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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067

    673 complaints of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members were received - a Labour spokesman said this represented about 0.1% of the membership
    96 members were immediately suspended after complaints were made and a further 211 were told they would be investigated

    Hardly not doing anything about it

    The MPs are disputing that the 673 complaints in 9 or 10 months is an accurate figure.
    The time taken to act on the complaints is an issue.
    To just tell 211 people that they would be investigated is not an outcome.
    The complaints referred to, are only those against MPs, and not the total.
    They have refused to disclose details of complaints made prior to this period.
    The word investigation is confusing in this respect. They have a definition and therefore a tweet, text, email, or whatever will either comply or not.
    If an investigation is needed, then a clearer definition is required.
    To have dealt with 96 of the complaints is nothing to be proud of.
    Ken Livingstone was suspended for years, before giving up and resigning.

    Tom Watson and Corbyn have completely different views on this.

    The fact that Derek Hatton got reinstated after 34 years, then gets suspended less than 48 hours later, in respect of this, makes a mockery of the process.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,522
    HAYSIE said:

    673 complaints of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members were received - a Labour spokesman said this represented about 0.1% of the membership
    96 members were immediately suspended after complaints were made and a further 211 were told they would be investigated

    Hardly not doing anything about it

    The MPs are disputing that the 673 complaints in 9 or 10 months is an accurate figure.
    The time taken to act on the complaints is an issue.
    To just tell 211 people that they would be investigated is not an outcome.
    The complaints referred to, are only those against MPs, and not the total.
    They have refused to disclose details of complaints made prior to this period.
    The word investigation is confusing in this respect. They have a definition and therefore a tweet, text, email, or whatever will either comply or not.
    If an investigation is needed, then a clearer definition is required.
    To have dealt with 96 of the complaints is nothing to be proud of.
    Ken Livingstone was suspended for years, before giving up and resigning.

    Tom Watson and Corbyn have completely different views on this.

    The fact that Derek Hatton got reinstated after 34 years, then gets suspended less than 48 hours later, in respect of this, makes a mockery of the process.
    Meanwhile, no comparable figures whatsoever provided by the Conservative party. The fact that 3 people have left because they feel the Conservative party has lurched to the Right (and towards a No Deal Brexit-remember that thread) :) does not have the same spin put on it by the press.

    One party, and one party only, has consistently campaigned against racism.
    Does it get things wrong? Of course it does
    Have individual party members harangued Ms Berger? Almost certainly
    Meanwhile, nothing is done on the other side.

    Meanwhile the papers (and you) concentrate on the perceived failings of the Left while the Right inexorably lead us towards a No Deal Brexit, with their "patriotic politics".

    Why don't you, and other natural remainers like me, concentrate on trying to get the best deal we can via consensus, rather than trying to insist on rerunning a battle that has already been lost? Every day spent trying to force Ref2 (or more accurately Ref3) is another day where no deal is reached. And it is a mixture of BOTH the ERG and Remainers that are leading us to that cliff edge.
  • dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    Eerily quiet on here today
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    673 complaints of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members were received - a Labour spokesman said this represented about 0.1% of the membership
    96 members were immediately suspended after complaints were made and a further 211 were told they would be investigated

    Hardly not doing anything about it

    The MPs are disputing that the 673 complaints in 9 or 10 months is an accurate figure.
    The time taken to act on the complaints is an issue.
    To just tell 211 people that they would be investigated is not an outcome.
    The complaints referred to, are only those against MPs, and not the total.
    They have refused to disclose details of complaints made prior to this period.
    The word investigation is confusing in this respect. They have a definition and therefore a tweet, text, email, or whatever will either comply or not.
    If an investigation is needed, then a clearer definition is required.
    To have dealt with 96 of the complaints is nothing to be proud of.
    Ken Livingstone was suspended for years, before giving up and resigning.

    Tom Watson and Corbyn have completely different views on this.

    The fact that Derek Hatton got reinstated after 34 years, then gets suspended less than 48 hours later, in respect of this, makes a mockery of the process.
    Meanwhile, no comparable figures whatsoever provided by the Conservative party. The fact that 3 people have left because they feel the Conservative party has lurched to the Right (and towards a No Deal Brexit-remember that thread) :) does not have the same spin put on it by the press.

    One party, and one party only, has consistently campaigned against racism.
    Does it get things wrong? Of course it does
    Have individual party members harangued Ms Berger? Almost certainly
    Meanwhile, nothing is done on the other side.

