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Biggest Downswing; How Long?

13

Comments

  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    Itsover4u said:

    Itsover4u said:

    My Main issue is with you thinking it is fine for recs and regs to get overcharged at a game they do play.

    If people think they are being overcharged ...then dont play here ...dont continue to , because its soft , but then moan about it . You obv think we are being overcharged , but continue to do so , because I would presume the benefits outweigh the negatives in your own mind .
    My roi is higher on stars, unibet... just about every site... I dont think its soft at all
    However you think the rake is too high , but continue to play here .
  • chrisdonkbchrisdonkb Member Posts: 128
    Haven't had any massive swings in monetary value but I find that when I have swings they tend to feel prolonged as my volume considerably drops as I have less desire to play.

    Therefore it feels like it takes ages to get out of the swing but it's because it's taking me twice as long to play the same volume compared to when I'm winning. Like Danny said sometimes during the breakeven/losing stretches I will try too hard to make things happen at the table and often isn't good.


    Found that once I started playing 55's and 110's more regularly I needed to forget about the money as when you brick they soon add up so best advice from me Ikelly is to not get attached to the money, just look at it as number of buy-ins.
  • IkellyIkelly Member Posts: 1,374
    Thanks for the replies guys.

    If poker was your main income source for day to day bills etc I can't imagine how mentally strong you would have to be come out the other side of a big downswing, I guess all the hard work off the tables will pay divedends eventually?

    As a rec it would still affect me but not on the same scale, so kudos to you guys who have to deal with this regularly.


  • Itsover4uItsover4u Member Posts: 1,529

    Itsover4u said:

    Itsover4u said:

    My Main issue is with you thinking it is fine for recs and regs to get overcharged at a game they do play.

    If people think they are being overcharged ...then dont play here ...dont continue to , because its soft , but then moan about it . You obv think we are being overcharged , but continue to do so , because I would presume the benefits outweigh the negatives in your own mind .
    My roi is higher on stars, unibet... just about every site... I dont think its soft at all
    However you think the rake is too high , but continue to play here .
    Sorry I’m not debating with someone who can’t be arsed to read posts properly.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    Itsover4u said:


    Itsover4u said:

    Itsover4u said:

    My Main issue is with you thinking it is fine for recs and regs to get overcharged at a game they do play.

    If people think they are being overcharged ...then dont play here ...dont continue to , because its soft , but then moan about it . You obv think we are being overcharged , but continue to do so , because I would presume the benefits outweigh the negatives in your own mind .
    My roi is higher on stars, unibet... just about every site... I dont think its soft at all
    However you think the rake is too high , but continue to play here .
    Sorry I’m not debating with someone who can’t be arsed to read posts properly.
    Read it , and still don't understand it ...move on !
  • DuesenbergDuesenberg Member Posts: 1,740
    Itsover4u said:

    Itsover4u said:

    My Main issue is with you thinking it is fine for recs and regs to get overcharged at a game they do play.

    If people think they are being overcharged ...then dont play here ...dont continue to , because its soft , but then moan about it . You obv think we are being overcharged , but continue to do so , because I would presume the benefits outweigh the negatives in your own mind .
    My roi is higher on stars, unibet... just about every site... I dont think its soft at all
    I think that difference will be principally due to the majority of your Sky games being bounty hunters where you'll be achieving an overall smaller roi on your wins and very deep runs.

    It would be interesting to compare your roi in just bounty hunters across different sites if you have a large enough sample to do so.
  • chrisdonkbchrisdonkb Member Posts: 128

    Ikelly said:

    Just read through and find this subject really interesting, how do you cope mentally with big downswings? and do they affect the way you play when you are deep in one?

    Glad we are back on topic... thanks Ikelly!

    Big downswings are obviously very mentally challenging. You start to doubt everything you do, confidence is out the window and you can feel like you will never win again - the game has caught you up and you are now somehow behind the curve/a losing player.

    What can make it worse is the pressure to win only increases as your bank balance decreases. It can be extremely stressful at times.

    I know I felt like this at the start of 2015. I had a -£15k ish downswing (multiple sites online + live), which was most of my bankroll, over the course of 3 months. I just couldn't win and it really effected my confidence.

    Since then I have had plenty of similar experiences but not quite as bad.

