These little diatribes about democracy are all very well and good . Can't help but wonder , if the result had gone the other way and leave wanted a 2nd ref , how many remoaners would be spouting that it's undemocratic and the nation has already had its say . We already know the answer to that .
It is likely that it will take a further 5 years for us to leave.
That means that it will be 8 years from the referendum,
During this time a number of things will happen that will affect the make up of the electorate.
Firstly, millions of remain voting youngsters that were too young to vote in the referendum will have come of age.
Secondly, millions of leave voting oldies will have died.
Thirdly, 3.5 million EU migrants that weren't allowed to vote in the referendum, will be qualified to vote.
So by the time we leave, the country will have an overwhelming majority in favour of remaining.
I think it very easy to argue that the referendum was far from ideal in many ways.
I also don't see any problems with people being allowed to change their minds.
Unless there a significant number that have, we will get the same result.
You won't have any problem with JRM changing his mind over Mays deal either then ?
I do really.
He has been scathing about it since last Summer.
He has voted against it twice,
It is exactly the same as it was on the other two occasions.
So what has changed.
The man has no principles.
Actually he said he would vote for it as long as the DUP did, and they aren't. So he still wont be voting for it, but I stand by all of the above.
What is best for the country does not figure in his decision making process.
It looks like its coming back tomorrow to be voted on for the third time.
Is that democratic, same deal three times so far?
At least you could argue that the referendum would at least be a different question.
Oh I get it , it's fine for people to change their minds , as long as it supports your viewpoint . Thanks for clarifying .
What reason could he have for changing his mind, when the deal is exactly the same, and he has voted against it twice?
Jacob Rees-Mogg has said he still backs the PM’s deal and is hoping the DUP “come over” to it. He also praised Mrs May’s behaviour yesterday and said she “deserves support”. Speaking to reporters in London, he said: “I’m in favour of the deal and I hope the DUP will come over to the deal but we’ll have to wait and see what they do.” Asked if he would be speaking to the DUP’s leader after she again ruled out backing the deal on Wednesday night, he said: “I have no plans to speak to Arlene Foster but I do have conversations with the DUP from time to time in the ordinary course of events.” He added: “The Prime Minister behaved very nobly yesterday and I think she does deserve support at this stage. “I don’t like her deal. I make no bones about this. “I don’t think the deal’s suddenly got better, simply that the alternative is now worse. It’s not having any Brexit at all and it’s letting down the 17.4 million people who voted to leave.”
Boris Johnson has branded Theresa May’s Brexit deal “dead” amid calls for the Prime Minister to honour her commitment to step down even if Parliament rejects her blueprint again. A ministerial source said Mrs May is determined to put the twice-rejected withdrawal agreement to a third vote, possibly as early as tomorrow, despite her DUP allies publicly opposing it. It emerged this morning that former foreign secretary Mr Johnson, who pivoted behind the Prime Minister’s deal last night only after she made clear she will resign from No 10 once it is through, has told friends: “It’s dead anyway.”
I think it very easy to argue that the referendum was far from ideal in many ways.
I also don't see any problems with people being allowed to change their minds.
Unless there a significant number that have, we will get the same result.
You won't have any problem with JRM changing his mind over Mays deal either then ?
I do really.
He has been scathing about it since last Summer.
He has voted against it twice,
It is exactly the same as it was on the other two occasions.
So what has changed.
The man has no principles.
Actually he said he would vote for it as long as the DUP did, and they aren't. So he still wont be voting for it, but I stand by all of the above.
What is best for the country does not figure in his decision making process.
It looks like its coming back tomorrow to be voted on for the third time.
Is that democratic, same deal three times so far?
At least you could argue that the referendum would at least be a different question.
Oh I get it , it's fine for people to change their minds , as long as it supports your viewpoint . Thanks for clarifying .
What reason could he have for changing his mind, when the deal is exactly the same, and he has voted against it twice?
