Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
^^^^ This
Would be very interested in what people considered more important candidate or party when they vote. If party is more important (which I think it would be) then the re-election idea has a lot more validity.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
^^^^ This
Would be very interested in what people considered more important candidate or party when they vote. If party is more important (which I think it would be) then the re-election idea has a lot more validity.
Yea these people ( whos motives imo aren't as clear cut as they would like to make out ) , were voted in as labour candidates , if they were truly interested in democracy each of them would immediately call for a by election . But thats why they won't , because they know the majority of their votes will have been for the party and not them as individuals .
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
It was covered in extensive detail on Newsnight last night. I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true. I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand. He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts. Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
JM: You said on Five Live earlier today that Jeremy Corbyn hadn’t spoken to you since late 2017. Given his lack of contact, why now? LB: I was invited to a meeting towards the end of last week for the first time, I wasn’t able to make that meeting because I had a guest that had come to parliament, but that was the first time in well over a year.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
^^^^ This
Would be very interested in what people considered more important candidate or party when they vote. If party is more important (which I think it would be) then the re-election idea has a lot more validity.
Yea these people ( whos motives imo aren't as clear cut as they would like to make out ) , were voted in as labour candidates , if they were truly interested in democracy each of them would immediately call for a by election . But thats why they won't , because they know the majority of their votes will have been for the party and not them as individuals .
They might argue that the Labour Party is not now what it was. If their leaving forces Labour to change, it can only be a good thing.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
It was covered in extensive detail on Newsnight last night. I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true. I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand. He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts. Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
650 people work in the same building. 262 of them (til yesterday) were Labour MPs. Of course he has spoken to her. What I expect she meant was that there has been no meaningful conversation on this subject.
It all depends on what you mean by antisemitic.
To some, it means anti-Jewish. Corbyn is not, the Labour Party is not. However, to some people, antisemitic means that you do not support Israel (and, by extension, support the Palestinian cause). Corbyn certainly meets that criteria, as do some members of the Labour Party.
Personally, I do not believe it is racist to support EITHER the Israeli OR Palestinian position. But many people disagree.
Some numbers sound like they mean more than they do. For example, IF there are only 700 complaints, 1 campaigner says she has made more than 200 of them.
Corbyn is in a cleft stick, formed during times when he was a rebel rather than a leader. He cannot be open about his loyalties, because it would cost him votes. It is his years of ploughing his own furrow that prevent him being an effective leader. He reminds me of a traditional C of E vicar-great at preaching to the converted, but out of touch with the non-believers.
It always annoys me that the press in this country concentrate on attacking the left. Anyone think Baroness Warsi's points on racism in the Tory party are not equally valid?
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
It was covered in extensive detail on Newsnight last night. I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true. I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand. He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts. Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
650 people work in the same building. 262 of them (til yesterday) were Labour MPs. Of course he has spoken to her. What I expect she meant was that there has been no meaningful conversation on this subject.
It all depends on what you mean by antisemitic.
To some, it means anti-Jewish. Corbyn is not, the Labour Party is not. However, to some people, antisemitic means that you do not support Israel (and, by extension, support the Palestinian cause). Corbyn certainly meets that criteria, as do some members of the Labour Party.
Personally, I do not believe it is racist to support EITHER the Israeli OR Palestinian position. But many people disagree.
Some numbers sound like they mean more than they do. For example, IF there are only 700 complaints, 1 campaigner says she has made more than 200 of them.
Corbyn is in a cleft stick, formed during times when he was a rebel rather than a leader. He cannot be open about his loyalties, because it would cost him votes. It is his years of ploughing his own furrow that prevent him being an effective leader. He reminds me of a traditional C of E vicar-great at preaching to the converted, but out of touch with the non-believers.
It always annoys me that the press in this country concentrate on attacking the left. Anyone think Baroness Warsi's points on racism in the Tory party are not equally valid?
Getting a bit worried ..thats 2 things today you've said , that i agree 100% with
The Labour Party had what ended up as a car crash meeting last night. Corbyn was missing as usual. I am Flabbergasted that he hasn't even spoken to Luciana Berger for 14 months. She has suffered from horrific Anti-Semitic attacks from Corbyn supporters.
The Labour leadership have lacked any sense of urgency in sorting this out.
Corbyn who claims that Labour is the most democratic of our parties has completely ignored the vote at their Conference that was massively in favour of a second referendum.
So it is democratic, as long as he agrees with the result.
