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Brexit

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    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited February 2019
    HAYSIE said:

    This is like Statler and waldorf , with the exception of me still having my marbles all there , being female and not liking or agreeing with the other one :D

    So its not an independent article, quoting a professor?
    Obviously once again , ( sighs ) , you seem incapable of quoting the correct response .
    But anyway , in answer , obviously it's not if that person has a clear agenda and cant back up the claims with evidence . What do you not understand about that concept ?

    Just on the off chance ...are you looking at a different article to the one you've linked ? ( trying my best to help you here )
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    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47152035

    Brexit: May says she can get deal through with binding changes


    Theresa May has promised EU leaders she can get the Brexit deal through Parliament if they give her legally-binding changes to it.

    The UK prime minister - who also vowed to deliver Brexit "on time" - was speaking after a series of meetings with top EU officials in Brussels.

    European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker again ruled out the kind of changes Mrs May wants to see.

    But the two sides agreed to further talks to break the deadlock.

    Mrs May said she had also spoken to European Council President Donald Tusk about his comments on Wednesday about there being a "special place in ****" for those who campaigned for Brexit without a plan to deliver it safely.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47152035

    Brexit: May says she can get deal through with binding changes


    Theresa May has promised EU leaders she can get the Brexit deal through Parliament if they give her legally-binding changes to it.

    The UK prime minister - who also vowed to deliver Brexit "on time" - was speaking after a series of meetings with top EU officials in Brussels.

    European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker again ruled out the kind of changes Mrs May wants to see.

    But the two sides agreed to further talks to break the deadlock.

    Mrs May said she had also spoken to European Council President Donald Tusk about his comments on Wednesday about there being a "special place in ****" for those who campaigned for Brexit without a plan to deliver it safely.
    </bloc

    As I posted earlier.

    This is Theresa May saying she is looking for changes to, not the removal of the Backstop.

    Theresa May says she wants changes to backstop, not removal

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9wqQQsFagw

    This is the EU saying Backstop discussions are closed.

    Juncker: backstop discussion is closed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxPb_kXvHhk


    This is Mark Francois deputy chairman of the ERG, posted yesterday, saying nothing less than the replacement of the backstop will be acceptable.


    Mark Francois on Brexit and backstop


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbxjYoTiReo


    This the Irish Government, not backing down on the Backstop.

    Ireland will not back down on Brexit backstop, says deputy PM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oQJkehfleY

    This is the DUP saying that the Backstop has to go.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rJKb5fj47E


    It is clearly not getting through, as I posted earlier.

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347

    HAYSIE said:

    This is like Statler and waldorf , with the exception of me still having my marbles all there , being female and not liking or agreeing with the other one :D

    So its not an independent article, quoting a professor?
    Obviously once again , ( sighs ) , you seem incapable of quoting the correct response .
    But anyway , in answer , obviously it's not if that person has a clear agenda and cant back up the claims with evidence . What do you not understand about that concept ?

    Just on the off chance ...are you looking at a different article to the one you've linked ? ( trying my best to help you here )

    I don't even know what you are trying to say in the above post as it just seems like gibberish to me.

    My last word on this nonsense is below.

    I am bored with shopping.

    I posted an article earlier, which I am not particularly interested in saying simply that shopping has gone up since the referendum. It is a recent article, and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of it.

    To me this makes logical sense because the pound has fallen in value, and we import lots of food.

    I can believe the article, and there is a logical reason for it.

    You cant see that, and want to dispute it.

    I don't care. You are doubting the source when it was written by a journalist from the Independent, and was contributed to by Dennis Novy, who appears uneducated, and probably doesn't know what he is talking about.

    That was a poor attempt at humour in an effort to relieve my boredom.

    I rest my case, and have had enough of this.


    Dennis Novy | VOX, CEPR Policy Portal
    voxeu.org/users/dennisnovy
    Dennis was appointed to the UK Council of Economic Advisers by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 2018. He was the Specialist Adviser to the House of Lords on the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) in 2013/14. Dennis has been a recent visitor at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis and the University of California, Davis. He received a ..