Jacob Rees-Mogg has said he still backs the PM’s deal and is hoping the DUP “come over” to it. He also praised Mrs May’s behaviour yesterday and said she “deserves support”. Speaking to reporters in London, he said: “I’m in favour of the deal and I hope the DUP will come over to the deal but we’ll have to wait and see what they do.” Asked if he would be speaking to the DUP’s leader after she again ruled out backing the deal on Wednesday night, he said: “I have no plans to speak to Arlene Foster but I do have conversations with the DUP from time to time in the ordinary course of events.” He added: “The Prime Minister behaved very nobly yesterday and I think she does deserve support at this stage. “I don’t like her deal. I make no bones about this. “I don’t think the deal’s suddenly got better, simply that the alternative is now worse. It’s not having any Brexit at all and it’s letting down the 17.4 million people who voted to leave.”
That's nonsense because he has never backed it. He has voted against it twice. He said yesterday that he would back it as long as the DUP would. The DUP wont. So he still isn't.
The day of reckoning... the darkest hour for democracy... one last chance... The return to the Commons of the Brexit withdrawal agreement Theresa May negotiated with the EU inspires some dramatic front-page headlines on what the Daily Mail says was the day when the UK was supposed to become a "proud sovereign nation once more". Or, as the Daily Express puts it, the day Britain was to be "freed from the shackles of the EU". And several papers urge MPs to back the prime minister's deal and deliver the result of the 2016 referendum. "This is it. The final curtain. High noon. The last chance saloon," reads a thunderous, full-page Daily Mail editorial. MPs have one last opportunity to stop faith in democracy dying, it says: "Spurn this chance and we could move into a deep, dark place." For the Daily Express what was meant to be a day of "celebration and liberation" has become the "darkest hour for British politics" since King Charles I entered Parliament in 1642 and arrested four MPs. The message from the Sun's leader column is simple: "Don't betray UK."
'Blindfold Brexit' Meanwhile, the paper's front page urges the DUP and its leader Arlene Foster to "save Brexit". The headline reads: "Come on Arlene!" However, the Belfast Telegraph says that won't happen because of the Unionists' continuing unhappiness with the backstop - the "insurance policy" designed to avoid the return of customs posts on the Irish border. It leaves Mrs May needing opposition support if the agreement is to pass, an "extremely unlikely" scenario, the Guardian suggests, because of Labour's opposition to a "blindfold Brexit". According to the Times, Downing Street appears to know as much. "For two hours it looked like we were finally getting there", a No 10 source says ruefully, before the DUP made its announcement. Downing Street sources have warned the Daily Telegraph defeat could trigger an immediate general election to break the current deadlock. It's a prospect the paper is sanguine about. It is time to let the deal die, its editorial says: "The Tories cannot legislate by chicanery, manipulating convention or repackaging motions."
"Deadlocked Britain faces further year before Brexit" is the headline in the Times. It reports that EU leaders are preparing to force Britain either to accept a delay lasting as long as 12 months or "crash out without agreement." BuzzFeed News has seen a diplomatic note from an ambassadors' meeting which also says the UK will face that same "binary choice". The Guardian acknowledges the "unique symbolism" of Theresa May's deal seemingly facing its final defeat on what was meant to be Brexit day. Its significance is to demonstrate that the process once "jealously guarded as the exclusive property of the prime minister and Tory hardliners" has ended, and that parliament must now "look for another way". The Daily Mirror reflects bitterly on all that hasn't been done while politicians have spent "two years arguing about Brexit". That time could have been used to improve our schools, mend our NHS and tackle social care, it argues, adding: "We pay for the PM's delay."
Tens of thousands of EU workers may have to pay to keep jobs in UK
Tens of thousands of EU workers could be forced to pay hundreds of pounds to keep their jobs in the UK meat industry under a no-deal Brexit, a government minister has admitted. Environment secretary Michael Gove said the government would not cover the cost of licensing migrant workers in slaughterhouses, but the bill could cost British meat processors millions of pounds if they were forced to pick up the tab. Gove defended charging EU migrants £220 ($264) for new certificates to continue working in the UK if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, as their European documents may no longer be legally recognised. Asked by MPs on the environment and rural affairs committee today if such fees were “reasonable,” he said they were fair—before adding that “in many cases” employers would pay.