As for the Economic and Social Research Council report on Labour members’ views on Brexit being circulated this week, the commentators who are representing the overwhelming favourability of a People’s Vote among Labour members as evidence that there may be a break with Corbyn on the way, are, again, missing the point. It is true that almost 90 per cent of Labour members personally support a second referendum. Yet it is less often being reported that a clear majority either support Corbyn’s stance (47 per cent) or are indifferent either way (19 per cent). How to explain this discrepancy?
This is why it has been a huge mistake for pollsters to repeatedly ask Labour members and supporters if they want to stop Brexit, and not to follow it up by asking whether they would be willing to sacrifice the chance of a Corbyn government in order to do so, and how much they trust the Labour leadership to make the right decision. As the overwhelming support for Corbyn’s leadership reflected in the ESRC report shows, Corbyn has won the trust of Labour members and supporters by successfully pursuing strategies that the liberal commentariat thought were ludicrous. These commentators and the People’s Vote campaign might reflect Labour members’ views, but they have not yet won their trust
As far as the bolded bit , he hasn't ignored it , he said a little while back that it remains an option !
This is absolute nonsense. Prior to the vote at their Conference he clearly stated that he would abide by the result. Keir Starmer got a standing ovation when stating in his speech they would support a second referendum, with remain on the ballot paper. He has completely ignored the result, and just moved the goal posts ever since.
Labour delegates vote overwhelmingly for Brexit motion backing second referendum as option – as it happened Rolling coverage of the Labour conference in Liverpool, including the debate on Brexit and a second referendum
Labour delegates have overwhelmingly voted in favour of the Brexit motion saying holding a second referendum should be an option. The vote came a few hours after Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, received wild applause after he declared in a speech: “Nobody is ruling out remain as an option.”
The Labour Party had what ended up as a car crash meeting last night. Corbyn was missing as usual. I am Flabbergasted that he hasn't even spoken to Luciana Berger for 14 months. She has suffered from horrific Anti-Semitic attacks from Corbyn supporters.
The Labour leadership have lacked any sense of urgency in sorting this out.
Corbyn who claims that Labour is the most democratic of our parties has completely ignored the vote at their Conference that was massively in favour of a second referendum.
So it is democratic, as long as he agrees with the result.
As for the Economic and Social Research Council report on Labour members’ views on Brexit being circulated this week, the commentators who are representing the overwhelming favourability of a People’s Vote among Labour members as evidence that there may be a break with Corbyn on the way, are, again, missing the point. It is true that almost 90 per cent of Labour members personally support a second referendum. Yet it is less often being reported that a clear majority either support Corbyn’s stance (47 per cent) or are indifferent either way (19 per cent). How to explain this discrepancy?
This is why it has been a huge mistake for pollsters to repeatedly ask Labour members and supporters if they want to stop Brexit, and not to follow it up by asking whether they would be willing to sacrifice the chance of a Corbyn government in order to do so, and how much they trust the Labour leadership to make the right decision. As the overwhelming support for Corbyn’s leadership reflected in the ESRC report shows, Corbyn has won the trust of Labour members and supporters by successfully pursuing strategies that the liberal commentariat thought were ludicrous. These commentators and the People’s Vote campaign might reflect Labour members’ views, but they have not yet won their trust
As far as the bolded bit , he hasn't ignored it , he said a little while back that it remains an option !
This is absolute nonsense. Prior to the vote at their Conference he clearly stated that he would abide by the result. Keir Starmer got a standing ovation when stating in his speech they would support a second referendum, with remain on the ballot paper. He has completely ignored the result, and just moved the goal posts ever since.
Labour delegates vote overwhelmingly for Brexit motion backing second referendum as option – as it happened Rolling coverage of the Labour conference in Liverpool, including the debate on Brexit and a second referendum
Labour delegates have overwhelmingly voted in favour of the Brexit motion saying holding a second referendum should be an option. The vote came a few hours after Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, received wild applause after he declared in a speech: “Nobody is ruling out remain as an option.”
Also as far as democracy is concerned with relation to a "peoples vote " ...I totally agree with this comment by Nicky Morgan : "Any referendum cuts right across the representative democracy we have in this country. Many people feel that now that they have voted, their elected parliamentary representative should not exercise their own judgement on this issue but simply act as instructed by their local electorate. And any representative democracy can only take so much undermining, which is what a second referendum would do."
I think lots of bs surfaces in discussions on this topic.