    Dennis Novy - University of Warwick
    warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/dnovy
    Dennis Novy is an Associate Professor of Economics at the University of Warwick and a Research Fellow at the Centre for Economic Policy Research (CEPR). He is also an Associate at the Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) at the London School of Economics ..
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Four men with a ladder: the billboard campaigners battling Brexit






    A quote by Theresa May on a billboard in Highbury, north London.
    At 5.55am, Talgarth Road, one of the major arteries into west London, is just beginning to clog up with early rush-hour traffic. A man named Dave, his white van pulled over into a loading bay, is putting up a billboard poster by the side of the carriageway. The previous one was an advert for Calvin Klein featuring the model Lara Stone. Over the course of 20 minutes, Dave covers Stone up, expertly pasting rectangles of paper over her, using a ladder for the high ones, then sweeping over with his brush.
    The first rectangle, in the top left corner, contains a headshot of Jacob Rees-Mogg and the beginning of his Twitter handle. As Dave lines up edges, pastes and brushes, and Stone disappears, a quote emerges from Rees-Mogg. This one wasn’t a tweet; he said it in parliament. “We could have two referendums. As it happens, it might make more sense to have a second referendum after the renegotiation is completed.”


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/four-men-with-a-ladder-the-billboard-campaigners-battling-brexit/ar-BBTgWnT?ocid=spartandhp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Brexit uncertainty to drive UK economy to weakest since last recession, says Bank of England

    Brexit uncertainty will slash UK economic growth in 2019 to the weakest rate since the global financial crisis a decade ago even if the UK manages to secure an orderly departure from the European Union next month, according to the Bank of England’s latest forecasts.
    The central bank now expects growth in 2019 to come in at only 1.2 per cent, driven by slumping business investment as firms freeze spending due to the heightened risk of a no-deal outcome on 29 March. That forecast in the bank’s latest Inflation Report is down sharply from the 1.7 per cent growth it estimated in November and would be the feeblest performance since GDP plummeted by 1.4 per cent in 2009.
    It also sees a roughly one in four probability of a recession in the second half of 2019.




    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/brexit-uncertainty-drive-uk-economy-120100796.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Brexit deal may not be put to MPs until late in March, officials say



    The Brexit negotiations are being pushed to the brink by Theresa May and the EU, with any last-minute offer by Brussels on the Irish backstop expected to be put to MPs just days before the UK is due to leave.
    In strained talks on Thursday, during which Jean-Claude Juncker suggested that Jeremy Corbyn’s plan could help resolve the Brexit crisis, Theresa May and the European commission president agreed to hold the next face-to-face talks by the end of February




    That move cuts deep into the remaining time, piling pressure on the British parliament to then accept what emerges or face a no-deal scenario.
    It is understood that EU officials are looking at offering May a detailed plan of what a potential technological solution to the Irish border might look like, which could be included in the legally non-binding political declaration on the future trade deal.
    The blueprint would pinpoint the problem areas and commit to breaching the technical gaps where possible to offer an alternative to the customs union envisaged in the withdrawal agreement’s Irish backstop.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/brexit-deal-may-not-be-put-to-mps-until-late-in-march-officials-say/ar-BBThOqz?ocid=spartanntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit plan 'promising', Donald Tusk tells Theresa May


    The EU's Donald Tusk has told Theresa May that Jeremy Corbyn's Brexit plan offers a "promising way out" of the current Brexit stalemate, according to Sky sources.
    It comes after the Labour leader set out his five demands for backing the government in a letter to the prime minister, including establishing a customs union with the EU and alignment with the bloc's single market.
    Mrs May said she confronted Mr Tusk over his "special place in ****" jibe as she held "robust but constructive" talks with EU leaders in Brussels.
    The prime minister told the European Council president, who hit out at "those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan to carry it out safely", that his comments were "not helpful and caused widespread dismay" back home.



    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/not-helpful-theresa-may-confronts-donald-tusk-over-171000657.html
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Government willing to discuss Corbyn's terms but move sparks Labour anger

    The government has expressed willingness to discuss Labour’s terms for backing Theresa May’s EU withdrawal bill, but Jeremy Corbyn’s offer of support for a softer Brexit has prompted fury among some Labour backbenchers.





