Rather than have all the drama with parts of the HH posted...
I will just post the full hand history and hopefully you can all tell me the various ways I screwed this hand up.
Immediately after the hand I wasn't happy with how I played it. I did wonder if this was just being results orientated but no, it probably isn't. My overall assessment is that I screwed this hand up.
My thinking was this...
> It seemed a little too much equity to just jam the villain preflop without a solid read and we are not in great shape versus the villain's calling range.
> Faced with the 20k bet on the flop I thought I could float and still have fold equity on the villain versus the chips he had left behind.
> With the dry turn I elected to just shove as (a) I thought I still had fold equity (b) Some villains might think 'I must have it' (c) I thought a lot of his range could be shoved off (for example, pairs <JJ, draws & all missed aces.
Some key questions...
Should we just shove preflop?
As played...
Do you float flop?
If you do float flop, do you give up in turn or jam?
Just wondering, did you do something with the hand history output here? It's displaying very strangely. The big blind is apparently 2,401, and it shows the big blind on the showdown even though he's not in the hand on the flop. Just wondering if the viewer is doing something funky or if you edited the hand yourself.
Edit: Just realised the big blind dicrepancy is because the BB is forced all in. Ignore this.
I really like seeing other people talking through hands. I guess you can only learn by playing and then discussing different situations. As a total recreational player, I am torn between shoving pre, hoping to isolate and pick up some dead chips, and calling as you did. I think villain has enough behind to fold, if you shove and he judges you are not just trying to play big stack bully. I think that’s the aggressive and probably correct option. Personally I probably play it as you have , but having done so, am folding to his 20k continuation bet. Look forward to reading what proper players would advise. More of these please
I can get behind a shove or call pre. As played with the call I think it's a fairly straightforward fold on the flop. If we think in terms of our range here we have plenty of better hands - KQs, QTs, QJs, KQo, medium pairs and plenty of flush draws. Our small blind calling range should be pretty tight pre so we shouldn't be over folding here.
At deeper stack depths facing a smaller c-bet if you wanted to add hands in then AT hearts (with the overcard + bd flush draw) would make perfect sense.
Offsuit deuce turn is a brick as players shouldn't be opening 54s at this stack depth.
Remember that we have a capped range here whereas he has AA,KK,QQ & AQ. If it doesn't make sense to shove with our value hands here then we can't be shoving as a bluff.
Good to see you @markycash at the tables tonight and hopefully you appreciated the couple of buy-ins I donated your way. Bit concerned to see you at the spin up tables though so worried you might of had some sort of bang on the head whilst being taken in to the ambulance as the spin up are specially designed for degenerates or so @LmfaoAllin tells me
If it doesn't make sense to shove with our value hands here then we can't be shoving as a bluff.
Completely agree the river shove has to be balanced. I would be shoving a mix here from air to sets, draws etc.
Great to hear thoughts on this hand. Would be really good to hear more. A few players have discussed the hand at the tables and the consensus seems weighted towards shoving preflop.
I am still not entirely convinced. Where is the cut off in terms of stack sizes for shoving preflop? I was generally playing a more small ball style and the shove just seems a bit spewy. If the villain had around 60k then I am insta-shoving. The cut off for me is when he has 80k+ here with average stacks somewhere around 70k.
I still feel I messed this hand up but I am still unsure what would be optimal here.
I've been trialing the spin ups last few days and generally enjoying them. Starting off 0 for 7 in all ins last night wasn't great but managed to finish slightly up in them.
Hope you get some 'run better'at the tables. No doubt I will donate a few back tonight
PS - how's the recovery & rehab going? I'm seriously interested, having been down a very similar road.
I think I would get a B-
Until 3 weeks ago today I was happily munching whatever I wanted, smoking about 30 a day and having the odd binge drink. Not surprisingly I weighed around 18st 8lbs (I am about 6' 1" so should probably be around 13st).
Then we all know what happened. It would be very easy for people to say - and I have kind of said it to myself - 'told you so' or 'you had it coming' but I still feel I was a touch unfortunate for this to happen at 44 years old.
