Theresa May has vowed to block right-wing entryists from joining the Conservative Party in an attempt to stem further defections. Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen said local Tory associations were being infiltrated by a Eurosceptic “purple Momentum” when they joined the new Independent Group of MPs on Wednesday. In a letter to the trio, Mrs May said she did “not accept” the comparison between the Conservative grassroots and the influx of left-wing activists into the Labour Party since Jeremy Corbyn became leader. “An open, broad party should always welcome new members and supporters with a range of views, including those who have previously supported other parties,” the prime minister wrote yesterday.
Nick Boles, the MP for Grantham and Stamford, has been targeted for deselection for supporting a soft Brexit
HAYSIE Posts: 3,180Member February 19 edited February 20 dobiesdraw said:
» show previous quotes For BS , read anything that is the opposite of what you think . The referendum wasn't a supply or goods contract , the government promised to action the result. For the millionth time , it smacks in the face of democracy . It's only a solution if the result is different , and even then it's not really because of the widespread divisiveness it would cause . Thankfully it will never happen .
I think it has just become a bit more likely, watch Mr Corbyn. What is the difference in calling another election 2years after the last one?
There was a moment when I thought there might be a chance for consensus. A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
Theresa May must go in three months, cabinet ministers say
Cabinet ministers will make it clear they believe Theresa May should step down after the local elections in May and allow a new leader to deliver the next phase of the Brexit negotiations, the Guardian understands. Senior figures in government have suggested they want the prime minister to leave shortly after the first phase of the Brexit negotiations finishes – or risk being defeated in a vote of no confidence at the end of the year. May wants to stay in place for long enough after Brexit to secure a political legacy beyond the fraught negotiations.
But some ministers believe she should announce the timeline for her departure “on a high” after the local election results, paving the way for a Conservative leadership contest over the summer. Brexiters in the cabinet are keen to see a new leader take over for the next stage of the negotiations with the EU, which May has already pledged will involve more active involvement for politicians rather than advisors. The hardening mood among cabinet ministers on the timeline for her departure will place further pressure on May before a critical week of Brexit talks and votes amid a febrile climate in Westminster. On Thursday the Guardian revealed that remainer ministers emboldened by the departure of three MPs to the Independent Group (TIG) were threatening to rebel against her leadership to prevent a no-deal outcome – daring her to sack them.
Jeremy Corbyn dismisses deputy leader's comments as he denies allegations of 'wide scale' bullying in Labour party
Jeremy Corbyn has dismissed comments made by his deputy leader about bullying in the Labour Party, claiming he does not believe it exists on a “wide scale”. The Labour leader was addressing remarks made by Tom Watson, who had suggested that a “virulent form of identity politics has seized the party.” Nine MPs quit the party this week, with the majority citing growing antisemitism and bullying under Mr Corbyn’s leadership as key reasons behind their decision to leave. The Labour leader said that all issues of “bad behaviour” are dealt with and there was no place for such behaviour in the party. “[There is] no place for harshness, bullying or anything else in the party and to tell you the truth, I don't believe it exists on a wide scale,” Mr Corbyn told Sky News. "Where there is bad behaviour, we deal with it." Speculation has continued to circulated around Westminster that more disaffected MPs could follow the initial nine who have left the party.
In a video message, the deputy leader also issued a scathing attack on "hard left" members who were celebrating after the MPs decided to leave the party's ranks. "I love this party," Mr Watson said. "But sometimes I no longer recognise it. That’s why I do not regard those who have resigned today as traitors.” Support free-thinking journalism and subscribe to Independent Minds He added: "I confess I feared this day would come. And I fear now, that unless we change, we may see more days like this. The departure of our colleagues poses a test for our party.” “Do we respond with simple condemnation or do we try and reach out and extend beyond our comfort zone and prevent others from following?” Asked about the deputy leader's comments, Mr Corbyn said: "Of course I disagree with him, because I do not wish to be in a party where there's any bullying. "I'll be speaking to Tom Watson in the very near future to talk about that."
He is certainly no loss. His frequent ill-tempered outbursts were an embarrassment to the Labour Party.
His disdain for grassroots members was palpable as was his contempt for Labour’s progressive policy programme that secured the party’s biggest increase in vote share since 1945.
The truth is he fought the last election under false pretences, using the Labour brand to get re-elected.
Another positive thing about his departure is that Labour Party members in Dudley North can now select a candidate who will work with them to fight for Dudley, rather than fighting against them.”
For Austin to salvage any shred of credibility he must resign as an MP and fight a by-election in his Dudley North constituency, but in view of his obvious contempt for democracy over the last three and a half years I think he’s unlikely to do so.