    Labour MPs who back a second referendum have reacted with dismay to Corbyn’s letter. Pat McFadden said his leader was giving MPs in leave constituencies permission to back May’s deal.

    Earlier, Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, suggested Labour had now abandoned its six tests on Brexit in favour of Corbyn’s five demands.


    Chuka Umunna
    ‏This is not Opposition, it is the facilitation of a deal which will make this country poorer.
    A strong, coherent Labour alternative to this shabby, Tory Brexit is absent - it has been since this Parliament began.
    Totally demoralising. /1


    Owen Smith Retweeted Jeremy Corbyn
    Weaker than our six tests. Ignores conference policy. Downgrades demand for change to the binding Withdrawal Agreement to non-binding Declaration. Trusts the Tories to legislate to protect workers. And rejected already by the Dep. PM as ‘wishful thinking’. Time for a #PeoplesVote




    Concerns were expressed, however, that Corbyn was being unrealistic in seeking “shared institutions” with the EU, wording that appears to suggest an equal role for the UK and the 27 member states. Senior EU officials also doubt the sincerity of Labour’s offer to the prime minister, fearing it is an attempt to weaken May’s hopes of getting a deal through parliament. One official said: “It is a shame that we have this perfect storm: a lousy government and an even lousier official opposition”.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/government-willing-to-discuss-corbyns-terms-but-move-sparks-labour-anger/ar-BBThoI9?ocid=spartandhp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    So Labour have moved from 6 tests to 5 conditions, and tried not to rule out another referendum, as an afterthought.
    A row is brewing.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    The Labour proposal is pretty close to a Norway plus deal, This has already gained some support in Parliament, and described as the softest of Brexits.
    Norway aren't members of the EU, so Brexiteers cant really argue that it means we are not leaving. Even though I am certain that they will.
    If this proposal was implemented, the Brexiteers will be pig sick that they didn't support The PM.
    The two things that they will be fuming over will be Freedom of Movement, and no trade deals.
    I think anyone that honestly compared this to our current deal, would struggle to justify not staying in.
    It would seem to be a small step from where we currently are on trade, yet we lose access to many important benefits, and for what?
    Now that Jeremy Corbyn has finally come out of the woodwork, he faces some of the problems that have plagued the Tories since the referendum.
    He is supposed to be the leader of a democratic party, with the largest membership of any political party in Europe, yet he continues to ignore the majority of his members, voters, and many of his MPs.

    There could be troubles ahead.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    No shopping posts today,
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    tomgooduntomgoodun Member Posts: 3,726
    HAYSIE said:

    No shopping posts today,

    My good lady and I have noticed a rise in our food shopping bill 😉,tried Aldi, Lidl,Morrison’s, now Ocado 🙁
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Our current position on Brexit is remarkable,

    The original Meaningful vote was scheduled for 11th December.

    It was evident long before this date, not only that the Government would lose, but that they would lose by a very wide margin.

    The vote was postponed for 5 weeks, and they lost by the widest margin ever.

    Graham Brady then proposed an amendment, which called for the backstop to be replaced with alternative arrangements.

    This was a strange event because the Tories were whipped to vote against The PMs deal, indeed she voted against it herself.

    The amendment got a majority, fuelling hope that a deal could be reached.

    This hope was short lived.

    Another couple of weeks passed.

    The EU immediately made it clear that there would be no further negotiations.

    Both the DUP, and ERG, had been very clear that they would not vote for The Withdrawal Agreement, unless the Backstop was removed.

    Theresa May made it very clear when speaking in Ireland that the Backstop would not be removed. The EU have confirmed this many times.

    She now plans to meet the EU for more talks on 28th February.

    So we are no further forward, and will have wasted almost 3 months from the date scheduled for the original Meaningful Vote.

    We are told that there is a majority in Parliament that wont countenance no deal, yet they could have ruled this out by voting for the Cooper amendment, and failed to do so.

    We move ever closer to the cliff edge, and time is running out.

    The second attempt at the Meaningful Vote has been postponed.