    To get through it I usually up my amount of studying, with the attitude I will find a way to win, even if the poker gods are against me. It can help with confidence by reassuring you that your plays were correct + help to find anywhere you might have gone off the rails strategy wise + any increase in ability will only help to reduce variance.
    Was this downswing a significant % of your bankroll at the time?
  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited March 2019

    Ikelly said:

    Just read through and find this subject really interesting, how do you cope mentally with big downswings? and do they affect the way you play when you are deep in one?

    Glad we are back on topic... thanks Ikelly!

    Big downswings are obviously very mentally challenging. You start to doubt everything you do, confidence is out the window and you can feel like you will never win again - the game has caught you up and you are now somehow behind the curve/a losing player.

    What can make it worse is the pressure to win only increases as your bank balance decreases. It can be extremely stressful at times.

    I know I felt like this at the start of 2015. I had a -£15k ish downswing (multiple sites online + live), which was most of my bankroll, over the course of 3 months. I just couldn't win and it really effected my confidence.

    Since then I have had plenty of similar experiences but not quite as bad.

    To get through it I usually up my amount of studying, with the attitude I will find a way to win, even if the poker gods are against me. It can help with confidence by reassuring you that your plays were correct + help to find anywhere you might have gone off the rails strategy wise + any increase in ability will only help to reduce variance.
    Was this downswing a significant % of your bankroll at the time?
    yes :)

    I would be surprised if there are many professional poker players that have not had downswings for most of their roll. Variance is very easy to underestimate, and when things go bad it takes a lot of discipline to play in smaller games than you have been.
  • Angmar2626Angmar2626 Member Posts: 886
    Thanks for the top replies guys!
  • Angmar2626Angmar2626 Member Posts: 886

    Ikelly said:

    Just read through and find this subject really interesting, how do you cope mentally with big downswings? and do they affect the way you play when you are deep in one?

    Glad we are back on topic... thanks Ikelly!

    Big downswings are obviously very mentally challenging. You start to doubt everything you do, confidence is out the window and you can feel like you will never win again - the game has caught you up and you are now somehow behind the curve/a losing player.

    What can make it worse is the pressure to win only increases as your bank balance decreases. It can be extremely stressful at times.

    I know I felt like this at the start of 2015. I had a -£15k ish downswing (multiple sites online + live), which was most of my bankroll, over the course of 3 months. I just couldn't win and it really effected my confidence.

    Since then I have had plenty of similar experiences but not quite as bad.

    To get through it I usually up my amount of studying, with the attitude I will find a way to win, even if the poker gods are against me. It can help with confidence by reassuring you that your plays were correct + help to find anywhere you might have gone off the rails strategy wise + any increase in ability will only help to reduce variance.
    Was this downswing a significant % of your bankroll at the time?
    yes :)

    I would be surprised if there are many professional poker players that have not had downswings for most of their roll. Variance is very easy to underestimate, and when things go bad it takes a lot of discipline to play in smaller games than you have been.
    Interesting stuff. Always wondered how big a roll the guys who fire everything including multiple 110 bullets are working with
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296

    Ikelly said:

    Just read through and find this subject really interesting, how do you cope mentally with big downswings? and do they affect the way you play when you are deep in one?

    Glad we are back on topic... thanks Ikelly!

    Big downswings are obviously very mentally challenging. You start to doubt everything you do, confidence is out the window and you can feel like you will never win again - the game has caught you up and you are now somehow behind the curve/a losing player.

    What can make it worse is the pressure to win only increases as your bank balance decreases. It can be extremely stressful at times.

    I know I felt like this at the start of 2015. I had a -£15k ish downswing (multiple sites online + live), which was most of my bankroll, over the course of 3 months. I just couldn't win and it really effected my confidence.

    Since then I have had plenty of similar experiences but not quite as bad.

    To get through it I usually up my amount of studying, with the attitude I will find a way to win, even if the poker gods are against me. It can help with confidence by reassuring you that your plays were correct + help to find anywhere you might have gone off the rails strategy wise + any increase in ability will only help to reduce variance.
    Was this downswing a significant % of your bankroll at the time?
    yes :)

    I would be surprised if there are many professional poker players that have not had downswings for most of their roll. Variance is very easy to underestimate, and when things go bad it takes a lot of discipline to play in smaller games than you have been.
    Hey chicken

    I like your honesty on this post and think atm your game is in a good place...
  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,471
    Another fantastic thread.
    Just a pity the troll has been allowed to return to the forum (loved the old ignore button)