The Daily Mail regards the intervention on Brexit by three cabinet ministers - Amber Rudd, David Gauke and Greg Clark - as them "publicly serving notice" on Theresa May.
It says their "no-deal revolt" could be joined by up to 20 junior ministers - and 100 Conservative MPs who, with Labour support, would be certain to defeat Mrs May and force her to delay Brexit. A source insists they are not issuing an ultimatum to the prime minister, but challenging the hardline European Research Group to support her Brexit deal. On a high The i carries reports the shadow chancellor John McDonnell has "extended an olive branch to anti-Brexit Labour MPs who are considering resignation". It quotes an interview with the Evening Standard, in which he indicates that the party leadership is "moving towards support" for another referendum. In what it describes as a significant intervention, the Politics Home website says Mr McDonnell has asked backbenchers Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson to redraft their amendment offering support for Theresa May's deal providing there is a fresh public vote on any Brexit deal backed by MPs. Elsewhere, the Guardian says Brexiteers in the cabinet are pushing for the prime minister to step down after the local elections in May, to allow a new leader to take forward the next phase of the negotiations. They are said to fear she could be defeated in a vote of no confidence at the end of the year and want her to go out "on a high" if she can deliver her deal and capitalise in the polls.
Heidi Allen - who quit the Conservatives to join the new Independent Group - tells the Independent online that it would support Mrs May in any vote of no confidence. The breakaway MPs are said to have decided "not to do anything that would facilitate a general election"
Care concerns According to the Times, Labour is turning to "Tony Blair's old flatmate" - and the former lord chancellor - Lord Falconer to oversee investigations into anti-Semitism claims. He is said to be preparing to meet Jeremy Corbyn on Monday to discuss his appointment as the party's anti-Semitism surveillance commissioner with a remit to "see everything and talk to everybody" and provide public reports on its handling of complaints. The Daily Telegraph says it has learned that Health Secretary Matt Hancock has warned the prime minister that plans to cap the maximum people will pay for their care in England to £100,0000 will "lead to significant tax rises". Mr Hancock is said to be "concerned" that the cap is due to be included in a forthcoming Green Paper on social care, believing that it will benefit the well-off and impose a bureaucratic burden on councils
Brexit SHOCK claim: Former WTO boss warns Brexiteers no deal trade plans are 'NONSENSE'
FORMER World Trade Organisation boss Pascal Lamy dismissed claims from Brexiteers suggesting the UK would enjoy better trade regulations with international partners without a Brexit divorce deal with the European Union.
Pascal Lamy claimed a no deal Brexit would make "no sense" as British tradesmen would see tariffs and barriers instituted on all trade with the European Union. The former World Trade Organisation (WTO) chief insisted the British Government should strike an arrangement securing continuity past March 29 because of the deep connection British and European business have built over the past 40 years. Speaking to Euronews, Mr Lamy said: "I know there’s a view on the Brexit side that they become independent, they regain control.
"In a world which is globalising, integrating, I think it makes absolutely no sense. "What would be the sense of having a regulation for 60 million people when the world is moving to zones who have regulations for 500 million or 600 million people? It makes no sense." A no deal scenario in March 2019 would effectively annul all trade deals the UK has benefitted from as a member of the EU unless rolled back into British legislation. Britain would then have to revert to WTO rules and apply a set list of tariffs - a tax on imports of goods – and quotas – limits on the number of goods - on other countries seeking to do business with the UK.
BREXIT BOOST: Nigel Farage to POACH senior Tories from UNDER MAY’S NOSE for Brexit Party EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories from the “heart of the Conservative party” are poised to join the new Brexit Party if there is a delay to Britain leaving the EU, it was claimed on Friday.
John McDonnell hints at support for a second Brexit vote in bid to stem defections from Labour Almost half of the parliamentary Labour party is believed to support a fresh vote on EU membership
John McDonnell extended an olive branch to anti-Brexit Labour MPs who are considering resignation by promising that the leadership is “moving towards” support for a second referendum. i has learnt that Mr McDonnell has been holding face-to-face meetings with disgruntled MPs, while Jeremy Corbyn’s office has been ringing round potential defectors. The eight MPs who have defected to the new Independent Group have cited frustration over Jeremy Corbyn’s stance on Brexit as a key factor in their decision. Others will spend the weekend contemplating whether to follow suit.
There was a moment when I thought there might be a chance for consensus. A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
I think that Labour solidarity has only been maintained by not actually saying anything.
Their opposition to the Tories has been completely ineffective.
Their input to the Brexit debate has been nonexistent, until fairly recently.
They have suddenly decided to pressure the PM, to remove the prospect of no deal, and to support a Customs Union.
The Yvette Cooper amendment, stopping the no deal option, only failed to get through, because of the Labour MPs that defied the whip, and voted against, or abstained. There was no action taken against them despite it being a three lined whip vote.