    We need leadership, but where will it come from?
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    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    tomgoodun said:

    HAYSIE said:

    No shopping posts today,

    My good lady and I have noticed a rise in our food shopping bill 😉,tried Aldi, Lidl,Morrison’s, now Ocado 🙁
    Ocados prices are on fire at the moment :D
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    tomgoodun said:

    HAYSIE said:

    No shopping posts today,

    My good lady and I have noticed a rise in our food shopping bill 😉,tried Aldi, Lidl,Morrison’s, now Ocado 🙁
    I am sure many people have.

    Its probably only those looking for an argument that claim they haven't.

    As the pound has fallen 12% against the euro, and we import much of our food from Europe, it would be a miracle if prices hadn't risen.

    That it for shopping today as far as I am concerned.


    https://fullfact.org/economy/pound-fallen-since-brexit/

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347

    tomgoodun said:

    HAYSIE said:

    No shopping posts today,

    My good lady and I have noticed a rise in our food shopping bill 😉,tried Aldi, Lidl,Morrison’s, now Ocado 🙁
    Ocados prices are on fire at the moment :D
    You should start a shopping thread.
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347
    Anti-Brexit MP Owen Smith 'considering' quitting Labour

    A leading anti-Brexit Labour MP has said he and a "lot of people" are considering leaving the party.
    Asked if he intended to quit, Pontypridd MP Owen Smith told the BBC: "I think that's a very good question, and I think it's something that I and a lot of other people are considering".
    He and other Labour politicians have criticised Jeremy Corbyn for setting out terms for supporting a Brexit deal.
    Mr Smith made a failed bid to topple Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader in 2016.
    Mr Corbyn made him shadow Northern Ireland secretary but sacked him from that role in March last year after Mr Smith called for Labour to back another EU referendum.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47157567


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    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    Anti-Brexit MP Owen Smith 'considering' quitting Labour

    A leading anti-Brexit Labour MP has said he and a "lot of people" are considering leaving the party.
    Asked if he intended to quit, Pontypridd MP Owen Smith told the BBC: "I think that's a very good question, and I think it's something that I and a lot of other people are considering".
    He and other Labour politicians have criticised Jeremy Corbyn for setting out terms for supporting a Brexit deal.
    Mr Smith made a failed bid to topple Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader in 2016.
    Mr Corbyn made him shadow Northern Ireland secretary but sacked him from that role in March last year after Mr Smith called for Labour to back another EU referendum.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47157567


    No great loss to the party if he does ..... remember Corbyn completely owning him on question time 2016 :)

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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,347

    HAYSIE said:

    Anti-Brexit MP Owen Smith 'considering' quitting Labour

    A leading anti-Brexit Labour MP has said he and a "lot of people" are considering leaving the party.
    Asked if he intended to quit, Pontypridd MP Owen Smith told the BBC: "I think that's a very good question, and I think it's something that I and a lot of other people are considering".
    He and other Labour politicians have criticised Jeremy Corbyn for setting out terms for supporting a Brexit deal.
    Mr Smith made a failed bid to topple Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader in 2016.
    Mr Corbyn made him shadow Northern Ireland secretary but sacked him from that role in March last year after Mr Smith called for Labour to back another EU referendum.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-47157567


    No great loss to the party if he does ..... remember Corbyn completely owning him on question time 2016 :)

    I am not that keen on either of them, but Owen Smith does have a point.

    His views are supported by an overwhelming majority of their members, a majority of their voters, and maybe half their MPs.

    I think that Corbyn has been in hiding while we hurtle towards the Brexit cliff.

    Owen Smith was correct on Article 50, while Corbyn waffled, and lied.

    It is also strange that Corbyn said more in this debate about the Labour position on Brexit than he has said in the nearly 3 years that have followed.

    Corbyn retaining Free Movement?

    Corbyns constituency 70% in favour of remaining, yet he was absent in the campaign.

    Strange that anti-Semitism still rumbles on, and despite the Tory mess they cant get in front in the polls.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXFG14qdIZ4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGn6xCVWdmY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JuASxNuHXk



    I just watched the first half of the last one, and Corbyn got absolutely battered.
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