First off, I'm sorry to hear you've been quite so drastically effected by current events. As you say though, having another string to your bow (couldn't resist that one haha!) that allows you to bring in a little income from the comfort of home is something that few others can fall back on, so things could indeed be worse. I do hope that the forthcoming weeks and months don't prove too uncomfortable or stressful though.
On a more selfish level, I'm actually quite excited to see how this 'opportunity' pans out for you. You now have more time and a greater incentive than ever before to push on with your poker and I'm extremely confident of positive developments on this front. I really don't like to gush, but I genuinely rate you as a player (more so than you rate yourself I think). Add in your impressive work and study ethic to the time now at your disposal and I think your skill level, confidence and (perhaps most importantly right now) your hourly will grow at an impressive rate.
A couple of questions...
Will you now be adding more evening sessions to your grind schedule?
Will you be looking to grow the roll a little more first to allow you more flexibility from an ABI perspective, or are immediate withdrawals for life expenses imperative?
Good luck
I’m guessing what Dues has said is ‘music to your ears.’
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors.
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some have an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you t To pay the mortgage for the next 3decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors. tHe
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some Haverhill an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Matt..genuinely I’m pleased for you..but you live in another world with these figures, thousands hanging around in your poker account, just waiting to be doubled up
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
Regarding 'paying yourself' from poker, I think Matt has covered most of the main things to consider, but I'll run you through my approach for another reference point.
Firstly, I'm a huge bankroll nit and am generally way over-rolled for any of the games/stakes I tend to play. Although my approach to BRM would definitely be sub-optimal for those who are looking to systematically climb the stakes, for me it has a very positive effect on my mental game in terms of being mostly unaffected by the natural swings of the game - I would have to go on a truly monumental downswing before being forced to drop down from my current stakes. Given that I don't have much need to grow my bankroll at this stage, I have used two different approaches to paying/rewarding myself, with one definitely preferable over the other in my experience.
So, I maintain a dedicated poker roll of £X for use across multiple sites and anything above £X I withdraw to the life roll at a certain point. One approach I have used is to make a regular single withdrawal at the end of every month of all the profits accrued over that period, regardless of whatever that figure may be - like a standard payday for any regular job. The second approach I have used is that I withdraw profits in blocks of £1k, however frequently (or infrequently!) each £1k chunk of profit is generated.
For me, the latter of those withdrawal approaches has proved infinitely preferable. At a glance it doesn't look like it should make much difference, but I found that the end of month payday approach really messed with my mental game. As the latter part of the month arrived, I would find myself getting protective of whatever profits had been made thus far and become super risk-averse for the last week of each month, which is hugely -EV of course. I'd be thinking something like "Ooh, if I can finish the month with what I've made so far, I'll be able to treat myself to that particularly snazzy new hat I've been eyeing up". By only withdrawing profits in set chunks of £1k at a time, I have completely removed that mental game leak.
One final thing to mention is that I only keep a small proportion of my overall bankroll in any of my online poker accounts at any time - the rest sits in a separate instant access savings account with my bank. Whilst I would have little concern with leaving a big chunk in my Sky account in particular, you can never say never so it seem sensible to me to mitigate my financial risk/exposure wherever possible. After all, who'd have ever really expected Full Tilt to blow up the way it did back in the day?
Regarding 'paying yourself' from poker, I think Matt has covered most of the main things to consider, but I'll run you through my approach for another reference point.
Firstly, I'm a huge bankroll nit and am generally way over-rolled for any of the games/stakes I tend to play. Although my approach to BRM would definitely be sub-optimal for those who are looking to systematically climb the stakes, for me it has a very positive effect on my mental game in terms of being mostly unaffected by the natural swings of the game - I would have to go on a truly monumental downswing before being forced to drop down from my current stakes. Given that I don't have much need to grow my bankroll at this stage, I have used two different approaches to paying/rewarding myself, with one definitely preferable over the other in my experience.
