at all, you've just gifted him your chips.
Had you just 'bet the turn for information' and folded to his shove, well, what information did we get? We already know he has a King OR we are ahead. If he has a King, he shoves, if we're ahead, he folds. Both outcomes are bad for us.
Start thinking about the specific hands and ranges of your opponents. Use the board texture, his bet sizing, his tendancies to assign the range, then work out how best to play against that range. It's not easy at all, I'm pretty bad at it, but this is the challenge as a poker player to try and read the hand better, rather than using these dated cliche's to justify our bad plays.
There's no doubt poker at micro stakes can be beaten simply by playing abc stuff, good hands, good bet sizing, and good positional awareness.
But to improve, you need to start thinking deeper in to the hands.
It's really challenging!
Will post more later.
Good luck in the 2.20 if you're in it! Its mine today!!!!
Check this vid out. There are more like it in the series. It kinda explains what I've tried to explain but better.
Enjoyed the game today and apart from that awful final hand and calling the guy who had the J for a full house(was it obv?), i was fairly happy with my play. I just love your last post and it epitomises my play and the statements you say that are redundant nowadays is my absolute vocabulary( put the decision on him etc). I love the video though only half wy through but feel that i've found a new way to further my study and the approach that i have to playing pots. I was playing far too much fit/fold poker. When i got a free entry to £110 roller for winning monthly DTD i had MattBates on my lhs. He owned me from the outset and that's when i knew that my poker was seriously lacking. I recoiled into my shell and only played premium hands. The number of 3-bets, even 4-bets was double i'd seen in any other T easily. It really has been an eye opener and may give me the impetus to rekindle the buzz i had for poker before hitting the brick wall recently. As long as that info is available and well organised concerning assessing ranges ....then it seems to be more a mater of accumulating or losing chips in greater chunks as you will be more astute at recognising when you are ahead orbehind and so be able to minimise pot losses but maximise pot wins. If you come across stuff that help me progress steadily don't be afraid to pm me please Dohhhhhhh. I really appreciate it. TY
Can't even remember what happened. Not coz I was bladdered, coz I don't think anything actually happened.
I made the FT of the afternoon league and went on a rant about the absence of the 500/1k blind level.
Sitting on 14k @ 400/800 on the final table, not in great shape but a very manageable situation without antes.
Then suddenly it's shove or fold, after 2.5 hours slogging away. Just so silly, I bet it would take them literally 30 seconds to alter this. In fact I know it would be very easy. If they'd just listennnnnnnnnnnn.
eipfhcuehjuocjuiehjcjmicjwde
I posted that I'd never play it again until that level is introduced. Tempted today tho shud be a decent field and it's always quite entertaining if you get a decent table.
Must. Be. Strong.
Played some hypers again, lost loads.
Bit of PLO cash, won abit.
Cashed in velocity, and another speed comp, and won a scary MTT.
Still making do with the laptop, took the PC in for repair yesterday hoping to have it back early next week to finally get November going!
Made about 20 quid, yawn, but only played a few games on here. Need to win something decent today. Hopefully a more interesting update to come tomorrow.
How long have you been playing D? How did you go about from the start playing various games then narrow them down to games you enjoy. Did you put a certain amount of money aside and say "i'll play a set of 10 Hup and see how i get on, whether i enjoy them" etc. Posted by profman15
Part 2!
Ummm think I've been playing since I was 18, most of my alias's on other sites have '18'on the end.
I've always been quite good at stuff, without being great at anything. Cricket I represented Doncaster for a few years as a junior, but couldn't take the next step up and failed at county trials. Similar story with football, although wasn't as good. Or maybe the competition was just better, either way I always struggled to take the next step up.
School I was always like top 3% of the year, but was never first.....
Take to stuff naturally, but always struggle to improve to the next level.
This applies to my poker too. I started and was a terrible player, but found a way to win just using common sense to get by. Back in those days, I was asking questions to find out where I was alot .
I was multi accounting, without realising it was wrong. I used to slowroll other players without any idea that it was bad ettiquette. I used to collude with a mate in dyms, so blatantly, didn't even attempt to disguise it! (not on Sky btw!)
I remember a convo I had with my mate. Was sat in my car the night after I'd lost some money at poker. He asked what I was gonna do now then about poker. I said, I'm gonna make another account with a girls alias, use a womans avatar, and stick 500 on. lololol. Ofc I ballsed it all up, and got a womans sign in name, and my alias at the table was john38783 or something. fml.
So after about 6/7 weeks playing online I started to find a way to at least play for free (break even) and often find a way to make a few quid. Ofc the games were alot easier back then.
I first started building a bankroll and withdrawing regular in my 3rd year of uni, sooooo 3 yrs ago? (did a 4 yr course). That was always playing cash, I'd play MTTs occasionally but I started out as a cash player.
