The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Are you really suggesting that Westminster Politicians LIE to the UK public! (& the EU ones don't)
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Are you really suggesting that Westminster Politicians LIE to the UK public! (& the EU ones don't)
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
How do you know what I am basing my opinion on? If that is your opinion of the thread, why do you get involved in it on such a regular basis? To assume that people aren't as clever as you is fairly arrogant. I have never denied that I support staying in the EU, and am against Brexit. I think that is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
HAYSIE said: Could you point to any EU lies on Brexit?
I did not specifically refer to brexit, just politicians in general and the EU.
Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years.
extract from one article,
"Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave"
"The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.
He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.
The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.
But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”. "
"They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
"Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.
Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said: “Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.
“Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.
“We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”"
"“One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.
“A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”"
Each week the panelists choose a topic for debate.
They research their arguments, and debate them amongst themselves.
This week one of the topics was Brexit, with particular reference to manufacturing.
Nissan in Sunderland came up, with reference to the X-Trail.
Many other reasons were put forward as excuses, such as diesel, a slowdown in China etc etc
You would think that if there were any doubts about being able to sell this vehicle they would just stop production of it.
Yet they haven't, they have moved production to Japan.
So the 740 jobs that were destined for Sunderland, will now be created in Japan.
The uncertainties surrounding our post Brexit trading relationship with the EU must have played a part.
They had agreed in 2016 to manufacture this model in Sunderland, so something has changed in their minds since then.
Nissan set up in the UK to access the EU market.
The fact that Japan have just done a deal with the EU, and it may prove to be easier to supply the EU from Japan than the UK, post Brexit, may be another consideration.
So this could be a first step tp moving their manufacturing elsewhere, depending on the Brexit outcome.
The arguments always seem to follow which side of the argument each panelist supports.
So on the remain side they say that Brexit played a part, where the Brexiteers will say it is down to diesel. If it was down to diesel why would they still manufacture it in Japan?
Why not put a petrol engine in it and still manufacture it in Sunderland?
During the debate Phil the ex army guy, pointed out that a mate of his that owned a drinks company, was looking forward to leaving so he could sell his drinks to the rest of the world.
We don't have to leave to enable him to do this. There are 164 countries that are members of the WTO that he is able to sell to now. How does leaving the EU benefit him in any way?
I really think that the amount of false information, and outright lies being told in the media by politicians, and self appointed experts, has increased since the referendum, and are predominantly from the leave side.
Brexiteers seem incapable of accepting that any bad news has actually been caused by Brexit.
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
For you to say that these are not the views of the average leave voter indicates that you are aware of the average leave voters views.
If you aren't how could you possibly say that these aren't?
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
How do you know what I am basing my opinion on? If that is your opinion of the thread, why do you get involved in it on such a regular basis? To assume that people aren't as clever as you is fairly arrogant. I have never denied that I support staying in the EU, and am against Brexit. I think that is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
Never said that ..thats your M.O ...as you full well well know and anyone else who reads your bs does . Capitalise your username ...ego boost ...look at me .
Haysie said: Could you point to any EU lies on Brexit?
I did not specifically refer to brexit, just politicians in general and the EU.
Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years.
extract from one article,
"Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave"
"The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.
He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.
The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.
But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”. "
"They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
"Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.
Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said: “Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.
“Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.
“We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”"
"“One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.
“A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”"
The document referred to is almost 50 years old, and merely one persons opinion.
The more recent comments are by one other person, who was an advisor to Nigel Farage.
A man who in my view cant lie straight in bed. If I was his advisor I would suggest he tells the truth a bit more.
The proof of the pudding for me is that during my whole life, I really cant think of anything that the EU are responsible for, that has affected my life in an adverse way.
They have been responsible for many things that have benefitted all of us.
During the Brexit negotiations they have behaved much better than our so called elected representatives.
Do you really think that you will benefit in any tangible way from taking back control, or more Sovereignty?
The EU have supplied around 7% of our Primary Legislation. That means to me, that we are pretty much in control.
Leaving will mean damage to our economy, which means jobs will be lost, and many people will be poorer.