So, I maintain a dedicated poker roll of £X for use across multiple sites and anything above £X I withdraw to the life roll at a certain point. One approach I have used is to make a regular single withdrawal at the end of every month of all the profits accrued over that period, regardless of whatever that figure may be - like a standard payday for any regular job. The second approach I have used is that I withdraw profits in blocks of £1k, however frequently (or infrequently!) each £1k chunk of profit is generated.
For me, the latter of those withdrawal approaches has proved infinitely preferable. At a glance it doesn't look like it should make much difference, but I found that the end of month payday approach really messed with my mental game. As the latter part of the month arrived, I would find myself getting protective of whatever profits had been made thus far and become super risk-averse for the last week of each month, which is hugely -EV of course. I'd be thinking something like "Ooh, if I can finish the month with what I've made so far, I'll be able to treat myself to that particularly snazzy new hat I've been eyeing up". By only withdrawing profits in set chunks of £1k at a time, I have completely removed that mental game leak.
One final thing to mention is that I only keep a small proportion of my overall bankroll in any of my online poker accounts at any time - the rest sits in a separate instant access savings account with my bank. Whilst I would have little concern with leaving a big chunk in my Sky account in particular, you can never say never so it seem sensible to me to mitigate my financial risk/exposure wherever possible. After all, who'd have ever really expected Full Tilt to blow up the way it did back in the day?
Wear it on your next stream or we don't believe you....
Gl with everything, Ang. Are you planning on doing anything for a side side-income along the way (music tuition?) or are you purely throwing yourself into poker? Apologies if you've covered this, was reading the updates while (semi) grinding and was thinking about headwear.
Gl with everything, Ang. Are you planning on doing anything for a side side-income along the way (music tuition?) or are you purely throwing yourself into poker? Apologies if you've covered this, was reading the updates while (semi) grinding and was thinking about headwear.
All the best with everything.
Tyty SR. In a regular week the majority of my work (and income) is through conducting but I also do 2 afternoons teaching one on one lessons in a music school. That will obviously be closing on Friday but the school are keen to keep as many lessons as possible going via Skype lessons. Whether or not it will work we shall see but it would be a great solution if it did! Both for the teachers at the school and the students (and parents of bored students).
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you t To pay the mortgage for the next 3decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors. tHe
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some Haverhill an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Matt..genuinely I’m pleased for you..but you live in another world with these figures, thousands hanging around in your poker account, just waiting to be doubled up
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
To be fair to Matt he's talking about the numbers I asked about, I'm sure the Lord Bates numbers are far grander! He's also not talking about withdrawing 2k per month, he's talking about withdrawals built around a 2k roll.
I get that it's a scary/stressful time for many many people though! Hope things are ok with you, Sir Prof
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors.
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some have an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Thanks for the words of wisdom Matt. All of that makes a lot of sense, though I think having some buffer above 2k would probably help me personally to get my head around. Like if I withdraw down to 2k then have a couple of losing sessions technically I'm no longer rolled for some games. So I think maybe having 2.5k as a threshold and making withdrawals above that might be the way to go
Regarding 'paying yourself' from poker, I think Matt has covered most of the main things to consider, but I'll run you through my approach for another reference point.
Firstly, I'm a huge bankroll nit and am generally way over-rolled for any of the games/stakes I tend to play. Although my approach to BRM would definitely be sub-optimal for those who are looking to systematically climb the stakes, for me it has a very positive effect on my mental game in terms of being mostly unaffected by the natural swings of the game - I would have to go on a truly monumental downswing before being forced to drop down from my current stakes. Given that I don't have much need to grow my bankroll at this stage, I have used two different approaches to paying/rewarding myself, with one definitely preferable over the other in my experience.
So, I maintain a dedicated poker roll of £X for use across multiple sites and anything above £X I withdraw to the life roll at a certain point. One approach I have used is to make a regular single withdrawal at the end of every month of all the profits accrued over that period, regardless of whatever that figure may be - like a standard payday for any regular job. The second approach I have used is that I withdraw profits in blocks of £1k, however frequently (or infrequently!) each £1k chunk of profit is generated.
