Hand 1 feels like we are hoping he limp calls all combos of QT and then takes this super nutted line with it. I think as played we obviously can't fold flop and getting a great price on turn we should call too. I think a turn call / evaluate on rivers is the best way forward and shoving feels like an overplay here.
Never be afraid to just get bluffed by a limp call - he has all of the 9's, we essentially have none. If he somehow gets you off top pair on the river with a bluff then good game to him, its a relatively small pot and we can move on to the next hand and maintain the chip lead.
Why would him limping convince you that he doesn’t have a 9?
It should have actually read;
Convinced myself he didn't have the AQ because he limped pre. Also ruled out him having trips (i.e. the 9) because he re-raised the flop which most players wouldn't do.
Hand 1 feels like we are hoping he limp calls all combos of QT and then takes this super nutted line with it. I think as played we obviously can't fold flop and getting a great price on turn we should call too. I think a turn call / evaluate on rivers is the best way forward and shoving feels like an overplay here.
Never be afraid to just get bluffed by a limp call - he has all of the 9's, we essentially have none. If he somehow gets you off top pair on the river with a bluff then good game to him, its a relatively small pot and we can move on to the next hand and maintain the chip lead.
Agreed. It was the re-raise on the flop with trips that threw me off. That's a very unusual line, even though I lead out. Nevertheless, even with that unusual play, shoving was clearly nonsensical.
Just finished 2nd in tonight's mini which is quite nice. Had an enormous chip lead from about the final 30, and also heading into the FT; didn't blow it for once. Technically you could argue that 'only' finishing in 2nd place is blowing it considering I had double the stack of 2nd in chips as the FT began. Nevertheless, it feels like progress for me. I certainly started to feel increasingly comfortable as the latter stages played out.
Interestingly, I don't feel like I played any better than average tonight. Just found myself in good spots.
I noted down lots of hands to review tomorrow, including many things other players did that I don't understand.
I'll post some hands here tomorrow no doubt.
Q1 2020: Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020: Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins
Not an easy question to answer accurately as it will be influenced by a number of factors. Average field size (larger fields = lower %) and the average buy-in (lower buy-in = higher %) will have the greatest impact on the numbers but something like 35% / 10% / 2% seems like a decent Sky-specific benchmark.
For a bit more context, Matt Bates' numbers are approx. 36% / 18% / 4%
Not an easy question to answer accurately as it will be influenced by a number of factors. Average field size (larger fields = lower %) and the average buy-in (lower buy-in = higher %) will have the greatest impact on the numbers but something like 35% / 10% / 2% seems like a decent Sky-specific benchmark.
For a bit more context, Matt Bates' numbers are approx. 36% / 18% / 4%
and then someone like Duesenit has 42% ITM...
Interesting. I feel like I'm probably a little above the 30% mark for ITM since my last major step forward, and actually Sharkscope shows me at 45.6% since September 2018.
FT's & Wins is where it falls down. FT's I would estimate I am at about 2%, and wins less than 1%. Strangely my wins section on Sharscope shows 529/1764 - which can't be right.
I think I have quite an unusual SharkScope profile actually, it seems to show I'm super strong is some areas, and terrible in others - all linking to my inability to navigate from just cashing to getting onto the FT.
It's got to the point where I am so completely clueless about what decisions I should be making. Basically just button clicking now, I'm not sure where to go from here really. Maybe coaching specifically for the final stages would be appriopriate. It is something I have considered before, but never pulled the trigger on. Open to advice from anyone!
Not an easy question to answer accurately as it will be influenced by a number of factors. Average field size (larger fields = lower %) and the average buy-in (lower buy-in = higher %) will have the greatest impact on the numbers but something like 35% / 10% / 2% seems like a decent Sky-specific benchmark.
One thing I would say is you need to look at all the statistics in conjunction. A high ITM % may not necessarily be a good thing if you are getting ITM a lot but not converting to FTs.
With ITM on scope it counts a bounty as a cash so be aware of that.
... my inability to navigate from just cashing to getting onto the FT.
It's got to the point where I am so completely clueless about what decisions I should be making. Basically just button clicking now, I'm not sure where to go from here really. Maybe coaching specifically for the final stages would be appropriate. It is something I have considered before, but never pulled the trigger on. Open to advice from anyone!
If I may be so bold, I think you are a little too tight and you might not be adjusting well when the tournament goes from a post flop game to more of a pre flop game in the late-mid and late stages.