I knew my lifestyle wasn't healthy but it was something I was 'going to tackle eventually'. I had just prioritised other areas of life first such as, education, jobs, housing and family.
On the smoking front I am under 10 a day and plan to stop altogether by the end of the month.
On the eating side of things I have already completely transformed things. In just under 3 weeks I have now lost just over 2 stone and this morning weighed 16st 7lbs. I would say half of that is down to ill health and half of it down to the dietary changes.
Friday is 'treat day' and I allow myself 1 treat. Last Friday I had a cheeseburger, it was good! This Friday I have elected for a wholewheat roll with grilled chicken breast and a fat free yogurt. My psychology seems to have changed around food and I don't want to undo the good work.
With regards to exercise...
The whole rehab program I would normally be enrolled in is cancelled due to Covid so I am largely on my own. There are a lot of workout videos on the British Heart Foundation website but I have instead elected to do a lot more walking.
It was 3 weeks ago this evening that the unfortunate happened. After that I couldn't get out of bed for a day and a half and even after 4-5 days it took me all my time to walk 20-30 steps to the toilet.
I am now walking up and down the hill below which is just outside my house every day with the dogs. Not sure if the pictures will capture the incline.
View up hill from around halfway...
And the view down from around halfway...
That seems pretty good progress to me in under 3 weeks?
On a side note. I think I gave my neighbours rather a big fright. My neighbour across the road bought one of the old red telephone boxes around 9 months ago. He intended to fit it out with a defibrillator but had got sidetracked and hadn't got around to it.
It is now kitted out...
Can see it from my couch, although hopefully I - and they - won't need it!
Would be great to hear tips on all things to do with diet, exercise, quitting smoking and keeping a positive mindset. If any of you are facing similar challenges - I know some are - then maybe we could 'gee each other on' a bit
What you have just been through has certainly given me some food for thought. Our height and weight are very similar, I'm a touch taller and nearly tipping the scales at 19st. I swapped smoking for vaping 2 years ago but my diet and exercise regime is appalling. Like yourself, I've never really been too concerned as I'm only 39 with an "I'll do something about it tomorrow" attitude. But to hear about you going through that terrible ordeal at only 44 shows that if your lifestyle isn't particularly healthy then you're at risk even at a young(ish) age.
Time to do something about it!
Its great to see that you are on the mend though and wishing you a speedy recovery. All the best.
It sounds like you’re doing well Mark. I think better than B -
We’re the same age and i’m similar to how you were with lifestyle. I smoke a little less than you did but I really should putting off trying to stop properly
It sounds like you’re doing well Mark. I think better than B -
We’re the same age and i’m similar to how you were with lifestyle. I smoke a little less than you did but I really should putting off trying to stop properly
Make walking more enjoyable Golf?
You are joking right?
BTW, you really want to stop smoking. I won't go on and it certainly isn't easy, being too lazy to go to the shops for **** when I wasn't allowed to drive helped me
@Jac35 I actually mentioned this to a mate yesterday. I have played a bit in the past. 18 holes is probably a bit much just now but there is a little 9 hole golf course not too far away that I might visit. I will give the walking about another week and then might give it a try.
@HENDRIK62 Agreed. I might bite the bullet in the next day or 2. It has to be done and is now my only truly unhealthy vice. I do like a ciggy but then again being alive is a touch more important.
Hope you all have a good weekend both on and off the felt
Have you tried vaping Mark? Smoking is just so bad. Tbh I'm shocked you're still smoking 10 a day. You just got out of hospital man. You need to have a word with yourself.
@Jac35 I actually mentioned this to a mate yesterday. I have played a bit in the past. 18 holes is probably a bit much just now but there is a little 9 hole golf course not too far away that I might visit. I will give the walking about another week and then might give it a try.
@HENDRIK62 Agreed. I might bite the bullet in the next day or 2. It has to be done and is now my only truly unhealthy vice. I do like a ciggy but then again being alive is a touch more important.
Hope you all have a good weekend both on and off the felt
And that, in a nutshell, is it.
As well as being a stupidly expensive way of killing yourself.
