In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : I don't know how to word this tikay if he had raised against any other at the table would they have snap folded they both seem like playable hands and he might of thought he had a chance to bust you both off you being short and did not want to scare you off Posted by weecheez1
Hi Mr cheez
If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon.
At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand.
If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand.
The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi Mr cheez If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon. At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand. If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand. The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier. Posted by stuarty117
Thanks stuarty these things will come to me eventually I think it's more like a chess game playing dyms enjoying them a lot
A quick tip here, it really applies to any DYM, but this was in a PLO8 affair last night. I'm not saying I am correct, this is just my view, but I saw a play last night which struck me as terrible. 4 of us left, 2 have around 3,500, the other 2 - including Villain & myself - have about 2,500 each. This is the part of a DYM that really matters, & where we need to avoid mistakes. The 2 big stacks are in the Blinds, now Villain, playing 2,500 (same as me) LIMPS. Limps at 200-400, what? That can NEVER be good. He can be trapping here with the Aces, but even they are not huge jollies, so I don't think that is good play. Anyway, he limps, & I have..... A-2-4-J, with a nut suit in hearts. So I pot it, & I'm pot stuck now, whatever he does. He now FLATS. It comes a nice flop, 2 of my nut suit & 2 low. He checks. I put the rest in, & he calls in a heartbeat. He has A-K-2-3. I hit my flush, & no more low cards come, so I (luckily) bust him. I think his play here is absolutely terrible. He should pot it pre flop & post flop, every time. As I'm a little on the tight side, & prefer to open with worse if need be, rather than face a confrontation, if he pots it pre, before it gets to me, I snap fold. So he lost a DYM he really should not have. Posted by Tikay10
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi Mr cheez If you have 2500 chips and limp 400 you are limping 1/6 of your stack plus the blinds will be coming round soon. At this stage of a dym you are looking to collect the 600 chips or go one on one to cash if we have a decent hand. If the guy had of raised tikay may have folded and waited for a better spot. He collects 600 chips and moves onto next hand. The worst thing especially in Holdem in late stages of a dym is to limp with AA or KK and then the Big blind flops 2 pair and we lose always raise makes the game so much easier. Posted by stuarty117
Good post Stu, & this is part of what I was trying to get across to Cheezy.
The limper with A-K-2-x had 2,500 chips @ 200-400 before the hand.
He limps UTG, I fold the Button, the SB makes up & the BB checks.
Flop comes 9-3-3.
SB pots it.
What does Mr Limpy Limp do now? He HAS to fold.
So he has set fire to 400 of his 2,500, & now has to go through the blinds (another 600) where he will be OOP, & susceptible to a bet in front of him. So he is now down to 1,500, & in shove mode - so he MUST find a hand before the next set of blinds now.
Suddenly, he's in big trouble. And for sure, he'll be thinking (if he has any sense) "if ONLY I had potted it when I had that A-K-2-x hand".
Not only does he lkely win that hand uncontested (nobody LIKES calling & they need a serious hand to do so) but more importantly, he has PAID THE RENT for another orbit. And that's gives him another orbit to a) find a hand & b) let the players potentially bust. At 200-400, every orbit is a bonus, as eventually, someone is gonna bust.
2,500 @ 200-400 4 handed in an unopened pot, A-K-2-x is ALWAYS a bet. Always. This hand is almost the PLO8 equivalent of Aces in NLH.
If we were deep in a NLH MTT or SNG, would we ever limp with AK? Course not.
There is a fundamental of poker at work here.
Give ourselves TWO ways to win this hand. They all fold, or they call & we win.
By CALLING, we only give ourselves one way to win the hand. This is a fundamental of poker.