The Labour suggestions on a Customs Union, Single Market access etc, belong in phase 2 negotiations, and fail to offer assistance in solving the immediate problem.
Also when Corbyn has been asked to articulate the difference between the PMs deal and being in a Customs Union, he seems unable to do so.
Corbyn has clearly been forced into offering support for another referendum, against his will.
Just extending Article 50, only postpones a no deal outcome.
To avoid no deal, will involve getting a deal through at some point. So the difficulty relates to the Withdrawal Agreement, rather than any future deal.
Unless the Withdrawal Agreement can be passed, there will be no future deal.
Article 50 seems odds on to be extended, assuming the EU agree to it.
If another referendum was to happen, an extension of sufficient time to accommodate it would be required. The EU have already agreed that they would extend Article 50, to allow for an election, or referendum
The latest Labour proposals seem to support a Norway plus a Customs Union deal. This can only return the debate to claims from leavers regarding a lack of democracy, and not being what they voted for.
This Norway type deal seems to have garnered cross party support. I think it is about the closest you could be to the EU, without being a member. My view is that to argue for this deal, is to admit that staying in is the best option. We would almost be staying in, but without a say in anything, and without any opportunity to assist in shaping the future of the EU.
If a Norway plus a Customs Union deal was done, we would surely alienate many leave voters. We would maintain Freedom of Movement, make annual financial contributions, and be unable to have an independent trade policy. Although this may cause the least damage to our economy, the only thing that would be considered a worse outcome by Brexiteers, is another referendum.
I don't think you can attribute the lack of support for the smaller parties purely to their positions on Brexit, as many other factors will have come into play.
I think that the resignations have encouraged others to become more outspoken. If the result of this, is that the no deal option was removed next week, then it can only be seen as a good thing.
Whatever the outcome, it seems that it will only have been supported by a minority.
I don't feel disposed to voting for either of the two main parties. I realise that the chances of those that have resigned, forming a successful new party, are slim. Although if they were, there are plenty of people like me that would vote for them.
There are questions being asked about the ERG. This is a peculiar name, as they hate Europe, do very little Research, and aren't much of a Group.
I don't see any point in going through the catalogue of errors made by the Tories during the period since the referendum.
Theresa May has been a disastrous leader, and has proved to be useless throughout the negotiations.
The Meaningful Vote was supposed to be on the trade deal, not the Withdrawal Agreement. All negotiations were meant to be concluded by the end of next month. Liam Fox and the easiest trade deal in human history, and David Davis with, we will have all the same benefits, spring to mind.
I think that the whole thing has proved that the delivery of Brexit, as promised, was always going to be impossible.
There was a moment when I thought there might be a chance for consensus. A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
I think that Labour solidarity has only been maintained by not actually saying anything.
Their opposition to the Tories has been completely ineffective.
Their input to the Brexit debate has been nonexistent, until fairly recently.
They have suddenly decided to pressure the PM, to remove the prospect of no deal, and to support a Customs Union.
The Yvette Cooper amendment, stopping the no deal option, only failed to get through, because of the Labour MPs that defied the whip, and voted against, or abstained. There was no action taken against them despite it being a three lined whip vote.
The Labour suggestions on a Customs Union, Single Market access etc, belong in phase 2 negotiations, and fail to offer assistance in solving the immediate problem.
Also when Corbyn has been asked to articulate the difference between the PMs deal and being in a Customs Union, he seems unable to do so.
Corbyn has clearly been forced into offering support for another referendum, against his will.
Just extending Article 50, only postpones a no deal outcome.
To avoid no deal, will involve getting a deal through at some point. So the difficulty relates to the Withdrawal Agreement, rather than any future deal.
Unless the Withdrawal Agreement can be passed, there will be no future deal.
Article 50 seems odds on to be extended, assuming the EU agree to it.
If another referendum was to happen, an extension of sufficient time to accommodate it would be required. The EU have already agreed that they would extend Article 50, to allow for an election, or referendum
The latest Labour proposals seem to support a Norway plus a Customs Union deal. This can only return the debate to claims from leavers regarding a lack of democracy, and not being what they voted for.
This Norway type deal seems to have garnered cross party support. I think it is about the closest you could be to the EU, without being a member. My view is that to argue for this deal, is to admit that staying in is the best option. We would almost be staying in, but without a say in anything, and without any opportunity to assist in shaping the future of the EU.
If a Norway plus a Customs Union deal was done, we would surely alienate many leave voters. We would maintain Freedom of Movement, make annual financial contributions, and be unable to have an independent trade policy. Although this may cause the least damage to our economy, the only thing that would be considered a worse outcome by Brexiteers, is another referendum.