I came to sky when I saw 865, they were advertising the nightly open tournament, and I really wanted to play so I stuck £30 on and bought in. I ended up knocking out DP Fitzgerald wiiii. haha.
I had about a fiver left from my deposit or something like that, which I stuck on to an enhanced odds accumulator on Sky bet, and that landed at something like 12/1.
I took my winnings to the cash tables, and spun it right up to literally 10s of thousands over the last 3 years. Never having to deposit more than that initial £30. When I realised how much easier Sky was (is?) compared to my other site, I ofc took my bankroll straight off and became a 1 site player over here
I played pretty seriously throughout the last year of uni, and the first 14/15 months after leaving, making more money than I could ever have imagined I would at poker. Had a pretty epic 2 year period. Ofc this was the time when I should have been working harder than ever at my game and putting tonnes of effort in to stay ahead of the game, or at least maximise my winnings while the going was good.
But as with the cricket, the football and the studying, I didn't. I just 'did enough' and was happy being an above average poker player.
meh.
The last 18 months or so things have totally slowed down, I got very bored playing cash, and started to experiment with HU sngs. Again, at first I was very successful with these, albeit at small-ish stakes £10/20. I made a few grand in a few months (sskope ftw). My win rate was slower than at cash, but I was new to the format so it's to be expected. I wasn't too worried.
Then, inevitably, instead of working at them and getting better, I started slacking and probably got worse. My win rate and volume decreased, as did my enthusiasm, until eventually I was barely playing and barely winning.
I'm now nothing more than a recreational player. I guess I never was, but I had ambitions at one point of becoming something more than that.
So as for game selection now, I play pretty much what I want, when I want, with the bankroll to do so.
But, I don't enjoy playing unless I'm winning? I don't see how people can enjoy a game that they lose at, but obviously some people can. Maybe they're just loaded. lol.
So I still like to play moderate stakes, and try to win a few quid, I'm still capable of that if nothing else.
Without trying to get PW level deep, if you stand still in poker the game will catch up with ya eventually
The only way to stay ahead of the game is to work hard. Something I'm not very good at!
What a cracking read fella. You certainly have a good appreciation of what you've done/couldhave done in your poker time. I imagine it must be slightly difiult to still find that buzz and enjoyment. A bit like "i've done all this before". I watched the vids and the ones following it too. I was well impressed and can see that changes are needed in my game though i've no great aspirations as i just enjoy trying to improve. I tried a different approach in the Woogie yesterday....the result tells you how that went. I do wonder if your personality affects the kind of player you are as saw another vid yesterday by Grpsed on youtube talking of Nits and TAGs being risk averse and wanting to make knowingly correct by the book plays. I'm not a gambler and wonder if that's my lot as it were but if i can wedge in some more range orientated plays into my game somehow? Maybe it comes with experience of playing more. Thanks again D. Why don't you consider playing live T's ....i'd have thought that you're savvy enough to do well in them! Did i tell you i won my first ever live T not long after reading Harrington vol 1? Maybe that's why i'm clinging to its tenets, lol?
This has turned in to my own personal rubdown thread!
Friday 9th Nov............
Very un-eventful again on Sky.
I've not really looked into like MTT ROI's and what's expected too much. I'm learning the hard way though. Only playing 5-10 per night and I'm having to win 1 just to break even! I know skys MTTs are often small so this isn't that hard, but you still need to run pretty good to win an MTT and when you don't it can get expensive quite fast!
Luckily I did manage to win 1.
£3 speed, 100 gtd
DOHHHHHHH
90000
1
£64.50
ford11
0
2
£38.70
wuzletooth
0
3
£25.80
__harry__
0
4
And come 2nd in one..... (yeh yeh, 10 runners, it's just a gloryfied sng ....
£2 scary MTT...
diggerboy
97500
1
£30
DOHHHHHHH
0
2
£18
snorky
0
3
£12
beefy322
0
4
FT bubble 1 (this 1 uber frustrating)...
£5 200 gtd velo f/o....
cincin62
156000
1
£78
Bramhall21
0
2
£52
smoki3
0
3
£36.40
belladona
0
4
£26
paul10
0
5
£20.80
charsnow
0
6
£18.20
DOHHHHHHH
0
7
£15.60
pttech
0
8
£13
And stone bubble 1!!!!
£5r £100 gtd speed.
smoki3
83000
1
£97.50
woody1956
0
2
£58.50
petrini03
0
3
£39
DOHHHHHHH
0
4
Ofc I also stone bubbled this, entirely my fault, for £110.
£9.60 sat to £110 event...
jonnyrkd
75000
1
£5,000 B/Hunter
Donttelmum
0
2
£5,000 B/Hunter
DOHHHHHHH
0
3
So Sky offer 4 speed tournaments in an evening. I won 1, came 2nd in one, FT bubbled one, and bricked one.
