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  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited April 2019
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377
    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Farmers may also be concerned about what may happen beyond 2022.
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Farmers may also be concerned about what may happen beyond 2022.
    Now you are just getting desperate ...what do you think will happen ?..the government will leave them all out to dry ? ...laughable!
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Farmers may also be concerned about what may happen beyond 2022.
    Now you are just getting desperate ...what do you think will happen ?..the government will leave them all out to dry ? ...laughable!
    I am sure they will be totally happy with your assurance that they are not.
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Farmers may also be concerned about what may happen beyond 2022.
    Now you are just getting desperate ...what do you think will happen ?..the government will leave them all out to dry ? ...laughable!
    I am sure they will be totally happy with your assurance that they are not.
    All good then ...lets move onto the next Brexit scaremongering remain nonsense :s
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited April 2019
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .
  • Options
    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,460
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Yes you do haysie because the EU wont allow reform unless it benefits themselves.

    Ok nuff said.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .


    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 33,377

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Yes you do haysie because the EU wont allow reform unless it benefits themselves.

    Ok nuff said.
    I am not sure what this claim actually means, or your basis for making the claim.
    The EU is made up of 28 separate countries, so who is themselves?
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited April 2019
    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .


    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making
    All very interesting and well researched . Now I look forward to a new chapter , where we don't have to vote for or against policy and fight against the rest of the member nations , but forge our own policies ....you know like we used to , when the Great was still in Great Britain . Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Brexit party ....embrace change , it can be liberating !
    :)
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354
    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Ohno just realised I've been Adrian Durham'ed again....won't happen again.. apologies non gender specific peeps
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Nope it was some peoples view .
    Let us know in 3 years time how your farmer mate is getting on .
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354

    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Nope it was some peoples view .
    Let us know in 3 years time how your farmer mate is getting on .
    It wasn't some people's view-It was the PM's position...he'll be broke and no longer a farmer...he's already regretting his leave vote and hopes for a second chance NOEW he knows certain facts about the deal
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    madprof said:

    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Nope it was some peoples view .
    Let us know in 3 years time how your farmer mate is getting on .
    It wasn't some people's view-It was the PM's position...he'll be broke and no longer a farmer...he's already regretting his leave vote and hopes for a second chance NOEW he knows certain facts about the deal
    Sorry but no sympathy for this fictional farmer friend of yours , who voted leave because of EU bureaucracy ;)
    Second chance boat has already sailed . Wish him well and his sheep from me .
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354

    madprof said:

    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Nope it was some peoples view .
    Let us know in 3 years time how your farmer mate is getting on .
    It wasn't some people's view-It was the PM's position...he'll be broke and no longer a farmer...he's already regretting his leave vote and hopes for a second chance NOEW he knows certain facts about the deal
    Sorry but no sympathy for this fictional farmer friend of yours , who voted leave because of EU bureaucracy ;)
    Second chance boat has already sailed . Wish him well and his sheep from me .
    For his sake..I really wish he was fictional- EU subsidy £30k per year, UK govt £?, regardless of political intentions to support transition funding...bottom line is with limited access to one of his key market for lamb- Europe, mainly France, impending import tax for a commodity that is expensive anyway and no guaranteed assurances, now in writing, in his hand as a firm commitment....weasel words from a desperate govt

    If I wanted to sway the discussions with a fictional overview, that's easy done but can't be bothered...I note you chose not to answer my reply re: 'some people's view'- a pretty powerful some person's view below