Have a great weekend Mark, enjoy spending your PLO8 MTT winnings, but maybe not on ciggies eh?
Good to see you back at the tables Mark, and nice to see the work on health side paying off, dump the smoking please, not easy but well worth it ( think of the bigger poker bankroll ) . Take care, GL .
Great to hear that the recovery is going well, Mark, and that you're doing the right things. Hope your plan to stop smoking by the end of month works out - that will make a huge difference!
Would be great to hear tips on all things to do with diet, exercise, quitting smoking and keeping a positive mindset. If any of you are facing similar challenges - I know some are - then maybe we could 'gee each other on' a bit
Walking is good of course, if you can add in inclines and weight to a rucksack or something then even better.
Walking Lunges - Dumbbells, kettle bells and barbell will do. I use a barbell personally as I had bought it as part of a weight set years ago. Preference would be dumbbells however I work with what's there at the moment.
Walking lunges is a good combination exercise as you are working on balance, legs as well as the weight side. A favourite and an all-rounder type.
Positive mindset is a newer one......... I use a 10 minute mindfulness audio and even have got the wee one to listen to it when he is trying to sleep. It's all in the voice and getting the right tone etc is worth looking for.
I am also massive on cold showers
There are plenty of benefit to this and I believe it's scientifically proven as well as it can be. If you stay in for a minute or more you have cracked it and it becomes pretty nice after that.
The cold shower thing is one of those ones, it can 'hurt' as its so cold and for the best benefit IMHO going right under and getting it on the coldest setting is best.
The Ice-Man Wim Hof is a good listen here. 10 minute breathing exercise is a personal favourite for this.
Cold baths are good too. Mind over matter. As a precaution it's maybe doctor's advise on the cold stuff as I don't know much about your circumstances.
Thanks for the encouragement all. I really appreciate that so many people give a $%$%!
I am the type of person whom this works better on...
@ash07 "Hope your plan to stop smoking by the end of month works out - that will make a huge difference!"
As opposed to...
@kapowblamz "You need to have a word with yourself"
Honey to catch flys and all that (I am a stubborn so and so and nothing makes me more inclined to do something than someone telling me I can't do something).
As mentioned in previous posts I have never been so motivated to stop smoking. It is a little more challenging currently as I have also transformed my diet but I am not going to let that be an excuse and 100% will be a non smoker in the very near future (see below).
After reading a lot of advice on stopping smoking I have come up with the following plan...
Starting today I am going to smoke <5 for 3 days then < 3 for 3 days then 1 a day for 3 days.
The intention being that I will reduce my nicotine dependency which makes stopping altogether easier. I have also ditched the patch I was wearing for the same reason (to reduce the nicotine dependency).
So I will stop completely on Monday 27th July.
Also going to play 9 holes of golf at the start of the week. If the body is up to it I will make this a very regular thing. I was very active before all of this which I think has helped the recovery so far.
Regarding vaping...
I've tried it and it just wasn't for me personally. Something in the chemicals really irritates my throat and ideally I wan't to get off the nicotine too.
@Cammykaze "Walking is good of course, if you can add in inclines and weight to a rucksack or something then even better." - Golf it is then Some great tips, thank you!
I am meant to avoid the cold - or overly warm - showers for now though.
I will post completely honest updates on the progress
In fact, I know @StayOrGo raises a lot of money for good causes. If Graham is still fund raising? I will pledge £40 to the cause if I touch a single cigarette in August. If he is not I will donate it to another charity and post a picture of the receipt on here.
I am going to do this!
Thanks again all. Really do appreciate all of the support and advice!
Comments
Rather than have all the drama with parts of the HH posted...
I will just post the full hand history and hopefully you can all tell me the various ways I screwed this hand up.
Immediately after the hand I wasn't happy with how I played it. I did wonder if this was just being results orientated but no, it probably isn't. My overall assessment is that I screwed this hand up.
My thinking was this...
> It seemed a little too much equity to just jam the villain preflop without a solid read and we are not in great shape versus the villain's calling range.
> Faced with the 20k bet on the flop I thought I could float and still have fold equity on the villain versus the chips he had left behind.
