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Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew

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    GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,202
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew : I will hijack Mr Thews thread! Why are you wanting to fold? Are you trying to ladder? Waiting for a better spot? As Julian said we can fold but I think its key to understand why we are folding.
    Posted by MattBates
    cos there are demons out there
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    rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew : I will hijack Mr Thews thread! Why are you wanting to fold? Are you trying to ladder? Waiting for a better spot? As Julian said we can fold but I think its key to understand why we are folding.
    Posted by MattBates
    cheers matt
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    rusty762rusty762 Member Posts: 124
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    hi rusty, in part it would depend on how i percieve the SB ie, tight/loose/aggro etc - my default reaction would be it's a call but it is worth remembering that there is some playability with a 10bb stack on sky poker because there are no running antes in play, so yes, to answer your question given the right circumstances i can definitely find a fold. hope it worked out for you!
    Posted by yoyo
    thx Julian - my default too, and I am very grateful for your condidered reply. 

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    yoyoyoyo Member Posts: 642
    edited March 2015
    no worries sir & tx for jumping in geldy & mattbates!
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    RadfordPOPRadfordPOP Member Posts: 4
    edited March 2015
    Hi. I have a hand to discuss and was wondering if it was quite spewy to throw away a 70BB stack near the money with AKo facing a 4-bet shove.

    It is a £300 deepstack tournament at DTD in Nottingham. I'm sure you have heard of this Julian! About 350 entered. with about 45 players remaining with 32 getting paid. Average is 350k. I have close to 700k. Villain has me covered with around 1 million. Blinds are 5,000/10,000/1,000ante.

    I have been rather active raising first-in quite a bit. Villian just arrived to the table an orbit ago and hasn't got involved yet.

    The button raises to 23k. I have AKo in the SB and 3-bet to 52k (looking back maybe I should have 3-bet a little larger?).

    He took around 5 seconds before announcing allin. Do I really need to spew off 70BB here? Or can I call knowing that I'm never crushed and that it's probably a flip?
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    yoyoyoyo Member Posts: 642
    edited March 2015
    hello sir,

    yes, i am somewhat familiar with that event!

    would def raise bigger as you're going to be out of position throughout the hand.

    with a comfy 70bb i prob would'nt be looking to get AK in vs a bigger stack with whom i have no history & i think in reviewing this hand a crucial part is to be honest & ask yourself did you even consider folding or was it just an auto call?

    i'm often guilty of making my mind up ahead of getting all the information...sometimes we need to step back & see the bigger picture!

    on a positive note, a good aggressive game should get you far & it's pretty unlucky to walk into kings or aces right?


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    GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,202
    edited March 2015
    its spewy says thewy (reading between the lines)
    why risk your tournie life on a flip
    easy to get away from
    don't know where you are
    haven't committed too much of your stack
    and you seem to be happy aggravating the smaller stacks

    easy fold
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    yoyoyoyo Member Posts: 642
    edited March 2015
    well said sir & i'm sure we've both done waaaay worse...
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    GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,202
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    well said sir & i'm sure we've both done waaaay worse...
    Posted by yoyo
    "well it seemed a good idea at the time ......" i know what you mean
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    F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,396
    edited March 2015
    Honestly, the mistake would be 3-betting this hand if you aren't comfortable then GII. By 3-bet/folding we've basically turned a great starting hand into a bluff. If villain did have AA or KK here in position I'm not sure he would 4bet jam AI either. This looks like we're flipping vs JJ/QQ a lot or we're in great shape against a worse ace that decided to bully us knowing it's going to be v hard for us to call w/o a monster.

    BTN/SB dynamics can be very aggressive so unless opponent was an old guy you'd traditionally label a nit then 3-bet/calling is perfectly standard.