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Good post Stu, & this is part of what I was trying to get across to Cheezy. The limper with A-K-2-x had 2,500 chips @ 200-400 before the hand. He limps UTG, I fold the Button, the SB makes up & the BB checks. Flop comes 9-3-3. SB pots it. What does Mr Limpy Limp do now? He HAS to fold. So he has set fire to 400 of his 2,500, & now has to go through the blinds (another 600) where he will be OOP, & susceptible to a bet in front of him. So he is now down to 1,500, & in shove mode - so he MUST find a hand before the next set of blinds now. Suddenly, he's in big trouble. And for sure, he'll be thinking (if he has any sense) "if ONLY I had potted it when I had that A-K-2-x hand". Not only does he lkely win that hand uncontested (nobody LIKES calling & they need a serious hand to do so) but more importantly, he has PAID THE RENT for another orbit. And that's gives him another orbit to a) find a hand & b) let the players potentially bust. At 200-400, every orbit is a bonus, as eventually, someone is gonna bust. 2,500 @ 200-400 4 handed in an unopened pot, A-K-2-x is ALWAYS a bet. Always. This hand is almost the PLO8 equivalent of Aces in NLH. If we were deep in a NLH MTT or SNG, would we ever limp with AK? Course not. There is a fundamental of poker at work here. Give ourselves TWO ways to win this hand. They all fold, or they call & we win. By CALLING, we only give ourselves one way to win the hand. This is a fundamental of poker. Posted by Tikay10
Point taken sir be aggressive or get off the potty
Hi boys I am looking for yet more advice I want to set myself some targets in the new year I tend to jump on whatever table is available when playing I would like to be a bit more structured any ideas I play most of the games bh deepstacks and PLO8 when they are on
Hi boys I am looking for yet more advice I want to set myself some targets in the new year I tend to jump on whatever table is available when playing I would like to be a bit more structured any ideas I play most of the games bh deepstacks and PLO8 when they are on Posted by weecheez1
Hi mate, it depends what targets you want to achieve.
Are you playing for fun and willing to gamble and lose a certain amount each month?
Do you want to build a bankroll to enable you to hopefully move up the stakes?
Do you want to play small stakes and hopefully be proficient enough to make a small profit?
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : Hi mate, it depends what targets you want to achieve. Are you playing for fun and willing to gamble and lose a certain amount each month? Do you want to build a bankroll to enable you to hopefully move up the stakes? Do you want to play small stakes and hopefully be proficient enough to make a small profit? Posted by 67Bhoys
I would like it firstly to remain fun a profit would be fine but not at the expense of turning into a chore where all that's important is money I was thinking along the lines of the challenges that appear on the forum maybe ten of each tournament ie 2 20 bounty hunter ,ten deepstacks at 2 20 and ten PLO8 sit and goes the problem with the last one is most of the games are 3 00 and above
In Response to Re: PLO8 DYM's - Tips, Advice, & Help Thread : I would like it firstly to remain fun a profit would be fine but not at the expense of turning into a chore where all that's important is money I was thinking along the lines of the challenges that appear on the forum maybe ten of each tournament ie 2 20 bounty hunter ,ten deepstacks at 2 20 and ten PLO8 sit and goes the problem with the last one is most of the games are 3 00 and above Posted by weecheez1
As long as it's within your budget, and you can afford to have fun, then your fine with what you are suggesting. I saw a post by Lambet180 on another thread, where he states that only 10% of online players regularly make a profit, I could easily believe this might be the case.
Maybe keeping a diary on the pokerchat page might be an idea. Set out some reasonable targets you want to achieve, nothing too impossible. You will find that people will encourage you along, and also it will enable you to post your thoughts and get some feedback.
I would advise keeping records of all your games seperately, NH, BH, PLO8 Tournaments, PLO8 DYMs, etc. This will give you a good indication of where your strengths and weaknesses lie, enabling you to focus your game on your strong points and hopefully make a profit, and also indicating what areas of your game that you have to work on and improve.
On the PLO8 DYMs, I play microstakes and would suggest being patient. Start a SNG, it will fill eventually. I would also suggest you use my tennis strategy outlined a few pages back for each level you play. If you can regularly win tennis matches at the level you are playing on, then you can maybe step up and give the next level a shot.
thought on this hand please?PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancemisterbunSmall blind 15.0015.002120.00HENDRIK62Big blind 30.0045.001360.00 Your hole cardsJAA2 Macacgirl1Fold NOMADICUSCall 30.0075.002740.00 Call 30.00105.001905.00tikay1Fold misterbunCall 15.00120.002105.00HENDRIK62Raise 120.00240.001240.00NOMADICUSCall 120.00360.002620.00 Call 120.00480.001785.00misterbunFold Flop JK4 HENDRIK62Bet 360.00840.00880.00NOMADICUSFold Call 360.001200.001425.00Turn 7 HENDRIK62All-in 880.002080.000.00 All-in 1425.003505.000.00 Unmatched bet 545.002960.00545.00HENDRIK62ShowJAA2 ShowAQ34 River 4 Win highFlush to the King2960.00 3505.00 No qualifying low hand Clos
My opponent here is a very experienced DYM player, has a strong range and a good grasp of this particular format
It may be the hand would have played out the same regardless, but my question is this;
Given I have raised pre here he can put me on a balanced hi lo hand and likely aces.