For me, the latter of those withdrawal approaches has proved infinitely preferable. At a glance it doesn't look like it should make much difference, but I found that the end of month payday approach really messed with my mental game. As the latter part of the month arrived, I would find myself getting protective of whatever profits had been made thus far and become super risk-averse for the last week of each month, which is hugely -EV of course. I'd be thinking something like "Ooh, if I can finish the month with what I've made so far, I'll be able to treat myself to that particularly snazzy new hat I've been eyeing up". By only withdrawing profits in set chunks of £1k at a time, I have completely removed that mental game leak.
One final thing to mention is that I only keep a small proportion of my overall bankroll in any of my online poker accounts at any time - the rest sits in a separate instant access savings account with my bank. Whilst I would have little concern with leaving a big chunk in my Sky account in particular, you can never say never so it seem sensible to me to mitigate my financial risk/exposure wherever possible. After all, who'd have ever really expected Full Tilt to blow up the way it did back in the day?
Thanks hat boy.
I think I'd be the same as you when it comes to the monthly withdrawal and nitting it up leading up to that point! As an example, for UKOPS I always make a separate spreadsheet of things I want to play and update it during the series. There have been a couple of times where I've had it planned for weeks to buy in to the main event and all the big stuff on the final day but I've come into the final day +£200 for the series or whatever and all of a sudden skipping those big events and guaranteeing a profitable series starts to seem ever so tempting! And it makes absolutely zero sense. These events come around 2 or 3 times a year and trying to cling on to a relatively small amount of profit for the sake of being in profit is pretty ludicrous.
Regarding 'paying yourself' from poker, I think Matt has covered most of the main things to consider, but I'll run you through my approach for another reference point.
Firstly, I'm a huge bankroll nit and am generally way over-rolled for any of the games/stakes I tend to play. Although my approach to BRM would definitely be sub-optimal for those who are looking to systematically climb the stakes, for me it has a very positive effect on my mental game in terms of being mostly unaffected by the natural swings of the game - I would have to go on a truly monumental downswing before being forced to drop down from my current stakes. Given that I don't have much need to grow my bankroll at this stage, I have used two different approaches to paying/rewarding myself, with one definitely preferable over the other in my experience.
So, I maintain a dedicated poker roll of £X for use across multiple sites and anything above £X I withdraw to the life roll at a certain point. One approach I have used is to make a regular single withdrawal at the end of every month of all the profits accrued over that period, regardless of whatever that figure may be - like a standard payday for any regular job. The second approach I have used is that I withdraw profits in blocks of £1k, however frequently (or infrequently!) each £1k chunk of profit is generated.
For me, the latter of those withdrawal approaches has proved infinitely preferable. At a glance it doesn't look like it should make much difference, but I found that the end of month payday approach really messed with my mental game. As the latter part of the month arrived, I would find myself getting protective of whatever profits had been made thus far and become super risk-averse for the last week of each month, which is hugely -EV of course. I'd be thinking something like "Ooh, if I can finish the month with what I've made so far, I'll be able to treat myself to that particularly snazzy new hat I've been eyeing up". By only withdrawing profits in set chunks of £1k at a time, I have completely removed that mental game leak.
One final thing to mention is that I only keep a small proportion of my overall bankroll in any of my online poker accounts at any time - the rest sits in a separate instant access savings account with my bank. Whilst I would have little concern with leaving a big chunk in my Sky account in particular, you can never say never so it seem sensible to me to mitigate my financial risk/exposure wherever possible. After all, who'd have ever really expected Full Tilt to blow up the way it did back in the day?
Wear it on your next stream or we don't believe you....
You've ignored my advice about music selection.. but hats! Now that really is my thang! PM me your address and I'm happy to post you a different hat to wear- 1 a month- for each twitch stream
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you t To pay the mortgage for the next 3decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors. tHe
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some Haverhill an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Matt..genuinely I’m pleased for you..but you live in another world with these figures, thousands hanging around in your poker account, just waiting to be doubled up
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
Money is effectively the tools of the trade for a poker player. The numbers relate to Angmar. They will be different for all players.
