Why are the heads up turbos your "go to" games in a similar way as the Dyms are for me?
I know your knowledge of them will be greater than many of your opponents and your ranges will be far better. However, and I'm just guessing , so correct me if I'm wrong, they must be really hard to beat? Turbos by their very nature are high variance and pretty quickly the skill must go out of them and it's just shove and hope?
Is Sky, in your opinion "softer" than other sites?
I'm only playing on Sky these days and so am a little out of touch.
Why don't you play more cash on here to make your money?
Haven't played much with you but from reading other forum members posts, it would seem you are good.
Can you beat Dyms?
I'll answer that one for you. Off course you can. Assuming you would play around the £10 mark the standard isn't amazing. In truth, I think the games have got tougher over the last couple of years but certainly there is still money to be made from them. Reg just one and I'd take a bet that on average 3 out of the 5 opponents will be losing players and 1 prolly just about breaking even. As with the games you play now, volume is obviously the key and you would find it easier to get the volume you need playing Dyms than Hu.
it was lovely playing some heads up with you, would love to again at lower levels as i have a small bankroll but want to test myself against better players like yourself! Posted by golds95
Sorry I missed this post this morning gold.
Yeh as I said at the table I'm happy to play you a few games at a lower level.
You around tomorrow? Best of 5 £1 games in the afternoon?
Post up here sometime tomorrow or find me at a table to arrange a time.
Questions Why are the heads up turbos your "go to" games in a similar way as the Dyms are for me? I know your knowledge of them will be greater than many of your opponents and your ranges will be far better. However, and I'm just guessing , so correct me if I'm wrong, they must be really hard to beat? Turbos by their very nature are high variance and pretty quickly the skill must go out of them and it's just shove and hope? Is Sky, in your opinion "softer" than other sites? I'm only playing on Sky these days and so am a little out of touch. Why don't you play more cash on here to make your money? Haven't played much with you but from reading other forum members posts, it would seem you are good. Can you beat Dyms? I'll answer that one for you. Off course you can. Assuming you would play around the £10 mark the standard isn't amazing. In truth, I think the games have got tougher over the last couple of years but certainly there is still money to be made from them. Reg just one and I'd take a bet that on average 3 out of the 5 opponents will be losing players and 1 prolly just about breaking even. As with the games you play now, volume is obviously the key and you would find it easier to get the volume you need playing Dyms than Hu. The rams are going up, by the way Posted by Jac35
Jacccoooooo!
Will try not to write another huge essay...
HU
Main thing is they're quick! Over in less than 10 minutes. They're fun, we have to play almost every hand! I don't have to concentrate for long periods, and I don't have to think too hard or get in to many complex spots.
I'm not sure they are very hard to beat.
I play £10.50 games, so compare that to a £11 dym player and I'd expect the top players ROIs to be similar, for example I think 10% roi over a big sample of HU turbos is possible, certainly around what I'd expect mine to be.
DYM players @ any level I would expect would be happy with that!
A lot of people auto assume anything with the word 'turbo' in the name is a 'shovefest' or 'bingo poker'. (not saying you do)
In turbo HU sngs, you get 8 minutes of play before the effective stacks are 10xbb.
That's quite a lot of hands HU, and even 10xbb effective v a lot of players I still feel I have a significant edge.
Play a few!
Sky is really soft for HU sngs yeh. But as always with sngs you have to compare not only the standard, but also the rake and the structures, as well as the 'action'.
Think I'll have to go elsewhere again after this month is over.
Cash
Just can't do it anymore, far too much of a grind, need great discipline & concentration to win on here. I watch Lambert play sometimes just for an hour or so, here and there, to try and pick up on any leaks or give general observations on his play.
It's just such a struggle, the same names day after day grinding it out for small winrates and high points tallys.
Not for me!
Some of the 'regs' are also a lot better than they used to be.
Long attritional grinds have never been for me, give me a 'shovefest, hit n hope, bingo' game anytime
Dyms
Is a 'meh' format for me.
I did try once, to grind them seriously, I had a clinic thread which ran and ran for around a month, just me posting hands in there and getting tonnes of great feedback from people like JC and Shanxta.
