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Diary of a determined player

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  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    edited October 2020
    Q1 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
    Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins

    Q2 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins

    Q3 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1153.74 / profit of £281.79 from 167 MTT's / 15 FT's / 2 Wins

    Q4 2020:
    Tournaments: 40
    Buy-Ins: £255.20
    Cashes: £269.14
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 2

    Two interesting things I realised today;

    - I reached the FT 43 times this year so far, winning 12 of them - or 27.9%.
    - I won 12/478 MTT's this year so far, which is 2.5%.

    I feel like those figures are actually pretty good, despite me previously thinking my play in the later stages was poor. I have made significant adjustments based on your feedback, and maybe that's why I have two wins already even though we're only 21 days into the quarter. Hmmm.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    edited October 2020
    Q1 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
    Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins

    Q2 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins

    Q3 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1153.74 / profit of £281.79 from 167 MTT's / 15 FT's / 2 Wins

    Q4 2020:
    Tournaments: 53
    Buy-Ins: £315.40
    Cashes: £296.66
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 2

    Starting to struggle slightly with my development. I feel like I can be a strong player during all phases of a tournament now (early/middle/late) - although I have yet to master putting it all together consistently.

    I am just not completely sure how to continue developing at this stage. I did consider coaching briefly, but the hourly rates seem hard to justify whilst I am playing £5.50 buy-in tournaments. I have been watching a lot of successful poker streamers recently to continue learning. Any other suggestions?
  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,140
    edited October 2020
    peter27 said:

    Q1 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
    Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins

    Q2 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins

    Q3 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1153.74 / profit of £281.79 from 167 MTT's / 15 FT's / 2 Wins

    Q4 2020:
    Tournaments: 53
    Buy-Ins: £315.40
    Cashes: £296.66
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 2

    Starting to struggle slightly with my development. I feel like I can be a strong player during all phases of a tournament now (early/middle/late) - although I have yet to master putting it all together consistently.

    I am just not completely sure how to continue developing at this stage. I did consider coaching briefly, but the hourly rates seem hard to justify whilst I am playing £5.50 buy-in tournaments. I have been watching a lot of successful poker streamers recently to continue learning. Any other suggestions?

    I think that’s how you justify it
    At the moment you’re playing £5.50s and are fairly breakeven
    With coaching you might be beating those games and moving up to higher stakes

    I believe @Arrogant offers decent rates
  • MP33MP33 Member Posts: 5,823
    peter27 said:

    Q1 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
    Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins

    Q2 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins

    Q3 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1153.74 / profit of £281.79 from 167 MTT's / 15 FT's / 2 Wins

    Q4 2020:
    Tournaments: 53
    Buy-Ins: £315.40
    Cashes: £296.66
    FT's: 2
    Wins: 2

    Starting to struggle slightly with my development. I feel like I can be a strong player during all phases of a tournament now (early/middle/late) - although I have yet to master putting it all together consistently.

    I am just not completely sure how to continue developing at this stage. I did consider coaching briefly, but the hourly rates seem hard to justify whilst I am playing £5.50 buy-in tournaments. I have been watching a lot of successful poker streamers recently to continue learning. Any other suggestions?


    Carry on watching the vids if you enjoy them and maybe twitch. Or maybe a training site for a month
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    edited October 2020
    Jac35 said:

    I think that’s how you justify it
    At the moment you’re playing £5.50s and are fairly breakeven
    With coaching you might be beating those games and moving up to higher stakes

    I believe @Arrogant offers decent rates

    I get the logic completely, but the quotes I have had so far range from £40 - £199 per hour. At the upper end even winning a £5.50 tournament wouldn't cover the cost of one hour's coaching :D

    If @Arrogant sees this post and wants to DM me with details I am happy to discuss it.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    One of the issues of having a diary on the forum is that you open yourself up to a lot of critisism. This hand is going to make me look stupid, but on the flip side, it will help me to gather my thoughts.

    This is from a Super Sat into the £6k BH tonight.

    A few times during previous orbits I had been raising with hands like 76s QTo, and miniman88 was re-raising, which meant I had to fold.