I'm going to say some things about MTT which are going to be obvious to all long term winning players but maybe less obvious to breakeven players and losing players. If you watch the best players through the different stages of an MTT you might well be thinking "wow, this guys actually just a massive nit" in the early game and then by the late game you might well be thinking "wow, this guy is actually a maniac". They understand the format. They know how 'light' they are allowed to go broke in different spots at different stack depths pre and post flop. They recognise when they should be changing gears and ramping up the aggression with open shoves and 3 bet shoves and with which hands to do it with profitably in different spots.
A lot of players seem to play the same way all tournament from 100bb right down to 12/10bb sometimes with no adjustments in between and seemingly no awareness of how the tournament has evolved since it started - they are still trying to play early game, deep stacked ranges and strategy in the late game with shallow stacks and deep blinds... I had an MTT the other night where it was late game (final two tables) and I was sat on 18bb on the button with 77. It folded through to an active player in the cut-off who opened off his 30bb stack. This is a no brainer 3 bet shove (in almost all circumstances) there are no other options - if anyone reading this is just calling in this spot (to hit a 7 or a straight draw or a low flop or a "safe flop to get it in on") you are doing it wrong. Lo and behold I shoved and ran it into his QQ. Cue a weak-tight losing player in the big blind to say "why did he go all-in at this stage for so much with 77? He was only going to be flipping at best and he wasn't even flipping lol".
I'm not saying you share this way of thinking peter, but it is a surprisingly common way of thinking from players who rarely go deep in tournaments unless they run pure or win multiple big pots with premiums. You can't play tight and be risk averse in the late game and wait for clear spots right down to 12/10bb because "that's when I'm allowed to start going all-in pre flop". You should be aggressively shoving and re-shoving when much deeper than this in some spots and it's important to be able to recognise when those spots present themselves. The key to the late game in MTT isn't knowing your push-fold ranges once you have chipped down to 15bb and under, it's knowing which hands are good 3 bets at 40-30bb in different spots and good 3 bet shoves at ~25bb.
To take the Mini on Sky as an example of when you should be adjusting massively in a tournament; once you've made the money you will see that the pay jumps are miniscule right the way up to the top 10 or so (you could argue they are still relatively small right up until the FT). This is the time when the shackles really need to come off and you really should be opening up and not be scared of going broke in an attempt to accumulate a stack that can take you to the FT and hopefully on to the win... first things first though, no tournament is ever won before the FT.
Thanks Tikay. I often hesitate to post those ones because I worry how it might come across. I'm also aware that I'm only a micro stakes player myself and probably have no right to talk as though I'm an authority on all matters MTT
Don't be coy, that post will be invaluable to many players if they take the trouble to absorb it. I know for sure that Peter will, he's very keen to learn.
Not an easy question to answer accurately as it will be influenced by a number of factors. Average field size (larger fields = lower %) and the average buy-in (lower buy-in = higher %) will have the greatest impact on the numbers but something like 35% / 10% / 2% seems like a decent Sky-specific benchmark.
One thing I would say is you need to look at all the statistics in conjunction. A high ITM % may not necessarily be a good thing if you are getting ITM a lot but not converting to FTs.
With ITM on scope it counts a bounty as a cash so be aware of that.
... my inability to navigate from just cashing to getting onto the FT.
It's got to the point where I am so completely clueless about what decisions I should be making. Basically just button clicking now, I'm not sure where to go from here really. Maybe coaching specifically for the final stages would be appropriate. It is something I have considered before, but never pulled the trigger on. Open to advice from anyone!
If I may be so bold, I think you are a little too tight and you might not be adjusting well when the tournament goes from a post flop game to more of a pre flop game in the late-mid and late stages.
I'm going to say some things about MTT which are going to be obvious to all long term winning players but maybe less obvious to breakeven players and losing players. If you watch the best players through the different stages of an MTT you might well be thinking "wow, this guys actually just a massive nit" in the early game and then by the late game you might well be thinking "wow, this guy is actually a maniac". They understand the format. They know how 'light' they are allowed to go broke in different spots at different stack depths pre and post flop. They recognise when they should be changing gears and ramping up the aggression with open shoves and 3 bet shoves and with which hands to do it with profitably in different spots.