And made about £20 overall. (including losses from a few other tournaments)
Lost this £20 on forum cash running like pish against a compilation of plonkers obv.
Need some speed tournaments desperately. scratching around in these games for a top prize of like £30-80 quid is too difficult. It's imposs to make anything. Need some comps with £150-250 ftw.
Thews @ 10, lucky 7s and the $500 velo rebuy/fo come to mind. Or something totally new, idk.
Been playing abit on FTP. Transferred $17 over from my PS account and have got that going up to nearly $200, only played 4 rush mtts, a 2nd, min cash, bubble and a brick! I'll take that ratio over hundreds though
PC is back!!!! I haven't plugged it all in yet though, I need to remember where all the leads n stuff go. I'm avoiding it tbh, and also dreading turning it on and it all being weird/not working.
Prob playing today though. Although I dnt know what yet.
Bet of the day returns - Brendan Dolan to beat Paul Nicholson in the darts this afternoon @ 11/8
Not gonna update the monthly totals because I didn't make any money and made like 28 poker points.
I have to stop posting rubbish mid-session IDCU style. Makes write ups harder.
On Sunday, basically all of the above post happened, plus I came 2nd in a £3, 100gtd speed in the evening. Nothing in the £5r or Velocity, and bricked the £12 primo sat and a £9.60. It all ended up in like a + half buy in day despite winning 2 mtts and coming 2nd in 2. sigh.
I think Sky made a mistake, or were feeling very generous.
There was a £4.80 sat into a £110 event, with 1 seat gtd, capped at 25 runners.
Luckily for me/unfortunately for sky, they must have forgot to add late reg to the comp. I didn't even notice this until we were 10 mins into the game and only the starting 6 players were registered.
Bonus! 6 runner single table tournament with £70 overlay, winner takes all.
With 5 left I had 3.5k @ 75/150 (3k starting stack) and jammed over an utg min raise with AQo.
The big blind found 88, and given the winner takes all format and his stack made the standard call, utg folded, and I lost the flip. Leaving me with about 7xbb.
I managed to spin this right up, winning a couple of coolers 3 handed, and was left heads up with 15k v 3k @ 200/400.
You can tell where this is going already, right?
SB correctly shoves TJo with like 8 bigs.
I make the very easy call with A7 or A8s or something (both the same hand in this situation v his holding)
I lost. meh. nvm, 12k v 6k @ 300/600 is still awesome for me!
Very next hand....
ATo on the button, I ship it.
plz call plz call.
CALL.
QUEENS! sigh.
Ace ftw...... £110 ace, 1 time.
brick brick brick, brick, brick.
lijwficjeipjkciejriceofpcvjiejcirthvio it's happening again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't bubble again!!!!!!!
This would be £440 worth of pure bubbles in this format in a week. No way.
Despite the shallow effective stacks, it got abit cagey for a few hands, lots of folding pre flop and 'raise and take it' type hands. I re-shoved a couple of times over min opens, expecting to be called but didn't really have a choice. Got a few through and chipped up to about 8k v 10k.
I can m/r fold now, given how the opponent was playing. It's not great from 13.5xbb but I can get away with it once or twice.
So I m/r the Q6o, decent hand if he flats, have to fold if he shoves, and a good chance he will fold anyway.
He peels, spose it's not terrible but kinda surprising.
Q9x flop.
phew. Made top pair, going with it obv. Happy that I didn't have to cbet/fold coz that wud be horrible with stacks.
Bet obv. Get called.
T ott, which brings 3 of the same suit.
ughhhh, well I've got to go with it, I have more than the pot left, so decide to just bet a random size, coz I didn't know wtf to do.
He flats.
King otr, I have about 3.5k left, 300/600 blinds, and he shoves in to me.
This is never ever a bluff, I'm never ever ahead.
I've been at 15k v 3k, lost when ahead, got uber coolered, bubbled 3 of these already this week, and now I feel like I've just been outdrawn.
Bang the call button in disgust.
K9 is good.
ourhjfijifjcijfpjc3oruefhuihcerouijrpjcrf
I can't come back from 3k v 15k, just put me out of my misery. lolol.
f.o poker.
tbf villain didn't play it too bad, not slating his play. He can re-ship pre, and probably should, but after that, meh whatever. He can ship the flop or turn but it's the same result anyway.
His 9 could well be good.
Ahhh well, cool story bro etc? ascdcsspipfjiefjpcjeihcuoec
Made a few quid again, getting back to even for the month.
Playing today, dunno what! So many distractions with FTP opening, I've not played PLO properly for ages so need to get back to that, cash, rush MTTs, options!!!!!!