    On this occasion - I suppose I lost patience with his aggression. A stupid play of course and I should have given up when he's check-raising the flop :'(
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    roytheboy7Small blind50.0050.003080.00
    miniman88Big blind100.00150.003042.00
    Your hole cards
    • A
    • 10
    FILIPSEBOFold
    peter27Raise222.00372.005551.00
    roytheboy7Fold
    miniman88Call122.00494.002920.00
    Flop
    • 4
    • Q
    • Q
    miniman88Check
    peter27Bet222.00716.005329.00
    miniman88Raise644.001360.002276.00
    peter27Call422.001782.004907.00
    Turn
    • J
    miniman88Bet600.002382.001676.00
    peter27All-in4907.007289.000.00
    miniman88All-in1676.008965.000.00
    peter27Unmatched bet2631.006334.002631.00
    miniman88Show
    • Q
    • J
    peter27Show
    • A
    • 10
    River
    • 3
    miniman88WinFull House, Queens and Jacks6334.006334.00
    Against the known better players on this site (of which miniman88 is one), it is hard to find the balance right between not being pushed around due to their aggression - but also not over-compensating and making ridiculous plays like above.

    One thing I remember from Jen Mason during the Sky Poker TV days is that if you're facing a super aggressive player, you should tighten up, and vice-versa. However if you tighten up and don't get a decent hand for a few orbits, you then start to look like a pushover which can be heavily exploited.

    Tricky situation.
  • miniman88miniman88 Member Posts: 132
    peter27 said:

    One of the issues of having a diary on the forum is that you open yourself up to a lot of critisism. This hand is going to make me look stupid, but on the flip side, it will help me to gather my thoughts.

    This is from a Super Sat into the £6k BH tonight.

    A few times during previous orbits I had been raising with hands like 76s QTo, and miniman88 was re-raising, which meant I had to fold.

    On this occasion - I suppose I lost patience with his aggression. A stupid play of course and I should have given up when he's check-raising the flop :'(

    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    roytheboy7Small blind50.0050.003080.00
    miniman88Big blind100.00150.003042.00
    Your hole cards
    • A
    • 10
    FILIPSEBOFold
    peter27Raise222.00372.005551.00
    roytheboy7Fold
    miniman88Call122.00494.002920.00
    Flop
    • 4
    • Q
    • Q
    miniman88Check
    peter27Bet222.00716.005329.00
    miniman88Raise644.001360.002276.00
    peter27Call422.001782.004907.00
    Turn
    • J
    miniman88Bet600.002382.001676.00
    peter27All-in4907.007289.000.00
    miniman88All-in1676.008965.000.00
    peter27Unmatched bet2631.006334.002631.00
    miniman88Show
    • Q
    • J
    peter27Show
    • A
    • 10
    River
    • 3
    miniman88WinFull House, Queens and Jacks6334.006334.00
    Against the known better players on this site (of which miniman88 is one), it is hard to find the balance right between not being pushed around due to their aggression - but also not over-compensating and making ridiculous plays like above.

    One thing I remember from Jen Mason during the Sky Poker TV days is that if you're facing a super aggressive player, you should tighten up, and vice-versa. However if you tighten up and don't get a decent hand for a few orbits, you then start to look like a pushover which can be heavily exploited.

    Tricky situation.
    I had a feeling you was going to post this hand. Two things for me to say here. First of all, when I joined the table you had heaps, 9-10k which is either 4.5-5 starting stacks or just over 3 (forgot what the starting stack was) and in general in a satellite you want to be playing more on the tight side with a big stack towards the middle and late stages of a sat, which is opposite to a normal mtt. It felt like you was playing every hand when you had heaps, I see so many regs deep in sats with cashing stacks taking every chip ev spot to try finish 1st, they don't realise they're burning money there. Opening this hand at this stage of a sat is fine obviously but I'm just pointing out that you dumped a lot of your stack off before this hand unnecessarily.

    Let's get to the hand. You've clearly stated and noted that I'm aggressive and have decided to cbet ahigh for value and to deny my equity on a paired board. You should be checking this back most of the time vs me, for one I have more Qx hands than you, I have all the suited Qx hands which I don't think you do (I don't think this is that relevant though) but the main thing is you're just opening yourself up to getting x raised off the best hand. I'd x raise hands like 65s here sometimes and if you don't fold the flop, I'd be getting you to fold on the turn a good amount of the time. Check back and if I x to you on the turn, then I'd love a small delayed bet for value, checking back again is fine also. If someone is playing back at you, don't let it frustrate you and make you make plays that you wouldn't do otherwise, it feels like you had enough of me in this hand and decided to fire back with some unneeded aggression. What's your logic in shoving the turn? just shove and hope the fuucker folds so he can taste some of his own medicine? I remember a few months ago I was deep in the main and I kept 3b/4b'ing a certain reg in the most standard spots ever and then there was a hand where I defended my bb to his bttn open w A2cc and x call a small cbet on 863c, A x call, Q x x....he turns over K8 and goes absolutely mad in chat saying omg you're awful how the **** do you peel the flop. Perfectly fine peel, the guy was just frustrated after feeling I was targeting him...and he was on a downswing. Controlling emotions in poker is **** tough dude.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    edited October 2020
    miniman88 said:

    I had a feeling you was going to post this hand. Two things for me to say here. First of all, when I joined the table you had heaps, 9-10k which is either 4.5-5 starting stacks or just over 3 (forgot what the starting stack was) and in general in a satellite you want to be playing more on the tight side with a big stack towards the middle and late stages of a sat, which is opposite to a normal mtt. It felt like you was playing every hand when you had heaps, I see so many regs deep in sats with cashing stacks taking every chip ev spot to try finish 1st, they don't realise they're burning money there. Opening this hand at this stage of a sat is fine obviously but I'm just pointing out that you dumped a lot of your stack off before this hand unnecessarily.

    Let's get to the hand. You've clearly stated and noted that I'm aggressive and have decided to cbet ahigh for value and to deny my equity on a paired board. You should be checking this back most of the time vs me, for one I have more Qx hands than you, I have all the suited Qx hands which I don't think you do (I don't think this is that relevant though) but the main thing is you're just opening yourself up to getting x raised off the best hand. I'd x raise hands like 65s here sometimes and if you don't fold the flop, I'd be getting you to fold on the turn a good amount of the time. Check back and if I x to you on the turn, then I'd love a small delayed bet for value, checking back again is fine also. If someone is playing back at you, don't let it frustrate you and make you make plays that you wouldn't do otherwise, it feels like you had enough of me in this hand and decided to fire back with some unneeded aggression. What's your logic in shoving the turn? just shove and hope the fuucker folds so he can taste some of his own medicine? I remember a few months ago I was deep in the main and I kept 3b/4b'ing a certain reg in the most standard spots ever and then there was a hand where I defended my bb to his bttn open w A2cc and x call a small cbet on 863c, A x call, Q x x....he turns over K8 and goes absolutely mad in chat saying omg you're awful how the **** do you peel the flop. Perfectly fine peel, the guy was just frustrated after feeling I was targeting him...and he was on a downswing. Controlling emotions in poker is **** tough dude.

    I'm glad to see you respond as it's always good to understand the thought process of the opponent.

    So I am aware that big stacks should be playing tighter in satellites, and actually a long time ago on this forum I believe I commented that I felt this was one of my strengths - the ability to judge when to tighten up to secure the prize. However, you're right that I did blow a huge amount of chips in a short space of time (around 5k in 12 hands). I have had a look through them and I do not think anything I did was too crazy here. Perhaps slightly loose - but I shut down early on all but one hand. Here's the list of my VPIP moments during those 12 hands. Would be interested to get your thoughts. Everything from the star and below is when you were on my table.

    [my hand / my pos / my action / my profit]
    89o / BTN / calling a 3x raise by HJ / -180
    A4o / CO / raise 3x / -180
    AKo / UTG / raise 2.5x / +120 *
    Q9s / BB / calling a 2x raise by UTG / -160
    T9s / BTN / raise 2.5x / -200
    ATs / SB / 3-bet the 2x raise by BTN / +240
    TT / BTN / 3-bet the 2x raise by CO, then call their shove (AQo) / -4480

    As for the specific hand above, you're absolutely right that my shove was out of frustration in the hope you were bluffing and I could take a pot. Stupid. There are a couple of things you said that I don't understand though.
    miniman88 said:

    You should be checking this back most of the time vs me, for one I have more Qx hands than you, I have all the suited Qx hands which I don't think you do (I don't think this is that relevant though) but the main thing is you're just opening yourself up to getting x raised off the best hand

    My brain is telling me the opposite, that I should be leading out most of the time vs you in this spot, so clearly I don't understand something. You do have range advantage (more Qx hands than me) but if I do check back to you here, and you bet out, surely I have to call one street just because you're an aggressive player? If I am going to call one street, doesn't it make sense for me to lead out and be the aggressor? With a pair on the rainbow board already it is more likely than not that you missed the flop - that was definitely a factor in my thinking. I know you are right but I would like to try understand where the flaw in my logic above is.
    miniman88 said:

    I'd x raise hands like 65s here sometimes

    That really surprised me. Is that a me-specific statement or a general statement? Presumably you then give up if they lead on the turn. What would be a factor as to why you would decide to check raise 65s here? Presumably you're doing this x% of the time, but how do you make that decision as to when?