After breaking around even for a fortnight I then heatered for a week and over my final sample of 500 games @ £11 level, finished with an ROI of 11%.
I've barely played another 1 since!
The rake on these games is MUCH lower elsewhere though.
If I were to take these up again it certainly wouldn't be on sky.
Rams
I hope so!
Not a Stevie Mac fan though!
Decent start for him, he keeps getting big jobs so he must have something about him!
They're beatable just hard to make much off them! I play them mainly just to improve my tourney play. Had a mare in the one where you knocked me out - decided that was enough BH's for me today after that!
In Response to Re: "Sit & DOHHHHHHH Diary" : Sorry I missed this post this morning gold. Yeh as I said at the table I'm happy to play you a few games at a lower level. You around tomorrow? Best of 5 £1 games in the afternoon? Post up here sometime tomorrow or find me at a table to arrange a time. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Hi mate, yeah I will be playing from 9 onwards if you want to play.
In Response to Re: "Sit & DOHHHHHHH Diary" : Soz golds I don't really play at night time. It will have to be sometime in the afternoon, Friday between 2pm and 6pm? ------------------ Rubbish again yesterday, I'm not even gonna bother wasting a search skoping myself. Balance is 2 quid lower than it was when I started. Fun! Back tomorrow for a Friday/Sunday double session. GL all playing today. Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Dissapointing i'm at work all day until about 6, maybe the weekend?
In Response to Re: "Sit & DOHHHHHHH Diary" : Dissapointing i'm at work all day until about 6, maybe the weekend? Posted by golds95
hi golds, really enjoyed our games.
if you want some constructive feedback, here goes:
you're very aggressive which is great for HU esp hypers, but a few little adjustments will help you:
raise sizing
dont 3x or 4x in hypers. it's pretty bad. you fold out a few extra hands, but the risk / reward isn't there. if you ever 3x fold it stinks basically, so you are left having to 3x only strong hands, which is easy to play against. stick to a minraise, the shallow stacks mean you never have to worry about building an all-in pot by the river
3 betting
you 3bet me a ton which is great, but chose your 3betting hands wisely. 24o is never going to be a good hand to 3bet, just muck them totally junk hands, long term it's going to cost you.
bet sizing post
you min bet a couple of times down the steets with big holdings and priced me into hit when you had a hand you couldnt really fold. bet properly and force your oppenent to consider either jamming over the top with draws, calling down with an awkward pirce or folding their draws altogether. difficult decisions for them. if you are min betting strength to balance out the times you min bet with air / marginal holdings then that's the right thinking, but the wrong adjustment; bet bigger or not at all with your air / marginal holdings too
barrelling
you barrelled a ton which again is great, but chose the right boards. best boards are dry boards where you feel that your oppenent has a capped range that will find hard to continue when overcards hit. QsJs9h is not great but if another broadway card falls, best not to barrel down unless you have equity too.
slow play
you owned me hard slow playing AA and KK, the AA one was particulary nice as you had the nut flush draw to go with it. don't get into the habit of doing it when draws that can kill you appear on the turn though. it's a disaster if you let a big hand get cracked on the cheap.
i'm not a great player and we were pretty even through our games i thought, no doubt you could find similar leaks in my game. hope the above helps you mate.