He obvioulsy flops a flush draw (albeit I hold the nut blocker)
If I raise smaller on the flop (say 250), when he misses on the turn, his odds are slashed, and his low draw is very weak. If I then pot bet can he really carry on with a single pair and non nutted draw.
With some players I wouldn't even question it as they will go with the thinnest possible, but with this player I think if I play it differently I may have some fold equity?
Thanks for looking, I agree with your summary, I know a big leak for me when running poorly (this was in the middle of an extended downswing) is getting too attached to pretty hands and getting involved too much in early levels.
As I say I was just wondering aloud if, by playing this differently I don't commit myself or the opponent on the flop (I have pretty much done that above with my bet sizing), then perhaps on the turn I can bomb it and get a fold.
You got a call, not a reraise pre-flop, that usually means you're looking at A2/3/4/5/6/7 type combo hands.
That's usually of course, some people call with any 4.
The flop comes two high cards, you're ahead usually, instant pot it.
Without flush draw or a set he's folding
He calls, he's telling you he has a draw or set.
Turn comes low, he hasn't hit his flush, no straight, pot it, try to get him off a draw. You'll probably find out here if he has a set. With a set, he should get emin anyway, UL. Timing eh?
He gets em' in, you're behind or he's on a draw.
He then hits his flush on the river. Nevermind. Give up. Take up knitting.
If not all-in pre river....Against some players I'll rep the nut flush, or a FH after the river, against others I'll give up. Usually pot commited here anyways.
Obv all the above, a bit different due to stack sizes etc, chips all-in on the turn, but you get the drift. Personally I think you did the right thing. He got em in with non nut draws. Happy Days.
Against some people I'd play it very differently, but against the majority, like that.
And the award for the longest unintentional blank space, goes to....
I have already attempted twice to post my own thoughts at the time and since but lost them when I was frozen out by a sky poker pop-up. General problem with Firefox or just me?
Interested in thoughts. Brief summary of mine...
1. Pre - Maybe just 400 instead of committing 700? Does the job of folding out rubbish, happy to fold it to a repot and not a bad hand to play in position post flop.
2. Flop - Hate the board - opponent could be on a low only trying to steal pot as they are more likely to have the 7. Is a call OK or would anyone fold or re-pot?
3. Turn - Hate the Qd as flushes have now hit too, and the all-in even more. Could definitely be a bluff as I have shown post flop weakness but is that enough to make the call when only a Q or a 2 are needed to help me.
Comments
The limper with A-K-2-x had 2,500 chips @ 200-400 before the hand.
He limps UTG, I fold the Button, the SB makes up & the BB checks.
Flop comes 9-3-3.
SB pots it.
What does Mr Limpy Limp do now? He HAS to fold.
So he has set fire to 400 of his 2,500, & now has to go through the blinds (another 600) where he will be OOP, & susceptible to a bet in front of him. So he is now down to 1,500, & in shove mode - so he MUST find a hand before the next set of blinds now.
Suddenly, he's in big trouble. And for sure, he'll be thinking (if he has any sense) "if ONLY I had potted it when I had that A-K-2-x hand".
Not only does he lkely win that hand uncontested (nobody LIKES calling & they need a serious hand to do so) but more importantly, he has PAID THE RENT for another orbit. And that's gives him another orbit to a) find a hand & b) let the players potentially bust. At 200-400, every orbit is a bonus, as eventually, someone is gonna bust.
2,500 @ 200-400 4 handed in an unopened pot, A-K-2-x is ALWAYS a bet. Always. This hand is almost the PLO8 equivalent of Aces in NLH.
If we were deep in a NLH MTT or SNG, would we ever limp with AK? Course not.
There is a fundamental of poker at work here.
Give ourselves TWO ways to win this hand. They all fold, or they call & we win.
By CALLING, we only give ourselves one way to win the hand. This is a fundamental of poker.
Hand History #995595301 (22:40 25/01/2016)
I have already attempted twice to post my own thoughts at the time and since but lost them when I was frozen out by a sky poker pop-up. General problem with Firefox or just me?
Interested in thoughts. Brief summary of mine...
1. Pre - Maybe just 400 instead of committing 700? Does the job of folding out rubbish, happy to fold it to a repot and not a bad hand to play in position post flop.
2. Flop - Hate the board - opponent could be on a low only trying to steal pot as they are more likely to have the 7. Is a call OK or would anyone fold or re-pot?
3. Turn - Hate the Qd as flushes have now hit too, and the all-in even more. Could definitely be a bluff as I have shown post flop weakness but is that enough to make the call when only a Q or a 2 are needed to help me.