I don't think you can attribute the lack of support for the smaller parties purely to their positions on Brexit, as many other factors will have come into play.
I think that the resignations have encouraged others to become more outspoken. If the result of this, is that the no deal option was removed next week, then it can only be seen as a good thing.
Whatever the outcome, it seems that it will only have been supported by a minority.
I don't feel disposed to voting for either of the two main parties. I realise that the chances of those that have resigned, forming a successful new party, are slim. Although if they were, there are plenty of people like me that would vote for them.
There are questions being asked about the ERG. This is a peculiar name, as they hate Europe, do very little Research, and aren't much of a Group.
I don't see any point in going through the catalogue of errors made by the Tories during the period since the referendum.
Theresa May has been a disastrous leader, and has proved to be useless throughout the negotiations.
The Meaningful Vote was supposed to be on the trade deal, not the Withdrawal Agreement. All negotiations were meant to be concluded by the end of next month. Liam Fox and the easiest trade deal in human history, and David Davis with, we will have all the same benefits, spring to mind.
I think that the whole thing has proved that the delivery of Brexit, as promised, was always going to be impossible.
It is only proving to be impossible because there are 3 camps, and 2 of them are failing to move.
The ERG are confident that the question the electorate answered was to completely cut ourselves off from Europe.
Remainers refuse to accept the result of an vote that has already taken place.
Are May and Corbyn fairly useless? Yes. But, in fairness, they appear to be 2 of the few people who are trying to broker some form of compromise, as opposed to staying in their own ideological hut and throwing rocks. You reserve your criticism for the only 2 people who could realistically resolve this issue in time.
You have provided lots of evidence about how we can not do this, that and the other deal in time. I agree. However, you conveniently fail to address the time issues for a 2nd referendum in my last post.
The main reason it is proving "impossible" as loads of politicians refusing to compromise. How very un-British.
There was a moment when I thought there might be a chance for consensus. A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
I think that Labour solidarity has only been maintained by not actually saying anything.
Their opposition to the Tories has been completely ineffective.
Their input to the Brexit debate has been nonexistent, until fairly recently.
They have suddenly decided to pressure the PM, to remove the prospect of no deal, and to support a Customs Union.
The Yvette Cooper amendment, stopping the no deal option, only failed to get through, because of the Labour MPs that defied the whip, and voted against, or abstained. There was no action taken against them despite it being a three lined whip vote.
The Labour suggestions on a Customs Union, Single Market access etc, belong in phase 2 negotiations, and fail to offer assistance in solving the immediate problem.
Also when Corbyn has been asked to articulate the difference between the PMs deal and being in a Customs Union, he seems unable to do so.
Corbyn has clearly been forced into offering support for another referendum, against his will.
Just extending Article 50, only postpones a no deal outcome.
To avoid no deal, will involve getting a deal through at some point. So the difficulty relates to the Withdrawal Agreement, rather than any future deal.
Unless the Withdrawal Agreement can be passed, there will be no future deal.
Article 50 seems odds on to be extended, assuming the EU agree to it.
If another referendum was to happen, an extension of sufficient time to accommodate it would be required. The EU have already agreed that they would extend Article 50, to allow for an election, or referendum
The latest Labour proposals seem to support a Norway plus a Customs Union deal. This can only return the debate to claims from leavers regarding a lack of democracy, and not being what they voted for.
This Norway type deal seems to have garnered cross party support. I think it is about the closest you could be to the EU, without being a member. My view is that to argue for this deal, is to admit that staying in is the best option. We would almost be staying in, but without a say in anything, and without any opportunity to assist in shaping the future of the EU.
If a Norway plus a Customs Union deal was done, we would surely alienate many leave voters. We would maintain Freedom of Movement, make annual financial contributions, and be unable to have an independent trade policy. Although this may cause the least damage to our economy, the only thing that would be considered a worse outcome by Brexiteers, is another referendum.
I don't think you can attribute the lack of support for the smaller parties purely to their positions on Brexit, as many other factors will have come into play.
I think that the resignations have encouraged others to become more outspoken. If the result of this, is that the no deal option was removed next week, then it can only be seen as a good thing.
Whatever the outcome, it seems that it will only have been supported by a minority.
I don't feel disposed to voting for either of the two main parties. I realise that the chances of those that have resigned, forming a successful new party, are slim. Although if they were, there are plenty of people like me that would vote for them.
There are questions being asked about the ERG. This is a peculiar name, as they hate Europe, do very little Research, and aren't much of a Group.
I don't see any point in going through the catalogue of errors made by the Tories during the period since the referendum.
Theresa May has been a disastrous leader, and has proved to be useless throughout the negotiations.