I think that anyone who says that Brexit is deliverable as per the referendum discussion is deluding themselves.
I think it justifies why we have cooling off periods on contracts.
If nobody has changed their mind, what could anyone moan about?
Anyone that still thinks it will be a good thing, hasn't been paying attention.
The Labour Party had what ended up as a car crash meeting last night. Corbyn was missing as usual. I am Flabbergasted that he hasn't even spoken to Luciana Berger for 14 months. She has suffered from horrific Anti-Semitic attacks from Corbyn supporters.
The Labour leadership have lacked any sense of urgency in sorting this out.
Corbyn who claims that Labour is the most democratic of our parties has completely ignored the vote at their Conference that was massively in favour of a second referendum.
So it is democratic, as long as he agrees with the result.
As for the Economic and Social Research Council report on Labour members’ views on Brexit being circulated this week, the commentators who are representing the overwhelming favourability of a People’s Vote among Labour members as evidence that there may be a break with Corbyn on the way, are, again, missing the point. It is true that almost 90 per cent of Labour members personally support a second referendum. Yet it is less often being reported that a clear majority either support Corbyn’s stance (47 per cent) or are indifferent either way (19 per cent). How to explain this discrepancy?
This is why it has been a huge mistake for pollsters to repeatedly ask Labour members and supporters if they want to stop Brexit, and not to follow it up by asking whether they would be willing to sacrifice the chance of a Corbyn government in order to do so, and how much they trust the Labour leadership to make the right decision. As the overwhelming support for Corbyn’s leadership reflected in the ESRC report shows, Corbyn has won the trust of Labour members and supporters by successfully pursuing strategies that the liberal commentariat thought were ludicrous. These commentators and the People’s Vote campaign might reflect Labour members’ views, but they have not yet won their trust
As far as the bolded bit , he hasn't ignored it , he said a little while back that it remains an option !
At which time he set out a sequence of priorities. This sequence has changed. He even deleted the paragraph relating to a second referendum, in the letter he sent to the PM.
Also as far as democracy is concerned with relation to a "peoples vote " ...I totally agree with this comment by Nicky Morgan : "Any referendum cuts right across the representative democracy we have in this country. Many people feel that now that they have voted, their elected parliamentary representative should not exercise their own judgement on this issue but simply act as instructed by their local electorate. And any representative democracy can only take so much undermining, which is what a second referendum would do."
I think lots of bs surfaces in discussions on this topic.
I think that anyone who says that Brexit is deliverable as per the referendum discussion is deluding themselves.
I think it justifies why we have cooling off periods on contracts.
If nobody has changed their mind, what could anyone moan about?
Anyone that still thinks it will be a good thing, hasn't been paying attention.
It may yet prove to be the only solution.
What is the alternative solution?
For BS , read anything that is the opposite of what you think . The referendum wasn't a supply or goods contract , the government promised to action the result. For the millionth time , it smacks in the face of democracy . It's only a solution if the result is different , and even then it's not really because of the widespread divisiveness it would cause . Thankfully it will never happen .
The number of people in work in the UK has continued to climb, with a record 32.6 million employed between October and December, the latest Office of National Statistics figures show.
Unemployment was little-changed in the three-month period at 1.36 million.
The jobless rate, remaining at 4%, is at its lowest since early 1975.
Weekly average earnings went up by 3.4% to £494.50 in the year to December - after adjusting for inflation, that is the highest level since March 2011 The number of people in work between October and December was up 167,000 from the previous quarter and 444,000 higher than at the same time in 2017.
The employment rate - defined as the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 who are working - was estimated at 75.8%, higher than the 75.2% from a year earlier and the joint-highest figure since comparable estimates began in 1971.
ONS deputy head of labour market Matt Hughes said: "The labour market remains robust, with the employment rate remaining at a record high and vacancies reaching a new record level.
"The unemployment rate has also fallen, and for women has dropped below 4% for the first time ever."
The Labour Party had what ended up as a car crash meeting last night. Corbyn was missing as usual. I am Flabbergasted that he hasn't even spoken to Luciana Berger for 14 months. She has suffered from horrific Anti-Semitic attacks from Corbyn supporters.
The Labour leadership have lacked any sense of urgency in sorting this out.
Corbyn who claims that Labour is the most democratic of our parties has completely ignored the vote at their Conference that was massively in favour of a second referendum.
So it is democratic, as long as he agrees with the result.