I don't see how this is another world with these figures. Are you aware of the swings of poker? We are talking about someone effectively playing poker full time as a job to pay bills. They are doing this to make money to pay their mortgage. You need money to make money with poker and you need to be able to stay in games but also pay your bills. If we were talking about a tradesman and I said they should have £2k for supplies would you say that's living in another world?
If you don't have an appropriate roll you have to drop down stakes and then your earning potential falls and you get to a stage where its not possible to make enough money. This is for a proven winning pIayer. I am not saying everyone should have £2k in their sky accounts and some should have a lot more. I think Phil has suggested before about having a poker bank account and I think this is a good idea. Over the years there has been lots of people who have suggested playing for a living and generally I advise people not to do it. Everyone has to do what is right for them in life and more so in the current climate.
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you t To pay the mortgage for the next 3decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors. tHe
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some Haverhill an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Matt..genuinely I’m pleased for you..but you live in another world with these figures, thousands hanging around in your poker account, just waiting to be doubled up
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
Money is effectively the tools of the trade for a poker player. The numbers relate to Angmar. They will be different for all players.
I don't see how this is another world with these figures. Are you aware of the swings of poker? We are talking about someone effectively playing poker full time as a job to pay bills. They are doing this to make money to pay their mortgage. You need money to make money with poker and you need to be able to stay in games but also pay your bills. If we were talking about a tradesman and I said they should have £2k for supplies would you say that's living in another world?
If you don't have an appropriate roll you have to drop down stakes and then your earning potential falls and you get to a stage where its not possible to make enough money. This is for a proven winning pIayer. I am not saying everyone should have £2k in their sky accounts and some should have a lot more. I think Phil has suggested before about having a poker bank account and I think this is a good idea. Over the years there has been lots of people who have suggested playing for a living and generally I advise people not to do it. Everyone has to do what is right for them in life and more so in the current climate.
The ‘living in another world‘ comment wasn’t meant to be derogatory in any way, just for most of us as rec players and those people who like to use poker to supplement their Income, the figures quoted seemed high.
I’m not sure the comparison to a tradesman who buys and carries £2k stock to provide a service for which he is paid is an accurate comparison, but hey that what debate is, different opinions and views accepted with mutual respect...
Perhaps a my current £ situation also has a bearing on my views and position? Don’t think so
@madprof I realise that it can sound unrealistic or even vulgar when when people talk about having thousands at their disposal for online poker, especially in the current climate. However, it should be remembered that in the vast majority of cases those poker war chests were slowly built up from very small seeds.
The diary of @waller02 is a perfect example. Last June he began with £100 and now has well over £4,000 in his poker bankroll. This wasn't achieved without some graft on Waller's part though - he was studying hard to improve his game alongside trying to grow his bankroll, and he then made the very wise decision to re-invest some of his initial winnings in coaching to boost his development further still. I was a break-even recreational player for years before going on a similar journey to Waller.
Never before has so much quality content been freely or cheaply available for those who want to improve their game. The downside to this is that as more people improve at the game, the higher the bar gets for maintaining a winning edge, so we're all well and truly kept on our toes, but that's part of the fun too
Hey Dues...I know about @waller02 Excellent progress..I think at some stage I may even have contributed to it!
I accept I may have misread some of the principles behind Matts reply, however I think the point I was trying to make- badly in my own flippant way was...-wow people can afford to have 2k ( or more it seems) hanging around in a poker account? not in my world for sure
I’ve already disagreed with Matt’s plumber needing copper pipe comparison so that’s old ground
I also keep a separate account to track my poker journey but if I win anything of note...out it comes and I then put back funds into Sky as and when I need to upto my daily limit...
So when we talk about funds in this way, it’s just a case of levels:
Matt and many others are premier league, I’m at best National league South! ( ok,ok...isthmian league then...)
and isn’t the £ differences between them also a great talking and debating point?