The Meaningful Vote was supposed to be on the trade deal, not the Withdrawal Agreement. All negotiations were meant to be concluded by the end of next month. Liam Fox and the easiest trade deal in human history, and David Davis with, we will have all the same benefits, spring to mind.
I think that the whole thing has proved that the delivery of Brexit, as promised, was always going to be impossible.
Why would that be ? you are more than happy to apportion a large amount of blame on Labour for the brexit situation we find ourselves in .
Ministers spend £100m on Brexit consultant contracts
The government has agreed contracts worth £104m for outside help on Brexit, according to analysis for the BBC. Since the EU referendum, Whitehall has hired companies to do consultancy work to prepare for the UK's EU exit.
There was a moment when I thought there might be a chance for consensus. A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
I think that Labour solidarity has only been maintained by not actually saying anything.
Their opposition to the Tories has been completely ineffective.
Their input to the Brexit debate has been nonexistent, until fairly recently.
They have suddenly decided to pressure the PM, to remove the prospect of no deal, and to support a Customs Union.
The Yvette Cooper amendment, stopping the no deal option, only failed to get through, because of the Labour MPs that defied the whip, and voted against, or abstained. There was no action taken against them despite it being a three lined whip vote.
The Labour suggestions on a Customs Union, Single Market access etc, belong in phase 2 negotiations, and fail to offer assistance in solving the immediate problem.
Also when Corbyn has been asked to articulate the difference between the PMs deal and being in a Customs Union, he seems unable to do so.
Corbyn has clearly been forced into offering support for another referendum, against his will.
Just extending Article 50, only postpones a no deal outcome.
To avoid no deal, will involve getting a deal through at some point. So the difficulty relates to the Withdrawal Agreement, rather than any future deal.
Unless the Withdrawal Agreement can be passed, there will be no future deal.
Article 50 seems odds on to be extended, assuming the EU agree to it.
If another referendum was to happen, an extension of sufficient time to accommodate it would be required. The EU have already agreed that they would extend Article 50, to allow for an election, or referendum
The latest Labour proposals seem to support a Norway plus a Customs Union deal. This can only return the debate to claims from leavers regarding a lack of democracy, and not being what they voted for.
This Norway type deal seems to have garnered cross party support. I think it is about the closest you could be to the EU, without being a member. My view is that to argue for this deal, is to admit that staying in is the best option. We would almost be staying in, but without a say in anything, and without any opportunity to assist in shaping the future of the EU.
If a Norway plus a Customs Union deal was done, we would surely alienate many leave voters. We would maintain Freedom of Movement, make annual financial contributions, and be unable to have an independent trade policy. Although this may cause the least damage to our economy, the only thing that would be considered a worse outcome by Brexiteers, is another referendum.
I don't think you can attribute the lack of support for the smaller parties purely to their positions on Brexit, as many other factors will have come into play.
I think that the resignations have encouraged others to become more outspoken. If the result of this, is that the no deal option was removed next week, then it can only be seen as a good thing.
Whatever the outcome, it seems that it will only have been supported by a minority.
I don't feel disposed to voting for either of the two main parties. I realise that the chances of those that have resigned, forming a successful new party, are slim. Although if they were, there are plenty of people like me that would vote for them.
There are questions being asked about the ERG. This is a peculiar name, as they hate Europe, do very little Research, and aren't much of a Group.
I don't see any point in going through the catalogue of errors made by the Tories during the period since the referendum.
Theresa May has been a disastrous leader, and has proved to be useless throughout the negotiations.
The Meaningful Vote was supposed to be on the trade deal, not the Withdrawal Agreement. All negotiations were meant to be concluded by the end of next month. Liam Fox and the easiest trade deal in human history, and David Davis with, we will have all the same benefits, spring to mind.
I think that the whole thing has proved that the delivery of Brexit, as promised, was always going to be impossible.
Why would that be ? you are more than happy to apportion a large amount of blame on Labour for the brexit situation we find ourselves in .
At some point, whatever's Labour's many failings are you have to ask yourself this question.
Whose primary job is it to govern this country? The Government? Or the opposition?
Comments
Theresa May has vowed to block right-wing entryists from joining the Conservative Party in an attempt to stem further defections.
Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen said local Tory associations were being infiltrated by a Eurosceptic “purple Momentum” when they joined the new Independent Group of MPs on Wednesday.
In a letter to the trio, Mrs May said she did “not accept” the comparison between the Conservative grassroots and the influx of left-wing activists into the Labour Party since Jeremy Corbyn became leader. “An open, broad party should always welcome new members and supporters with a range of views, including those who have previously supported other parties,” the prime minister wrote yesterday.