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhol2_3ilmM

  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793
    edited April 2019
    madprof said:

    madprof said:

    madprof said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    Just because a govt says they will do something..doesn't mean it will happen...I remember someone once saying " No deal is better than a bad deal.." wasn't that the government view at the time... My real life eg was to illustrate what farmers are being told NOW, not just govt rhetoric/policy on the hoof/saying what they want farmers to hear
    Nope it was some peoples view .
    Let us know in 3 years time how your farmer mate is getting on .
    It wasn't some people's view-It was the PM's position...he'll be broke and no longer a farmer...he's already regretting his leave vote and hopes for a second chance NOEW he knows certain facts about the deal
    Sorry but no sympathy for this fictional farmer friend of yours , who voted leave because of EU bureaucracy ;)
    Second chance boat has already sailed . Wish him well and his sheep from me .
    For his sake..I really wish he was fictional- EU subsidy £30k per year, UK govt £?, regardless of political intentions to support transition funding...bottom line is with limited access to one of his key market for lamb- Europe, mainly France, impending import tax for a commodity that is expensive anyway and no guaranteed assurances, now in writing, in his hand as a firm commitment....weasel words from a desperate govt

    If I wanted to sway the discussions with a fictional overview, that's easy done but can't be bothered...I note you chose not to answer my reply re: 'some people's view'- a pretty powerful some person's view below

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhol2_3ilmM

    Breaking news : The prime minister doesn't speak for everyone !

    Someones obviously not been taking his meds today , as his usual stupidity is shining through .
  • Options
    madprofmadprof Member Posts: 3,354

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:

    HAYSIE said:



    The UK government plans to introduce a seven-year transition period for farmers’ funding from 2021, during which direct payments from the state will be reduced and tied more closely to delivering environmental and other “public” goods.

    The Environmental Land Management scheme will replace EU basic farm payments, which are based on the amount of land farmed, under which farmers who provide the greatest environmental benefit will receive the largest amount of public money.

    Details of the scheme, to be unveiled in Wednesday’s Agriculture Bill, will be given in a policy document due later this week. The scheme will be developed and tested by 2025, when it is expected to be fully implemented.

    Michael Gove, the environment secretary, said Brexit provided an opportunity to no longer be tied to “burdensome and outdated” rules, and would allow the UK government to reward farmers who protected the environment.

    The government had already guaranteed that it would replace EU subsidies to farmers until the end of this parliament, which falls due in 2022. Direct and indirect subsidies are worth £3bn a year.

    Under the new scheme, farm payments would be based, among other measures, on improving air or water quality, habitats for wildlife, preventing climate change or protecting historic features. It would value these according to the “natural capital” approach pioneered by Dieter Helm, who chairs the Natural Capital Committee, an independent advisory body. It seeks to apply a financial value to non-financial outcomes such as clean air and the protection of wildlife habitats.

    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .

    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.
    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .
    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.
    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )
    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.
    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .


    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making
    All very interesting and well researched . Now I look forward to a new chapter , where we don't have to vote for or against policy and fight against the rest of the member nations , but forge our own policies ....you know like we used to , when the Great was still in Great Britain . Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Brexit party ....embrace change , it can be liberating !
    :)
    Great..in Great Britain...sound like some Victorian, Empirical standpoint where we enslaved the world becoming great..

    Now the leave campaign don't 'like' the fact that our colonial approach has come full circle and our Commonwealth citizens and European neighbours and allies are not welcomed

    For the record, most of my family(Northerners) are staunch labour supporters and in favour of a work union and voted leave...when I ask them to consider the European union as not much different to being in their union: collective strength/bargaining power/protection etc etc... I am yet to get one of them to have an answer.. oh yes they want Britain to be GREAT again..they want to go back to the good old days...what decade in recent times was good-ok I'll give you the 60's but..
    20's depression
    30's pre war tensions
    40's war and rationing
    50's continued rationing and unemployment
    70's riots, food and electricity shortages
    80's Union strikes
    90's economic depression

    Great
  • Options
    dobiesdrawdobiesdraw Member Posts: 2,793


    Paul McNamee of Greener UK, an environmental coalition, said “putting public benefits at the heart of a new agriculture system is a huge step in the right direction, offering the UK a chance to restore the natural environment while producing food more sustainably.




    Mr Gove said the current EU Common Agricultural Policy was ineffective and skewed towards the largest landowners. Under the scheme 10 per cent of the recipients receive almost half the money while the 20 per cent of farmers with the smallest holdings receive only 2 per cent of the money.