    Meanwhile the papers (and you) concentrate on the perceived failings of the Left while the Right inexorably lead us towards a No Deal Brexit, with their "patriotic politics".

    Why don't you, and other natural remainers like me, concentrate on trying to get the best deal we can via consensus, rather than trying to insist on rerunning a battle that has already been lost? Every day spent trying to force Ref2 (or more accurately Ref3) is another day where no deal is reached. And it is a mixture of BOTH the ERG and Remainers that are leading us to that cliff edge.
    I really don't want to create an argument just for the sake of it.

    You can argue that Labour might have been better putting their house in order, before campaigning against racism.

    I am not sure which is worse, not publishing figures, or publishing untrue figures.

    Both of the main political parties should be able to hold themselves up as examples, when it comes to racism. They clearly cant.

    I can only think that the Tories don't get similar publicity, as they have a much smaller membership. They have 20 to 25% of the size of the Labour membership, so if the complaints were even in the same proportion, it would be a relatively low figure.

    I think Lord Snooty and the ERG, have had plenty of coverage on this thread.

    Unfortunately, you and I are unable to help achieve any sort of deal.

    I am aware, and have been for some time, that there is not currently a majority for another referendum. I have only referred to this option recently as a possible solution, where no other solution seemed likely.

    I think this option is in Corbyns hands.

    The prospect of another referendum has not played a part in the failure to reach an agreement.

    We seem no closer.

    The Withdrawal Agreement getting through seems to be in the hands of the ERG.

    I have been critical of both Labour, and the ERG from the start.

    Labours position has now changed, but their recent arguments seem to have been about the deal that may follow, rather than the Withdrawal Agreement which is the current stumbling block. The are arguing for a mythical Customs Union that will allow us to have a say on future trade deals, and allow us to pursue our own trade policy. This is completely irrelevant to our current difficulties.

    The reason she cant get the Withdrawal Agreement through is that she cant get a majority in her own party to support it.

    Assuming we get a deal, then it will be a Blind Brexit, in that we wont know what sort of deal we are going to get, at the point we leave. Nobody voted for that.

    Democracy has been mentioned many times during the debate. Yet we will ultimately end up with a deal that the majority didn't vote for, or no deal which also didn't have majority support. Yet both these options are supposed to be democratic.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067

    Eerily quiet on here today

    That wont last.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Apparently the polling showed 76% were not in favour of this.

    Shamima Begum latest: Jeremy Corbyn says ISIS bride must receive 'support' and be brought back to the UK


    Jeremy Corbyn has said ISIS bride Shamima Begum must be brought back to the UK where she should receive state “support”.
    It comes after Home Secretary Sajid Javid took the decision to strip the 19-year-old of her British citizenship.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/shamima-begum-latest-jeremy-corbyn-says-isis-bride-must-receive-support-and-be-brought-back-to-the-uk/ar-BBTTOWq?ocid=spartandhp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Chancellor Philip Hammond says Tories are 'absolutely' committed to avoiding no deal Brexit

    Philip Hammond today stressed that he and colleagues were “absolutely committed” to avoiding a no-deal Brexit amid warnings that a third of the Cabinet could resign to stop the UK crashing out of the EU.
    The Chancellor insisted “progress” was being made towards getting Brussels to budge and agree “appropriate guarantees” that the Northern Ireland border “backstop” would only be a temporary measure, as demanded by Brexiteers.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/chancellor-philip-hammond-says-tories-are-absolutely-committed-to-avoiding-no-deal-brexit/ar-BBTTaQD?ocid=spartandhp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Up to TWENTY more Tory and Labour MPs 'are ready to jump ship and join new Independent Group' after Three Amigo Conservative defectors swelled movement's ranks




    As Tory defectors to the new Independent Group claimed there were a 'significant' number of MPs from all parties on the brink of quitting, Westminster was abuzz this evening discussing who could be next to jump ship.
    Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen quit the Tory Party today in an explosive new development for the group that was launched on Monday by a 'gang of seven' ex-Labour MPs.
    Seemingly casting the net across all parties in the Commons, the self-styled Tory 'Three Amigos' claimed there were a significant number of MPs close to joining the breakaway group, provoking a fury of debate in the Commons of who could be next, with Labour's Owen Smith and Tory Justine Greening among those touted.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/up-to-twenty-more-tory-and-labour-mps-are-ready-to-jump-ship-and-join-new-independent-group-after-three-amigo-conservative-defectors-swelled-movements-ranks/ar-BBTQ9Mm?ocid=spartandhp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Theresa May reaches out to Remainer rebels amid quit rumours