Nick Boles, the MP for Grantham and Stamford, has been targeted for deselection for supporting a soft Brexit
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ill-stop-brexit-extremists-infiltrating-our-party-theresa-may-assures-tories-q3lwbsmwv
HAYSIE Posts: 3,180Member
February 19 edited February 20
dobiesdraw said:
» show previous quotes
For BS , read anything that is the opposite of what you think .
The referendum wasn't a supply or goods contract , the government promised to action the result.
For the millionth time , it smacks in the face of democracy .
It's only a solution if the result is different , and even then it's not really because of the widespread divisiveness it would cause .
Thankfully it will never happen .
I think it has just become a bit more likely, watch Mr Corbyn.
What is the difference in calling another election 2years after the last one?
A new party is to be formed, seeking to appeal to the centre/left of the Tories, and the centre/right of Labour. Surely that could provide a springboard to finally move forward.
But no. What we have is a collection of embittered people who have only soundbites and the desire to attack their former party.
Their first opportunity to showcase their policies came on Question Time. Anna Soubry couldn't make it. So who replaced her-Chuka Umunna (like him or not, the man has media skill)? No-Chris Leslie. A man who spent his entire time sniping at Labour, and none at the Conservatives.Who demands that the people have a second say on Europe, while steadfastly denying his electorate the same courtesy. His attack on Baroness Chakrabati was particularly mean-spirited. The only realistic hope of a majority is an agreed deal on Brexit.
We could be having a sensible discussion about whether a Norway or Canada model would be better. We could be doing our utmost to avoid the no-deal Brexit that will hurt the economy far more than leaving. But no. We have a new party whose genius idea is to pretend the Referendum never happened, declare that they will vote down the Deal on the table, while simultaneously insisting that "no deal" is taken off the table.
NEWSFLASH. If you don't agree on something, you have no deal. Pretending otherwise is fantasy. 5 weeks to go-think you can organise a referendum, count the votes, quell the riots, deal with 27 nations on a new deal in that time? Makes Corbyn solving antisemitism a doddle.
It is true to say that the 2 Main parties have deep divisions on Brexit. But let's not forget that the LibDems and the Greens went into the last election united and with a clear message on Brexit. Between them, they have 12 MPs, while the 2 main parties got 500-odd. Hardly a groundswell for a 2nd referendum, was it?
Normally it has taken a comedian to outshine politicians on political debate on QT. Now it is clear that footballers can be added to that list.
In late news, the new Independent party want to rerun the World Cup semi between England and Croatia, while the Scottish wing want the 1966 linesman replaced
Unsure as to the significance of this .
Cabinet ministers will make it clear they believe Theresa May should step down after the local elections in May and allow a new leader to deliver the next phase of the Brexit negotiations, the Guardian understands.
Senior figures in government have suggested they want the prime minister to leave shortly after the first phase of the Brexit negotiations finishes – or risk being defeated in a vote of no confidence at the end of the year.
May wants to stay in place for long enough after Brexit to secure a political legacy beyond the fraught negotiations.
But some ministers believe she should announce the timeline for her departure “on a high” after the local election results, paving the way for a Conservative leadership contest over the summer.
Brexiters in the cabinet are keen to see a new leader take over for the next stage of the negotiations with the EU, which May has already pledged will involve more active involvement for politicians rather than advisors.
The hardening mood among cabinet ministers on the timeline for her departure will place further pressure on May before a critical week of Brexit talks and votes amid a febrile climate in Westminster.
On Thursday the Guardian revealed that remainer ministers emboldened by the departure of three MPs to the Independent Group (TIG) were threatening to rebel against her leadership to prevent a no-deal outcome – daring her to sack them.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/theresa-may-must-go-in-three-months-cabinet-ministers-say/ar-BBTXgnp?ocid=spartandhp
Jeremy Corbyn has dismissed comments made by his deputy leader about bullying in the Labour Party, claiming he does not believe it exists on a “wide scale”.
The Labour leader was addressing remarks made by Tom Watson, who had suggested that a “virulent form of identity politics has seized the party.”
Nine MPs quit the party this week, with the majority citing growing antisemitism and bullying under Mr Corbyn’s leadership as key reasons behind their decision to leave.
The Labour leader said that all issues of “bad behaviour” are dealt with and there was no place for such behaviour in the party.
“[There is] no place for harshness, bullying or anything else in the party and to tell you the truth, I don't believe it exists on a wide scale,” Mr Corbyn told Sky News.
"Where there is bad behaviour, we deal with it."
Speculation has continued to circulated around Westminster that more disaffected MPs could follow the initial nine who have left the party.
In a video message, the deputy leader also issued a scathing attack on "hard left" members who were celebrating after the MPs decided to leave the party's ranks.
"I love this party," Mr Watson said. "But sometimes I no longer recognise it. That’s why I do not regard those who have resigned today as traitors.”