    Thanks for the really thorough post. It's extremely insightful to see how you're approaching these things and I do apprieciate the time it must have taken to type all that out.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    Any thoughts on this hand in the mini?
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    ChampianSmall blind125.00125.0015550.00
    LuckyDaveBBig blind250.00375.006815.00
    Your hole cards
    • Q
    • K
    peter27Raise500.00875.0011255.00
    DaitwmFold
    AK57Call500.001375.0010705.00
    can60Call500.001875.004285.00
    ChampianFold
    LuckyDaveBFold
    Flop
    • 10
    • 10
    • Q
    peter27Check
    AK57Check
    can60Check
    Turn
    • 2
    peter27Bet575.002450.0010680.00
    AK57Fold
    can60Call575.003025.003710.00
    River
    • K
    peter27Bet1250.004275.009430.00
    can60All-in3710.007985.000.00
    peter27Fold
    can60Muck
    can60Win5525.005525.00
    can60Return2460.000.007985.00
    Instinct was telling me he had the 10 when he called on the turn, reinforced by his river shove. It's certainly well within his pre-flop calling range. Struggling to see what else matches this betting pattern, maybe a missed flush draw he's turning into a bad bluff? On the flip side though, it was only 10 BB's to make the call - albeit around 25% of my remaining stack.
  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,358
    Why would it be a bad bluff if he’s making you fold the best hand?
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    bbMike said:

    Why would it be a bad bluff if he’s making you fold the best hand?

    I mean that's a fair point I suppose :D I am struggling to see what he's representing that I couldn't have.
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    edited November 2020
    Q1 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £566.74 / loss of £58.92 from 83 MTT's / 7 FT's / 4 Wins
    Live: Buy-Ins: £380.00 / loss of £280.00 from 7 MTT's / 0 FT's / 0 Wins

    Q2 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1304.03 / profit of £222.26 from 188 MTT's / 19 FT's / 4 Wins

    Q3 2020:
    Online: Buy-Ins: £1153.74 / profit of £281.79 from 167 MTT's / 15 FT's / 2 Wins

    Q4 2020:
    Tournaments: 87
    Buy-Ins: £518.30
    Cashes: £528.86
    FT's: 4
    Wins: 3

    I haven't posted in quite a while and there is a reason for that but I am struggling to find the words to explain why. It's not a lack of motivation - but it is indifference towards poker at the moment. My play has completely stagnated recently. It's becoming very clear to me that I can come out on top against a large number of players on a consistent basis. However, when seated with the site's better players I get astonishingly outclassed. That gap between the less skilled players and the site's top competitors feels enormous - much more than I originally anticipated.

    Linking back to a post I made in the last month, this is part of my hesitancy around coaching. I feel like that gap is so large that I would need a huge amount of coaching time. 10 hours would range from anywhere between £400 - £1990 with the quotes I have had. To make that cost-viable I would need to win at least two £5.50 tournaments just to brake even, and that's assuming 10 hours is sufficient which I think is probably woefully under-estimating the size of the task.

    I do understand that coaching could potentially allow me to move up levels, but I'm still struggling to see a way I break even unless I manage to take down a £55 event.

    Has anyone on here had coaching before? How many hours did you have? Is there a way to quantify or explain the level of benefit felt? Sometimes you need a bit of encouragement to pursue an activity that deep down you know will probably be good. I feel like that's the case here.

    Anyhow, here's a hand from the UKOPS 61 Mini BH a few nights ago.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    Joec523Small blind15.0015.005477.50
    CleisBig blind30.0045.003000.00
    Your hole cards
    • 10
    • 9
    miniman88Fold
    rich-a-64Fold
    peter27Raise90.00135.002855.00
    claydonFold
    Joec523Fold
    CleisCall60.00195.002940.00
    Flop
    • 10
    • 9
    • Q
    CleisCheck
    peter27Bet100.00295.002755.00
    CleisCall100.00395.002840.00
    Turn
    • 8
    CleisCheck
    peter27Check
    River
    • 2
    CleisBet150.00545.002690.00
    peter27Call150.00695.002605.00
    CleisShow
    • Q
    • K
    peter27Show
    • 10
    • 9
    peter27WinTwo Pairs, 10s and 9s695.003300.00
    I don't like the way I got scared off betting on the turn with the straight draw on the table, but then called his river bet anyway. Something about the way I played this just feels a bit wrong to me - despite winning the hand. Maybe betting the turn and check/folding from that point onwards (assuming he calls the turn) would have made more sense? I can see that my flop bet should have probably been a little bigger. Thoughts?
  • waller02waller02 Member Posts: 8,481
    I had a 10 hour package with Melty at the start of the year. I have won 2 main events since and although I'm still far from being at the top reg level, I have won more this year than I did in the previous 8 years put together.