It isn't a silly question...in shock news like most poker things it depends!
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance? How much money do you have in reserve? Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes? How do you react to bill pressure? Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you t To pay the mortgage for the next 3decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors. tHe
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some Haverhill an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month. You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
Matt..genuinely I’m pleased for you..but you live in another world with these figures, thousands hanging around in your poker account, just waiting to be doubled up
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
Money is effectively the tools of the trade for a poker player. The numbers relate to Angmar. They will be different for all players.
I don't see how this is another world with these figures. Are you aware of the swings of poker? We are talking about someone effectively playing poker full time as a job to pay bills. They are doing this to make money to pay their mortgage. You need money to make money with poker and you need to be able to stay in games but also pay your bills. If we were talking about a tradesman and I said they should have £2k for supplies would you say that's living in another world?
If you don't have an appropriate roll you have to drop down stakes and then your earning potential falls and you get to a stage where its not possible to make enough money. This is for a proven winning pIayer. I am not saying everyone should have £2k in their sky accounts and some should have a lot more. I think Phil has suggested before about having a poker bank account and I think this is a good idea. Over the years there has been lots of people who have suggested playing for a living and generally I advise people not to do it. Everyone has to do what is right for them in life and more so in the current climate.
The ‘living in another world‘ comment wasn’t meant to be derogatory in any way, just for most of us as rec players and those people who like to use poker to supplement their Income, the figures quoted seemed high.
I’m not sure the comparison to a tradesman who buys and carries £2k stock to provide a service for which he is paid is an accurate comparison, but hey that what debate is, different opinions and views accepted with mutual respect...
Perhaps a my current £ situation also has a bearing on my views and position? Don’t think so
Be lucky...
MP aka PP aka Danny
Its not the best analogy to be honest. Also everyone's situations are different. Some will be fine with £500 online, others will need £50000.
However if you think of it that you make on average X% ROI by entering a tournament. To be able to cope with the variance of playing these tournaments you need a bankroll of £1500 before you have to reduce the games you play. Based on this you wouldn't want to only have £1500 BR as then it means one losing session and you have to adjust what you play.
While the amount may seem vulgar but you need to have money online to make money and you want to be rolled for the games you play.
If you are playing for fun then play what you want and with money you can afford to lose.
Really strange week last week! Zero conducting in a week that would ordinarily have been one of the busier ones of the season. The two afternoons of teaching continued as normal, which was great to have some form of non-poker income coming in. Of course the school has now had to close until further notice, but started running these lessons yesterday as virtual lessons on Zoom which actually worked pretty well! Not managed to retain 100% of pupils but it's something, which is a big big boost!
Poker-wise managed to put in a lot of study last week which was really great and something I'm going to try and continue whilst taking poker a bit more seriously. Tuesday was the first day I played as a 'pro' and played like absolute trash and lost a chunk Every spot felt like "OMG I have to win money" which of course isn't true and led to a lot of suboptimal play. Rest of the week I played much better and turned a profit of £120. Not amazing for a week of 'work' but a definite step in the right direction and I'd take that any day over having a losing first week! Also managed to luckbox £30 in the prize draw so if you add that and small amount of rakeback, +£157 doesn't sound so bad
From this week though I've decided (and am fully aware I may decide something completely different again soon whilst figuring things out!) that for the next month at least I'm just going to live from money I've saved for my emergency fund and not even think about poker as a means of paying bills. I think for me personally I'll make more money (or more EV at least lol) if I take poker really seriously and work hard at it but without putting all the extra pressure of "rent money rent money rent money" in the back of my mind. Obviously it's not a long term solution but will try it and see how it goes. One of the major things I think it will help is stopping me from shying away from +EV spots I'm rolled for. For most of last week whilst I upped my volume I actually dropped my ABI even further out of fear of losing etc. This week I want to be playing 20s and playing an ABI of 7-10 region where possible rather than ABI 3-4 haha. Will see how it goes! Field sizes in the day time games have been absolute bananas!! Saw one game that usually gets 30 runners hit 150!