As for the Economic and Social Research Council report on Labour members’ views on Brexit being circulated this week, the commentators who are representing the overwhelming favourability of a People’s Vote among Labour members as evidence that there may be a break with Corbyn on the way, are, again, missing the point. It is true that almost 90 per cent of Labour members personally support a second referendum. Yet it is less often being reported that a clear majority either support Corbyn’s stance (47 per cent) or are indifferent either way (19 per cent). How to explain this discrepancy?
This is why it has been a huge mistake for pollsters to repeatedly ask Labour members and supporters if they want to stop Brexit, and not to follow it up by asking whether they would be willing to sacrifice the chance of a Corbyn government in order to do so, and how much they trust the Labour leadership to make the right decision. As the overwhelming support for Corbyn’s leadership reflected in the ESRC report shows, Corbyn has won the trust of Labour members and supporters by successfully pursuing strategies that the liberal commentariat thought were ludicrous. These commentators and the People’s Vote campaign might reflect Labour members’ views, but they have not yet won their trust
As far as the bolded bit , he hasn't ignored it , he said a little while back that it remains an option !
This is absolute nonsense. Prior to the vote at their Conference he clearly stated that he would abide by the result. Keir Starmer got a standing ovation when stating in his speech they would support a second referendum, with remain on the ballot paper. He has completely ignored the result, and just moved the goal posts ever since.
Labour delegates vote overwhelmingly for Brexit motion backing second referendum as option – as it happened Rolling coverage of the Labour conference in Liverpool, including the debate on Brexit and a second referendum
Labour delegates have overwhelmingly voted in favour of the Brexit motion saying holding a second referendum should be an option. The vote came a few hours after Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, received wild applause after he declared in a speech: “Nobody is ruling out remain as an option.”
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
It was covered in extensive detail on Newsnight last night. I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true. I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand. He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts. Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
650 people work in the same building. 262 of them (til yesterday) were Labour MPs. Of course he has spoken to her. What I expect she meant was that there has been no meaningful conversation on this subject.
It all depends on what you mean by antisemitic.
To some, it means anti-Jewish. Corbyn is not, the Labour Party is not. However, to some people, antisemitic means that you do not support Israel (and, by extension, support the Palestinian cause). Corbyn certainly meets that criteria, as do some members of the Labour Party.
Personally, I do not believe it is racist to support EITHER the Israeli OR Palestinian position. But many people disagree.
Some numbers sound like they mean more than they do. For example, IF there are only 700 complaints, 1 campaigner says she has made more than 200 of them.
Corbyn is in a cleft stick, formed during times when he was a rebel rather than a leader. He cannot be open about his loyalties, because it would cost him votes. It is his years of ploughing his own furrow that prevent him being an effective leader. He reminds me of a traditional C of E vicar-great at preaching to the converted, but out of touch with the non-believers.
It always annoys me that the press in this country concentrate on attacking the left. Anyone think Baroness Warsi's points on racism in the Tory party are not equally valid?
M: You said on Five Live earlier today that Jeremy Corbyn hadn’t spoken to you since late 2017. Given his lack of contact, why now?
LB: I was invited to a meeting towards the end of last week for the first time, I wasn’t able to make that meeting because I had a guest that had come to parliament, but that was the first time in well over a year.
JM: Given he hasn’t had direct contact with you in over a year … why resign now?
LB: I’ve certainly raised this issue in very public forums that have a direct link to Jeremy, the parliamentary Labour party I’ve spoken to or moved my own motions. I’ve done it in the presence of well over a hundred colleagues on a number of times. It’s not like my representations won’t have got back to him and again this is about – this is the responsibility of the entire shadow cabinet. This isn’t just that one individual. There’s different facets, there’s different organs of the party and it’s governing body. I’ve endeavoured to speak to all of those.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
I would prefer not.
I think they are completely justified in their actions, and more may follow suit.
If the party was able to silence their voices by calling for compulsory by-elections, it is less likely that they will implement any changes that are long overdue.
I think we gain more by having them sitting in Parliament reminding Labour of their shortcomings.
How they have dealt with Antisemitism, and their Brexit position have both been abysmal.
How could any boss justify not even speaking to a member of staff for 14 months, after they had suffered such horrendous abuse?
To give them an opportunity to gain support from other MPs may help to implement some overdue changes. It would be foolish to think that everything is hunky dory in Parliament.
Tom Watson seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation than Corbyn.
Corbyns popularity seems to be waning, his standing in polls must be disappointing, when considering the Governments performance.