    You need to think of the long term when you invest in coaching, your results won't improve overnight, but you soon make back the money you invested and some.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,055
    I don't think your thinking in the right way about the cost of coaching. You should think of it more of if you improve your ROI by x%. It isn't like you can only use the information you have gained in a couple of events.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,894
    I haven't had coaching for MTT but I did get coaching for cash and it did offer some good advice at the beginning but over time I started to feel annoyed with it. If you gonna get coaching you must ensure you find a good coach and not someone who is just their to make money from you, as waller say's coaching will not improve results over night. Also it required you dedicating a lot of time and effort into doing work.


    Have you ever tried pio or GTO+ because you should start using them for sure. The main things you are gonna learn from a coach will have came from GTO+ or pio. Solvers will show you how a range should be getting played, the main advice from a coach will be people over fold, under bluff and don't thin value bet like they should
  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,629
    Thanks for that feedback on coaching guys. Message seems clear, spend more time on solvers and proceed with coaching with a view to long-term improvements. Cheers.

    Going to keep this brief as I'm exhausted. One quick and basic hand from the Mini UKOPS 04 tonight;

    Assuming no notes on the player, would you call this?

  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,358
    Yeah I think I do. Especially if it’s the only game I have left :D

    I think what swings it is how short the other two players are (so feasibly they could just be wide and hoping you can’t call if any of the others come along), the fact that you cover them for bounty, that they’re an unknown so perhaps more likely to be doing something with a hand we’re happy to see.

    Think of the upside if you win a flip here. Lots of future bounty potential and a huge stack. Might be wrong, but for those reasons I’d go for it.
  • FeelGroggyFeelGroggy Member Posts: 795
    Do not waste your time using solvers. You are not at the level where they are going to be useful.
    I think coaching would be perfect for someone like yourself. You seem to have the motivation and the potential to make money from poker, but are still making glaring errors and your thought process in some situations is still flawed.

    Really your options are to take the plunge into coaching, or to stubbornly continue as you are, and likely remain breakeven/ slightly winning for a long time or until you lose interest in the game. Which is a shame because some of your issues are reasonably easy to fix.

    Personally I would drop Melt a pm and sign up for 10 hours, if he still offers coaching. In terms of value for money it would be difficult to find better, he knows how sky pools play and has already had success coaching. If you decided to get coaching I would bet a lot of money you would make significantly more in a year than if you continue as you are. But the decision is yours. Good luck.
  • MynaFrettMynaFrett Member Posts: 722



    ...Really your options are to take the plunge into coaching, or to stubbornly continue as you are, and likely remain breakeven/ slightly winning for a long time or until you lose interest in the game...

    Hi Peter. I understand your scepticism around how effective a few hours of coaching could be and therefore your reluctance to take the plunge. I would argue that you can attain a reasonable level of competency without any coaching or investing any money at all. Get the good, free poker apps available to you first and use them regularly. Seek out the quality Youtube and Twitch content and watch it regularly. Soak up the information, retain it. Play regularly and attempt to apply what you've learned effectively. You should see improvements.

    Having said all that, a coach would no doubt get you to that level of competency (and beyond) much more quickly.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,055

    Do not waste your time using solvers. You are not at the level where they are going to be useful.
    I think coaching would be perfect for someone like yourself. You seem to have the motivation and the potential to make money from poker, but are still making glaring errors and your thought process in some situations is still flawed.

    Really your options are to take the plunge into coaching, or to stubbornly continue as you are, and likely remain breakeven/ slightly winning for a long time or until you lose interest in the game. Which is a shame because some of your issues are reasonably easy to fix.

    Personally I would drop Melt a pm and sign up for 10 hours, if he still offers coaching. In terms of value for money it would be difficult to find better, he knows how sky pools play and has already had success coaching. If you decided to get coaching I would bet a lot of money you would make significantly more in a year than if you continue as you are. But the decision is yours. Good luck.

    I agree with what Groggy said, especially the bolded bit.
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