In Response to Re: "Sit & DOHHHHHHH Diary" : hi golds, really enjoyed our games. if you want some constructive feedback, here goes: you're very aggressive which is great for HU esp hypers, but a few little adjustments will help you: raise sizing dont 3x or 4x in hypers. it's pretty bad. you fold out a few extra hands, but the risk / reward isn't there. if you ever 3x fold it stinks basically, so you are left having to 3x only strong hands, which is easy to play against. stick to a minraise, the shallow stacks mean you never have to worry about building an all-in pot by the river 3 betting you 3bet me a ton which is great, but chose your 3betting hands wisely. 24o is never going to be a good hand to 3bet, just muck them totally junk hands, long term it's going to cost you. bet sizing post you min bet a couple of times down the steets with big holdings and priced me into hit when you had a hand you couldnt really fold. bet properly and force your oppenent to consider either jamming over the top with draws, calling down with an awkward pirce or folding their draws altogether. difficult decisions for them. if you are min betting strength to balance out the times you min bet with air / marginal holdings then that's the right thinking, but the wrong adjustment; bet bigger or not at all with your air / marginal holdings too barrelling you barrelled a ton which again is great, but chose the right boards. best boards are dry boards where you feel that your oppenent has a capped range that will find hard to continue when overcards hit. QsJs9h is not great but if another broadway card falls, best not to barrel down unless you have equity too. slow play you owned me hard slow playing AA and KK, the AA one was particulary nice as you had the nut flush draw to go with it. don't get into the habit of doing it when draws that can kill you appear on the turn though. it's a disaster if you let a big hand get cracked on the cheap. i'm not a great player and we were pretty even through our games i thought, no doubt you could find similar leaks in my game. hope the above helps you mate. cheers, TEDDY Posted by TeddyBloat
Thanks mate needed the critisism as im taking poker a bit more seriously now, after being a losing player and not taking any bankroll mangement into consideration and playing any game at any limit but now set myself a target of £100 from £10 which has started already and up £3.36 so hopefully ill be able to get there and try to aviod you a bit more now lol
You seemed to have a lot of the basics in place in the few games we played gold, but as I was focusing more on trying to win I wasn't really in a position to feedback. (ok, I got drunk and can't remember also).
Don is right, I can't play tomorrow afternoon but Sunday is good.
I'll try and add to Teddys post above after we've played again.
Have found a few Hand IDs on the sticky note I keep on the desktop. No idea what they are, but I'll post them up whilst I get todays session going.
1) Looks like I've started with a brag again.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
DOHHHHHHH
Small blind
25.00
25.00
1105.00
Petkuli666
Big blind
50.00
75.00
820.00
Your hole cards
5
Q
DOHHHHHHH
Raise
75.00
150.00
1030.00
Petkuli666
Call
50.00
200.00
770.00
Flop
A
9
A
Petkuli666
Bet
100.00
300.00
670.00
DOHHHHHHH
Call
100.00
400.00
930.00
Turn
J
Petkuli666
Bet
200.00
600.00
470.00
DOHHHHHHH
All-in
930.00
1530.00
0.00
Petkuli666
Fold
DOHHHHHHH
Muck
DOHHHHHHH
Win
800.00
800.00
DOHHHHHHH
Return
730.00
0.00
1530.00
Can't see him donking the A here, pretty crazy move tbh as I have no equity. I guess I fold out K high
2) This is a hyper, struggle to see what the fellas repping here? Can we bet/hero call here???
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
TheSaw
Small blind
30.00
30.00
768.00
DOHHHHHHH
Big blind
60.00
90.00
1142.00
Your hole cards
6
2
TheSaw
Call
30.00
120.00
738.00
DOHHHHHHH
Check
Flop
6
9
K
DOHHHHHHH
Check
TheSaw
Check
Turn
A
DOHHHHHHH
Check
TheSaw
Check
River
4
DOHHHHHHH
Bet
60.00
180.00
1082.00
TheSaw
Raise
180.00
360.00
558.00
DOHHHHHHH
3) Ah, I remember this, the fella is a rock solid reg....
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
DOHHHHHHH
Small blind
25.00
25.00
1275.00
Alvez11
Big blind
50.00
75.00
650.00
Your hole cards
7
5
DOHHHHHHH
Raise
75.00
150.00
1200.00
Alvez11
Call
50.00
200.00
600.00
Flop
A
J
2
Alvez11
Check
DOHHHHHHH
Bet
87.00
287.00
1113.00
Alvez11
Raise
174.00
461.00
426.00
DOHHHHHHH
All-in
1113.00
1574.00
0.00
Alvez11
I'd expect all his Ax hands to shove pre flop, and I very much doubt he'd check raise Jx on this board.
I'm very aggressive, min raising tonnes of buttons and cbetting a lot of the time. Also cbet smaller on this kinda texture with stack sizes as they are, a combo of those 3 things might have induced a bluff from him?
I think his line reps absolutely nothing, so put the lot in.
Thoughts?
My problem with these hands, is If I actually have Jx or Ax and I get check raised like this, I'd flat with the plan to call off turn/riv v his barrels to keep his range as wide as possible.