A lot of players seem to play the same way all tournament from 100bb right down to 12/10bb sometimes with no adjustments in between and seemingly no awareness of how the tournament has evolved since it started - they are still trying to play early game, deep stacked ranges and strategy in the late game with shallow stacks and deep blinds... I had an MTT the other night where it was late game (final two tables) and I was sat on 18bb on the button with 77. It folded through to an active player in the cut-off who opened off his 30bb stack. This is a no brainer 3 bet shove (in almost all circumstances) there are no other options - if anyone reading this is just calling in this spot (to hit a 7 or a straight draw or a low flop or a "safe flop to get it in on") you are doing it wrong. Lo and behold I shoved and ran it into his QQ. Cue a weak-tight losing player in the big blind to say "why did he go all-in at this stage for so much with 77? He was only going to be flipping at best and he wasn't even flipping lol".
I'm not saying you share this way of thinking peter, but it is a surprisingly common way of thinking from players who rarely go deep in tournaments unless they run pure or win multiple big pots with premiums. You can't play tight and be risk averse in the late game and wait for clear spots right down to 12/10bb because "that's when I'm allowed to start going all-in pre flop". You should be aggressively shoving and re-shoving when much deeper than this in some spots and it's important to be able to recognise when those spots present themselves. The key to the late game in MTT isn't knowing your push-fold ranges once you have chipped down to 15bb and under, it's knowing which hands are good 3 bets at 40-30bb in different spots and good 3 bet shoves at ~25bb.
To take the Mini on Sky as an example of when you should be adjusting massively in a tournament; once you've made the money you will see that the pay jumps are miniscule right the way up to the top 10 or so (you could argue they are still relatively small right up until the FT). This is the time when the shackles really need to come off and you really should be opening up and not be scared of going broke in an attempt to accumulate a stack that can take you to the FT and hopefully on to the win... first things first though, no tournament is ever won before the FT.
I echo what everyone else has said, this is a brilliant explanation and you should absolutely not be hesitant about posting. We're a community and we're all here to learn from each other - the stakes you play are irrelevant.
I do agree with your assessment that I am too tight in the later stages. The problem is that I don't know two things:
A) When to start loosening up - it sounds like you're suggesting after the money bubble has burst. I imagine it also depends on my stack size, maybe tighter with a big stack to preserve chips? B ) How much to loosen up by, and in what positions.
And I seem to be struggling to find any support for this too. I watch a lot of videos where they explain your play should loosen up in the later stages, but there's no detail or substance about to what extent. If anyone has any recommended literature/videos about this it could help.
It's a work in progress, and a little bit demoralising at times because my cash rate is pretty good now - but they're nearly entirely all min cashes. You mentioned that it's important to "not be scared of going broke" and this is something I'm trying to bring into my play, but I am finding it challenging.
Comments
Never be afraid to just get bluffed by a limp call - he has all of the 9's, we essentially have none. If he somehow gets you off top pair on the river with a bluff then good game to him, its a relatively small pot and we can move on to the next hand and maintain the chip lead.
Convinced myself he didn't have the AQ because he limped pre. Also ruled out him having trips (i.e. the 9) because he re-raised the flop which most players wouldn't do. Possible, but not likely. There's another flush draw on the turn of course. Agreed. It was the re-raise on the flop with trips that threw me off. That's a very unusual line, even though I lead out. Nevertheless, even with that unusual play, shoving was clearly nonsensical. Nice one! Cheers.
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins
Q3 2020:
Tournaments: 98
Buy-Ins: £612.78
Cashes: £611.49
FT's: 5
Wins: 0
Starting to feel like my mid-late stage tournament play is getting slightly better after a small adjustment. Still a long way to go though.
Interestingly, I don't feel like I played any better than average tonight. Just found myself in good spots.
I noted down lots of hands to review tomorrow, including many things other players did that I don't understand.
I'll post some hands here tomorrow no doubt.
Q1 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins
Q3 2020:
Tournaments: 100
Buy-Ins: £623.78
Cashes: £857.69
FT's: 6
Wins: 0
Q1 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins
Q2 2020:
Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins
Q3 2020:
Tournaments: 132
Buy-Ins: £882.43
Cashes: £1003.11
FT's: 8
Wins: 1
On a bit of a bad run at the moment, keep losing flips - particularly when I get AK in pre.
Looking forward to the mini tonight though.
Cashes / FT's / Wins?