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He added: "I confess I feared this day would come. And I fear now, that unless we change, we may see more days like this. The departure of our colleagues poses a test for our party.”
“Do we respond with simple condemnation or do we try and reach out and extend beyond our comfort zone and prevent others from following?”
Asked about the deputy leader's comments, Mr Corbyn said: "Of course I disagree with him, because I do not wish to be in a party where there's any bullying.
"I'll be speaking to Tom Watson in the very near future to talk about that."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/jeremy-corbyn-dismisses-deputy-leaders-comments-as-he-denies-allegations-of-wide-scale-bullying-in-labour-party/ar-BBTXzXe?ocid=spartandhp
He is certainly no loss. His frequent ill-tempered outbursts were an embarrassment to the Labour Party.
His disdain for grassroots members was palpable as was his contempt for Labour’s progressive policy programme that secured the party’s biggest increase in vote share since 1945.
The truth is he fought the last election under false pretences, using the Labour brand to get re-elected.
Another positive thing about his departure is that Labour Party members in Dudley North can now select a candidate who will work with them to fight for Dudley, rather than fighting against them.”
For Austin to salvage any shred of credibility he must resign as an MP and fight a by-election in his Dudley North constituency, but in view of his obvious contempt for democracy over the last three and a half years I think he’s unlikely to do so.
It says their "no-deal revolt" could be joined by up to 20 junior ministers - and 100 Conservative MPs who, with Labour support, would be certain to defeat Mrs May and force her to delay Brexit.
A source insists they are not issuing an ultimatum to the prime minister, but challenging the hardline European Research Group to support her Brexit deal.
On a high
The i carries reports the shadow chancellor John McDonnell has "extended an olive branch to anti-Brexit Labour MPs who are considering resignation".
It quotes an interview with the Evening Standard, in which he indicates that the party leadership is "moving towards support" for another referendum.
In what it describes as a significant intervention, the Politics Home website says Mr McDonnell has asked backbenchers Peter Kyle and Phil Wilson to redraft their amendment offering support for Theresa May's deal providing there is a fresh public vote on any Brexit deal backed by MPs.
Elsewhere, the Guardian says Brexiteers in the cabinet are pushing for the prime minister to step down after the local elections in May, to allow a new leader to take forward the next phase of the negotiations.
They are said to fear she could be defeated in a vote of no confidence at the end of the year and want her to go out "on a high" if she can deliver her deal and capitalise in the polls.
Heidi Allen - who quit the Conservatives to join the new Independent Group - tells the Independent online that it would support Mrs May in any vote of no confidence. The breakaway MPs are said to have decided "not to do anything that would facilitate a general election"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47339649
According to the Times, Labour is turning to "Tony Blair's old flatmate" - and the former lord chancellor - Lord Falconer to oversee investigations into anti-Semitism claims.
He is said to be preparing to meet Jeremy Corbyn on Monday to discuss his appointment as the party's anti-Semitism surveillance commissioner with a remit to "see everything and talk to everybody" and provide public reports on its handling of complaints.
The Daily Telegraph says it has learned that Health Secretary Matt Hancock has warned the prime minister that plans to cap the maximum people will pay for their care in England to £100,0000 will "lead to significant tax rises".
Mr Hancock is said to be "concerned" that the cap is due to be included in a forthcoming Green Paper on social care, believing that it will benefit the well-off and impose a bureaucratic burden on councils
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47339649
FORMER World Trade Organisation boss Pascal Lamy dismissed claims from Brexiteers suggesting the UK would enjoy better trade regulations with international partners without a Brexit divorce deal with the European Union.
Pascal Lamy claimed a no deal Brexit would make "no sense" as British tradesmen would see tariffs and barriers instituted on all trade with the European Union. The former World Trade Organisation (WTO) chief insisted the British Government should strike an arrangement securing continuity past March 29 because of the deep connection British and European business have built over the past 40 years. Speaking to Euronews, Mr Lamy said: "I know there’s a view on the Brexit side that they become independent, they regain control.
"In a world which is globalising, integrating, I think it makes absolutely no sense.
"What would be the sense of having a regulation for 60 million people when the world is moving to zones who have regulations for 500 million or 600 million people? It makes no sense."
A no deal scenario in March 2019 would effectively annul all trade deals the UK has benefitted from as a member of the EU unless rolled back into British legislation.