So by shipping, do I myself rep nothing either?
I guess small pocket pairs that I think are ahead & vulnerable, but other than that, not a lot?
Always confuses me that spot, the 'bluff and rebluff' type hands.
I think your thought process in hand 3 is spot on. The flop cbet imo is still too big than it needs to be, something between 60-80 should be ample with the intention of going 3 with a psj otr. On this board texture we can confidently cap their range at Jx, very rarely they flat monsters AA-JJ and as you say all Ax 3b jam. Your concern that you rep very little by jamming the flop is true but your line is only exploitable if they are mr/calling their Jx and potentially their Qx/Kx. How many regs at the £10s are really going to be thinking on that level? Very few if any.
I dont like the river bet in 2. We have showdown value, as you said he's repping nought, so we shouldnt think we can get value from q high or a random four, we do much better check calling. Id see tjis as a gross spot. You're a sick puppy, i know, but if youve induced here I doff my hat to you mate thats way above where im at lol.
3 makes my head hurt. Ax and small pairs jam for 14bbs, and against a frequent minraiser he probably jams some kj and qj too. But jx is a decent part of his flatting range AA, KK, QQ might flat but are a small part of his range. I dont see how he can fold Jx here.
So you are trying fold out all his air. If he's only flatting when he has it and jamming when he has air then thats going to be easy to play against, so if he's a reg id expect him to have value hands in his range here. unless hes prepared to call with king high hes going to have more air than value hands so barring the chance he's constructed some sicko balanced range for just this spot we're making a profitable shove. If were not making a profitable shove then it means he's going to get owned in these spots as he's folding to our aggression whenever he whiffs the flop, either way we win long term, non?
There is summat to be said for flatting some rag aces so we can credibly rep ace high flops from the bb, dunno if 14bb is deep enough and if he's thinking about ranges enough to be that tricky. If he is then that changes things as he can have more value in his range.. Meh, micro donks ftw imo. My brain hurts.
Donny are 5/1 to win @ Boro tonight live on sky. I have no idea why! Teams are on the same points, Boro' played 1 game more. Boro' sacked their manager this week. No outstanding injury worries for Donny, and they are decent away from home this year, and very good last. Definitely worth a tenner @ 5/1 ! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
you really need to start a betting diary hope it was only a tenner you had
Donny are 5/1 to win @ Boro tonight live on sky. I have no idea why! Teams are on the same points, Boro' played 1 game more. Boro' sacked their manager this week. No outstanding injury worries for Donny, and they are decent away from home this year, and very good last. Definitely worth a tenner @ 5/1 ! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Comments
Yeh as I said at the table I'm happy to play you a few games at a lower level.
You around tomorrow? Best of 5 £1 games in the afternoon?
Post up here sometime tomorrow or find me at a table to arrange a time.
In Response to Re: "Sit & DOHHHHHHH Diary": Jacccoooooo!
Will try not to write another huge essay...
HU
Main thing is they're quick! Over in less than 10 minutes.
They're fun, we have to play almost every hand!
I don't have to concentrate for long periods, and I don't have to think too hard or get in to many complex spots.
I'm not sure they are very hard to beat.
I play £10.50 games, so compare that to a £11 dym player and I'd expect the top players ROIs to be similar, for example I think 10% roi over a big sample of HU turbos is possible, certainly around what I'd expect mine to be.
DYM players @ any level I would expect would be happy with that!
A lot of people auto assume anything with the word 'turbo' in the name is a 'shovefest' or 'bingo poker'. (not saying you do)
In turbo HU sngs, you get 8 minutes of play before the effective stacks are 10xbb.
That's quite a lot of hands HU, and even 10xbb effective v a lot of players I still feel I have a significant edge.
Play a few!
Sky is really soft for HU sngs yeh. But as always with sngs you have to compare not only the standard, but also the rake and the structures, as well as the 'action'.
Think I'll have to go elsewhere again after this month is over.
Cash
Just can't do it anymore, far too much of a grind, need great discipline & concentration to win on here. I watch Lambert play sometimes just for an hour or so, here and there, to try and pick up on any leaks or give general observations on his play.