Comments
Hi Dohhhhhhh
Ty for taking the time to talk over the hand. Your thinking when it comes to analysing hands is so logical. I seem to look at pushing them off hands suggesting to them 'he's got it!' but why would i not want them in the pot? i hear you say. I hate being sucked out on after spending 2 1/2 hours on a single table and need to accept that it can happen but the probability is low. I need to adopt a different attitude to the pots i'm involved with. Have you come across a good article highlighting tis facet of the game D?
How long have you been playing D? How did you go about from the start playing various games then narrow them down to games you enjoy. Did you put a certain amount of money aside and say "i'll play a set of 10 Hup and see how i get on, whether i enjoy them" etc. I've found myself stuck playing the same types of game. I've stopped playing cash. Studied HUP for a month then played the HUP shuffle and came 2nd. You'd think that would spare me on but i only played one other before going back to the old routine of Low level mtt's max £5, DYM's, max £5.50 and DTD. I did some omaha research but left it without playing.
I wonder if its because i'm NOT a gambler really. I don't bet and on't like to lose money through a lack of skill/experience. This may seem a bit sulky and introspective but i just wondered how you went about evolving your poker to play through enjoyment and some level of success. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts D as i think that you have a good slant on things as well as not taking life too seriously. I've had some tragedy in my life as most people and do see poker as something to learn and enjoy. If i stop enjoying it then i think i'd stop playing it. However, if i start losing consistently(i'm slightly winning after 16 months) then i may stop as i don't like to waste money. Unfortunately, the phrase "speculate to accumulate" doesn't quite ring true with me. I've always been a saver then felt i deserved whatever i saved for. Is there a similarity here to how you started at all?
Enjoyed the game today and apart from that awful final hand and calling the guy who had the J for a full house(was it obv?), i was fairly happy with my play. I just love your last post and it epitomises my play and the statements you say that are redundant nowadays is my absolute vocabulary( put the decision on him etc). I love the video though only half wy through but feel that i've found a new way to further my study and the approach that i have to playing pots.
I was playing far too much fit/fold poker. When i got a free entry to £110 roller for winning monthly DTD i had MattBates on my lhs. He owned me from the outset and that's when i knew that my poker was seriously lacking. I recoiled into my shell and only played premium hands. The number of 3-bets, even 4-bets was double i'd seen in any other T easily.
It really has been an eye opener and may give me the impetus to rekindle the buzz i had for poker before hitting the brick wall recently. As long as that info is available and well organised concerning assessing ranges ....then it seems to be more a mater of accumulating or losing chips in greater chunks as you will be more astute at recognising when you are ahead orbehind and so be able to minimise pot losses but maximise pot wins.
If you come across stuff that help me progress steadily don't be afraid to pm me please Dohhhhhhh. I really appreciate it. TY
NLHE -2x buy ins.
PLO n/a
Points 315
I played pretty seriously throughout the last year of uni, and the first 14/15 months after leaving, making more money than I could ever have imagined I would at poker. Had a pretty epic 2 year period. Ofc this was the time when I should have been working harder than ever at my game and putting tonnes of effort in to stay ahead of the game, or at least maximise my winnings while the going was good.
What a cracking read fella. You certainly have a good appreciation of what you've done/couldhave done in your poker time. I imagine it must be slightly difiult to still find that buzz and enjoyment. A bit like "i've done all this before".
I watched the vids and the ones following it too. I was well impressed and can see that changes are needed in my game though i've no great aspirations as i just enjoy trying to improve. I tried a different approach in the Woogie yesterday....the result tells you how that went.
I do wonder if your personality affects the kind of player you are as saw another vid yesterday by Grpsed on youtube talking of Nits and TAGs being risk averse and wanting to make knowingly correct by the book plays. I'm not a gambler and wonder if that's my lot as it were but if i can wedge in some more range orientated plays into my game somehow?
Maybe it comes with experience of playing more. Thanks again D. Why don't you consider playing live T's ....i'd have thought that you're savvy enough to do well in them!
Did i tell you i won my first ever live T not long after reading Harrington vol 1? Maybe that's why i'm clinging to its tenets, lol?
Pretty woiufhuehrfiuyhewrufhuerhf tilted/annoyed right now. Prob as tilted as I've ever beeeeeeeeeeeeen.
2 seats, 3 handed. managed to lose from these stacks.
£9.60 into £110.
sosososososoooooo bad.
pidfjvoehiuvheij'pvaijreiopjv;idfnakvuibgairwhvoeifuiavsoihefiuv
Computer's fixed tho, picking it up tomoro. wii.
Is it purely because your a tight Yorkshire man????
4/400 in PLO freeroll too!
NLHE -1 x buy ins.
PLO n/a
Points 460
The words "salt" and "wound" come to mind D!!! Ban 'em!!!!