I watched the documentary on tv the other night which is a 3 parter on how we ended up with Brexit, and the EU bent over backwards to help David Cameron, and gave him every thing he asked for, pre-referendum.
Just on immigration, which came up a lot in the referendum campaign. Under EU rules the UK has the right to send any EU citizen back to where they came from if they have no job 3 months after arriving. The fact that the Government never enforced this rule is their fault.
Taking back control of our borders, in a no deal scenario, means nothing gets checked. That is a UK Government plan, and hardly seems like taking back any control.
The absolute turmoil we are currently in, is clearly of our own making.
Leaving the EU may well turn out to be a massive disaster, and may lead to the break up of the UK
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
How do you know what I am basing my opinion on? If that is your opinion of the thread, why do you get involved in it on such a regular basis? To assume that people aren't as clever as you is fairly arrogant. I have never denied that I support staying in the EU, and am against Brexit. I think that is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
Never said that ..thats your M.O ...as you full well well know and anyone else who reads your bs does . Capitalise your username ...ego boost ...look at me .
If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
Thats your opinion based on media biased nonsense . I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
How do you know what I am basing my opinion on? If that is your opinion of the thread, why do you get involved in it on such a regular basis? To assume that people aren't as clever as you is fairly arrogant. I have never denied that I support staying in the EU, and am against Brexit. I think that is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
Never said that ..thats your M.O ...as you full well well know and anyone else who reads your bs does . Capitalise your username ...ego boost ...look at me .
If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
Haysie said: Could you point to any EU lies on Brexit?
I did not specifically refer to brexit, just politicians in general and the EU.
Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years.
extract from one article,
"Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave"
"The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.
He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.
The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.
But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”. "
"They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
"Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.
Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said: “Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.
“Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.
“We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”"
"“One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.
“A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”"
The document referred to is almost 50 years old, and merely one persons opinion.
The more recent comments are by one other person, who was an advisor to Nigel Farage.
A man who in my view cant lie straight in bed. If I was his advisor I would suggest he tells the truth a bit more.
The proof of the pudding for me is that during my whole life, I really cant think of anything that the EU are responsible for, that has affected my life in an adverse way.
They have been responsible for many things that have benefitted all of us.
During the Brexit negotiations they have behaved much better than our so called elected representatives.
Do you really think that you will benefit in any tangible way from taking back control, or more Sovereignty?
The EU have supplied around 7% of our Primary Legislation. That means to me, that we are pretty much in control.
Leaving will mean damage to our economy, which means jobs will be lost, and many people will be poorer.
I watched the documentary on tv the other night which is a 3 parter on how we ended up with Brexit, and the EU bent over backwards to help David Cameron, and gave him every thing he asked for, pre-referendum.
Just on immigration, which came up a lot in the referendum campaign. Under EU rules the UK has the right to send any EU citizen back to where they came from if they have no job 3 months after arriving. The fact that the Government never enforced this rule is their fault.
Taking back control of our borders, in a no deal scenario, means nothing gets checked. That is a UK Government plan, and hardly seems like taking back any control.
The absolute turmoil we are currently in, is clearly of our own making.
Leaving the EU may well turn out to be a massive disaster, and may lead to the break up of the UK
HAYSIE, You asked for evidence of the EU/Brexit lie(s), (Secret document FCO 30/1048). I provided you one viewpoint on a classified document (Top Secret) for nearly 50 years. Why do you think it was kept secret for so long? The document author correctly predicted the path the EU(EEC) was designed to take. The author also correctly predicted how difficult it would be to leave the EU after time.
UK politicians: "They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
HAYSIE, You asked for evidence of the EU/Brexit lie(s), (Secret document FCO 30/1048). I provided you one viewpoint on a classified document (Top Secret) for nearly 50 years. Why do you think it was kept secret for so long? The document author correctly predicted the path the EU(EEC) was designed to take. The author also correctly predicted how difficult it would be to leave the EU after time.
UK politicians: "They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
ps: I only posted the photo at the top of this page for some light-hearted review.
I don't know if it was kept secret.