    Theresa May has held meetings with leading Tory Remainers, amid speculation about further defections.
    Justine Greening and Phillip Lee say Mrs May has ignored requests from pro-EU Tory MPs in favour of Brexiteers.
    The pair had separate meetings with the PM in Downing Street.
    Ms Greening said she had considered joining the three MPs who quit the Conservative Party on Wednesday - and would do so if there was a no-deal Brexit.
    The defectors, like Ms Greening and Mr Lee, back another EU referendum - and they say more Tory and Labour MPs are poised to join their new Independent Group.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47321482
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Corbyn insists second referendum is central to Labour's agenda




    Jeremy Corbyn has sought to heal divisions in his fractured party by insisting that a second referendum is central to Labour’s agenda.
    Following meetings with senior EU officials in Brussels, the Labour leader called for the prime minister to back a customs union in order to build a Commons majority for the Brexit deal.
    He told reporters that his discussions with EU officials confirmed that Labour’s proposals, which include having a say in the bloc’s trade policy, were “credible”.
    But Corbyn insisted that the option of holding a second referendum, should May fail to back a close economic partnership with the EU, remained “very much part of the agenda put forward by the Labour party”.
    The seven former Labour MPs who split from the party on Monday to form the Independent Group in the Commons all back a second referendum, and have attacked Corbyn for his perceived “betrayal” over Europe.

    Labour is currently internally debating an amendment proposed by Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson under which the party would back May’s current deal on the condition it was put to the public for approval in a second referendum.

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/corbyn-insists-second-referendum-central-151441168.html
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 167,315
    Type your comment

    Eerily quiet on here today

    Now you've started him off again.

    ;)
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Brexit: Japan trade deal will not be ready by deadline




    The UK won't be able to roll over an EU trade deal with Japan in time for a no-deal Brexit, Trade Secretary Liam Fox has said.
    It was one of the most important EU trade deals the UK hoped to replicate ahead of the 29 March withdrawal date.
    The trade department also said it would not be able to roll over the EU's customs union deal with Turkey on time.
    In 2017 Mr Fox said the UK would be able to replicate 40 EU free trade deals by Brexit day.
    But so far the Department of International Trade has only been able to finalise "continuity agreements" with seven of the 69 countries and regions with which the EU has trade deals.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47319533
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    NO-DEAL INEVITABLE: Fuming EU condemns Brexit talks as POINTLESS as FATIGUE risks progress
    CHIEF Eurocrat Jean-Claude Juncker tonight night declared he was tired of Brexit and suggested Britain is on course to leave without a deal

    Cabinet ministers spent hours locked in talks with Brussels negotiators as they raced against the clock to find a way to break the deadlock before March 29. But Mr Juncker, who met Theresa May on Wednesday, said he was "not very optimistic" that an agreement will be reached by exit day. And Government sources admitted an agreement is unlikely to have been struck by next week’s crucial Brexit vote.




    "It doesn't feel like we will have a deal by next week," the source said.
    As Cabinet ministers wrestled to find a way forward in the negotiations, Jeremy Corbyn turned up in the Belgian capital with his plan to keep Britain permanently shackled to the EU.
    The Labour leader told negotiators his party was determined to “get no deal off the table”.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1090601/brexit-news-theresa-may-brexit-deal-jean-claude-junker-hard-brexit
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Brexit DELAY? EU 'expects May to be FORCED into THREE MONTH extension' as exit day looms
    BRUSSELS is reportedly making preparations for Theresa May to renege on her pledge to deliver Brexit by March 29 as EU officials plan to push back Britain’s departure by three months.






    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1090665/brexit-news-delay-article-50-extension-theresa-may-brexit-deal
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Group of 100 Conservative MPs ready to force Brexit delay if May's deal fails

    Theresa May has been warned by a group of 100 moderate Tory MPs that they are prepared to rebel against the Government to force her to delay Brexit if she cannot reach a deal.
    The Brexit Delivery Group, which represents both...