> With the dry turn I elected to just shove as (a) I thought I still had fold equity (b) Some villains might think 'I must have it' (c) I thought a lot of his range could be shoved off (for example, pairs <JJ, draws & all missed aces.
Some key questions...
Should we just shove preflop?
As played...
Do you float flop?
If you do float flop, do you give up in turn or jam?
Edit: Just realised the big blind dicrepancy is because the BB is forced all in. Ignore this.
As a total recreational player, I am torn between shoving pre, hoping to isolate and pick up some dead chips, and calling as you did. I think villain has enough behind to fold, if you shove and he judges you are not just trying to play big stack bully. I think that’s the aggressive and probably correct option. Personally I probably play it as you have , but having done so, am folding to his 20k continuation bet.
Look forward to reading what proper players would advise.
More of these please
At deeper stack depths facing a smaller c-bet if you wanted to add hands in then AT hearts (with the overcard + bd flush draw) would make perfect sense.
Offsuit deuce turn is a brick as players shouldn't be opening 54s at this stack depth.
Remember that we have a capped range here whereas he has AA,KK,QQ & AQ. If it doesn't make sense to shove with our value hands here then we can't be shoving as a bluff.
Great to hear thoughts on this hand. Would be really good to hear more. A few players have discussed the hand at the tables and the consensus seems weighted towards shoving preflop.
I am still not entirely convinced. Where is the cut off in terms of stack sizes for shoving preflop? I was generally playing a more small ball style and the shove just seems a bit spewy. If the villain had around 60k then I am insta-shoving. The cut off for me is when he has 80k+ here with average stacks somewhere around 70k.
I still feel I messed this hand up but I am still unsure what would be optimal here.
@GREGSTER All donations welcome
I've been trialing the spin ups last few days and generally enjoying them. Starting off 0 for 7 in all ins last night wasn't great but managed to finish slightly up in them.
Hope you get some 'run better'at the tables. No doubt I will donate a few back tonight
The flop definitely is a fold at face value. I just decided to float and get all spewy...
Until 3 weeks ago today I was happily munching whatever I wanted, smoking about 30 a day and having the odd binge drink. Not surprisingly I weighed around 18st 8lbs (I am about 6' 1" so should probably be around 13st).
Then we all know what happened. It would be very easy for people to say - and I have kind of said it to myself - 'told you so' or 'you had it coming' but I still feel I was a touch unfortunate for this to happen at 44 years old.
I knew my lifestyle wasn't healthy but it was something I was 'going to tackle eventually'. I had just prioritised other areas of life first such as, education, jobs, housing and family.
On the smoking front I am under 10 a day and plan to stop altogether by the end of the month.
On the eating side of things I have already completely transformed things. In just under 3 weeks I have now lost just over 2 stone and this morning weighed 16st 7lbs. I would say half of that is down to ill health and half of it down to the dietary changes.
Friday is 'treat day' and I allow myself 1 treat. Last Friday I had a cheeseburger, it was good! This Friday I have elected for a wholewheat roll with grilled chicken breast and a fat free yogurt. My psychology seems to have changed around food and I don't want to undo the good work.
With regards to exercise...
The whole rehab program I would normally be enrolled in is cancelled due to Covid so I am largely on my own. There are a lot of workout videos on the British Heart Foundation website but I have instead elected to do a lot more walking.
It was 3 weeks ago this evening that the unfortunate happened. After that I couldn't get out of bed for a day and a half and even after 4-5 days it took me all my time to walk 20-30 steps to the toilet.
I am now walking up and down the hill below which is just outside my house every day with the dogs. Not sure if the pictures will capture the incline.
View up hill from around halfway...
And the view down from around halfway...
That seems pretty good progress to me in under 3 weeks?
On a side note. I think I gave my neighbours rather a big fright. My neighbour across the road bought one of the old red telephone boxes around 9 months ago. He intended to fit it out with a defibrillator but had got sidetracked and hadn't got around to it.
It is now kitted out...
Can see it from my couch, although hopefully I - and they - won't need it!