Politicians today cant keep anything a secret and are forever leaking stuff.
I think that many politicians have correctly predicted the path of the EU.
Leaving the EU is very easy invoking Article 50 means you leave 2 years later.
What has proved difficult is disentangling us from a 45 year relationship while trying to cause as little damage as possible.
If the EU put their foot down we will leave in March. This will only not happen if we go cap in hand begging for an extension.
The politicians that were in place in 1971, when this document was produced, will mostly be dead, not preserving any impressions. It is not impossible to leave, you just need to give 2 years notice.
If your calling the shots, is Primary Legislation, then 93% comes from our Government. That means we are calling the shots.
Comments
Friday June 24th 2016 (was it all a dream?)
The next video showed similar views.
The problem is that the average leave voter seems to struggle to present a coherent argument on the tangible benefits of leaving.
I don't know of any.
One of the main reasons that David Cameron called the referendum was to take the wind out of UKIPS sails, and to be fair the referendum killed them off.
The views of the people on this video seem similar to UKIP supporters throughout the country.
The next tape was interesting as it showed the reality of "they are taking our jobs".
What I have found since the referendum is that the leave pitch is all lies, and the bus is a drop in the ocean compared to all the lies that they have told since.
What are the benefits of leaving?
You seem to think that these are not the views of the average leaver voter, so what are their views?
(& the EU ones don't)
I'm not a leave voter , so you will have to ask them ...problem is none of them want to come onto a poker forum and discuss it ...who would have thought !
As I have already stated , the whole thread is just your remain view , there isn't any opposition . It's not a debate . If people want to look at your biased media based articles and take them as being the complete story , then I feel sorry for them .
If that is your opinion of the thread, why do you get involved in it on such a regular basis?
To assume that people aren't as clever as you is fairly arrogant.
I have never denied that I support staying in the EU, and am against Brexit.
I think that is blatantly obvious to anyone reading this thread.
Could you point to any EU lies on Brexit?
I did not specifically refer to brexit, just politicians in general and the EU.
Secret document FCO 30/1048 kept truth about EU from British for 30 years.
extract from one article,
"Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.
But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.
The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave"
"The unknown author – a senior civil servant – correctly predicted the then European Economic Community (the EEC effectively became the EU in 1993) was headed for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy, which would constitute the greatest surrender of Britain’s national sovereignty since 1066.
He went on to say “Community law” would take precedence over our own courts and that ever more power would pass away from Parliament to the bureaucratic system centred in Brussels.
The author even accurately asserts that the increased role of Brussels in the lives of the British people would lead to a “popular feeling of alienation from Government”.
But shockingly politicians were advised “not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community”. "
"They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
"Document FCO30/1048, which has now been declassified under the 30-year rule, still shocks and angers Brexiteers.
Annabelle Sanderson, a Brexit expert and former advisor to Nigel Farage said: “Despite all the claims from politicians of many parties that the EU was not about becoming a central state this 1971 document shows that is exactly what the plan was.
“Arch Remoaners from Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories need to check this out and ask themselves why they are MPs if they don’t actually want Westminster to be in charge of this country.
“We voted for Brexit what needs to happen is a proper clean break from Brussels so we can once again become a sovereign nation with money being spent in this country on services we need and have Parliament and courts making and ruling on the laws.”"
"“One way to create an illusion that this system was still democratic, this anonymous mandarin suggested, would be to give people the chance to vote for new representatives at European, regional and local levels.
“A few years later, we saw the creation of an elected European Parliament – as we see today a craze for introducing elected mayors, as meaningless local figureheads.”"
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/882881/Brexit-EU-secret-document-truth-British-public
Each week the panelists choose a topic for debate.
They research their arguments, and debate them amongst themselves.
This week one of the topics was Brexit, with particular reference to manufacturing.
Nissan in Sunderland came up, with reference to the X-Trail.
Many other reasons were put forward as excuses, such as diesel, a slowdown in China etc etc
You would think that if there were any doubts about being able to sell this vehicle they would just stop production of it.
Yet they haven't, they have moved production to Japan.
So the 740 jobs that were destined for Sunderland, will now be created in Japan.