I think it is questionable if Corbyn could ever win an election.
Do you actually believe that ?
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her. The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”. Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
It was covered in extensive detail on Newsnight last night. I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true. I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand. He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts. Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
650 people work in the same building. 262 of them (til yesterday) were Labour MPs. Of course he has spoken to her. What I expect she meant was that there has been no meaningful conversation on this subject.
It all depends on what you mean by antisemitic.
To some, it means anti-Jewish. Corbyn is not, the Labour Party is not. However, to some people, antisemitic means that you do not support Israel (and, by extension, support the Palestinian cause). Corbyn certainly meets that criteria, as do some members of the Labour Party.
Personally, I do not believe it is racist to support EITHER the Israeli OR Palestinian position. But many people disagree.
Some numbers sound like they mean more than they do. For example, IF there are only 700 complaints, 1 campaigner says she has made more than 200 of them.
Corbyn is in a cleft stick, formed during times when he was a rebel rather than a leader. He cannot be open about his loyalties, because it would cost him votes. It is his years of ploughing his own furrow that prevent him being an effective leader. He reminds me of a traditional C of E vicar-great at preaching to the converted, but out of touch with the non-believers.
It always annoys me that the press in this country concentrate on attacking the left. Anyone think Baroness Warsi's points on racism in the Tory party are not equally valid?
The letter said Livingstone had not changed his behaviour during his suspension, calling it “deliberate and offensive behaviour towards the Jewish community”. It highlighted his appearance on the Iranian state broadcaster Press TV on Holocaust Memorial Day, where the topic for discussion was how the Holocaust had been exploited to oppress others.
Livingstone told the Observer last week that the matter was over and he expected to be reinstated. If he were thrown out, he would take legal action against the party, he said. He argued that he had been referring to an agreement between German Zionists and the Nazi government in 1933. “You can’t expel someone for stating historical fact,” he said.
Looks like some politicians trying to do a Macron to me (form your own party, plenty of slogans, rely on being supposedly anti-establishment etc).
I'm no fan of Corbyn. I like my Labour Party to be a broad church. To me, he is just the other side of the Blair coin.
Would like to see a rule change whereby anybody who changes party automatically has to seek a re-election.
^^^^ This
Would be very interested in what people considered more important candidate or party when they vote. If party is more important (which I think it would be) then the re-election idea has a lot more validity.
Very difficult to pin down. Some families vote for a party their whole lives. Tactical voting goes on, where people will vote for one party to stop another party getting in. Some candidates are extremely popular, and would win, wherever they stood. These particular MPs could argue that the party has changed, rather than them. You could argue forever about this.
Comments
Despite Ms Rayner’s unwavering support, Ms Berger was forced to leave the party after a torrent of abuse culminated in a vote of no confidence motion being proposed against her.
The motion was proposed by a member of her local party who called Ms Berger a “disruptive Zionist”.
Worryingly for the Labour Party, Ms Berger did also announce today that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn for at least 14 months despite the constant amount of abuse she has received online.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1089194/Labour-party-latest-angela-rayner-anti-semitism-BBC-newnsight-Luciana-berger
Yep I've read the article ...they didn't actually quote her . Listen , if thats what she is saying and it is true ...it would be a surreal situation , one I can't quite wrap my head around .
I would find it incredible that he hadn't defended himself if it wasn't true.
I also find incredible that despite the fact they have almost 700 Antisemitism complaints, they maintain that there is no problem, and it is all in hand.
He is clearly an ineffective leader on many counts.
Why do you think that Labour aren't smashing the Tories in the polls?
LB: I was invited to a meeting towards the end of last week for the first time, I wasn’t able to make that meeting because I had a guest that had come to parliament, but that was the first time in well over a year.
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/luciana-berger-interview/
If their leaving forces Labour to change, it can only be a good thing.
It all depends on what you mean by antisemitic.
To some, it means anti-Jewish. Corbyn is not, the Labour Party is not.
However, to some people, antisemitic means that you do not support Israel (and, by extension, support the Palestinian cause). Corbyn certainly meets that criteria, as do some members of the Labour Party.
Personally, I do not believe it is racist to support EITHER the Israeli OR Palestinian position. But many people disagree.
Some numbers sound like they mean more than they do. For example, IF there are only 700 complaints, 1 campaigner says she has made more than 200 of them.