    It’s interesting to read how even the best players suffer self doubt during bad runs.
    It makes me feel a bit better. It’s amazing how poker plays with your head. I have reasonable stats over a 20k+ sample at dyms but when i’m going through a bad patch i convince myself that I can’t play at all and will never win again.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    Had a look through scope over the years.
    So early on I was a breakeven/losing player on sky but winning on other sites. So as Groggy said it is hard to know if that period should be called a downswing. I had about a £2.7k swing on about £12 av stake. In 2013 I had a £2.2k swing on £20 stake over 224 games. 2013 £2.1k over 130 games. End of 2015/start of 2016 I had £3.5k swing over 236 games on £28 av stake. That seems to be my biggest swing. On other sites I am sure I would of had worst. I think for players that play more than one site often they can find they have a bad spell on a particular site but overall are doing fine. I find this tends to mean players play more on the site they are doing well on.

    I do think rather than downswing I think more important is difference between expected returns and actual results. To use an extreme example if you are expecting say 100% ROI and you breakeven over a period then that must feel really brutal even though it doesn't count as a downswing.

    Also a breakeven spell can feel hard especially if poker is your income. For these players they are effectively working for nothing. Imagine going to work for a month and being paid nothing or even worse losing money. Mentally that must be pretty tough.

    Also if you are a slight winning player and you have a downswing that results in you having to deposit that must be mentally quite tough as you have gone from a hobby that makes you some extra money to one that is costing you money.

    In terms of coping with downswings it is tough for all players. For me having good players around you who can advise on hands really helps. Sometimes we are playing fine and it is purely variance, sometimes we think we are getting unlucky but we are playing bad. Again, having people to support you to keep you motivated is important. Being on a bad run and being able to reg in the right frame of mind is key. Sometimes its best to have time away from poker, sometimes grinding through it is right. Until you have experienced it then its hard to know whats best and I think this sort of thing is a personal thing and different things work for different players.

    I think with tournament poker deep runs and not getting wins or making final tables can be just as frustrating as the £ results side of thing. Especially when the run is in a special tournament (Super Sunday) or when it is one of your highest buy in ones. I think when you don't feel you played your best late on in a tournament you may of made money but there is the disappointment of not making it count as deep runs wont happen all the time.
  • rspca12rspca12 Member Posts: 616
    edited March 2019
    Downswings the one word every poker player hates. My biggest downswing on sky mtts is around 3k i think other sites around 8k but my avg buy in was 50+ so not that much. spins downswing are the most disgusting happened to me in 2018 i wont say the amount but u could buy a new BMW 5 series and a month in Vegas and still have change. Downswings are vv tough to deal with can affect your mental game which will stop u playing your best game which means u will lose more money. My advice for dealing with runbad/downswings up your volume and play lower to u get u confidence back. Also up Your studying. One hour every night doing the right things can drastically change u results long term. Anyone who takes poker seriously should imo study at least 5 hours a week min.
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,925
    Whats a downswing?


  • H3nryH3nry Member Posts: 39


    rspca12 said:

    Downswings the one word every poker player hates. My biggest downswing on sky mtts is around 3k i think other sites around 8k but my avg buy in was 50+ so not that much. spins downswing are the most disgusting happened to me in 2018 i wont say the amount but u could buy a new BMW 5 series and a month in Vegas and still have change. Downswings are vv tough to deal with can affect your mental game which will stop u playing your best game which means u will lose more money. My advice for dealing with runbad/downswings up your volume and play lower to u get u confidence back. Also up Your studding. One hour every night doing the right things can drastically change u results long term. Anyone who takes poker seriously should imo study at least 5 hours a week min.

    This maybe where you were going wrong, increasing the gigalo work is unlikely to help your poker game.
  • rspca12rspca12 Member Posts: 616
    ha ha u got me if u pick me up on every word spelled wrong or bad grammar we could be here a while.
  • madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,296
    Jac35 said:

    Another fantastic thread.
    Just a pity the troll has been allowed to return to the forum (loved the old ignore button)

    It’s interesting to read how even the best players suffer self doubt during bad runs.
    It makes me feel a bit better. It’s amazing how poker plays with your head. I have reasonable stats over a 20k+ sample at dyms but when i’m going through a bad patch i convince myself that I can’t play at all and will never win again.

    Who's the troll?
  • mumsiemumsie Member Posts: 7,268
    I wouldn't say troll, Rottweiler .
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