Britain would then have to revert to WTO rules and apply a set list of tariffs - a tax on imports of goods – and quotas – limits on the number of goods - on other countries seeking to do business with the UK.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1090923/Brexit-news-Pascal-Lamy-WTO-UK-EU-withdrawal-no-deal-trade-May-Juncker-latest
EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories from the “heart of the Conservative party” are poised to join the new Brexit Party if there is a delay to Britain leaving the EU, it was claimed on Friday.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1091135/brexit-news-brexit-party-nigel-farage-tory-split-theresa-may
John McDonnell extended an olive branch to anti-Brexit Labour MPs who are considering resignation by promising that the leadership is “moving towards” support for a second referendum. i has learnt that Mr McDonnell has been holding face-to-face meetings with disgruntled MPs, while Jeremy Corbyn’s office has been ringing round potential defectors. The eight MPs who have defected to the new Independent Group have cited frustration over Jeremy Corbyn’s stance on Brexit as a key factor in their decision. Others will spend the weekend contemplating whether to follow suit.
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/john-mcdonnell-hints-at-support-for-second-vote-in-bid-to-stem-defections/
I think that Labour solidarity has only been maintained by not actually saying anything.
Their opposition to the Tories has been completely ineffective.
Their input to the Brexit debate has been nonexistent, until fairly recently.
They have suddenly decided to pressure the PM, to remove the prospect of no deal, and to support a Customs Union.
The Yvette Cooper amendment, stopping the no deal option, only failed to get through, because of the Labour MPs that defied the whip, and voted against, or abstained. There was no action taken against them despite it being a three lined whip vote.
The Labour suggestions on a Customs Union, Single Market access etc, belong in phase 2 negotiations, and fail to offer assistance in solving the immediate problem.
Also when Corbyn has been asked to articulate the difference between the PMs deal and being in a Customs Union, he seems unable to do so.
Corbyn has clearly been forced into offering support for another referendum, against his will.
Just extending Article 50, only postpones a no deal outcome.
To avoid no deal, will involve getting a deal through at some point. So the difficulty relates to the Withdrawal Agreement, rather than any future deal.
Unless the Withdrawal Agreement can be passed, there will be no future deal.
Article 50 seems odds on to be extended, assuming the EU agree to it.
If another referendum was to happen, an extension of sufficient time to accommodate it would be required. The EU have already agreed that they would extend Article 50, to allow for an election, or referendum
The latest Labour proposals seem to support a Norway plus a Customs Union deal. This can only return the debate to claims from leavers regarding a lack of democracy, and not being what they voted for.
This Norway type deal seems to have garnered cross party support. I think it is about the closest you could be to the EU, without being a member. My view is that to argue for this deal, is to admit that staying in is the best option. We would almost be staying in, but without a say in anything, and without any opportunity to assist in shaping the future of the EU.
If a Norway plus a Customs Union deal was done, we would surely alienate many leave voters. We would maintain Freedom of Movement, make annual financial contributions, and be unable to have an independent trade policy.
Although this may cause the least damage to our economy, the only thing that would be considered a worse outcome by Brexiteers, is another referendum.
I don't think you can attribute the lack of support for the smaller parties purely to their positions on Brexit, as many other factors will have come into play.
I think that the resignations have encouraged others to become more outspoken. If the result of this, is that the no deal option was removed next week, then it can only be seen as a good thing.
Whatever the outcome, it seems that it will only have been supported by a minority.
I don't feel disposed to voting for either of the two main parties. I realise that the chances of those that have resigned, forming a successful new party, are slim. Although if they were, there are plenty of people like me that would vote for them.
There are questions being asked about the ERG. This is a peculiar name, as they hate Europe, do very little Research, and aren't much of a Group.
I don't see any point in going through the catalogue of errors made by the Tories during the period since the referendum.
Theresa May has been a disastrous leader, and has proved to be useless throughout the negotiations.
The Meaningful Vote was supposed to be on the trade deal, not the Withdrawal Agreement. All negotiations were meant to be concluded by the end of next month. Liam Fox and the easiest trade deal in human history, and David Davis with, we will have all the same benefits, spring to mind.
I think that the whole thing has proved that the delivery of Brexit, as promised, was always going to be impossible.
The ERG are confident that the question the electorate answered was to completely cut ourselves off from Europe.
Remainers refuse to accept the result of an vote that has already taken place.
Are May and Corbyn fairly useless? Yes. But, in fairness, they appear to be 2 of the few people who are trying to broker some form of compromise, as opposed to staying in their own ideological hut and throwing rocks. You reserve your criticism for the only 2 people who could realistically resolve this issue in time.
You have provided lots of evidence about how we can not do this, that and the other deal in time. I agree. However, you conveniently fail to address the time issues for a 2nd referendum in my last post.
The main reason it is proving "impossible" as loads of politicians refusing to compromise. How very un-British.
The government has agreed contracts worth £104m for outside help on Brexit, according to analysis for the BBC.
Since the EU referendum, Whitehall has hired companies to do consultancy work to prepare for the UK's EU exit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47338534
Whose primary job is it to govern this country? The Government? Or the opposition?