It's just such a struggle, the same names day after day grinding it out for small winrates and high points tallys.
Not for me!
Some of the 'regs' are also a lot better than they used to be.
Long attritional grinds have never been for me, give me a 'shovefest, hit n hope, bingo' game anytime
Dyms
Is a 'meh' format for me.
I did try once, to grind them seriously, I had a clinic thread which ran and ran for around a month, just me posting hands in there and getting tonnes of great feedback from people like JC and Shanxta.
After breaking around even for a fortnight I then heatered for a week and over my final sample of 500 games @ £11 level, finished with an ROI of 11%.
I've barely played another 1 since!
The rake on these games is MUCH lower elsewhere though.
If I were to take these up again it certainly wouldn't be on sky.
Rams
I hope so!
Not a Stevie Mac fan though!
Decent start for him, he keeps getting big jobs so he must have something about him!
Not feeling great today, so reluctant to reg up many games until I know I'm going to be able to play a full session.
Already cashed a BH tho, the first all month! wiiii
Exit hand was standard, needed abit of luck to 'go deep' but couldn't spike an Ace,
With the bounty factor and him having a comfortable stack I thought open jamming might be best.
Only a v small cash but a relief all the same!
Couple more running atm, 2/26 in one of them. Hopefully I'll feel better soon and can commit to a full session.
gl all playing today.
£11 game.
Another cash in another £5.75 BH.
3 goes today...
£5.75 BH - 8th/70 with 1 head for a small cash.
£5.75 BH - 7th/70 with 2 heads for a small cash.
£11 BH- 40th/60 with 1 head for a small loss
= +£2.
Are these even beatable?
vvvvv frustrating, let's play HU!
It will have to be sometime in the afternoon, Friday between 2pm and 6pm?
------------------
Rubbish again yesterday, I'm not even gonna bother wasting a search skoping myself.
Balance is 2 quid lower than it was when I started.
Fun!
Back tomorrow for a Friday/Sunday double session.
GL all playing today.
Steve
Good post Teddy.
You seemed to have a lot of the basics in place in the few games we played gold, but as I was focusing more on trying to win I wasn't really in a position to feedback. (ok, I got drunk and can't remember also).
Don is right, I can't play tomorrow afternoon but Sunday is good.
I'll try and add to Teddys post above after we've played again.
Good luck over the weekend.
1) Looks like I've started with a brag again.
2) This is a hyper, struggle to see what the fellas repping here? Can we bet/hero call here???
I'm very aggressive, min raising tonnes of buttons and cbetting a lot of the time. Also cbet smaller on this kinda texture with stack sizes as they are, a combo of those 3 things might have induced a bluff from him?
I think his line reps absolutely nothing, so put the lot in.
Thoughts?
My problem with these hands, is If I actually have Jx or Ax and I get check raised like this, I'd flat with the plan to call off turn/riv v his barrels to keep his range as wide as possible.
So by shipping, do I myself rep nothing either?
I guess small pocket pairs that I think are ahead & vulnerable, but other than that, not a lot?
Always confuses me that spot, the 'bluff and rebluff' type hands.
All thoughts welcome, cheers.
Donny are 5/1 to win @ Boro tonight live on sky.
I have no idea why!
Teams are on the same points, Boro' played 1 game more.
Boro' sacked their manager this week.
No outstanding injury worries for Donny, and they are decent away from home this year, and very good last.
Definitely worth a tenner @ 5/1 !
I think your thought process in hand 3 is spot on. The flop cbet imo is still too big than it needs to be, something between 60-80 should be ample with the intention of going 3 with a psj otr. On this board texture we can confidently cap their range at Jx, very rarely they flat monsters AA-JJ and as you say all Ax 3b jam. Your concern that you rep very little by jamming the flop is true but your line is only exploitable if they are mr/calling their Jx and potentially their Qx/Kx. How many regs at the £10s are really going to be thinking on that level? Very few if any.
You're right though, I shud start a betting diary to remind myself how much I lose when I try take the bookies on for real. shud stick to fun bets
We r so poor.
Going to be a long season.
Is it too optimistic to ask for "Dickov out, Holloway in" ??????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB9rI7p7vmk