"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
Good to know about the swingyness, or lack there of, in PLO8. If I get one bad beat too many in NLH I may have to stop by. Chopping pots when you've made quads does sound pretty hard to stomach though .
"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
How do you find this effects things from a DYM perspective? As an outside observer, it seems harder to kill players off in PLO8 which would be a bad thing for us.
"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
How do you find this effects things from a DYM perspective? As an outside observer, it seems harder to kill players off in PLO8 which would be a bad thing for us.
A very fair point by the Newly Bearded One.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
How do you find this effects things from a DYM perspective? As an outside observer, it seems harder to kill players off in PLO8 which would be a bad thing for us.
A very fair point by the Newly Bearded One.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
Early levels is always interesting. Is the argument that rec players like these levels and they can see some flops and feel like they are playing some cards. Often in MTTs they are pretty much a waste of time although if it improves the recreational players experience then that is a good thing and players have the LR option anyway.
How do you find this effects things from a DYM perspective? As an outside observer, it seems harder to kill players off in PLO8 which would be a bad thing for us.
I think this is a key point regarding peceived 'swingyness'.
Very often in oh8 DYMs we end up on a bubble with huge blinds and it can become a real lottery, obviously this can happen in NLH as well but our fold equity PF is stronger so it can allow a slightly differing strategy
@Jac35 and I have often discussed raise sizing in hilo, I do think it would be interesting to talk about, as it relates to the above point
"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
How do you find this effects things from a DYM perspective? As an outside observer, it seems harder to kill players off in PLO8 which would be a bad thing for us.
A very fair point by the Newly Bearded One.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
Early levels is always interesting. Is the argument that rec players like these levels and they can see some flops and feel like they are playing some cards. Often in MTTs they are pretty much a waste of time although if it improves the recreational players experience then that is a good thing and players have the LR option anyway.
Yes, again, that's a fair point.
It's just so much more fun when there's a "buzz" knowing that with the blinds big, each hand played is crucial, & is generally busto or double.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
We can extend the equation slightly further, I resumed playing on 30th November after my health sabbatical, since when my balance has decreased £59.12.
Not good, then.
For balance, I've not deposited or withdrawn in 5 years, & I've increased my original £200 20 fold. Over half of that came from Rewards Money & Promos though.
Your game is still good. I even fold to your re-raises occasionally.
I well remember that Mr E - think it was 2009? You later admitted it was a misclick though.
I still chuckle at that chap who suggested you & I collude, as we share a similar field address. I'd bet good money that you & I bust each other more times than any other 2 players in the PLO8 DYM pool, simply because of our aggressive style with the right (or wrong....) hands.
Comments
*Sorry, had to get at least one apostrophe in here somewhere
Can I assume you meant exclamation mark?
In truth, when properly used (= sparingly & singly), I'm fine with them.
It's when they are used in multiples I get a little cross, it's such poor use of our wonderful written language.
Sky Poker, of course, are big fans of exclamation marks.
When we play on Sky Poker, the Push Messages scroll through the Chatbox, like so;
"The £110 entry £15,000 Guaranteed Sunday major is about to start - register now!"
Moments later this follows;
"The £1 entry £12 Guaranteed deepstack is about to start - register now!"
If it's correct for the £15,000 jobbie - & it possibly is - how can it also be the same for a £1 comp?
@Duesenberg
"Out of curiosity, I know very little about PLO other than that it's supposed to make the variance of NLH seem like a walk in the park by comparison. Is PLO8 an even higher variance game still, or is there no real difference between the two Omahas for 'swingyness'"
To my mind, a league table of "swingyness" of those three would be cut & dried.
Most swingy = PLO.
Middle Swingy = NLH
Least Swingy = PLO8
PLO is a fabulous, brutal, vicious game, when NLH players talk of "sickeners" they can't ever have played PLO.
NLH, well most know it has variance, but by a large, with so many 80-20 shots (pair over pair) it's far less swingy than PLO.
PLO8 is the least swingy, as so often we can get half back, so I'd say variance is the lowest of the 3. Depends how you look at it though - in PLO8 we can have quads, or a Royal Flush, & only get half the pot. Think a lot of players might just be pretty cross to chop the pot when they hold a Royal & villain holds 7-8 for the nut worst low. Or looked at upside down, with the nut worst low of 7-8 we can chop the pot with a Royal Flush.
I'm clearly not a morning person.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
I think this is a key point regarding peceived 'swingyness'.
Very often in oh8 DYMs we end up on a bubble with huge blinds and it can become a real lottery, obviously this can happen in NLH as well but our fold equity PF is stronger so it can allow a slightly differing strategy
@Jac35 and I have often discussed raise sizing in hilo, I do think it would be interesting to talk about, as it relates to the above point
It's just so much more fun when there's a "buzz" knowing that with the blinds big, each hand played is crucial, & is generally busto or double.
Yes, MUCH harder to bust players. In a PLO8 DYM, a player can call with, literally, any 4, & still be as good as 40-60 to get half, or even 30-70 to scoop. And many do. We have a lot of players who just call every hand, every bet, as we can never be THAT far behind in PLO8.
Which is why PLO8 DYM's take longer to conclude than a typical NLH or PLO. It's not unusual to see blinds go to 300-600, 400-800 or even 500-1,000 in O8, whereas they rarely get past 200-400 in NLH.
Incidentally, if I were King For A Day, I'd cut out the early levels in DYM's, & start at 25-50 or 50-100. 4 tables at 10-20 or 15-30 hardly sets the pulses racing.
Does he look like this?
Painful January results incoming. This is gonna hurt, as they say.....
Based upon my account balance at 31st December compared with 31st January;
January Profit = £24.68.
Which does not sound too dreadful, until you consider I've played 987 DYM's in that period.
So that's about 2.5 pence per game.
Hours spent playing? No idea, but I'd guess at around 120, so I'm earning a whopping 2p per hour. Yay. Ish.
It's even worse than that though, as in the period I received around £110 in Rewards Money & Pentagon, without which I'd be looking at a £85 loss.
Think we can safely say I've gone at the game.
Having said all that, I still absolutely love the game. Effectively, I play for free, and I thoroughly enjoy it & can't wait to play every day.
We can extend the equation slightly further, I resumed playing on 30th November after my health sabbatical, since when my balance has decreased £59.12.
Not good, then.
For balance, I've not deposited or withdrawn in 5 years, & I've increased my original £200 20 fold. Over half of that came from Rewards Money & Promos though.
It's hope that keeps us going though.
It might be adverse variance
I've been unlucky
I'm shite, but I might improve.
Etc.
February will be better. Possibly.
I've been trying the NLH DYM's again, too.
I did that a year ago, & fair to say it never worked out too well.
It's been better - a lot better this time though. Or, more correctly, less worse.
Most sessions I seem to draw, or win or lose by the odd game, so the rake kills me.
I throw in the odd outlier though - on Tuesday, I managed a 5 game session of NLH & lost all 5. I'm the worst.
On Wednesday, I managed a 10 game session & won 9 of them. I'm the GOAT.
What a great game poker is, & how wonderfully it messes with our heads.
On we go.
I even fold to your re-raises occasionally.
I still chuckle at that chap who suggested you & I collude, as we share a similar field address. I'd bet good money that you & I bust each other more times than any other 2 players in the PLO8 DYM pool, simply because of our aggressive style with the right (or wrong....) hands.
Guess he failed to notice I had not played ANY hand against anyone in 3 levels. Which is perfectly normal for me. Sometimes you just gotta sit & wait.