Corbyn is in a cleft stick, formed during times when he was a rebel rather than a leader. He cannot be open about his loyalties, because it would cost him votes. It is his years of ploughing his own furrow that prevent him being an effective leader. He reminds me of a traditional C of E vicar-great at preaching to the converted, but out of touch with the non-believers.
It always annoys me that the press in this country concentrate on attacking the left. Anyone think Baroness Warsi's points on racism in the Tory party are not equally valid?
Prior to the vote at their Conference he clearly stated that he would abide by the result.
Keir Starmer got a standing ovation when stating in his speech they would support a second referendum, with remain on the ballot paper.
He has completely ignored the result, and just moved the goal posts ever since.
Labour delegates vote overwhelmingly for Brexit motion backing second referendum as option – as it happened
Rolling coverage of the Labour conference in Liverpool, including the debate on Brexit and a second referendum
Labour delegates have overwhelmingly voted in favour of the Brexit motion saying holding a second referendum should be an option. The vote came a few hours after Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, received wild applause after he declared in a speech: “Nobody is ruling out remain as an option.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/sep/25/labour-conference-brexit-debate-starmer-increasingly-likely-to-vote-down-mays-brexit-deal-starmer-says-politics-live
It would seem to only be an option, when it has become too late.
I think that anyone who says that Brexit is deliverable as per the referendum discussion is deluding themselves.
I think it justifies why we have cooling off periods on contracts.
If nobody has changed their mind, what could anyone moan about?
Anyone that still thinks it will be a good thing, hasn't been paying attention.
It may yet prove to be the only solution.
What is the alternative solution?
The referendum wasn't a supply or goods contract , the government promised to action the result.
For the millionth time , it smacks in the face of democracy .
It's only a solution if the result is different , and even then it's not really because of the widespread divisiveness it would cause .
Thankfully it will never happen .
The number of people in work in the UK has continued to climb, with a record 32.6 million employed between October and December, the latest Office of National Statistics figures show.
Unemployment was little-changed in the three-month period at 1.36 million.
The jobless rate, remaining at 4%, is at its lowest since early 1975.
Weekly average earnings went up by 3.4% to £494.50 in the year to December - after adjusting for inflation, that is the highest level since March 2011
The number of people in work between October and December was up 167,000 from the previous quarter and 444,000 higher than at the same time in 2017.
The employment rate - defined as the proportion of people aged from 16 to 64 who are working - was estimated at 75.8%, higher than the 75.2% from a year earlier and the joint-highest figure since comparable estimates began in 1971.
ONS deputy head of labour market Matt Hughes said: "The labour market remains robust, with the employment rate remaining at a record high and vacancies reaching a new record level.
"The unemployment rate has also fallen, and for women has dropped below 4% for the first time ever."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47290331
M: You said on Five Live earlier today that Jeremy Corbyn hadn’t spoken to you since late 2017. Given his lack of contact, why now?
LB: I was invited to a meeting towards the end of last week for the first time, I wasn’t able to make that meeting because I had a guest that had come to parliament, but that was the first time in well over a year.
JM: Given he hasn’t had direct contact with you in over a year … why resign now?
LB: I’ve certainly raised this issue in very public forums that have a direct link to Jeremy, the parliamentary Labour party I’ve spoken to or moved my own motions. I’ve done it in the presence of well over a hundred colleagues on a number of times. It’s not like my representations won’t have got back to him and again this is about – this is the responsibility of the entire shadow cabinet. This isn’t just that one individual. There’s different facets, there’s different organs of the party and it’s governing body. I’ve endeavoured to speak to all of those.
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/luciana-berger-interview/
The letter said Livingstone had not changed his behaviour during his suspension, calling it “deliberate and offensive behaviour towards the Jewish community”. It highlighted his appearance on the Iranian state broadcaster Press TV on Holocaust Memorial Day, where the topic for discussion was how the Holocaust had been exploited to oppress others.
Livingstone told the Observer last week that the matter was over and he expected to be reinstated. If he were thrown out, he would take legal action against the party, he said. He argued that he had been referring to an agreement between German Zionists and the Nazi government in 1933. “You can’t expel someone for stating historical fact,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/01/labour-extends-ken-livingstones-suspension-over-antisemitism-claims
Some families vote for a party their whole lives.
Tactical voting goes on, where people will vote for one party to stop another party getting in.
Some candidates are extremely popular, and would win, wherever they stood.
These particular MPs could argue that the party has changed, rather than them.
You could argue forever about this.