Brexit delay could last FIVE YEARS if May’s deal is not passed, MPs are warned as PM prepares to hold vote TODAY after Bercow caved in – but DUP threaten to scupper her chances of winning Mrs May will throw down the gauntlet to Labour and her own Eurosceptic MPs, amid fears that she risks defeat If the Prime Minister does lose, allies fear she could be forced to call a General Election as early as next week Mrs May made move after deciding to take step of splitting deal in the hope of getting it through Commons MPs will vote only on the 'divorce' element and not political declaration on future relationship with the EU
Tory MPs branded 'sickening' as they launch leadership bids amid Brexit crisis The race to replace Theresa May has kicked off in full force with Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Sajid Javid, Amber Rudd and more jostling for position
Tory MPs have been branded “sickening” as shameless ministers launched leadership bids as the country remains in crisis over Brexit . The race to replace Theresa May as Prime Minister kicked off in full force tonight, as a string of Tory MPs began jostling for position.
Brexit: Police brace for disorder after far-right protesters threaten to riot at London rallies ‘We’ll make Paris riots look like a f***ing tea party’
Police are bracing for potential unrest at protests by pro-Brexit groups following threats of riots by far-right extremists. Scotland Yard said it was ready to “share resource across the country” if disorder breaks out at numerous planned demonstrations in London and across the UK on Friday.
Ukip, Tommy Robinson, the UK “yellow vests”, Democratic Football Lads Alliance and Leave Means Leave campaign are holding rallies in the capital, on the day Britain was due to leave the EU.
Comments
That means that it will be 8 years from the referendum,
During this time a number of things will happen that will affect the make up of the electorate.
Firstly, millions of remain voting youngsters that were too young to vote in the referendum will have come of age.
Secondly, millions of leave voting oldies will have died.
Thirdly, 3.5 million EU migrants that weren't allowed to vote in the referendum, will be qualified to vote.
So by the time we leave, the country will have an overwhelming majority in favour of remaining.
Sounds like a good plan.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/jacob-reesmogg-hopes-dup-will-come-around-to-mays-deal-37960023.html
Boris Johnson has branded Theresa May’s Brexit deal “dead” amid calls for the Prime Minister to honour her commitment to step down even if Parliament rejects her blueprint again.
A ministerial source said Mrs May is determined to put the twice-rejected withdrawal agreement to a third vote, possibly as early as tomorrow, despite her DUP allies publicly opposing it.
It emerged this morning that former foreign secretary Mr Johnson, who pivoted behind the Prime Minister’s deal last night only after she made clear she will resign from No 10 once it is through, has told friends: “It’s dead anyway.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-is-dead/ar-BBVkOu7?ocid=spartandhp
He has voted against it twice.
He said yesterday that he would back it as long as the DUP would.
The DUP wont.
So he still isn't.
The day of reckoning... the darkest hour for democracy... one last chance...
The return to the Commons of the Brexit withdrawal agreement Theresa May negotiated with the EU inspires some dramatic front-page headlines on what the Daily Mail says was the day when the UK was supposed to become a "proud sovereign nation once more".
Or, as the Daily Express puts it, the day Britain was to be "freed from the shackles of the EU".
And several papers urge MPs to back the prime minister's deal and deliver the result of the 2016 referendum.
"This is it. The final curtain. High noon. The last chance saloon," reads a thunderous, full-page Daily Mail editorial.
MPs have one last opportunity to stop faith in democracy dying, it says: "Spurn this chance and we could move into a deep, dark place."
For the Daily Express what was meant to be a day of "celebration and liberation" has become the "darkest hour for British politics" since King Charles I entered Parliament in 1642 and arrested four MPs.
The message from the Sun's leader column is simple: "Don't betray UK."