    I'd definitely consider just flatting in future spots though if you are not happy 3bet/GII.
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    GELDYGELDY Member Posts: 5,202
    edited March 2015
    We've committed 5BB out of 70 readless nearing the bubble on a table we are happy to be aggro on. Do we really need to risk our tournie life? won't there be better positions to GII than somewhere where we are probably no better than 50/50.
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    bearlytherbearlyther Member Posts: 1,757
    edited March 2015
    A lot would depend on reads wheather we have developed any dynamic with the guy you say hes relatively new to the table within an orbit.  I think 3 bet folding is fine here this deep were 3 betting for value expecting him to call with worse or if he decides to 4 bet we can consider flatting the 4 bet as dont think we are looking to get it in this deep.  In live poker people generally play straight forward id be amazed if he just shipped with something like aq.  Most of the time he will just have a big hand and we dont need to get it in were either gonna be flipping or in very bad shape.  I would fold and feel very confident about it.  People will say its button vs sb i dont think thats very relavant in this spot.
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    RadfordPOPRadfordPOP Member Posts: 4
    edited March 2015
    Thanks for the replies guys! 

    I ended up tanking for about 5 minutes debating whether to call or not. I did end up calling and he had TT and i didn't hit. I guess i just called knowing he never has AA or KK there. The much more likely hokding are TT JJ QQ and AK. And more often than not it's going to be a flip. Maybe it's a mistake i dunno. One other thing i should mention is that there were some very very tough players left in the field. They probably have an edge over me. I can hold my own but i'm not as experienced as the others. 

    But whatever, learn from your mistakes i guess :)
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    F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,396
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    We've committed 5BB out of 70 readless nearing the bubble on a table we are happy to be aggro on. Do we really need to risk our tournie life? won't there be better positions to GII than somewhere where we are probably no better than 50/50.
    Posted by GELDY
    No better than 50/50 but no worse than 50/50 either. I'm not saying we need to risk our tournie life - I'm questioning the 3bet in the first place if we're not willing to risk our tournie life. 

    I disagree with bearlyther that we can 3bet for value but then fold to a shove. There are spots pre-flop where we can 3b for value and then fold but this isn't one of them. AK is a good starting hand but it doesn't exactly play that great in a 3bet pot OOP. By 3-betting we might fold out some of the hand we dominate - and the ones that we dominate that still call - even then, we're not going to flop the same TP as them that often given only 2 cards can come out for that to happen. Even when that does happen, we're not guaranteed to get their stack. 

    But by flatting pre, we under-represent our hand and can still gain plenty of value when we both flop the same TP but with a better kicker.


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    MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 4,118
    edited March 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew : No better than 50/50 but no worse than 50/50 either. I'm not saying we need to risk our tournie life - I'm questioning the 3bet in the first place if we're not willing to risk our tournie life.  I disagree with bearlyther that we can 3bet for value but then fold to a shove. There are spots pre-flop where we can 3b for value and then fold but this isn't one of them. AK is a good starting hand but it doesn't exactly play that great in a 3bet pot OOP. By 3-betting we might fold out some of the hand we dominate - and the ones that we dominate that still call - even then, we're not going to flop the same TP as them that often given only 2 cards can come out for that to happen. Even when that does happen, we're not guaranteed to get their stack.  But by flatting pre, we under-represent our hand and can still gain plenty of value when we both flop the same TP but with a better kicker.
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Given we are in the SB I would suggest we can 3b any hand we are playing. It gives us initiative in the pot and a lot of live players struggle to play 3b pots. If we are chipping up easily and don't expect him to do this with AQ/AJ/KQ then folding is fine as we will win plenty of chips risk free.
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    LmfaoAllinLmfaoAllin Member Posts: 1,213
    edited April 2015
    In Response to Re: Ask Thewy - Tournament Q&A with Julian Thew:
    no worries sir & tx for jumping in geldy & mattbates!
    Posted by yoyo
    Yes great advice from Matt and Geldy, especially Geldy, the threat of demons is often under estimated in the modern game
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