Comments
Is different methods and is a few factors to consider.
Key is staying in games but an ability to put food on the table is kind of important too and this requires money being withdrawn!
How will you react to a bigger online balance?
How much money do you have in reserve?
Are the bigger games ones you are confident in or are they risky shot takes?
How do you react to bill pressure?
Is there GF pressure regarding bills? Eg she may prefer money in the bank for bills so a lower online balance would ease this pressure.
What you decide on depends on amongst other things the above but I am sure there is additional factors.
Some people withdraw down to say £2k at the end of the month/top up back to there if required. Some have an amount if they hit that they withdraw down to at any point during the month.
You can withdraw for bills as and when they are due.
Ideally you have say 3months+ bill money in reserve so it could be you withdraw once you get to say £2.5k down to £2k until you have 3 months bill money in reserve then once you have that keep a higher online balance.
I'm late to the party, but well played on getting to the £2k mark.
Glgl but in the real world I’m gonna try something different to pay the mortgage for the next 3 months
GL to all those guys who do this to make a living...I’m not worthy 👹
Firstly, I'm a huge bankroll nit and am generally way over-rolled for any of the games/stakes I tend to play. Although my approach to BRM would definitely be sub-optimal for those who are looking to systematically climb the stakes, for me it has a very positive effect on my mental game in terms of being mostly unaffected by the natural swings of the game - I would have to go on a truly monumental downswing before being forced to drop down from my current stakes. Given that I don't have much need to grow my bankroll at this stage, I have used two different approaches to paying/rewarding myself, with one definitely preferable over the other in my experience.
So, I maintain a dedicated poker roll of £X for use across multiple sites and anything above £X I withdraw to the life roll at a certain point. One approach I have used is to make a regular single withdrawal at the end of every month of all the profits accrued over that period, regardless of whatever that figure may be - like a standard payday for any regular job. The second approach I have used is that I withdraw profits in blocks of £1k, however frequently (or infrequently!) each £1k chunk of profit is generated.
For me, the latter of those withdrawal approaches has proved infinitely preferable. At a glance it doesn't look like it should make much difference, but I found that the end of month payday approach really messed with my mental game. As the latter part of the month arrived, I would find myself getting protective of whatever profits had been made thus far and become super risk-averse for the last week of each month, which is hugely -EV of course. I'd be thinking something like "Ooh, if I can finish the month with what I've made so far, I'll be able to treat myself to that particularly snazzy new hat I've been eyeing up". By only withdrawing profits in set chunks of £1k at a time, I have completely removed that mental game leak.
One final thing to mention is that I only keep a small proportion of my overall bankroll in any of my online poker accounts at any time - the rest sits in a separate instant access savings account with my bank. Whilst I would have little concern with leaving a big chunk in my Sky account in particular, you can never say never so it seem sensible to me to mitigate my financial risk/exposure wherever possible. After all, who'd have ever really expected Full Tilt to blow up the way it did back in the day?
Gl with everything, Ang. Are you planning on doing anything for a side side-income along the way (music tuition?) or are you purely throwing yourself into poker? Apologies if you've covered this, was reading the updates while (semi) grinding and was thinking about headwear.
All the best with everything.
When is the monthly diary update for you sir?
I get that it's a scary/stressful time for many many people though! Hope things are ok with you, Sir Prof
I think I'd be the same as you when it comes to the monthly withdrawal and nitting it up leading up to that point! As an example, for UKOPS I always make a separate spreadsheet of things I want to play and update it during the series. There have been a couple of times where I've had it planned for weeks to buy in to the main event and all the big stuff on the final day but I've come into the final day +£200 for the series or whatever and all of a sudden skipping those big events and guaranteeing a profitable series starts to seem ever so tempting! And it makes absolutely zero sense. These events come around 2 or 3 times a year and trying to cling on to a relatively small amount of profit for the sake of being in profit is pretty ludicrous.