For cashes I think 33% is very good, right?
For a bit more context, Matt Bates' numbers are approx. 36% / 18% / 4%
and then someone like Duesenit has 42% ITM...
FT's & Wins is where it falls down. FT's I would estimate I am at about 2%, and wins less than 1%. Strangely my wins section on Sharscope shows 529/1764 - which can't be right.
I think I have quite an unusual SharkScope profile actually, it seems to show I'm super strong is some areas, and terrible in others - all linking to my inability to navigate from just cashing to getting onto the FT.
It's got to the point where I am so completely clueless about what decisions I should be making. Basically just button clicking now, I'm not sure where to go from here really. Maybe coaching specifically for the final stages would be appriopriate. It is something I have considered before, but never pulled the trigger on. Open to advice from anyone!
With ITM on scope it counts a bounty as a cash so be aware of that.
I'm going to say some things about MTT which are going to be obvious to all long term winning players but maybe less obvious to breakeven players and losing players. If you watch the best players through the different stages of an MTT you might well be thinking "wow, this guys actually just a massive nit" in the early game and then by the late game you might well be thinking "wow, this guy is actually a maniac". They understand the format. They know how 'light' they are allowed to go broke in different spots at different stack depths pre and post flop. They recognise when they should be changing gears and ramping up the aggression with open shoves and 3 bet shoves and with which hands to do it with profitably in different spots.
A lot of players seem to play the same way all tournament from 100bb right down to 12/10bb sometimes with no adjustments in between and seemingly no awareness of how the tournament has evolved since it started - they are still trying to play early game, deep stacked ranges and strategy in the late game with shallow stacks and deep blinds...
I had an MTT the other night where it was late game (final two tables) and I was sat on 18bb on the button with 77. It folded through to an active player in the cut-off who opened off his 30bb stack. This is a no brainer 3 bet shove (in almost all circumstances) there are no other options - if anyone reading this is just calling in this spot (to hit a 7 or a straight draw or a low flop or a "safe flop to get it in on") you are doing it wrong. Lo and behold I shoved and ran it into his QQ. Cue a weak-tight losing player in the big blind to say "why did he go all-in at this stage for so much with 77? He was only going to be flipping at best and he wasn't even flipping lol".
I'm not saying you share this way of thinking peter, but it is a surprisingly common way of thinking from players who rarely go deep in tournaments unless they run pure or win multiple big pots with premiums. You can't play tight and be risk averse in the late game and wait for clear spots right down to 12/10bb because "that's when I'm allowed to start going all-in pre flop". You should be aggressively shoving and re-shoving when much deeper than this in some spots and it's important to be able to recognise when those spots present themselves. The key to the late game in MTT isn't knowing your push-fold ranges once you have chipped down to 15bb and under, it's knowing which hands are good 3 bets at 40-30bb in different spots and good 3 bet shoves at ~25bb.
To take the Mini on Sky as an example of when you should be adjusting massively in a tournament; once you've made the money you will see that the pay jumps are miniscule right the way up to the top 10 or so (you could argue they are still relatively small right up until the FT). This is the time when the shackles really need to come off and you really should be opening up and not be scared of going broke in an attempt to accumulate a stack that can take you to the FT and hopefully on to the win... first things first though, no tournament is ever won before the FT.
@MynaFrett
That's a fabulous post @MynaFrett
@MynaFrett
Don't be coy, that post will be invaluable to many players if they take the trouble to absorb it. I know for sure that Peter will, he's very keen to learn.
+3
That really is so kind of you @MynaFrett for that wonderful post, and piece of advice.Hat's off to you kind Sir
THANK YOU
I do agree with your assessment that I am too tight in the later stages. The problem is that I don't know two things:
A) When to start loosening up - it sounds like you're suggesting after the money bubble has burst. I imagine it also depends on my stack size, maybe tighter with a big stack to preserve chips?
B ) How much to loosen up by, and in what positions.
And I seem to be struggling to find any support for this too. I watch a lot of videos where they explain your play should loosen up in the later stages, but there's no detail or substance about to what extent. If anyone has any recommended literature/videos about this it could help.
It's a work in progress, and a little bit demoralising at times because my cash rate is pretty good now - but they're nearly entirely all min cashes. You mentioned that it's important to "not be scared of going broke" and this is something I'm trying to bring into my play, but I am finding it challenging.
Thanks again for the insightful post.