'Blindfold Brexit'
Meanwhile, the paper's front page urges the DUP and its leader Arlene Foster to "save Brexit". The headline reads: "Come on Arlene!"
However, the Belfast Telegraph says that won't happen because of the Unionists' continuing unhappiness with the backstop - the "insurance policy" designed to avoid the return of customs posts on the Irish border.
It leaves Mrs May needing opposition support if the agreement is to pass, an "extremely unlikely" scenario, the Guardian suggests, because of Labour's opposition to a "blindfold Brexit".
According to the Times, Downing Street appears to know as much.
"For two hours it looked like we were finally getting there", a No 10 source says ruefully, before the DUP made its announcement.
Downing Street sources have warned the Daily Telegraph defeat could trigger an immediate general election to break the current deadlock.
It's a prospect the paper is sanguine about. It is time to let the deal die, its editorial says: "The Tories cannot legislate by chicanery, manipulating convention or repackaging motions."
"Deadlocked Britain faces further year before Brexit" is the headline in the Times.
It reports that EU leaders are preparing to force Britain either to accept a delay lasting as long as 12 months or "crash out without agreement."
BuzzFeed News has seen a diplomatic note from an ambassadors' meeting which also says the UK will face that same "binary choice".
The Guardian acknowledges the "unique symbolism" of Theresa May's deal seemingly facing its final defeat on what was meant to be Brexit day.
Its significance is to demonstrate that the process once "jealously guarded as the exclusive property of the prime minister and Tory hardliners" has ended, and that parliament must now "look for another way".
The Daily Mirror reflects bitterly on all that hasn't been done while politicians have spent "two years arguing about Brexit".
That time could have been used to improve our schools, mend our NHS and tackle social care, it argues, adding: "We pay for the PM's delay."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47739143
Tens of thousands of EU workers could be forced to pay hundreds of pounds to keep their jobs in the UK meat industry under a no-deal Brexit, a government minister has admitted.
Environment secretary Michael Gove said the government would not cover the cost of licensing migrant workers in slaughterhouses, but the bill could cost British meat processors millions of pounds if they were forced to pick up the tab.
Gove defended charging EU migrants £220 ($264) for new certificates to continue working in the UK if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, as their European documents may no longer be legally recognised.
Asked by MPs on the environment and rural affairs committee today if such fees were “reasonable,” he said they were fair—before adding that “in many cases” employers would pay.
https://uk.yahoo.com/finance/news/tens-thousands-eu-workers-may-pay-keep-jobs-uk-060029218.html
Mrs May will throw down the gauntlet to Labour and her own Eurosceptic MPs, amid fears that she risks defeat
If the Prime Minister does lose, allies fear she could be forced to call a General Election as early as next week
Mrs May made move after deciding to take step of splitting deal in the hope of getting it through Commons
MPs will vote only on the 'divorce' element and not political declaration on future relationship with the EU
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6862761/Brexit-delay-FIVE-YEARS-Mays-deal-not-passed.html
The race to replace Theresa May has kicked off in full force with Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Sajid Javid, Amber Rudd and more jostling for position
Tory MPs have been branded “sickening” as shameless ministers launched leadership bids as the country remains in crisis over Brexit .
The race to replace Theresa May as Prime Minister kicked off in full force tonight, as a string of Tory MPs began jostling for position.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-branded-sickening-launch-14200598
‘We’ll make Paris riots look like a f***ing tea party’
Police are bracing for potential unrest at protests by pro-Brexit groups following threats of riots by far-right extremists.
Scotland Yard said it was ready to “share resource across the country” if disorder breaks out at numerous planned demonstrations in London and across the UK on Friday.
Ukip, Tommy Robinson, the UK “yellow vests”, Democratic Football Lads Alliance and Leave Means Leave campaign are holding rallies in the capital, on the day Britain was due to leave the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/police-brexit-riot-violence-far-right-tommy-robinson-leave-ukip-eu-met-scotland-yard-a8844181.html