    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/21/brexit-latest-news-labour-tories-brace-walkouts-defectors-reshape/
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Jeremy Corbyn inching closer to backing a second referendum

    Labour leader under intense pressure to act to prevent more restive MPs from leaving party



    Jeremy Corbyn is inching closer to backing a second referendum, with the Labour leader under intense pressure from senior figures including Keir Starmer to prevent more restive MPs from leaving the party and spike the guns of the splitters.
    At a Brexit policy meeting this week, Starmer spoke out in favour of an amendment drawn up by the Labour MPs Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson, the Guardian understands. Under the terms of the amendment, MPs would support the prime minister’s deal in exchange for it being put to a public vote.
    Other supporters of a second referendum, including the shadow home secretary, Diane Abbott, have expressed more scepticism about the approach envisaged by the amendment.
    The idea of supporting a more straightforward, pro-referendum amendment also remains in play, the Guardian understands. “If there was a freestanding second referendum amendment on its own we would have to vote for it,” said one shadow minister


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/starmer-pm-is-running-down-clock-so-mps-only-get-binary-choice
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Theresa May defends 'moderate, open-hearted' Tories as she tells three defectors their criticism of the party is wrong in firm letter




    Theresa May tonight defended her "moderate, open-hearted" party in a letter to the three MPs who defected to the new Independent Group.
    The Prime Minister said she was "saddened" by their decision to leave but firmly rejected their criticisms of the Conservative Party.
    In her letter to Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen, Mrs May dismissed their claims the party had been taken over by the right and was now in the grip of "hard line" Brexiteers.
    The trio had compared the influence of the pro-Brexit European Research Group to how the “hard left has been allowed to consume and terminally undermine the Labour Party”.




    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/theresa-may-defends-moderate-open-hearted-tories-as-she-tells-three-defectors-their-criticism-of-the-party-is-wrong-in-firm-letter/ar-BBTUDsz?ocid=spartandhp
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Report on no-deal Brexit tariffs delayed by Downing Street - The Sun



    (Reuters) - Downing Street has delayed an announcement on no-deal Brexit tariffs to avoid backlash from MPs so that the report comes after the next Brexit vote in parliament, the Sun newspaper reported http://bit.ly/2E5ROZd.
    The report, which was to contain details of import duties on food and ceramics, will now be released only "next Thursday or Friday," the newspaper said. The delay has been caused due to the government's worry about how the announcement will be viewed by MPs, the newspaper said, citing "one insider."




    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/report-no-deal-brexit-tariffs-delayed-downing-street-020658510--sector.html
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    The Daily Telegraph leads with the revelation that 100 moderate Conservative MPs are prepared to rebel to block a no-deal Brexit.
    In a letter to the chief whip - which was leaked to the paper - they describe how they're "deeply troubled" by the prospect and caution that "some colleagues" may not be satisfied with changes to the backstop arrangements for the Irish border and could support amendments designed to delay Brexit.



    The Guardian believes Theresa May "is facing the most serious revolt of her premiership next week, with as many as 25 members of the government ready to vote for a Brexit delay unless she rules out no-deal".
    It says they've been "emboldened by the formation of the Independent Group, which some see as providing leverage to resist the influence of the European Research Group".
    The Times reports that Jeremy Corbyn has been warned that dozens of his MPs could leave the Labour party "unless he backs a plan to put Theresa May's Brexit deal to a second referendum".
    Shadow ministers are said to be among those prepared to "join the new Independent Group in Parliament or resign the whip" if Mr Corbyn fails to support the amendment - put forward by his backbenchers Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson - which comes before the Commons next week.



    With the headline "Cover Up", the Sun says Downing Street is delaying an announcement on import tariffs that would result from a no-deal Brexit until after Wednesday's vote.
    An "insider" suggests the government is worried the details will be seized on by Brexiteers as "another bit of project fear" and by anti-Brexit MPs as "proof no-deal has to be taken off the table".




    Analysis for the Department for Transport, seen by the Financial Times, suggests that a no-deal Brexit could lead to queues of up to a mile long at the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras in central London.
    Experts are said to predict that "any move by France to beef up passport checks for passengers embarking at the station is likely to cause lines of up to 15,000 people".
    They warn that persistent delays could threaten Eurostar's business.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47326481

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,067
    Back second referendum or face mass revolt, Jeremy Corbyn told
    Dozens of Labour MPs considering resignation



    Jeremy Corbyn has been warned that he faces another exodus of MPs unless he backs a plan to put Theresa May’s Brexit deal to a second referendum.
    His office has been told that dozens of MPs, including shadow ministers, are prepared to join the new Independent Group in parliament or resign the whip, in defiance over the party’s EU policy.
    They are demanding that he support a proposal by two of his backbench MPs in which Labour would agree to pass legislation underpinning Mrs May’s deal in return for a public vote. If the deal were rejected by the electorate, the government would be obliged to withdraw Article 50 and remain in the EU.
    One MP, who considered quitting the party this week, said: “If…


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/back-second-referendum-or-face-mass-revolt-jeremy-corbyntold-z9blwdwf3
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