The uncertainties surrounding our post Brexit trading relationship with the EU must have played a part.
They had agreed in 2016 to manufacture this model in Sunderland, so something has changed in their minds since then.
Nissan set up in the UK to access the EU market.
The fact that Japan have just done a deal with the EU, and it may prove to be easier to supply the EU from Japan than the UK, post Brexit, may be another consideration.
So this could be a first step tp moving their manufacturing elsewhere, depending on the Brexit outcome.
The arguments always seem to follow which side of the argument each panelist supports.
So on the remain side they say that Brexit played a part, where the Brexiteers will say it is down to diesel. If it was down to diesel why would they still manufacture it in Japan?
Why not put a petrol engine in it and still manufacture it in Sunderland?
During the debate Phil the ex army guy, pointed out that a mate of his that owned a drinks company, was looking forward to leaving so he could sell his drinks to the rest of the world.
We don't have to leave to enable him to do this. There are 164 countries that are members of the WTO that he is able to sell to now. How does leaving the EU benefit him in any way?
I really think that the amount of false information, and outright lies being told in the media by politicians, and self appointed experts, has increased since the referendum,
and are predominantly from the leave side.
Brexiteers seem incapable of accepting that any bad news has actually been caused by Brexit.
If you aren't how could you possibly say that these aren't?
The more recent comments are by one other person, who was an advisor to Nigel Farage.
A man who in my view cant lie straight in bed. If I was his advisor I would suggest he tells the truth a bit more.
The proof of the pudding for me is that during my whole life, I really cant think of anything that the EU are responsible for, that has affected my life in an adverse way.
They have been responsible for many things that have benefitted all of us.
During the Brexit negotiations they have behaved much better than our so called elected representatives.
Do you really think that you will benefit in any tangible way from taking back control, or more Sovereignty?
The EU have supplied around 7% of our Primary Legislation. That means to me, that we are pretty much in control.
Leaving will mean damage to our economy, which means jobs will be lost, and many people will be poorer.
I watched the documentary on tv the other night which is a 3 parter on how we ended up with Brexit, and the EU bent over backwards to help David Cameron, and gave him every thing he asked for, pre-referendum.
Just on immigration, which came up a lot in the referendum campaign. Under EU rules the UK has the right to send any EU citizen back to where they came from if they have no job 3 months after arriving. The fact that the Government never enforced this rule is their fault.
Taking back control of our borders, in a no deal scenario, means nothing gets checked. That is a UK Government plan, and hardly seems like taking back any control.
The absolute turmoil we are currently in, is clearly of our own making.
Leaving the EU may well turn out to be a massive disaster, and may lead to the break up of the UK
Please can someone show him how to quote
You asked for evidence of the EU/Brexit lie(s), (Secret document FCO 30/1048).
I provided you one viewpoint on a classified document (Top Secret) for nearly 50 years.
Why do you think it was kept secret for so long?
The document author correctly predicted the path the EU(EEC) was designed to take.
The author also correctly predicted how difficult it would be to leave the EU after time.
UK politicians:
"They were told to preserve the impression that the British Government was still calling the shots rather than an unelected body of foreign politicians – and that the ruse would last “for this century at least” – by which time Britain would be so completely chained to Brussels it would be impossible to leave."
If you check this link you will see the document is still not available for download.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11018818
ps: I only posted the photo at the top of this page for some light-hearted review.
Politicians today cant keep anything a secret and are forever leaking stuff.
I think that many politicians have correctly predicted the path of the EU.
Leaving the EU is very easy invoking Article 50 means you leave 2 years later.
What has proved difficult is disentangling us from a 45 year relationship while trying to cause as little damage as possible.
If the EU put their foot down we will leave in March. This will only not happen if we go cap in hand begging for an extension.
The politicians that were in place in 1971, when this document was produced, will mostly be dead, not preserving any impressions.
It is not impossible to leave, you just need to give 2 years notice.
If your calling the shots, is Primary Legislation, then 93% comes from our Government. That means we are calling the shots.
Keep up the good work Dobie.