I don't see how this is another world with these figures. Are you aware of the swings of poker? We are talking about someone effectively playing poker full time as a job to pay bills. They are doing this to make money to pay their mortgage. You need money to make money with poker and you need to be able to stay in games but also pay your bills. If we were talking about a tradesman and I said they should have £2k for supplies would you say that's living in another world?
If you don't have an appropriate roll you have to drop down stakes and then your earning potential falls and you get to a stage where its not possible to make enough money. This is for a proven winning pIayer. I am not saying everyone should have £2k in their sky accounts and some should have a lot more. I think Phil has suggested before about having a poker bank account and I think this is a good idea.
Over the years there has been lots of people who have suggested playing for a living and generally I advise people not to do it. Everyone has to do what is right for them in life and more so in the current climate.
Thanks for a(nother) very considered response
The ‘living in another world‘ comment wasn’t meant to be derogatory in any way, just for most of us as rec players and those people who like to use poker to supplement their Income, the figures quoted seemed high.
I’m not sure the comparison to a tradesman who buys and carries £2k stock to provide a service for which he is paid is an accurate comparison, but hey that what debate is, different opinions and views accepted with mutual respect...
Perhaps a my current £ situation also has a bearing on my views and position? Don’t think so
Be lucky...
MP aka PP aka Danny
The diary of @waller02 is a perfect example. Last June he began with £100 and now has well over £4,000 in his poker bankroll. This wasn't achieved without some graft on Waller's part though - he was studying hard to improve his game alongside trying to grow his bankroll, and he then made the very wise decision to re-invest some of his initial winnings in coaching to boost his development further still. I was a break-even recreational player for years before going on a similar journey to Waller.
Never before has so much quality content been freely or cheaply available for those who want to improve their game. The downside to this is that as more people improve at the game, the higher the bar gets for maintaining a winning edge, so we're all well and truly kept on our toes, but that's part of the fun too
I accept I may have misread some of the principles behind Matts reply, however I think the point I was trying to make- badly in my own flippant way was...-wow people can afford to have 2k ( or more it seems) hanging around in a poker account? not in my world for sure
I’ve already disagreed with Matt’s plumber needing copper pipe comparison so that’s old ground
I also keep a separate account to track my poker journey but if I win anything of note...out it comes and I then put back funds into Sky as and when I need to upto my daily limit...
So when we talk about funds in this way, it’s just a case of levels:
Matt and many others are premier league,
I’m at best National league South! ( ok,ok...isthmian league then...)
and isn’t the £ differences between them also a great talking and debating point?
Be lucky
https://community.skypoker.com/profile/madprof
Hat 🎩 offer still stands..
However if you think of it that you make on average X% ROI by entering a tournament. To be able to cope with the variance of playing these tournaments you need a bankroll of £1500 before you have to reduce the games you play. Based on this you wouldn't want to only have £1500 BR as then it means one losing session and you have to adjust what you play.
While the amount may seem vulgar but you need to have money online to make money and you want to be rolled for the games you play.
If you are playing for fun then play what you want and with money you can afford to lose.
Poker-wise managed to put in a lot of study last week which was really great and something I'm going to try and continue whilst taking poker a bit more seriously. Tuesday was the first day I played as a 'pro' and played like absolute trash and lost a chunk
From this week though I've decided (and am fully aware I may decide something completely different again soon whilst figuring things out!) that for the next month at least I'm just going to live from money I've saved for my emergency fund and not even think about poker as a means of paying bills. I think for me personally I'll make more money (or more EV at least lol) if I take poker really seriously and work hard at it but without putting all the extra pressure of "rent money rent money rent money" in the back of my mind. Obviously it's not a long term solution but will try it and see how it goes. One of the major things I think it will help is stopping me from shying away from +EV spots I'm rolled for. For most of last week whilst I upped my volume I actually dropped my ABI even further out of fear of losing etc. This week I want to be playing 20s and playing an ABI of 7-10 region where possible rather than ABI 3-4 haha. Will see how it goes! Field sizes in the day time games have been absolute bananas!! Saw one game that usually gets 30 runners hit 150!
Thanks for reading, glgl