    Defra said direct payments would be made on the same basis in 2019 and 2020 as now, but that from 2021 they would be gradually phased out. It said that, to help new entrants into the sector, payments from 2021 to 2027 would be “delinked” from the requirement to farm the land.

    “These payments . . . can be used by farmers to invest in their business, diversify their activities or else retire from farming and give way for new people to enter,” Defra said.


    Bolded parts addressing anecdotal nonsense .



    You wonder why successive Governments would not have addressed this.

    Hands tied I would suggest . The present EU subsidy system is paid on a per acre basis .

    The most influential members have always been the UK, France and Germany. We have been members for around 45 years. I know little about farming or the applicable subsidies. We should not gain any satisfaction from pointing out the deficiencies of a system that we have put up with for many years.

    Who's gaining satisfaction ?
    It's patently clear that the EU system applicable to allocating farming subsidies is and has been very skewed .
    And when we are clear of it , there will be a chance to redress the balance and reward farmers who act in an environmentally conscious way ( another Brexit positive ! :D )

    My point is that we have been influential members for 45 years, and don't have to leave in order to reform something that is wrong.


    Where the **** do you get the word " influential" from ? :D
    Do you not think , if we could have got it reformed , we would have done so ?
    The more I hear/read , the more I think how much of a refreshing deep clean Brexit will be for us .



    These network pictures clearly show the centrality of the UK in EU negotiations. Germany and France are also close to the centre, but UK officials appear to be the best connected of all the member states’ officials.
    In other words, when it comes to negotiations behind the scenes, before votes take place and before laws are adopted, the data suggest that the UK government is right at the heart of EU policy-making, and certainly at the top table, alongside Germany and France. The data also suggest that the Eurozone crisis has not had any noticeable effect on the centrality of the UK in EU bargaining.

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/11/16/uk-influence-in-europe-series-is-the-uk-at-the-top-table-in-eu-negotiations/


    Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.
    In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/

    One of the most important issues raised during the current Brexit debate is whether the UK is isolated in EU policy-making and, consequently, whether UK can properly influence legislation coming from Brussels. Drawing on a dataset of recorded votes in the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union, the latest VoteWatch Europe’s report provides an answer to those questions.
    The analysis looked at the role played by the UK’s Government and its MEPs in shaping the EU policy over the past 12 years. How often was the UK on the winning side in the EU Council and European Parliament?
    According to our data on voting behaviour in the EU Council, the UK is the most outvoted Member State. However, it has supported the great majority of the EU laws adopted over the last 12 years (more than 97%).

    https://esharp.eu/debates/the-uk-and-europe/analysing-the-uks-influence-in-eu-policy-making

    All very interesting and well researched . Now I look forward to a new chapter , where we don't have to vote for or against policy and fight against the rest of the member nations , but forge our own policies ....you know like we used to , when the Great was still in Great Britain . Here ends the party political broadcast on behalf of the Brexit party ....embrace change , it can be liberating !
    :)

    Great..in Great Britain...sound like some Victorian, Empirical standpoint where we enslaved the world becoming great..

    Now the leave campaign don't 'like' the fact that our colonial approach has come full circle and our Commonwealth citizens and European neighbours and allies are not welcomed

    For the record, most of my family(Northerners) are staunch labour supporters and in favour of a work union and voted leave...when I ask them to consider the European union as not much different to being in their union: collective strength/bargaining power/protection etc etc... I am yet to get one of them to have an answer.. oh yes they want Britain to be GREAT again..they want to go back to the good old days...what decade in recent times was good-ok I'll give you the 60's but..
    20's depression
    30's pre war tensions
    40's war and rationing
    50's continued rationing and unemployment
    70's riots, food and electricity shortages
    80's Union strikes
    90's economic depression

    Great

    The " Great " was tongue in cheek ...didn't expect you to get it , and as usual am not disappointed !
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