Would be great to hear tips on all things to do with diet, exercise, quitting smoking and keeping a positive mindset. If any of you are facing similar challenges - I know some are - then maybe we could 'gee each other on' a bit
Time to do something about it!
Its great to see that you are on the mend though and wishing you a speedy recovery. All the best.
Looks like you are doing all the right things, keep up the good work!
Wishing you much good heath and happiness going forward.
Take care.
We’re the same age and i’m similar to how you were with lifestyle. I smoke a little less than you did but I really should putting off trying to stop properly
Make walking more enjoyable
Golf?
BTW, you really want to stop smoking.
I won't go on and it certainly isn't easy, being too lazy to go to the shops for **** when I wasn't allowed to drive helped me
Cheers @StayOrGo the same to yourself Graham!
@Jac35 I actually mentioned this to a mate yesterday. I have played a bit in the past. 18 holes is probably a bit much just now but there is a little 9 hole golf course not too far away that I might visit. I will give the walking about another week and then might give it a try.
@HENDRIK62 Agreed. I might bite the bullet in the next day or 2. It has to be done and is now my only truly unhealthy vice. I do like a ciggy but then again being alive is a touch more important.
Hope you all have a good weekend both on and off the felt
As well as being a stupidly expensive way of killing yourself.
Have a great weekend Mark, enjoy spending your PLO8 MTT winnings, but maybe not on ciggies eh?
All the best!
Walking is good of course, if you can add in inclines and weight to a rucksack or something then even better.
Walking Lunges - Dumbbells, kettle bells and barbell will do. I use a barbell personally as I had bought it as part of a weight set years ago. Preference would be dumbbells however I work with what's there at the moment.
Walking lunges is a good combination exercise as you are working on balance, legs as well as the weight side. A favourite and an all-rounder type.
Positive mindset is a newer one.........
I am also massive on cold showers
There are plenty of benefit to this and I believe it's scientifically proven as well as it can be. If you stay in for a minute or more you have cracked it and it becomes pretty nice after that.
The cold shower thing is one of those ones, it can 'hurt' as its so cold and for the best benefit IMHO going right under and getting it on the coldest setting is best.
The Ice-Man Wim Hof is a good listen here. 10 minute breathing exercise is a personal favourite for this.
Cold baths are good too. Mind over matter. As a precaution it's maybe doctor's advise on the cold stuff as I don't know much about your circumstances.
I am the type of person whom this works better on...
@ash07 "Hope your plan to stop smoking by the end of month works out - that will make a huge difference!"
As opposed to...
@kapowblamz "You need to have a word with yourself"
Honey to catch flys and all that (I am a stubborn so and so and nothing makes me more inclined to do something than someone telling me I can't do something).
As mentioned in previous posts I have never been so motivated to stop smoking. It is a little more challenging currently as I have also transformed my diet but I am not going to let that be an excuse and 100% will be a non smoker in the very near future (see below).
After reading a lot of advice on stopping smoking I have come up with the following plan...
Starting today I am going to smoke <5 for 3 days then < 3 for 3 days then 1 a day for 3 days.
The intention being that I will reduce my nicotine dependency which makes stopping altogether easier. I have also ditched the patch I was wearing for the same reason (to reduce the nicotine dependency).
So I will stop completely on Monday 27th July.
Also going to play 9 holes of golf at the start of the week. If the body is up to it I will make this a very regular thing. I was very active before all of this which I think has helped the recovery so far.
Regarding vaping...
I've tried it and it just wasn't for me personally. Something in the chemicals really irritates my throat and ideally I wan't to get off the nicotine too.
@Cammykaze "Walking is good of course, if you can add in inclines and weight to a rucksack or something then even better." - Golf it is then
I am meant to avoid the cold - or overly warm - showers for now though.
I will post completely honest updates on the progress
In fact, I know @StayOrGo raises a lot of money for good causes. If Graham is still fund raising? I will pledge £40 to the cause if I touch a single cigarette in August. If he is not I will donate it to another charity and post a picture of the receipt on here.
I am going to do this!
Thanks again all. Really do appreciate all of the support and advice!